What if Eric and Dylan were jocks?

Yeah well they played sports for years.

Columbine happened for more reasons than just the jocks.

sororityalpha wrote:

Yeah well they played sports for years.

Columbine happened for more reasons than just the jocks.

I totally agree with you. Columbine is more then just jocks bullying kids. I was just saying that they were not the right type of jocks. They didn't play on any Columbine team.

Also, Brooks brought up a point in Zero Hour that jocks in CHS weren't necessarily JUST athletes. It was more of a class/clique of kids who were treated differently by peers/teachers/etc.

They werent necessarily jocks, but they were into sports from what I gather.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],most of what Ive read, suggests that they were bright. Didnt Dylan enroll into the CHIPS programme?

Norwegian wrote:

They werent necessarily jocks, but they were into sports from what I gather.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],most of what Ive read, suggests that they were bright. Didnt Dylan enroll into the CHIPS programme?

Eric played soccer in his freshmen year or something. Dylan played baseball as a kid. Dylan was made fun of in particular for not being athletic, being uncoordinated plus being lanky. Eric was made fun of for not being athletic, being scrawny and having a chest deformity.

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

They werent necessarily jocks, but they were into sports from what I gather.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],most of what Ive read, suggests that they were bright. Didnt Dylan enroll into the CHIPS programme?

Eric played soccer in his freshmen year or something. Dylan played baseball as a kid. Dylan was made fun of in particular for not being athletic, being uncoordinated plus being lanky. Eric was made fun of for not being athletic, being scrawny and having a chest deformity.

Some people claim to have been making fun of them over sports, or withness them being made fun of but I think many of the 11k statements are murky. Someone said that they had called Dylan 'The stretch', but IDK wether that was all in good fun or in order to be mean

Didn't Eric watch his brother play football? I remember hearing that somewhere

lognifiiskurk wrote:

Didn't Eric watch his brother play football? I remember hearing that somewhere

It's in Brooks Brown's book.

Norwegian wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

They werent necessarily jocks, but they were into sports from what I gather.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],most of what Ive read, suggests that they were bright. Didnt Dylan enroll into the CHIPS programme?

Eric played soccer in his freshmen year or something. Dylan played baseball as a kid. Dylan was made fun of in particular for not being athletic, being uncoordinated plus being lanky. Eric was made fun of for not being athletic, being scrawny and having a chest deformity.

Some people claim to have been making fun of them over sports, or withness them being made fun of but I think many of the 11k statements are murky. Someone said that they had called Dylan 'The stretch', but IDK wether that was all in good fun or in order to be mean

Considering how tall and gangly Dylan was I doubt it was in "good fun". The athletes at the school were giving him a hard time. Eric was terrified of taking his shirt off in front of others.

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

They werent necessarily jocks, but they were into sports from what I gather.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],most of what Ive read, suggests that they were bright. Didnt Dylan enroll into the CHIPS programme?

Eric played soccer in his freshmen year or something. Dylan played baseball as a kid. Dylan was made fun of in particular for not being athletic, being uncoordinated plus being lanky. Eric was made fun of for not being athletic, being scrawny and having a chest deformity.

Some people claim to have been making fun of them over sports, or withness them being made fun of but I think many of the 11k statements are murky. Someone said that they had called Dylan 'The stretch', but IDK wether that was all in good fun or in order to be mean

Considering how tall and gangly Dylan was I doubt it was in "good fun". The athletes at the school were giving him a hard time. Eric was terrified of taking his shirt off in front of others.

Its hard to say, honestly,because Dylan used to Joke around with hes friends a lot. I used to be made fun of as a kid, sometimes, because Ive always been different from other people. But, of course, with friends we always used to have internal jokes w each other. Keep in mind that some sources suggests that Eric was the one being picked on, and not Dylan.

Norwegian wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

They werent necessarily jocks, but they were into sports from what I gather.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],most of what Ive read, suggests that they were bright. Didnt Dylan enroll into the CHIPS programme?

Eric played soccer in his freshmen year or something. Dylan played baseball as a kid. Dylan was made fun of in particular for not being athletic, being uncoordinated plus being lanky. Eric was made fun of for not being athletic, being scrawny and having a chest deformity.

Some people claim to have been making fun of them over sports, or withness them being made fun of but I think many of the 11k statements are murky. Someone said that they had called Dylan 'The stretch', but IDK wether that was all in good fun or in order to be mean

Considering how tall and gangly Dylan was I doubt it was in "good fun". The athletes at the school were giving him a hard time. Eric was terrified of taking his shirt off in front of others.

Its hard to say, honestly,because Dylan used to Joke around with hes friends a lot. I used to be made fun of as a kid, sometimes, because Ive always been different from other people. But, of course, with friends we always used to have internal jokes w each other. Keep in mind that some sources suggests that Eric was the one being picked on, and not Dylan.

If that was the case why did Dylan "hate the jocks" and write about getting revenge against them in his journal? In no world was Dylan friends with the athletes at Columbine.

It's getting to the point your points could be considered trolling now.

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

They werent necessarily jocks, but they were into sports from what I gather.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],most of what Ive read, suggests that they were bright. Didnt Dylan enroll into the CHIPS programme?

Eric played soccer in his freshmen year or something. Dylan played baseball as a kid. Dylan was made fun of in particular for not being athletic, being uncoordinated plus being lanky. Eric was made fun of for not being athletic, being scrawny and having a chest deformity.

Some people claim to have been making fun of them over sports, or withness them being made fun of but I think many of the 11k statements are murky. Someone said that they had called Dylan 'The stretch', but IDK wether that was all in good fun or in order to be mean

Considering how tall and gangly Dylan was I doubt it was in "good fun". The athletes at the school were giving him a hard time. Eric was terrified of taking his shirt off in front of others.

Its hard to say, honestly,because Dylan used to Joke around with hes friends a lot. I used to be made fun of as a kid, sometimes, because Ive always been different from other people. But, of course, with friends we always used to have internal jokes w each other. Keep in mind that some sources suggests that Eric was the one being picked on, and not Dylan.

If that was the case why did Dylan "hate the jocks" and write about getting revenge against them in his journal? In no world was Dylan friends with the athletes at Columbine.

It's getting to the point your points could be considered trolling now.

There Could be a lot of different reasons for why Dylan hated jocks, and harassment was not the only reason. For instance, he expresses jealousy towards jocks because they had easy access to girlfriends. I think its important to not take everything from the 11k at face value. What the 11k seems to suggest, from what I could find, is that someone- we dont know who- called Dylan a 'stretch'. This all seems very murky to me.


This isnt trolling, BTW, and I litary thing you need to look up the word trolling.

The Columbine High School shooting wouldn't have happened. The End!

In all seriousness though, even though they were homicidal towards almost everyone, part of that was driven resentment towards people they saw as "better" than them. Jocks being among those. Envy is usually a very large factor in mass shootings.

Carnifex879 wrote:

The Columbine High School shooting wouldn't have happened. The End!

In all seriousness though, even though they were homicidal towards almost everyone, part of that was driven resentment towards people they saw as "better" than them. Jocks being among those. Envy is usually a very large factor in mass shootings.

Or rhat they actually saw themselves as superior. I think that was part of it. Jocks were a particular hatred, for Klebold, because he resented the privilege that the jocks had.

i think part of dylans hatred for the jocks came from the different experiences him and his brother had at columbine. his brother was a jock and most likely didnt get picked on whereas dylan wasnt a jock and obviously got bullied

lognifiiskurk wrote:

i think part of dylans hatred for the jocks came from the different experiences him and his brother had at columbine. his brother was a jock and most likely didnt get picked on whereas dylan wasnt a jock and obviously got bullied

Yeah I remember that Byron was supposed to be athletic or something(not sure jock is the right word for it). As for Dylan being picked on, there are multiple and conflicting statements.

He said that he wasnt as picked on as Eric to Tom Klebold. He argued that he was too big. Nate said the same thing in an interview. That Eric was the one being bullied/harassed.

Yet, Sue Klebold argued in her book that someone had told her that Dylan and hes friends had trash thrown at them by jocks, and he tried to comfort a new member- 'dont worry about it man. Happens all the time'. IDK wether Dylan tried to hide what hes life was really like at school or wether he was actually bullied.

It should be pointed out, though, that Sue Klebold had no idea what her sons life was like at school. So, most of her references are usually from third hand accounts. That is, friends of Dylan or people in the Community in and around Denve/Littleton.

DooMRebel wrote:

Eric and Dylan broke into a van. That's a huge sing of low intelligence.

Actually, seems more like teenage boys struggling with impulse control issues.

Norwegian wrote:

lognifiiskurk wrote:

i think part of dylans hatred for the jocks came from the different experiences him and his brother had at columbine. his brother was a jock and most likely didnt get picked on whereas dylan wasnt a jock and obviously got bullied

Yeah I remember that Byron was supposed to be athletic or something(not sure jock is the right word for it). As for Dylan being picked on, there are multiple and conflicting statements.

He said that he wasnt as picked on as  Eric to Tom Klebold. He argued that he was too big. Nate said the same thing in an interview. That Eric was the one being bullied/harassed.

Yet, Sue Klebold argued in her book that someone had told her that Dylan and hes friends had trash thrown at them by jocks, and he tried to comfort a new member- 'dont worry about it man. Happens all the time'. IDK wether Dylan tried to hide what hes life was really like at school or wether he was actually bullied.

It should be pointed out, though, that Sue Klebold had no idea what her sons life was like at school. So, most of her references are usually from third hand accounts. That is, friends of Dylan or people in the Community in and around Denve/Littleton.

He was 140 pounds. He was weak and could've easily been shoved around.

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

lognifiiskurk wrote:

i think part of dylans hatred for the jocks came from the different experiences him and his brother had at columbine. his brother was a jock and most likely didnt get picked on whereas dylan wasnt a jock and obviously got bullied

Yeah I remember that Byron was supposed to be athletic or something(not sure jock is the right word for it). As for Dylan being picked on, there are multiple and conflicting statements.

He said that he wasnt as picked on as  Eric to Tom Klebold. He argued that he was too big. Nate said the same thing in an interview. That Eric was the one being bullied/harassed.

Yet, Sue Klebold argued in her book that someone had told her that Dylan and hes friends had trash thrown at them by jocks, and he tried to comfort a new member- 'dont worry about it man. Happens all the time'. IDK wether Dylan tried to hide what hes life was really like at school or wether he was actually bullied.

It should be pointed out, though, that Sue Klebold had no idea what her sons life was like at school. So, most of her references are usually from third hand accounts. That is, friends of Dylan or people in the Community in and around Denve/Littleton.

He was 140 pounds. He was weak and could've easily been shoved around.

All of it is just speculation, anyhow. There are other statements that does seem to suggest that Dylan wasnt nearly as picked on or harassed as much as Eric. Nate Dykeman, for example, one of Dylans best friends.

I cant figure out why Frank Ochberg suggests none of them were bullied, when Sue claims that they had these conversations about bullying with others. I would say, I think her statement, from what Ive read in the two books(Far from the tree, A mothers reckoning), is a bit murky. She suggests that 'Larkins perspective mirrors that of our conversations'. She mentions that a friend- She doesnt say who- suggests that Dylan and a few of their friends had stuff thrown at them from driving vehicles on one occasion. She also suggests that something had happened to Dylans car as if someone sat on it, but its impossible to comprehend wether that was bullying or what it was.

She also argues that the school was a frightning place even if you were popular, and that Dylan was not. In that case it makes sense that they might have been bullied. I Just cant wrap my head around why some of their closest friends, even, argues that they were not and why some experts argue that they were not, also.

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

AZ20 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

Not entirely, and let me explain why.

First thing, yes, Brooks Brown claimed to have withnessed bullying up close. Yet, relying on one persons account doesnt necessarily cut it. There are several other friends of Eric and Dylan; Nathan, Zach, Robyn, Devon, Eric Veik, to name a few(but there are others as well). I havent looked at everyones statements and interviews, but lets look at the few Im aware of- Brooks, Robyn, Nate and Devon. Brooks suggests suggests throughout hes book that Dylan was bullied since Elementary school. Devon explained how Eric and Dylan recieved looks(yet, I always interpret this with cation, given Ive read that they used to be trouble makers aswell). Devon provided a statement where She said that she got slammed into a locker for talking to Dylan.


But if we look into other statements by Nate and Robyn, Nate suggested that Eric was the one being picked on and not Dylan. Robyn, on the other hand, argues that She had never seen them getting picked on.

What else is there? Frank Ochberg, the forensic psychiatrist that helped investigating the case says that 'in spite of views to the contrary, Eric and Dylan were not bullied'.

I think this leads us to the point Where theres likely not much of an answer.

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

Not entirely, and let me explain why.

First thing, yes, Brooks Brown claimed to have withnessed bullying up close. Yet, relying on one persons account doesnt necessarily cut it. There are several other friends of Eric and Dylan; Nathan, Zach, Robyn, Devon, Eric Veik, to name a few(but there are others as well). I havent looked at everyones statements and interviews, but lets look at the few Im aware of- Brooks, Robyn, Nate and Devon. Brooks suggests suggests throughout hes book that Dylan was bullied since Elementary school. Devon explained how Eric and Dylan recieved looks(yet, I always interpret this with cation, given Ive read that they used to be trouble makers aswell). Devon provided a statement where She said that she got slammed into a locker for talking to Dylan.


But if we look into other statements by Nate and Robyn, Nate suggested that Eric was the one being picked on and not Dylan. Robyn, on the other hand, argues that She had never seen them getting picked on.

What else is there? Frank Ochberg, the forensic psychiatrist that helped investigating the case says that 'in spite of views to the contrary, Eric and Dylan were not bullied'.

I think this leads us to the point Where theres likely not much of an answer.

Yeah because a psychiatrist clearly went to Columbine High School. I'm going to pick his word over the people that actually knew Eric and Dylan, and were very close to them. Eric and Dylan were bullied, however Eric was definitely teased more than Dylan. We don't know the extent of the bullying, but after researching Columbine over 10 years I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the "bullied" stories that Eric and Dylan received weren't really them, and others would get them confused with the TCM, who actually had members who were physically abused by jocks throughout high school. I'm pretty sure at this point from what I've viewed they were teased, but no more than your average dork, or your average freshman


Bullying was a small factor in Columbine High School, but they were still bullied. However Eric and Dylan never had to pick up pennies from their noses. Eric and Dylan were never made to slide in the hallway by using lotion on the floor to make it slippery. The Tampon Ketchup Incident was a complete myth that people continue to confuse with everyday. There were separate incidents. The whole thing with Rocky and his goons telling Eric and Dylan "to kiss" is a lie. That was actually towards Eric Dutro and Joe Stair, who would purposely do things in front of Rocky and his goons, because they (Rocky and co) were very homophobic. The whole "ketchup incident" I believe was a food fight and the tampons thrown was at the TCM.

A lot of the mystic BS lies continue that surround Columbine, but it is what it is. People believe what they want, and actually believed Eric and Dylan were tormented everyday. You have kids who are actual rejects at their school who look up to those two clowns, who by the way, I am positive Eric and Dylan would've bullied them too, since they bullied others themselves.

Eric and Dylan weren't loners either. Brooks Brown and his continued exaggeration bullshit is just that...bullshit. They had their own group of friends. They weren't popular, but they weren't the "losers of the losers"; "lowest of the low". They had way more friends than killers like Adam Lanza, or Elliot Rodger

Eric and Dylan committed the shooting at Columbine High School for various different reasons such as bullying, hatred towards humanity, and infamy. Infamy is a huge one that isn't talked about enough here. These boys were recording their Basement Tapes for the world to see. They wanted copycats. They wanted to be famous, and wanted people to forever talk about them (they got their wish. They won). Eric wrote his entire journal for an audience, because he knew every scientist out there would try to "decipher" if he was truly a psychopath or not (He wasn't)

lol wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

Not entirely, and let me explain why.

First thing, yes, Brooks Brown claimed to have withnessed bullying up close. Yet, relying on one persons account doesnt necessarily cut it. There are several other friends of Eric and Dylan; Nathan, Zach, Robyn, Devon, Eric Veik, to name a few(but there are others as well). I havent looked at everyones statements and interviews, but lets look at the few Im aware of- Brooks, Robyn, Nate and Devon. Brooks suggests suggests throughout hes book that Dylan was bullied since Elementary school. Devon explained how Eric and Dylan recieved looks(yet, I always interpret this with cation, given Ive read that they used to be trouble makers aswell). Devon provided a statement where She said that she got slammed into a locker for talking to Dylan.


But if we look into other statements by Nate and Robyn, Nate suggested that Eric was the one being picked on and not Dylan. Robyn, on the other hand, argues that She had never seen them getting picked on.

What else is there? Frank Ochberg, the forensic psychiatrist that helped investigating the case says that 'in spite of views to the contrary, Eric and Dylan were not bullied'.

I think this leads us to the point Where theres likely not much of an answer.

Yeah because a psychiatrist clearly went to Columbine High School. I'm going to pick his word over the people that actually knew Eric and Dylan, and were very close to them. Eric and Dylan were bullied, however Eric was definitely teased more than Dylan. We don't know the extent of the bullying, but after researching Columbine over 10 years I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the "bullied" stories that Eric and Dylan received weren't really them, and others would get them confused with the TCM, who actually had members who were physically abused by jocks throughout high school. I'm pretty sure at this point from what I've viewed they were teased, but no more than your average dork, or your average freshman


Bullying was a small factor in Columbine High School, but they were still bullied. However Eric and Dylan never had to pick up pennies from their noses. Eric and Dylan were never made to slide in the hallway by using lotion on the floor to make it slippery. The Tampon Ketchup Incident was a complete myth that people continue to confuse with everyday. There were separate incidents. The whole thing with Rocky and his goons telling Eric and Dylan "to kiss" is a lie. That was actually towards Eric Dutro and Joe Stair, who would purposely do things in front of Rocky and his goons, because they (Rocky and co) were very homophobic. The whole "ketchup incident" I believe was a food fight and the tampons thrown was at the TCM.

A lot of the mystic BS lies continue that surround Columbine, but it is what it is. People believe what they want, and actually believed Eric and Dylan were tormented everyday. You have kids who are actual rejects at their school who look up to those two clowns, who by the way, I am positive Eric and Dylan would've bullied them too, since they bullied others themselves.

Eric and Dylan weren't loners either. Brooks Brown and his continued exaggeration bullshit is just that...bullshit. They had their own group of friends. They weren't popular, but they weren't the "losers of the losers"; "lowest of the low". They had way more friends than killers like Adam Lanza, or Elliot Rodger

Eric and Dylan committed the shooting at Columbine High School for various different reasons such as bullying, hatred towards humanity, and infamy. Infamy is a huge one that isn't talked about enough here. These boys were recording their Basement Tapes for the world to see. They wanted copycats. They wanted to be famous, and wanted people to forever talk about them (they got their wish. They won). Eric wrote his entire journal for an audience, because he knew every scientist out there would try to "decipher" if he was truly a psychopath or not (He wasn't)

Is there a witness statement included in the 11k that refers to the ketchup incident being a food fight? Just curious as to where you found the definitive answer to the age old question of ketchup packets vs ketchup tampons.

As for wanting infamy, completely agree. They were looking for the world's attention and didn't care what it took to get it...That said, since they're dead and don't know wtf happened after they blew their brains out, I wouldn't exactly call it a win. It's not like they get to revel in their celebrity status. Not too glamours being found covered in brains and your own shit.

lol wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

Not entirely, and let me explain why.

First thing, yes, Brooks Brown claimed to have withnessed bullying up close. Yet, relying on one persons account doesnt necessarily cut it. There are several other friends of Eric and Dylan; Nathan, Zach, Robyn, Devon, Eric Veik, to name a few(but there are others as well). I havent looked at everyones statements and interviews, but lets look at the few Im aware of- Brooks, Robyn, Nate and Devon. Brooks suggests suggests throughout hes book that Dylan was bullied since Elementary school. Devon explained how Eric and Dylan recieved looks(yet, I always interpret this with cation, given Ive read that they used to be trouble makers aswell). Devon provided a statement where She said that she got slammed into a locker for talking to Dylan.


But if we look into other statements by Nate and Robyn, Nate suggested that Eric was the one being picked on and not Dylan. Robyn, on the other hand, argues that She had never seen them getting picked on.

What else is there? Frank Ochberg, the forensic psychiatrist that helped investigating the case says that 'in spite of views to the contrary, Eric and Dylan were not bullied'.

I think this leads us to the point Where theres likely not much of an answer.

Yeah because a psychiatrist clearly went to Columbine High School. I'm going to pick his word over the people that actually knew Eric and Dylan, and were very close to them. Eric and Dylan were bullied, however Eric was definitely teased more than Dylan. We don't know the extent of the bullying, but after researching Columbine over 10 years I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the "bullied" stories that Eric and Dylan received weren't really them, and others would get them confused with the TCM, who actually had members who were physically abused by jocks throughout high school. I'm pretty sure at this point from what I've viewed they were teased, but no more than your average dork, or your average freshman


Bullying was a small factor in Columbine High School, but they were still bullied. However Eric and Dylan never had to pick up pennies from their noses. Eric and Dylan were never made to slide in the hallway by using lotion on the floor to make it slippery. The Tampon Ketchup Incident was a complete myth that people continue to confuse with everyday. There were separate incidents. The whole thing with Rocky and his goons telling Eric and Dylan "to kiss" is a lie. That was actually towards Eric Dutro and Joe Stair, who would purposely do things in front of Rocky and his goons, because they (Rocky and co) were very homophobic. The whole "ketchup incident" I believe was a food fight and the tampons thrown was at the TCM.

A lot of the mystic BS lies continue that surround Columbine, but it is what it is. People believe what they want, and actually believed Eric and Dylan were tormented everyday. You have kids who are actual rejects at their school who look up to those two clowns, who by the way, I am positive Eric and Dylan would've bullied them too, since they bullied others themselves.

Eric and Dylan weren't loners either. Brooks Brown and his continued exaggeration bullshit is just that...bullshit. They had their own group of friends. They weren't popular, but they weren't the "losers of the losers"; "lowest of the low". They had way more friends than killers like Adam Lanza, or Elliot Rodger

Eric and Dylan committed the shooting at Columbine High School for various different reasons such as bullying, hatred towards humanity, and infamy. Infamy is a huge one that isn't talked about enough here. These boys were recording their Basement Tapes for the world to see. They wanted copycats. They wanted to be famous, and wanted people to forever talk about them (they got their wish. They won). Eric wrote his entire journal for an audience, because he knew every scientist out there would try to "decipher" if he was truly a psychopath or not (He wasn't)

The best we can do is probably to ask questions. Ochberg worked on the investigation and with the students after the shooting. Always go back to the source. Find out Where this came from. Thats my take. Us humans tends to be confused when represented with New evidence. Im not saying that Eric and Dylan werent bullied or occasionally harassed. Im saying giving it the benefit of the doubt is always a good idea when represented with new information. I agree that the aspect of infamy is important, though. Does it make sense to say that someone that plans to go out on a mass shooting in order to seek infamy is a psychopath or just extremely narssistic? I dont think thats necessarily, but I do believe that some of them are.

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As for Ochberg, he worked on the case, and he also talked to students that went to Columbine, from what I gather


Bound By A Trauma Called Columbine
By Frank M. OchbergNovember 19, 2000
'To walk through Columbine High School today is to be struck by the apparent normality of it all. Students greet each other between classes. A teacher jokes with a group of girls and boys in the hall. Band members tote instruments to practice. It's almost as if the shootings of April 20, 1999, had never happened.

But the cheerful ordinariness that prevails on the surface masks a painful paradox: Though the school and the community are gradually returning to normal, they will never, on one level, be "normal" in people's minds again. The name "Columbine" will always signal more than the name of a high school. And those who lived through the killing cannot deny to themselves that their lives have been forever changed, reorganized around tragedy and loss.

Assistant principal Chris Mikesell still has upsetting lapses of concentration. "I got back from vacation, and what did I do?" she recalls with exasperation. "I drove right into my son's car!" She is distressed by the holes in her memory of the day that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold strode into the school and started shooting. A former math teacher, Mikesell had always specialized in logic and deliberation. Now she struggles with a disturbing sense of diminished control over life'.


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'For more than a year, I have worked with survivors of the shootings at the Littleton, Colo., high school that left 14 teenagers (including the two killers) and one teacher dead, and many others wounded. I have seen Columbine struggling to recover from a form of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)--the disorder most associated with survivors of war--and the shame and blame that attach to the profoundly wounding trauma the community suffered'