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 Forgiving Sue Klebold

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bradt93
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PostSubject: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:15 am

If one of your children were killed by her son, could any  of you forgive her? It would be hard, but I would. Forgiveness is good for the soul and yourself.


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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:53 am

Why only Sue?

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:56 am

I have no idea. I can't even imagine what that pain is like.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: good question, what about Mr.Klebold and Eric's parents?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: I agree. Not being a parent myself, I have no idea what the pain is like.

The only thing I can think of is that Eric and Dylan emphasized their parents did not know anything and they were not responsible for anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:55 pm

If any forgiving is done it's probably for my sake to move on and not toward the parent nor with any implication I've accepted their son taking my baby away from me.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:32 pm

shades wrote:
If any forgiving is done it's probably for my sake to move on and not toward the parent nor with any implication I've accepted their son taking my baby away from me.
I agree that if I would forgive the parents, it is only to let go of the bitterness and hatred toward them that was weighing me down and try to move pass this and get on with my life. I could never forget the tremendous pain their child caused, but would hope to move pass this.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:10 pm

bradt93 wrote:
If one of your children were killed by her son, could any  of you forgive her? It would be hard, but I would.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:54 pm

I've never lost a child, so I can't speak to that. However, I have had to forgive a certain low life scumbag, even though he neither asked for forvieness and probably didn't care. The reason? It affected me deeply and had the potential to change who I was a s a person. I forgave this piece of shit for ME, otherwise I would carry it the rest of my days. It did not affect him whatsoever and I doubt he would even care knowing how much I hated him. That was the singular most important thing I did for myself.

He has no power over me. I feel nothing but disgust towards this person, but I refuse to let that loser have ANY control over me, my wellbeing or my emotions.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:11 pm

Well, it wasn't Sue Klebold's fault her son did what he did, why would they even have to forgive her in the first place? nothing to forgive for. It wasn't her fault, it was her sons.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:10 pm

bradt93 wrote:
Well, it wasn't Sue Klebold's fault her son did what he did, why would they even have to forgive her in the first place? nothing to forgive for. It wasn't her fault, it was her sons.

Let me clarify here. I don't think anyone expects the Harrises and Klebolds to be forgiven. If the victims and families have been able to do so, I admire their strength. I simply used an experience in my life to give an example; that I refused to give this person the power over me. I said it before on a topic here, but I'll say it again. Hate is one of the most intoxicating emotions there is. It can, and often will, take over your life.

Im not saying anyone owes anyone forgiveness. All I'm saying is human emotion and anger are often illogical. If you dwell on these things, they take over your life. It's most often the parent(s) of the killer that gets blamed, however illogical it is to us. All I'm saying is that you can do yourself a great a favor by choosing to forgive someone who had no control over what transpired and redirect the anger where it should be.

Hell, we don't even know for sure that victims' and their families blame the Klebolds. I know I wouldn't hold them responsible for their nearly adult sons' actions,

I'm not being argumentative, so please don't take it that way.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:41 pm

I don't blame the Klebold's or the Harris's. It could happen to anyone.

I have my reasons to hate Eric but I don't. I forgave him a long time ago. Dylan, too. I really wish I could talk to her and let her know lots of us still think about her and want what's best for her. She's hurting and losing Tom had to make it worse. I don't forgive her because she didn't cause this. The boys did, period.

I hope she's okay
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:44 am

I think it's rational to forgive the parents. The parents did not commit murder. Eric and Dylan were basically adults. We've had many other mass shootings in America since Columbine and we no longer scapegoat the parents. That seems to be one of the many lessons the country learned from this.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:15 pm

Exactly, It's also rational to remember they were and are grieving too for the lost of their sons. In her interview, she acknowledged what Dylan did was evil, but she said she will always love him.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:36 pm

Why shouldn't we forgive them? They didn't do anything to help further the boy's in their plan.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:33 am

People pour all of the blame on the parents for not being aware of what led to the massacre. I mean honestly, would any of you expect your son to go to school with shotguns, rifles, and bombs? Everyone changes in high school. Now granted in today's world things could be different in terms of how you watch over your kids, but back then you didn't have gun violence in teenagers and colleges like you do now. Nowadays it's like "oh look..another shooting *eyes roll*". Back in 1999, this was unfathomable.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:38 am

EGSandrew wrote:
People pour all of the blame on the parents for not being aware of what led to the massacre. I mean honestly, would any of you expect your son to go to school with shotguns, rifles, and bombs? Everyone changes in high school. Now granted in today's world things could be different in terms of how you watch over your kids, but back then you didn't have gun violence in teenagers and colleges like you do now. Nowadays it's like "oh look..another shooting *eyes roll*". Back in 1999, this was unfathomable.
This.
Imagine trying to comprehend that your baby, someone who you have loved and cared for, was planning to commit an unspeakable atrocity. It could drive you insane.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:15 pm

At least Sue grieved for her son, did Wayne grieve for Eric? No he called his own son a "psycho"
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:43 am

bradt93 wrote:
At least Sue grieved for her son, did Wayne grieve for Eric? No he called his own son a "psycho"
Wayne seems like a baby boomer asshole.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:34 pm

You have no idea how Wayne grieved for Eric. Just because he labeled him a psycho doesn't mean he didn't love him. Hell, Sue prayed for Dylan to kill himself so he wouldn't hurt anyone else, that doesn't mean she didn't love her child. I'm sure their emotions were all over the place.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:06 pm

Justjenna wrote:
You have no idea how Wayne grieved for Eric. Just because he labeled him a psycho doesn't mean he didn't love him. Hell, Sue prayed for Dylan to kill himself so he wouldn't hurt anyone else, that doesn't mean she didn't love her child. I'm sure their emotions were all over the place.
Yeah, that's debatable. He may see him as a psychopath but he's your son. The biggest question of all though is would any of the Harris' "forgive" Eric. A big question I've always wondered is if the Harris' and Klebolds' saw their sons in the afterlife, would they forgive them or what would be said? I'd kill for that info decades from now, but we'll neverrrr know that one.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:56 am



Can someone please show me where Wayne called Eric a psycho? I was not aware he had ever said that somewhere it would get out publicly.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:36 am


From the book 'Walking in Daniel's Shoes' when the Mauser's meet Harrises. During the meeting, Tom Mauser noted: They seemed to rather readily accept that perhaps Eric was a psychopath, but indicated they didn’t know how he became one.


Maybe that is the part people are referring to.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:56 am

sororityalpha wrote:

From the book 'Walking in Daniel's Shoes' when the Mauser's meet Harrises. During the meeting, Tom Mauser noted: They seemed to rather readily accept that perhaps Eric was a psychopath, but indicated they didn’t know how he became one.


Maybe that is the part people are referring  to.

Yes I think that is what people are going off of. Wayne has never called Eric a psycho outright at all. And the blurb in Daniel's shoes is just that a blurb. Since none of us were at the interaction between the families we will never know what exactly was said. And until the Harrises step out and say "yea he was a psycho" I just won't believe it.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:22 am

I can't imagine being in their shoes in that situation. Really, think about it. Even if they had concerns or suspicions of something nefarious Eric was doing, no one, especially in 1999, would've dreamed that would happen. So, imagine that's your child, responsible for worldwide 24/7 coverage, who kills not just himself, but decided to take some random people with them. Now imagine the unenviable grief, but you can't show it to the world. Now, imagine sitting across from someone you don't know, but your lives are forever intertwined by a tragedy that your child is responsible for. Unenviable position. What would do you say? You can't defend your child. Awful.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:42 pm

I don't forgive the Klebold's and Harris' because there is nothing to forgive them for. I can't and will never understand how the parents were blamed or did something requiring forgiveness. In 1999 I was 15 and I was master level 1000 at hiding things I didn't want my mom to find. Parents (or at least the ones of mine or anyone I knew) did not search your room unless there was a reason. There are an insane amount of school shootings now, in a time where parents ransack their teen-aged children's rooms yet the parents are not blamed or sued. I'm even having trouble finding parents that were blamed prior to the Columbine school shooting, if you know any I am all ears.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:46 pm

I think Kip Kinkel's parents might have taken some heat. They might have taken even more after Columbine. Kip had easy access to guns, had been in serious trouble with the law before, and his relationship with his father was anything but honky dory. So in his case there were warning signs and maybe some sub-par parenting.

His story ties into Columbine because it was the biggest in a "growing recent phenomenon." A year before Columbine, he shot and killed parents in his house and then drove to his high school, walked into the cafeteria and shot 27 students, killing two before he was brought down by classmates. He was definitely one of the school shooters that E&D made fun of and wanted to outdo.

Still, Columbine was the straw that broke the camel's back. All of the school shootings that took place in the previous year or two probably contributed to the national outrage. America was already quickly losing patience.

(Interesting sidenote: Kip was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. When he heard about Columbine in his jail cell he had major episodes because he believed he was responsible. I think he was, at least in some small way. It could be argued that E&D officially began the copycat phenomenon, but they were measuring themselves against Kinkel.)
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:00 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I definitely agree they would have has some blame put on the. I meant parents that were alive to get blamed though. I don't believe E&D were measuring themselves against Kinkel since they wrote him and the other recent school shooters, as kids who wanted attention. Plus the Thurston high shooting happened on May 11th 1998, by then E&D had already started planning the Columbine "bombing" that against their desire, ended up being a shooting. I can definitely see how Kinkel felt responsible though, especially in his mental state.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:28 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I'd be careful giving them so much benefit of the doubt. I think they were measuring themselves against Kinkel to some degree. They mention the other school shooters in the basement tapes and Kinkel's was the "biggest." I also think they wanted attention/legacy. You don't think so?

It's true that they had already started planning before Kinkel's shooting, but one can imagine seeing him on the news would urge them to double down and expand on their plans. Kinkel was probably the one that proved 100% to them that they could be famous. He was all over the news. Even I knew who Kip Kinkel was and what he looked like even though I was a seventh grader on the opposite side of the country. He was talked about my middle school. I'm sure he was brought up by the teachers in Columbine.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:24 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I 100% agree that E&D wanted fame, they wanted to be remembered forever, start a revolution and all that for sure. Where I don't agree is that Kinkel influenced them, to them the previous shooters were just that, shooters. I think hey would be disgusted that Columbine is known as the worse "school shooting" because they were going for something to the extent of the Oklahoma bombing and things on that scale, not a shooting. Of course we know their bombs failed and they had to go to plan B when that happened.

I'm sure Kinkel was all over the news in the US, I don't remember seeing him in the news in Canada, then again my memory is terrible lol. Columbine was unforgettable though, it shook my school then turned it into more hell than it already was. Even if these shooters were plastered all over the TV, I still think that E&D were going for the fame that Timothy McVeigh got, in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:41 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree to an extent, but the fact that they mention Kinkel in the basement tapes is telling. There's a reason why Tom Brady will never mention a college quarterback: he truly doesn't believe they are at his level, not even subconsciously (maybe not the perfect analogy but you get the point).

I've thought a lot about what a massive hit it must have been to Eric's ego when the bombs failed. Now that we are talking about Kinkel, I wonder if it crossed his mind during "the quiet period" that he'd more likely be compared to Kinkel than McVeigh.
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