The small questions thread

sympathyforEandD wrote:

I don't think "crazy clown" was the look Dylan was shooting for. Poor Dyl.

Why did Dylan's mom shove him and how exactly did he react?

What did girls in general think of Eric when he was alive? Anything juicy in the 11k about this?

No, I think he was going for some sort of hippie assassin?!

In A Mothers Reckoning Sue was talking about her hard year with Dylan's troubles as well as the health issues of Dylan's dad Tom. I guess according to Sue, Dylan had been really irritable and disrespectful, his grades were slipping AND he missed Mother's Day and that was the straw that broke the camels back so she started lecturing him and she shoved him against the fridge I believe. I imagine Dylan was probably smirking or rolling his eyes at her while she was talking which probably made her angrier. Then Dylan said "don't push me mom, I'm getting angry and I don't know if I can control it" so she backed off and they spoke later in the day and they both felt awful. He apologized and she apologized to him.



The last one is a good question, I know there are a lot of instances where girls talk about Eric. I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] probably has some good links and info for that.

Chapter 3 has some good info about E/D and girls:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Screamingophelia wrote:

In A Mothers Reckoning Sue was talking about her hard year with Dylan's troubles as well as the health issues of Dylan's dad Tom. I guess according to Sue, Dylan had been really irritable and disrespectful, his grades were slipping AND he missed Mother's Day and that was the straw that broke the camels back so she started lecturing him and she shoved him against the fridge I believe.

I maintain that this was a rather poor decision for Sue to have made. I understand that she couldn't have known that her son was a budding killer, but I have little doubt in my mind that Dylan was seething about this.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

In A Mothers Reckoning Sue was talking about her hard year with Dylan's troubles as well as the health issues of Dylan's dad Tom. I guess according to Sue, Dylan had been really irritable and disrespectful, his grades were slipping AND he missed Mother's Day and that was the straw that broke the camels back so she started lecturing him and she shoved him against the fridge I believe.

I maintain that this was a rather poor decision for Sue to have made. I understand that she couldn't have known that her son was a budding killer, but I have little doubt in my mind that Dylan was seething about this.

I imagine he was. He was Already feeling a certain anger and discomfort with his family. And whether or not you believe what he went through at school it had to have been hard for him to be pushed against the fridge by his mom.

I don’t think he wanted to hurt his mom, but I think he was realizing that he was probably capable of hurting someone.

That’s an interesting thing I wish I knew a little more about. When did they become desensitized to the fact that they could hurt people or was it the day of? Because they had never gotten into any physical fights before.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - thanks!

no problem anytime

check out the Columbine Master Archive for more

I have two 11k questions. Perhaps [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] would be the one to answer!

I don't know if I missed it but in Lance Kirklins statement he doesn't say anything about Dylan saying "sure, I'll help you" before getting shot. Did I overlook it, or did that come from somewhere else?

Also are there any witnesses statements that are missing? I ask that because I read about a student who was in one of the rooms near the library.... but I cannot find his witness statement in the 11k? Ben Lausten

Lance Kirklin's verbal exchange with Dylan was not in his statement however you can find it here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It was also noted in Jeff Kass', Dave Cullen's, and Tim Krabbe's book.


*Good point about missing/not included statements.

If you look at 016321-016388 Master Index, you will notice quite a lot of redactions that include missing people's statements, etc.

Benjamin Lausten was on Eric's Shit List and maybe that is the reason why his statement was never included.

sororityalpha wrote:

Lance Kirklin's verbal exchange with Dylan was not in his statement however you can find it here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It was also noted in Jeff Kass', Dave Cullen's, and Tim Krabbe's book.


*Good point about missing/not included statements.

If you look at 016321-016388 Master Index, you will notice quite a lot of redactions that include missing people's statements, etc.

Benjamin Lausten was on Eric's Shit List and maybe that is the reason why his statement was never included.

Thank you!!

No problem, anytime!

Does anyone know if either Eric or Dylan listened to Radiohead or the Smashing Pumpkins? I could imagine Dylan listening to them, but Eric not so much.

SavageGlocker wrote:

Does anyone know if either Eric or Dylan listened to Radiohead or the Smashing Pumpkins? I could imagine Dylan listening to them, but Eric not so much.

Can't imagine either listening to Radiohead. I think they both listened to Smashing Pumpkins. Dylan sketched out a webpage and said it would play Disarm.

Did Sue comment on how Dylan behaved at home, like on a daily basis? What was he like to live with?

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Did Sue comment on how Dylan behaved at home, like on a daily basis? What was he like to live with?

She talks about it in her book and in a few interviews.

Junior year after the arrest he teetered between being moody, distant but also gave glimpses of his old self. Having dinner with Sue and Tom, making everyone laugh etc..

He spent a lot of time in his room on the computer but Sue felt like he got out enough hanging out with friends, working and participating in plays that she wasn't all too worried. Before the van break in, it sounds like Dylan was pretty normal to live with. Sue said she was never afraid of Dylan, which is telling, even when he told her he couldn't control his anger she felt bad and didn't want Dylan to be angry and upset even though she was hurt about Mothers Day and his attitude.

Though in the 11k people say that Dylan didn't get along with his dad and hated being at home. He also said Byron was kicked out of the house... so we don't completely know.

Screamingophelia wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Did Sue comment on how Dylan behaved at home, like on a daily basis? What was he like to live with?

She talks about it in her book and in a few interviews.

Junior year after the arrest he teetered between being moody, distant but also gave glimpses of his old self. Having dinner with Sue and Tom, making everyone laugh etc..

He spent a lot of time in his room on the computer but Sue felt like he got out enough hanging out with friends, working and participating in plays that she wasn't all too worried. Before the van break in, it sounds like Dylan was pretty normal to live with. Sue said she was never afraid of Dylan, which is telling, even when he told her he couldn't control his anger she felt bad and didn't want Dylan to be angry and upset even though she was hurt about Mothers Day and his attitude.

Though in the 11k people say that Dylan didn't get along with his dad and hated being at home. He also said Byron was kicked out of the house... so we don't completely know.

The underlined is what I think is important here. If this is true, I think it's rather telling about how Dylan's real feelings about his home life was.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], thanks so much.

My next question is, what was Eric like to live with? How did he behave at home? Did his parents ever notice a few screws loose?

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Did Sue comment on how Dylan behaved at home, like on a daily basis? What was he like to live with?

She talks about it in her book and in a few interviews.

Junior year after the arrest he teetered between being moody, distant but also gave glimpses of his old self. Having dinner with Sue and Tom, making everyone laugh etc..

He spent a lot of time in his room on the computer but Sue felt like he got out enough hanging out with friends, working and participating in plays that she wasn't all too worried. Before the van break in, it sounds like Dylan was pretty normal to live with. Sue said she was never afraid of Dylan, which is telling, even when he told her he couldn't control his anger she felt bad and didn't want Dylan to be angry and upset even though she was hurt about Mothers Day and his attitude.

Though in the 11k people say that Dylan didn't get along with his dad and hated being at home. He also said Byron was kicked out of the house... so we don't completely know.

The underlined is what I think is important here. If this is true, I think it's rather telling about how Dylan's real feelings about his home life was.

I think so too. Which is why it would be really interesting to hear from Byron or Tom.

Were there other reasons why they didn't want the book written?

sympathyforEandD wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], thanks so much.

My next question is, what was Eric like to live with? How did he behave at home? Did his parents ever notice a few screws loose?

You're welcome!

Eric's family has always been really private but a lot of people called them "the Cleavers" so really traditional etc..

I think Wayne had worries about Eric due to his notebook he kept on Eric, and any troubles were kept in the house, he didn't want his families business in public.

We know Eric had punched a wall when he was an underclassman but I think with his dad being from a military background I am sure he had to really tow the line. I have a feeling Eric, especially when he started planning for the massacre was probably extremely polite and responsible at home, as to not call any attention to himself.

Have you read eric and dylans diversion records? Those really give you a good look at what it was like at home and also you kind of see their personalities too.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Wow! I've never looked into the boys' Juvenile Diversion records. Just found them on Google. At a glance there's lots of cool information here. Thanks again!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you can find almost everything in the Columbine Master Archive below

sympathyforEandD wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Wow! I've never looked into the boys' Juvenile Diversion records. Just found them on Google. At a glance there's lots of cool information here. Thanks again!

in the diversion files you meet snobby and arrogant Dylan. That is always fun.

I haven't seen those either. No wonder this case gets people (me included) sucked into a vortex and often keeps me up at night because of small details that races through my mind every time I go to bed.

What was the poem that brooks wrote when he was little? “I will despair if Dylan says he’s not my best friend?” I think it’s from his book

From No Easy Answers:

I couldn't have asked for a better pal in grade school than Dylan Klebold. In fact, my mom still has a drawing of the two of us that I made in class; underneath it, I wrote in crayon, “ What scares me most is if Dylan does boast that he isn't my friend.”

sororityalpha wrote:

From No Easy Answers:

I couldn't have asked for a better pal in grade school than Dylan Klebold. In fact, my mom still has a drawing of the two of us that I made in class; underneath it, I wrote in crayon, “ What scares me most is if Dylan does boast that he isn't my friend.”

Thank you!

Do you think a teacher could have done something for Eric and Dylan? Probably not at the end but maybe if a caring and loving teacher had noticed something was starting to get wrong with them things could have changed? Or maybe I am very naive given that nor Eric's parents nor Dylan's parents noticed anything... I always wonder if teachers can have a real positive impact on children and teenagers.

Neah wrote:

Do you think a teacher could have done something for Eric and Dylan? Probably not at the end but maybe if a caring and loving teacher had noticed something was starting to get wrong with them things could have changed? Or maybe I am very naive given that nor Eric's parents nor Dylan's parents noticed anything... I always wonder if teachers can have a real positive impact on children and teenagers.

This is a good question. Because I think Sue talks about it a little bit in her book. With Eric he was always a good student even when he was planning the massacre he never faltered. His grades kept up and I think he had a really good relationship with Mr. Carruthers. He wrote about the arrest and how it affected him badly. And Mr. Carruthers wrote on the paper that he would definitely trust Eric.

With Dylan I think a lot of the teachers just got annoyed with him and didn’t see anything to really help. They just found him to have a bad attitude and that was about it. I think he went to his math teacher and asked if he could just study on his own and just show up on test days. I’m going to have to find the interview. Mrs. Kelley, the writing teacher, was concerned about the paper but then they kind of brushed it off. And I think Dylan’s computer teacher was worried about him when he hacked into the servers but then Dylan was able to tell everyone he was fine. So no one really pushed. I’m sure in hindsight they regret it and wish they did.

Back then too if you got good grades and you weren’t really a threat you could really slip under the radar. They came from good homes and I don’t think they were looked at as the troubled students. I think someone like Chris Morris would’ve been looked as being more trouble than them.

There is one moment that I’m thinking about that I wish I could’ve been a turning point for Dylan and that’s when he was with his I believe counselor waiting for his dad to show up and Dylan was complaining about things and really upset I wish somebody had brought him in to talk to him a little bit more and gained his trust.

I've got a very simple question but surprisingly I never asked myself about it before and the shooting in Brasil made me think about it:

Did Eric and Dylan remained together during the whole shooting, or did they sometimes seperate (even if they remained not far from each other)? How far have they been from each other during the shooting?

Neah wrote:

I've got a very simple question but surprisingly I never asked myself about it before and the shooting in Brasil made me think about it:

Did Eric and Dylan remained together during the whole shooting, or did they sometimes seperate (even if they remained not far from each other)? How far have they been from each other during the shooting?

I feel like except for the beginning they were pretty much together. According to Sue’s book and I think Cullens book they were apart and Eric had to find Dylan. I’m not sure exactly how accurate that is.


Though when was the Tim Klass thing? Eric wasn’t around for that.

Neah wrote:

I've got a very simple question but surprisingly I never asked myself about it before and the shooting in Brasil made me think about it:

Did Eric and Dylan remained together during the whole shooting, or did they sometimes seperate (even if they remained not far from each other)? How far have they been from each other during the shooting?

Not coming at you like I'm some expert, but because I've wondered about this and had days where I focused on it, it makes me want to answer. If others know otherwise, feel free to take me to task.

I don't think they were ever separate long at all. I doubt the hand signals were ever used. I think when it came to movement for the most part, Dylan followed Eric's lead while he played marine and told him to cover. I think the most they were ever apart was when Dylan went down the stairs at the beginning, when Dylan ran up to where near Dave Sanders was once he was shot, and maybe e. g. in the library when Eric was in between the bookshelves and Dylan over by the trophy case, or in the cafeteria when Eric is taking a drink and Dylan by the cafeteria bombs. Supposedly Dylan entered the library first, but Eric was not far behind. I guess there's the issue of where Dylan was during Eric's gunfight with police.

When Dylan enters the cafeteria i. e. 'checked on the bombs' at the beginning is probably the greatest distance they were ever apart. If you remove his very short time in the cafeteria at the start, I don't think they were ever more than the length of a hallway apart. They seemed to move as a team. Together when it starts. Together when they enter the school. Together in the library. Together as they roam the halls. Together on the cafeteria CCTV. Together when it ends. If either wanted to say shoot the other at point blank range, they probably had 100 chances. If they wanted to do something the other couldn't see them doing, they probably had one.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

I've got a very simple question but surprisingly I never asked myself about it before and the shooting in Brasil made me think about it:

Did Eric and Dylan remained together during the whole shooting, or did they sometimes seperate (even if they remained not far from each other)? How far have they been from each other during the shooting?

I feel like except for the beginning they were pretty much together. According to Sue’s book and I think Cullens book they were apart and Eric had to find Dylan. I’m not sure exactly how accurate that is.


Though when was the Tim Klass thing? Eric wasn’t around for that.

Yeah you mean Tim Kastle or whoever it is, with Dylan pointing a gun at him while he's in the ceiling or in a duct or whatever? I'm not sure I buy that. Not that he's lying but put me in that situation and I might well go omg there was this dust bunny I swear it was Dylan I was terrified. I certainly don't get when or where that was supposed to have happened.

cakeman wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

I've got a very simple question but surprisingly I never asked myself about it before and the shooting in Brasil made me think about it:

Did Eric and Dylan remained together during the whole shooting, or did they sometimes seperate (even if they remained not far from each other)? How far have they been from each other during the shooting?

I feel like except for the beginning they were pretty much together. According to Sue’s book and I think Cullens book they were apart and Eric had to find Dylan. I’m not sure exactly how accurate that is.


Though when was the Tim Klass thing? Eric wasn’t around for that.

Yeah you mean Tim Kastle or whoever it is, with Dylan pointing a gun at him while he's in the ceiling or in a duct or whatever? I'm not sure I buy that. Not that he's lying but put me in that situation and I might well go omg there was this dust bunny I swear it was Dylan I was terrified. I certainly don't get when or where that was supposed to have happened.

Yes!

I remember reading something about one or both of then entering the kitchen.

But I thought Tim said it was the bathroom...

Thank you both!

cakeman wrote:

If you remove his very short time in the cafeteria at the start, I don't think they were ever more than the length of a hallway ap

It is not far if we think about the distance between them, but maybe in their eyes it was quite a great distance, it musts be scary when you fear you can be attack on all sides at any moment.

Screamingophelia wrote:

cakeman wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

I've got a very simple question but surprisingly I never asked myself about it before and the shooting in Brasil made me think about it:

Did Eric and Dylan remained together during the whole shooting, or did they sometimes seperate (even if they remained not far from each other)? How far have they been from each other during the shooting?

I feel like except for the beginning they were pretty much together. According to Sue’s book and I think Cullens book they were apart and Eric had to find Dylan. I’m not sure exactly how accurate that is.


Though when was the Tim Klass thing? Eric wasn’t around for that.

Yeah you mean Tim Kastle or whoever it is, with Dylan pointing a gun at him while he's in the ceiling or in a duct or whatever? I'm not sure I buy that. Not that he's lying but put me in that situation and I might well go omg there was this dust bunny I swear it was Dylan I was terrified. I certainly don't get when or where that was supposed to have happened.

Yes!

I remember reading something about one or both of then entering the kitchen.

But I thought Tim said it was the bathroom...

The bathroom in the faculty lounge and the two bathrooms in the kitchen are located side by side, and Tim stated as he started crawling he knocked several ceiling tiles off in the kitchen bathroom, . When he reached the west wall, he looked back to the area over the kitchen bathroom, he observed someone staring and pointing his gun at him. In one report he says this person has shoulder length hair and he believed this person to be Klebold. They were good friends and played Fantasy Baseball with him.
Jankowski said  she heard loud male voices in the cafeteria around 40 minutes since the shooting started. It sounded as if they were right outside the door.  40 mins after the shooting would be around 12:00, during E&D's last visit to the cafeteria. On the CCTV footage we can see them coming from the faculty area heading towards the stairs.

So I guess all this happened around that time. Unsure if Dylan alone entered the kitchen. I need to check the timeline (yet) again.

Jankowski and Foss exposed themselves too a lot of pain for that short distance they managed to crawl. Foss could barely walk on his own as seen on the footage from the triage at S Yukon Ct.

All of them, including Kastle ended up running through the doors. There is only approx. 5-6 feet from the faculty door to the door leading to the outside, based on the diagram.