Interesting 11k Findings

I'd venture a guess and say he mistook Sean Graves for Nate. Depends on the height though. Nate was taller than Dylan I think?

Nate was 6'4. Eric must have felt even shorter considering how tall his friends were.

Edit: Chris Morris was 6'2. Brooks 6'4. Not sure about Zach.

I think Zach was over 6 feet tall. With the exception of Eric and then maybe some of the peripheral friends of their group like Erik V and them, they were all pretty tall. Eric H seemed to be the shortest but also the mouthiest (I was going to say loudest but we all know which one was the loudest)

Screamingophelia wrote:

Eric H seemed to be the shortest but also the mouthiest (I was going to say loudest but we all know which one was the loudest)

Dylan can yell real good!

Screamingophelia wrote:

Eric H seemed to be the shortest but also the mouthiest (I was going to say loudest but we all know which one was the loudest)

Eric definitely had a Napoleon complex. But in my opinion he was an average/decent height for a guy.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Eric H seemed to be the shortest but also the mouthiest (I was going to say loudest but we all know which one was the loudest)

Eric definitely had a Napoleon complex. But in my opinion he was an average/decent height for a guy.

He's really not THAT short at all. I guess he was just around a lot of tall people. LOL

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Eric H seemed to be the shortest but also the mouthiest (I was going to say loudest but we all know which one was the loudest)

Dylan can yell real good!

LOL he sure can.

I am 99.9% sure this report is about Dustin Gorton. It references a lot of the same things from the un-redacted report stating he was a sex offender, shot at an officer's home, etc.

For anyone that wanted more info ...

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Thanks for sharing! Damn convicted of sexual assult on a Child in 9/1/96. So he was maybe 14/15 at the time? He pleaded guilty to "Fondling" said child. I wonder how old the "Child" was?

It's weird that they said "child" and not just "minor"...

Wonder if any of his friends knew about it?

Littlelo wrote:

It's weird that they said "child" and not just "minor"...

Wonder if any of his friends knew about it?

Yeah I find the use of "Child" and not "Minor" thought provoking as well. I wonder what the legal age of consent was in the area back then?

This is what I found so far.

Close-in-age: In Colorado, a person who is under 15 can legally consent to have sex with someone who is no more than 4 years older. Additionally, a person under 17 can legally consent to sex with a person who is no more than 10 years older.

I'm surprised the info was released since he was a minor too. He started a support group for survivors of mass shootings too. I'm not sure what think.

Screamingophelia wrote:

This is what I found so far.

Close-in-age: In Colorado, a person who is under 15 can legally consent to have sex with someone who is no more than 4 years older. Additionally, a person under 17 can legally consent to sex with a person who is no more than 10 years older.

I'm surprised the info was released since he was a minor too. He started a support group for survivors of mass shootings too.  I'm not sure what think.

The way it's worded in the report makes it seem more like he was a child predator versus a case of age and consent. But since we don't know all the facts I guess I can't really pass judgment.

I hope if it was as serious as it seems that he got help for his problem and has stayed out of trouble.

I agree, the way it is worded would make one assume that he was messing around with a small child.

But I also agree that since we have no clue what went down or the actual age of the other person that we really shouldn't pass judgement.

I am kinda shocked that this was even found, since he was indeed a minor his record should have been sealed.

There are people who do say things like Eric and Dylan killed children and "little girls" they were 17 and 18 and one of their victims was 14.. they were kids too. There's a different in my mind when kids do things like that to other kids than adults. Eric was BARELY 18 and the boys weren't fully developed in the head and had a lot of issues.

Then again when I was a volunteer at child advocacy I did see files from kids I went to school with who got into trouble in foster care for things like that and were completely kind to others and didn't ding any warning signs with me...

I'm just not sure how you can be a registered sex offender but go to public high school.

Another disturbing thing is I bet people in the know would be more worried about Dustin than someone like Eric or Dylan.

If he was 14/15 if still could have been a younger girl and an over protective parent.

Dustin was always someone who struck me as a good guy, wasn't he the one who helped Dylan clean up after the ketchup?

Anyone else find this "love letter" from Eric very manipulative/fake? I feel like he is saying what he thinks a girl would want to hear TBH...

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Some parts yes. Both the boys signing "love" to their letters are a bit off putting before even going out. I get uncomfortable hearing that now and I'm over 30 now, wait for the L word until we've been together for a while bub. Dylan's is worse his "I love you and if you love me I WON'T kill myself"

Screamingophelia wrote:

Some parts yes. Both the boys signing "love" to their letters are a bit off putting before even going out. I get uncomfortable hearing that now and I'm over 30 now, wait for the L word until we've been together for a while bub. Dylan's is worse his "I love you and if you love me I WON'T kill myself"

Agreed. I also find both E and D very arbitrary when it comes to their love interests. I could be wrong, but doesn't it seem like Eric would just go for any girl that seemed slightly interested? Or a girl who was easy to get time with (e.g. Girls at work or in his classes?)

Eric did seem to like a bit of a chase.

Their dating lives confuse me. On one hand you hear about their weird shy awkwardness but they had no trouble asking girls out and stuff.

Not for dating, but Dylan was one of the main people who approached the director of the Ascot Theatre company to put on his, Brooks and Zach's shows. In an interview she actually cited Brooks as the odd one, with a nice voice but very strange. She said Dylan was polite but persistent, he really wanted to move forward.

Dylan's friends made him this for his 17th birthday, which I know has been posted before.

I just noticed on the back of the page where they wrote the note, you can see the name "VODKA" written on the license plate of the car. I wonder why they decided to cover it up, unless it just didn't copy properly.

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I've only seen it crossed off on the front. It's kind of weird. They crossed out Devon and Zach's names too.

Devon seemed like a really nice and genuine person. She must have really won Dylan over.

List of items found in the glovebox of Dylan's BMW by investigators

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Did anyone see where Dylan supposedly had two ladies watches in his car?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Did anyone see where Dylan supposedly had two ladies watches in his car?

Only reference to watches recovered as evidence (that I could find). I didn't see anything about them being ladies watches but that does sound familiar.

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Does anyone have any more Information about the Email Eric had written but not sent, to his friend in NY? I’m curious now. Probably mentioning how CO was, and how much he hated it? Hmm.

star555 wrote:

Does anyone have any more Information about the Email Eric had written but not sent, to his friend in NY? I’m curious now. Probably mentioning how CO was, and how much he hated it? Hmm.

I'm fairly certain it was meant for Sarah Davis, a friend from Plattsburgh. She has done a few interviews so you can find some articles online about her.

I remember hearing it was one of those surveys where you send them to others to fill out and then post them but I have no idea how accurate that is. So much info in the 11k it's easy to mix things up

Edit: here is what I am talking about

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Littlelo wrote:

star555 wrote:

Does anyone have any more Information about the Email Eric had written but not sent, to his friend in NY? I’m curious now. Probably mentioning how CO was, and how much he hated it? Hmm.

I'm fairly certain it was meant for Sarah Davis, a friend from Plattsburgh. She has done a few interviews so you can find some articles online about her.

I remember hearing it was one of those surveys where you send them to others to fill out and then post them but I have no idea how accurate that is. So much info in the 11k it's easy to mix things up

Edit: here is what I am talking about

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I recently read an interview with her, it was an old one. She said they spoke about the van break in and she said the day she heard about the shooting she told her dad she was worried about Eric and her dad told her it was Eric who was doing the shooting. I think that's the same person?

Littlelo wrote:

star555 wrote:

Does anyone have any more Information about the Email Eric had written but not sent, to his friend in NY? I’m curious now. Probably mentioning how CO was, and how much he hated it? Hmm.

I'm fairly certain it was meant for Sarah Davis, a friend from Plattsburgh. She has done a few interviews so you can find some articles online about her.

I remember hearing it was one of those surveys where you send them to others to fill out and then post them but I have no idea how accurate that is. So much info in the 11k it's easy to mix things up

I also suggested that in another thread but I was just taking a guess based on the phrasing of the lead for Sarah Davis.
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Did anyone manage to find any more information on that? I asked if there was anything other than the one page for Sarah Davis in the 11k but it doesn't look like there was.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Ah [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] maybe you're who I first heard it from! It's not a bad theory.

Thank you so much for that reply Littlelo, and sscc , i've seen that image floating around a lot, and wondered where it specifically came from, and now it makes 100% sense, hence all of the Personal data, his name, parents name, hobbies, etc etc  

(i'm new to this and not really sure how to reply to you, so that it re-posts what you had said i'm sorry!)

Also, i noticed in the survey chain letter eric had filled out: His favorite person to talk to is ____ in CSU, which takes me back to his chatlogs with this girl who was moving to college, at CSU. (Which i briefly remember is Jen, from eric saying "Gawd Jen")

I've taken to rereading the 11k again, since my interest in Columbine has been rekindled. Most of my observations are just silly little things and this one is no different.
In Jennifer Doyle's second interview on the day after the shooting, she makes the statement on page 5 'They asked someone if his name was John but John was gone'. I know what this refers to and I know what she must have meant, but what on Earth did she say to the detectives to make them write that down?

That is weird I never realized that before ...

On page 42, Patrick Ireland describes hearing a 'deeper' voice coughing in the east section of the library. This has widely been accepted (from what I've read at least) to have been Dylan, who did in fact aspirate blood after he shot himself so this is a possibility. Dylan, however, was to the south of Pat Ireland's location and quite close to him as well. Lisa Kreutz was the only one left alive in the east section.

There are only a few possibilities; one would be that it was Dylan but Patrick got the location wrong. The second would be that it was Lisa and Patrick only thought the voice sounded deeper because his injuries distorted the sound. He did describe his ears ringing, and he was understandably confused and disorientated to the point where he couldn't properly follow police officers' instructions when he went out the window.

The third one is a bit out there. What if it was to the east of where Patrick was and it was a deeper voice. How likely is it that John Tomlin was still alive? I couldn't really get anything from his autopsy summary.

Did Patrick mean all the way on the other side of the library or just to the east of his location? If he meant the latter, could it have been Daniel Mauser? Corey DePooter isn't likely, he was all the way in the south end of the center section and both Jennifer Doyle and Austin Eubanks described thinking he was dead.

What do you guys think? Personally, I don't know what to think. Did he hear coughing at all? He was shot in the head, is it possible to hear things that aren't there? Did he hear himself cough? So many confusing possibilities.

I think Dylan shot John Tomlin in the head, so he probably died very quickly.

If you look at the time that is generally accepted, Eric and Dylan committed suicide at approximately 12:09. Patrick Ireland describes hearing four or five bells ringing between waking up and escaping from the library (at approximately 02:38).

The bells that rang after 12:09 were at 12:10 (beginning of B Lunch), 12:40 (end of fifth period class and B Lunch), 12:45 (start of sixth period), 01:35 (end of sixth period), 01:40 (start of seventh period) and 02:30 (end of seventh period).

If Patrick woke up not longer after Dylan shot himself, then he could have heard five bells before he escaped from the library. This could make it Dylan that he heard.

JeffCo received a call about boys carving something into a picnic table prior to 4/20, and photographs were taken of the carvings as part of the investigation. Here is the photo log description from the 11k. Has it ever been confirmed or debunked as to whether or not it was E&D?

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These pages were both in the 11k and it appears Eric and Dylan were in the same class doing the same assignment...thought it was interesting:

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Littlelo wrote:

These pages were both in the 11k and it appears Eric and Dylan were in the same class doing the same assignment...thought it was interesting:

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Eric's was a bit funnier, no one was disturbed by Dylan's?

Littlelo wrote:

JeffCo received a call about boys carving something into a picnic table prior to 4/20, and photographs were taken of the carvings as part of the investigation. Here is the photo log description from the 11k. Has it ever been confirmed or debunked as to whether or not it was E&D?

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I'm not sure! I think it was debunked but I don't have the evidence

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

These pages were both in the 11k and it appears Eric and Dylan were in the same class doing the same assignment...thought it was interesting:

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Eric's was a bit funnier, no one was disturbed by Dylan's?

Maybe they just couldn't really read it. His handwriting makes my eyes hurt!

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

These pages were both in the 11k and it appears Eric and Dylan were in the same class doing the same assignment...thought it was interesting:

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Eric's was a bit funnier, no one was disturbed by Dylan's?

Maybe they just couldn't really read it. His handwriting makes my eyes hurt!  

I think my eyeglasses must be very strong because I can make it out but it takes me a while.

Dammit Dylan you had doctors handwriting! You could've been so many things. But NOO... had to find the 5th dimension.

I'm in a goofy mood

So this is not interesting.  It’s kind of annoying actually.  I know that it has pretty much been proven that no one else had any inclination that Columbine was going to happen.  However, all of the people who are giving witness statements that claim to have seen a third person or someone that they perceive to look different from Dylan or Eric, I feel like they are getting badgered by the interviewers.  I know they are trying to make the witnesses understand that only Dylan and Eric were the shooters but I feel like witness are describing what they truly believe they saw (for the most part anyways; I know that some exaggerated their accounts).  I feel like some of the investigators are only trying to get the witnesses to say what they want to hear and not what the witnesses actually believed they saw.

Ainjel wrote:

So this is not interesting.  It’s kind of annoying actually.  I know that it has pretty much been proven that no one else had any inclination that Columbine was going to happen.  However, all of the people who are giving witness statements that claim to have seen a third person or someone that they perceive to look different from Dylan or Eric, I feel like they are getting badgered by the interviewers.  I know they are trying to make the witnesses understand that only Dylan and Eric were the shooters but I feel like witness are describing what they truly believe they saw (for the most part anyways; I know that some exaggerated their accounts).  I feel like some of the investigators are only trying to get the witnesses to say what they want to hear and not what the witnesses actually believed they saw.

I know what you mean, in some instances they kept on insisting that there were only two shooters until the witness agreed that they only saw two. Great investigating right there!

I think some of the confusion came from them removing their coats as well.

Thats definitely where alot of the confusion came from

I'm reading the Klebolds statement and I noticed that starting on 10506 they have the charge and victim and it is just Lauren Townsends name. I have not noticed other victims names being mentioned in that way.

10510- Sue said Zach and Nate went after the same girl a few months prior to 4/20 and were not speaking... I wonder if she meant Eric since Zach was with Devon for quite some time before then.

There is an interview with Byron! I never read this part.

So there has to be one with Kevin I assume.

What page is the interview with Byron? Let me know if you find anything involving Kevin :-)

TaylorsMom wrote:

What page is the interview with Byron?  Let me know if you find anything involving Kevin :-)

It starts on page 10524


Nothing on the Harris's or Kevin, after some more researching they didn't give a proper statement until October 1999 (which is the same month as the Basement Tape and evidence viewing Sue talked about in AMR)

Has anyone read Yoshi Carroll's 11k interview? He talks a lot about Zach as well and some not so nice things he had to say about Dylan.. not sure how anyone could still call Zach his best friend. Devon maybe but Zach.. I mean this was before 4/20.