The small question thread Part 2.

The original small question thread is almost to its limit, so I'll be locking it and this will be the new thread. The old one will remain on the public board as an archive.

Post your Columbine "small questions" here.

Thank you Jenn!!

I have a small question. Does anyone remember if it was in Sue's Book or in an interview where she talks about how long it took to clean Dylan's room after the massacre? I seem to remember her saying it was a couple of years because whenever she cleaned his room she felt like she was erasing parts of him.

One more- do we have a copy of the interview Sues hair dresser did the night after?


I saw it, back in the day, which doesn’t help.

Was wanting to still comment on the last one.

Antarath wrote " Unsure if Dylan alone entered the kitchen."

I am pretty sure they both entered the kitchen if you watch the CCTV.

Neah wrote "It is not far if we think about the distance between them, but maybe in their eyes it was quite a great distance, it musts be scary when you fear you can be attack on all sides at any moment."

Yeah, I agree with that last part, they must have been very nervous for most of the massacre. Yet, they entered the library with confidence according to witnesses, and when people try to justify the 'roaming the halls' period they act like they knew they would never be attacked which seems absurd. Hence I feel their confidence in the library is because of the bombs, which they kept saying would explode, and their roaming the halls was to look for cops. That's really the biggest reason for both of those. Also most seem to note they got bored with killing students, but there's no way shooting lockers and such isn't more boring than that. Killing cops though, at least in their mind, would have been up a level, and we already know it seems part of the motive, and they took time out of the library massacre to shoot at cops almost from the beginning.

As for that first part, hard to know. If you mean any distance was nerve-racking given they might be jumped, I probably agree, hence they moved around as a team. If you mean any distance was great because they were teenagers, hard to know. From what I understand, the school looks a lot bigger on tv. I imagine the same with the library diagrams, etc. Then again, the younger you are the bigger things seem, and it does seem large for a high school. In other words, maybe so, then again maybe to us it seems like a greater distance. I imagine the library seems much smaller if you stood in it and walked the halls every day, say.

Also, I think Screaming thinks that last molotov cocktail was a timer? I didn't think so for a long time, but now I am inclined to agree. If it was about starting a fire or making their bodies unrecognizable, it seems they had gas cans in the cafeteria to use.  

And I wonder, were the Molotovs made with just gas and oil, or with napalm, or both? Only two worked, the last one and the one in the cafeteria. Did those two have different ingredients than the others? How else would you be confident that last one would work if you had been 1 for 8 (or whatever it was) before that?

Also, we seem to know e. g. when the concerts they attended were. Do we know when they watched NBK? It's days after the van incident, in February, when Dylan is talking about going NBK with some girl. It's April when Eric mentions going NBK. Was it say in March when they saw NBK together, and Dylan let Eric know about his fantasy? That's my best guess for when/why Eric became a part of the plan, and when it became serious and not a fantasy. Then again of course neither one might be talking about anything specific like striking the school at that point.

Did Sue speak to Dylan about him not bathing and not caring about his appearance? If so, how did he respond?

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Did Sue speak to Dylan about him not bathing and not caring about his appearance? If so, how did he respond?

In A Mothers Reckoning Sue said he was clean and he did his laundry. He just looked unkempt

I imagine he had regular teenager smell.... plus he smoked.

She and Tom bugged him to get a haircut hence why she convinced him to pull his hair back for prom. I, got one, support that decision for reasons unknown.

Screamingophelia wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Did Sue speak to Dylan about him not bathing and not caring about his appearance? If so, how did he respond?

In A Mothers Reckoning Sue said he was clean and he did his laundry. He just looked unkempt

I imagine he had regular teenager smell.... plus he smoked.

She and Tom bugged him to get a haircut hence why she convinced him to pull his hair back for prom. I, got one, support that decision for reasons unknown.

That's strange: I remember reading that on at least one occasion his hair appeared "matted", and that he'd stopped bathing. When he pops up at the end of the Hitmen for Hire video his hair is like slicked down with grease. I think he cared very little about how he looked towards the end of his life.

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

sympathyforEandD wrote:

Did Sue speak to Dylan about him not bathing and not caring about his appearance? If so, how did he respond?

In A Mothers Reckoning Sue said he was clean and he did his laundry. He just looked unkempt

I imagine he had regular teenager smell.... plus he smoked.

She and Tom bugged him to get a haircut hence why she convinced him to pull his hair back for prom. I, got one, support that decision for reasons unknown.

That's strange: I remember reading that on at least one occasion his hair appeared "matted", and that he'd stopped bathing. When he pops up at the end of the Hitmen for Hire video his hair is like slicked down with grease. I think he cared very little about how he looked towards the end of his life.

I know his hair was matted in that vid but as far as the bathing goes I trust Sue more than a random person at school..

Here’s an example. In high school I took showers every day but when I eat garlic the garlic would go through my pores and I would smell horribly it smelled like i didn’t bath... I ate garlic all the time...

Also my hair was very thick and coarse like Dylans and it would often look really greasy if I even went one day without washing it.

I do agree towards the end of the his life that he didn’t care about the way he looked anymore.

I think also people judged Dylan's cleanliness on the fact he appeared to wear the same clothes all the time. If he washed them after wearing no big deal. And if Sue said he did his laundry I believe her. No reason you can't wear the same clothes all the time as long as they are cleaned.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think also people judged Dylan's cleanliness on the fact he appeared to wear the same clothes all the time.  If he washed them after wearing no big deal.  And if Sue said he did his laundry I believe her.  No reason you can't wear the same clothes all the time as long as they are cleaned.

Yes!! That is a good point

In the 11k, did anyone witness or hear the suicides of Eric and Dylan?

Tesla101 wrote:

In the 11k, did anyone witness or hear the suicides of Eric and Dylan?

The only 2 in the library were Patrick and Lisa. Patrick was in and out of consciousness. He thought he heard coughing but that was all. Lisa has never publicly talked about what she heard or saw after they re-entered the library.

Tesla101 wrote:

In the 11k, did anyone witness or hear the suicides of Eric and Dylan?

No one saw as far as we know, the closest were Lisa K and Patrick but she was in and out of consciousness. Patrick heard Dylan dying, he was coughing on his own blood.

I thought as much. I assume they thought they had killed everyone in the library then. I would love to know what was said.

I guess it’s kinda irrelevant but I wondered, does anyone know what John Savage did immediately after he left the library? I was thinking this must have been 11.30-11.45. How could he not have confirmed the location and number of perpetrators to police? This, combined with solid 911 information, surely could’ve enabled them to go in earlier and at least trap them in? I just cannot get over the fact they didn’t enter until 3 pm.

Tesla101 wrote:

I guess it’s kinda irrelevant but I wondered, does anyone know what John Savage did immediately after he left the library? I was thinking this must have been 11.30-11.45. How could he not have confirmed the location and number of perpetrators to police? This, combined with solid 911 information, surely could’ve enabled them to go in earlier and at least trap them in? I just cannot get over the fact they didn’t enter until 3 pm.

I assume it’s in his 11k interview.

There was so much going on and honestly John was just another student giving them info on that day...it would be a while before investigators could peace together a narrative.

Tesla101 wrote:

I guess it’s kinda irrelevant but I wondered, does anyone know what John Savage did immediately after he left the library? I was thinking this must have been 11.30-11.45. How could he not have confirmed the location and number of perpetrators to police? This, combined with solid 911 information, surely could’ve enabled them to go in earlier and at least trap them in? I just cannot get over the fact they didn’t enter until 3 pm.

I remember him mentioning taking a path outside the school which did not put him in view of the library, in case they "changed their minds". Fair point why he wasn't waving his arms to police though. I guess by that point there had already been several people fleeing and questioned.

Does anyone know why Jeanna Park’s testimony in the 11k is so short compared to the others? She seemed to recall a lot but they don’t seem to have included the follow up statement like they have with the others, only the initial summary.

Tesla101 wrote:

Does anyone know why Jeanna Park’s testimony in the 11k is so short compared to the others? She seemed to recall a lot but they don’t seem to have included the follow up statement like they have with the others, only the initial summary.

Her parents didn't want their girls talking to police, presumably because they wanted to spare them from reliving it all over again.
pg. 507 "he had been notified by Detective Moomaw with the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office that during contacts he had with the Park family, it was made clear the parents (specifically the father), did not want his daughters interviewed. As of this date, Detective Moomaw had been unsuccessful in conducting an interview with Kathy Park."
But- when the families were allowed to tour the library, the Park's were preoccupied with Jeanna at the table where she hid and Kathy wanted to go over to where she was hiding. An IO went with her and took that opportunity to question Kathy. Sneaky.
Kathy's statement is pretty detailed.

thelmar wrote:

Tesla101 wrote:

Does anyone know why Jeanna Park’s testimony in the 11k is so short compared to the others? She seemed to recall a lot but they don’t seem to have included the follow up statement like they have with the others, only the initial summary.

Her parents didn't want their girls talking to police, presumably because they wanted to spare them from reliving it all over again.
pg. 507 "he had been notified by Detective Moomaw with the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office that during contacts he had with the Park family, it was made clear the parents (specifically the father), did not want his daughters interviewed. As of this date, Detective Moomaw had been unsuccessful in conducting an interview with Kathy Park."
But- when the families were allowed to tour the library, the Park's were preoccupied with Jeanna at the table where she hid and Kathy wanted to go over to where she was hiding. An IO went with her and took that opportunity to question Kathy. Sneaky.
Kathy's statement is pretty detailed.

Where was Kathy?

Under Table 15 with Pat Ireland, Makai Hall, and Dan Steepleton.

Do current students have 4/20 off every year if it occurs during the week? Somebody from the school stated this

Also they said teachers that experienced the shooting still work there?

joebox97 wrote:

Do current students have 4/20 off every year if it occurs during the week? Somebody from the school stated this

Also they said teachers that experienced the shooting still work there?

Yes and yes

I am pretty sure that the teacher that was interviewed for the documentary is still there.

Screamingophelia wrote:

joebox97 wrote:

Do current students have 4/20 off every year if it occurs during the week? Somebody from the school stated this

Also they said teachers that experienced the shooting still work there?

Yes and yes

I am pretty sure that the teacher that was interviewed for the documentary is still there.

Thank you Screamingophelia! Guess I haven't learned everything

You’re welcome, I’m still learning I just saw something today that I never knew

There was a thread a while back with a ton of 911 calls and police dispatch recordings.

Did we ever hear the one from the back room in the cafeteria? I am watching an interview with Sam Granillo and he is talking about Dylan or Eric trying to get in and how someone in the room was on the phone with the police?

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Do we know if Eric Harris discovered Rammstein thanks to the movie Lost Highway?

I couldn't find any thing related to him and Rammstein (T-shirts, things he wrote) that would have been pre-Lost Highway (1997) but I may have missed something.

Wikipedia wrote:

Rammstein's first major boost in popularity outside Germany came when music director Trent Reznor chose two Rammstein songs, "Heirate mich" and "Rammstein", for David Lynch's film Lost Highway.

Rammstein's first album Herzeleid was apparently release on 24 November 1998 in North America, I don't know if their second album Sehnshucht (1997) was released before the debut album in the USA.

Do you think it would have been possible that given that he was interested in his kind of music he knew Rammstein before the general public and therefore before Lost Highway?

Screamingophelia wrote:

There was a thread a while back with a ton of 911 calls and police dispatch recordings.

Did we ever hear the one from the back room in the cafeteria? I am watching an interview with Sam Granillo and he is talking about Dylan or Eric trying to get in and how someone in the room was on the phone with the police?

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Are you referencing Matt Depew's call while barricaded inside with the others?

That was a very long call.

In the 911 Tapes you only hear John Lietz's side of the call. You don't directly hear Matt Depew talking in the storage room to the 911 dispacher so you can't hear what is happening, only third party.

sororityalpha wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

There was a thread a while back with a ton of 911 calls and police dispatch recordings.

Did we ever hear the one from the back room in the cafeteria? I am watching an interview with Sam Granillo and he is talking about Dylan or Eric trying to get in and how someone in the room was on the phone with the police?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Are you referencing Matt Depew's call while barricaded inside with the others?

That was a very long call.

In the 911 Tapes you only hear John Lietz's side of the call. You don't directly hear Matt Depew talking in the storage room to the 911 dispacher so you can't hear what is happening, only third party.

Yes, thanks for the info!!

Was there a girl named Heather, I think she was in the library, who knew Kevin Harris? Wasn’t there a story that she went to visit him after? And he asked her “was that really my brother?”

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Sorry, me again!

I was delving into the 11k again today and came across an old research message board and I found a reference to an email Dustin Gorton sent that was "interesting" has anyone ever read this email or know what this is all about?

Cate: Wed, 21 Apr 199917:32:34 -0600
Subject Please send your prayers!
Dear friends, relatives, and other aquiantences
First to my friends that had to live through that hell
yesterday. .....I want to let you know that I am okay and extremely
pleased thatyou listened to me. I would also like to thank the
psyco nutcase with a dish rag on his head for going back for our
friends...
Thanks Bret! I would also like to thank the rest of you for listening to
me in a time when you and I had no idea what was going on. I want to
tell you that I was only scared at three points yesterday. (1) When we
were under the table and everyone started running away. {2) When we
were in the bathrooms and store rooms hearing things go on above us
and (3) When Bret was not with the group that I escorted out of the hellish
environment. I would like to thank all of you who were there listening to
me give you directions. I was gladly willing to lay down my life to save
yours and you recognized it I want to thank you for staying low and
grasping onto my every word. I am seriously afriad that if I
hadn't been there you would have all run up those stairs and
been shot by my friends that I thought I knew. You all know
me and I am more grateful to you for listening than anything
else! If you hadn't listened and took off
running it could easily have been one of you still laying in the school
at this hour. There isn't much I can take credit for or am willing to
take credit for...except that I am fortunate because I have you all
still here with me! The hell has only begun. l am hurt. I am really
hurt! I still cannot comprehend that my friends were physically capable
of coming in and doing this to sooooo many others. I am sorry and If
anyone needs to talk please give me a phone call or if you want to hear
me talk .. call please!

Next to my friends and e-mail aquaitances. l am really glad to
hear so many of you express your concern to us here at Columbine! My
friends are not the “evil” people that they make them out to be on
television...there ls no “trenchcoat” posse. I would like to inform you
that I am extremely sorry for the tradgedy that happened here. I want
you all to pray for Dylan and Eric also. They were excellent
individuals. I am sorry for what they have done but my heart and prayers
go with them just as equally as they go with the victims that were slain
and injured yesterday afternoon. I hope that you all hold us near to
your hearts and talk about this without predjudice twoard Eric andDylan

Thank you!!

And I know it is been 20 years and is probably not an active number anymore but is there anyway to edit your post to redact the email addresses and phone numbers?

Neah wrote:

Do we know if Eric Harris discovered Rammstein thanks to the movie Lost Highway?

I couldn't find any thing related to him and Rammstein (T-shirts, things he wrote) that would have been pre-Lost Highway (1997) but I may have missed something.

Wikipedia wrote:

Rammstein's first major boost in popularity outside Germany came when music director Trent Reznor chose two Rammstein songs, "Heirate mich" and "Rammstein", for David Lynch's film Lost Highway.

Rammstein's first album Herzeleid was apparently release on 24 November 1998 in North America, I don't know if their second album Sehnshucht (1997) was released before the debut album in the USA.

Do you think it would have been possible that given that he was interested in his kind of music he knew Rammstein before the general public and therefore before Lost Highway?

Up, in case someone here knows.

Is there only the one instance in the 11k The talk about Eric or Dylan wearing any kind of Nazi paraphernalia. That whole thing about Dylan Drawig a swatzika on his cheek during spirit week?

I still maintain that if that really happened one of his friends would’ve asked what the hell he was doing. There is an interview I saw with Sue recently and she asked Nate about all that stuff and Nate says it only happened during bowling and it was a complete joke. People are just being dumb.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Is there only the one instance in the 11k The talk about Eric or Dylan wearing any kind of Nazi  paraphernalia. That whole thing about Dylan Drawig a swatzika on his cheek during spirit week?

I still maintain that if that really happened one of his friends would’ve asked what the hell he was doing. There is an interview I saw with Sue recently and she asked Nate about all that stuff and Nate says it only happened  during bowling and it was a complete joke. People are just being dumb.

I believe a couple people said that the TCM would make Nazi gestures as well but obv those kids didn't really know the TCM so it was probably more gossip or them wanting to believe it

There's the reference to the swastika on the knife in the Basement Tapes, obviously. Then there's Eric's Nazi report, Dylan's Manson report, Eric saying how cool the Nazis were in the journal, and uploading "Nazi paraphernalia" and the photo of Manson to the school server on I think the day before the massacre. I think they would roll their eyes at people desperate to paint them as good bois who dindu no nazi. Most "nazis" don't wear "nazi paraphernalia".  The swastika on the face for spirit week is icing, and hilarious.

Neah wrote:

Neah wrote:

Do we know if Eric Harris discovered Rammstein thanks to the movie Lost Highway?

I couldn't find any thing related to him and Rammstein (T-shirts, things he wrote) that would have been pre-Lost Highway (1997) but I may have missed something.

Wikipedia wrote:

Rammstein's first major boost in popularity outside Germany came when music director Trent Reznor chose two Rammstein songs, "Heirate mich" and "Rammstein", for David Lynch's film Lost Highway.

Rammstein's first album Herzeleid was apparently release on 24 November 1998 in North America, I don't know if their second album Sehnshucht (1997) was released before the debut album in the USA.

Do you think it would have been possible that given that he was interested in his kind of music he knew Rammstein before the general public and therefore before Lost Highway?

Up, in case someone here knows.

I don't know, but I would assume he found them from Lost Highway like everybody else. He listed it among his favorite movies and Dylan referenced it a lot. I suspect Wolfenstein 3D was his first foray into German (and da ebul Nazis). Sehnsucht was released first for sure though. See RammWiki.

Dude,

It’s getting old really quickly we have asked you to knock it off. Stop putting words in my mouth and stop putting words in other peoples mouths. When did I say they were good boys who were not into Nazis. I was just asking for a specific references, I wanted to learn more. Because off the top of my head I only thought of that one instance. You know you can answer questions without being a mean
person.

I still maintain Eric had far more of an interest than Dylan.

And guess what, his mother and two of his very best friends at the time were surprised  people are calling them Nazis as well because it didn’t make sense to them. So it’s not just people who are researching... it’s people who actually knew them and went to school with them. Not you. You didn’t know them or go to school with them. Actual honest to God people who knew them as every day kids.

"we have asked you to knock it off" Yeah sorry for not having your opinions (coincidentally everybody elses) instead of mine.

"You know you can answer questions without being a mean person" By your standards I literally can't.

"Stop putting words in my mouth and stop putting words in other peoples mouth" Just lol at claiming I ever did this."Characterizing what you said in a way that makes you feel bad" is not "quoting you incorrectly".

"And guess what, his mother" The question was posed as "Eric or Dylan"

"Not you. You didn’t know them or go to school with them." As for "putting words in my mouth", I never claimed I did. If only I had an understanding at the level of tv and tabloids like the majority of people here, I could have.  I wonder how surprised they were by the massacre, and how many would want their mother to relay their beliefs.

Something mildly interesting I noticed about Robyn's 11k interview. I never realized she met Dylan so early in HS since she called him a "rough guy with a warm heart" I thought she met him their junior year, but she said 1995 which was Freshman year. Dylan was still known as a pretty sweet and awkward kid then as far as I remember.

Odd question. Do you all remember Erics AOL profile and he had a quote that said “it’s always something” that’s a quote from Gilda Radner I believe, but I’m trying to figure out if Eric would have that in his profile.. so does the line also show up somewhere else famously?

I always thought “it’s merely a flesh wound” was from Monty Python but I think it’s from something else too ...doom or a movie?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Odd question. Do you all remember Erics AOL profile and he had a quote that said “it’s always something” that’s a quote from Gilda Radner I believe, but I’m trying to figure out if Eric would have that in his profile.. so does the line also show up somewhere  else famously?

I always thought “it’s merely a flesh wound” was from Monty Python but I think it’s from something else too ...doom or a movie?

I definitely remember it from Monty Python.

This page attributes the quote to being mentioned in a few video games. Though, I don't think any of them were released in time for Eric and Dylan to play them.

Not a question, just a shaking my head observation.

In reading through the police statements, when the kids are telling the police what websites they go to, what their usernames or passwords are, etc., I sometimes wonder what was going through the heads of the officer and the witness in those moments.

For example, in Tim Kastle's statement, he tells the officer of Chad Laughlin's fantasy baseball site. The url was  
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And Kastle's screen name was "saltysquirts99" and his password was "wackit"

Now forever memorialized in print...

Did Cassie's brother go to Columbine? Was he at school that day?

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Screamingophelia wrote:

Did Cassie's brother go to Columbine? Was he at school that day?

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According to "She Said Yes", Chris did go to Columbine and was there that day. I don't know the details of where he was when the attack occurred, as I don't recall his police statement. But in the book Misty writes that had fled to a neighbor's home near the high school and got home in the early afternoon.

Thank you!

Another question I have. You know how Sue & Tom and the victims families were invited to go through the evidence presentation and view the Basement Tapes etc.. is that something that is done in all high profile crimes? Was anything similar done for Virginia Tech or Parkland?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Thank you!

Another question I have. You know how Sue & Tom and the victims families were invited to go through the evidence presentation and view the Basement Tapes etc.. is that something that is done in all high profile crimes? Was anything similar done for Virginia Tech or Parkland?

That's a very good question that I'd also like to know the question for, particularly if something similar happened after Sandy Hook.

Hey, does someone know which word comes after "love=" and the one between "free shit" and "weapons"?

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I think the rest is: "love=[?], techno mus, cars & driving, pussys gettin it, free shit, [?], weapons, explosives (for fags)"

I dunno if I misread something

ExCentro wrote:

Hey, does someone know which word comes after "love=" and the one between "free shit" and "weapons"?

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I think the rest is: "love=[?], techno mus, cars & driving, pussys gettin it, free shit, [?], weapons, explosives (for fags)"

I dunno if I misread something

I can't read the first one but I believe that the second one might say "warez".

"Warez" I could see given the context of coming after "free shit." Judging by the w in "weapons" it is probably the case.