If E & D didn't die

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Wumselito wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Eric may learn as well that his friendship with Dylan wasn't as strong as he thought? That would probably make him pretty sad and angry. I listened to Sue's to ted talk again today and she called Eric controlling and now im hindsight seems to see the issues with their friendship.

I'm kind of torn about what Sue says sometimes.
On one hand she's Dylan's Mom, so she does know more than any single one of us. On the other hand I can't help but take anything she says about Eric with a grain of salt precisely because Dylan is her son and I feel like she's still holding onto the Eric the evil mastermind manipulator extraordinaire, Dylan the depressed follower narrative despite her saying she's not.

I can agree with this.  Also I am sure that Sue herself is sometimes torn and confused about the way she feels when faced with certain facts of the case and Dylan's obvious involvement.

I can as well, I think she still thinks of it as his involvement, not as part of the whole plan. He just wanted to die and wanted to take people down with him.

When Dylan finally told her he was getting angry she backed off.

Screamingophelia wrote:

If they were captured before they killed themselves and there was a trial, I wonder what evidence would be open to the public? More crime scene photos? Basement Tapes? Would the trial be covered like OJ Simpsons was? I assume we'd hear more from the Harris's.

I think the boys would try to  act like perfect gentlemen in court to be honest, I doubt there'd be shenanigans like I think TJ Lane?

Well I'm just now hearing about TJ Lane and I feel like Eric and Dylan would be totally different from how TJ acted in court. I think both Eric and Dylan would be more fearful as to what they're about to face (which would be prison time), so I think even if it were unreal, I think they would put on a display of remorse and sorrow - and then again, perhaps their display of remorse and sorrow would be real.

Also after watching A&E's 60 Days In, um, I think after their first week in prison, Dylan would commit suicide immediately and Eric, I feel it would take some emotional and mental breaking down in him but after being attacked a few times, he would join Dylan in death. I'm currently writing a fan-fiction story on what it would've been like had Eric and Dylan survived and went to court/trial and went to prison, how their time would be in prison. (if you want to call it that, although I'm not a fan)

I do wonder about the other outcomes, assuming that both didn't commit suicide. For instance, what would've happened if Dylan (somehow, despite everything) didn't commit suicide after Eric did, and turned himself in to police? Given Dylan's personality, is any aspect of that realistic?

I think Dylan would have definitely went through with it and killed himself because he wanted to die from the very beginning. I think it would have been a better chance of them being caught by police right before they 'killed themselves', if that had of happened and they had gotten caught, I think that would've been the way they would've gotten caught.

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I often wonder if they had lived what the "fandom" would be like and how different it might be. I honestly think them dying added to the mystery of it and gives them more fan girls today.

Certainly it does.  Somebody dies, they're "lost forever," and some girl's wish to have "saved" them can never come true.  

Think how badly people want Nick Drake live footage to turn up, because it never happened during his lifetime that they know of.  And if they did have it it probably wouldn't really be anything special.

I'm late on this, but Pink Moon is one of my favourite albums ever

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

You make some good points.

Just makes me think what a terrifying, short time it must have been for Dylan in between his and Eric's suicides. Nothing could have prepared him for that. Seeing his best friend shoot himself. Realizing in that brief moment, he was all alone. There was no going back.

That's actually one of the scariest things to me.

Littlelo wrote:

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

You make some good points.

Just makes me think what a terrifying, short time it must have been for Dylan in between his and Eric's suicides. Nothing could have prepared him for that. Seeing his best friend shoot himself. Realizing in that brief moment, he was all alone. There was no going back.

That's actually one of the scariest things to me.

By then their lives were so intertwined too. Suddenly they didn’t even have each other

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

You make some good points.

Just makes me think what a terrifying, short time it must have been for Dylan in between his and Eric's suicides. Nothing could have prepared him for that. Seeing his best friend shoot himself. Realizing in that brief moment, he was all alone. There was no going back.

That's actually one of the scariest things to me.

By then their lives were so intertwined too. Suddenly they didn’t even have each other

It's so tragic. So sad thinking of how unnecessary every death was that day.

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

I get the feeling that Dylan was nervous about dying. Like he wasn't sure if it was the right choice or not.

QuestionMark wrote:

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

I get the feeling that Dylan was nervous about dying. Like he wasn't sure if it was the right choice or not.

Despite all of Eric's bravado he may have even been more suicidal than Dylan. He wasn't afraid, Dylan was.. I think Dylan had hope for a while that things could change, they didn't and he got someone who would do NBK with him. I still think it has to fuck with his friend and families heads that the boys not only were willing to kill together but die together... think about the people you would actually DIE for and with..

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

I get the feeling that Dylan was nervous about dying. Like he wasn't sure if it was the right choice or not.

Despite all of Eric's bravado he may have even been more suicidal than Dylan. He wasn't afraid, Dylan was.. I think Dylan had hope for a while that things could change, they didn't and he got someone who would do NBK with him. I still think it has to fuck with his friend and families heads that the boys not only were willing to kill together but die together... think about the people you would actually DIE for and with..

This is a major factor in my interest in Columbine - not only did Eric and Dylan want to cause others to die, but agreed to also die during NBK. That is so unusual.

spinvault wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

I get the feeling that Dylan was nervous about dying. Like he wasn't sure if it was the right choice or not.

Despite all of Eric's bravado he may have even been more suicidal than Dylan. He wasn't afraid, Dylan was.. I think Dylan had hope for a while that things could change, they didn't and he got someone who would do NBK with him. I still think it has to fuck with his friend and families heads that the boys not only were willing to kill together but die together... think about the people you would actually DIE for and with..

This is a major factor in my interest in Columbine - not only did Eric and Dylan want to cause others to die, but agreed to also die during NBK. That is so unusual.

It's been one of mine too. I have been interested since day one, granted (I know I am repeating myself) I did take about 10/15 years off from research, with the occasional check in but yea, their friendship is fascinating to me.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Despite all of Eric's bravado he may have even been more suicidal than Dylan. 

In a certain sense I think that this was part of his bravado, in the sense that he wasn't scared to die.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Despite all of Eric's bravado he may have even been more suicidal than Dylan. 

In a certain sense I think that this was part of his bravado, in the sense that he wasn't scared to die.

It does seem strange to me, maybe because I don't have a lot of knowledge about suicide, but Eric wanted everyone to know how superior he was to them from his journal writings. He called himself a god. Why would he then end his life on the same day in the same room as his victims who were "beneath" him in his mind? What's the thought process behind having to die too?

Littlelo wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Despite all of Eric's bravado he may have even been more suicidal than Dylan. 

In a certain sense I think that this was part of his bravado, in the sense that he wasn't scared to die.

It does seem strange to me, maybe because I don't have a lot of knowledge about suicide, but Eric wanted everyone to know how superior he was to them from his journal writings. He called himself a god. Why would he then end his life on the same day in the same room as his victims who were "beneath" him in his mind? What's the thought process behind having to die too?

That's a good discussion. It also brings me back to the whole who said 'are you still with me, are we still doing this" which Lisa K said she heard when they came into the library the second time.

Eric talked about his impending death in the BT, but Dylan screamed it from the rooftops that day.

I can get behind why the chose the library, since it was near the big windows where cops were but I'm not sure why the decided to die there.

I find it interesting that Eric died first too.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Despite all of Eric's bravado he may have even been more suicidal than Dylan. 

In a certain sense I think that this was part of his bravado, in the sense that he wasn't scared to die.

It does seem strange to me, maybe because I don't have a lot of knowledge about suicide, but Eric wanted everyone to know how superior he was to them from his journal writings. He called himself a god. Why would he then end his life on the same day in the same room as his victims who were "beneath" him in his mind? What's the thought process behind having to die too?

That's a good discussion. It also brings me back to the whole who said 'are you still with me, are we still doing this" which Lisa K said she heard when they came into the library the second time.

Eric talked about his impending death in the BT, but Dylan screamed it from the rooftops that day.

I can get behind why the chose the library, since it was near the big windows where cops were but I'm not sure why the decided to die there.

I find it interesting that Eric died first too.

If only we knew who said that. I am so curious. It would say a lot about their dynamic.

  

MrHorror93700 wrote:

I always wondered what would happen if eric had betrayed dylan:

●1 Eric ties/attaches Dylan (to prevent him from committing suicide)

●2 Eric commits suicide

●3 Dylan is alone, then the police capture him ...

That would be pretty messed up. I don't think either would have done something like that. But if it did happen, I'm sure Eric would be blamed as the mastermind since he wouldn't be alive to defend himself and Dylan would need some kind of excuse (if he chose to defend himself in the aftermath).

MrHorror93700 wrote:

I always wondered what would happen if eric had betrayed dylan:

●1 Eric ties/attaches Dylan (to prevent him from committing suicide)

●2 Eric commits suicide

●3 Dylan is alone, then the police capture him ...

That would be an interesting concept. As I think Dylan needed Eric and NBK to be able to commit suicide. But either way I think Dylan would have found some way to kill himself. It may have taken him a little time to work up the nerve to do it, but eventually he would have done it. Same if he was captured after NBK, he would have found a way to die.

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safest and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

I agree with this. In my opinion there was no way Eric would have backed away from his suicide. He knew it was going to be his last rebellious act. If anyone could have had the capability of backing out it would be Dylan. He had talked of death and his own suicide for years. Yet to our knowledge never attempted it. I think after Eric killed himself, Dylan knew it was now or never and pulled the trigger.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safer st and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

I agree with this. In my opinion there was no way Eric would have backed away from his suicide. He knew it was going to be his last rebellious act.  If anyone could have had the capability of backing out it would be Dylan. He had talked of death and his own suicide for years. Yet to our knowledge never attempted it.  I think after Eric killed himself, Dylan knew it was now or never and pulled the trigger.

I’d assume we’d know about Dylan’s Suicide attempt(s) from Sue.

I agree, once Eric pulled the trigger Dylan realized he had to do it.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but is there any reason he lit a Molotov cocktail? Was it maybe to try to set the library on fire?

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

MalonsMilk wrote:

I think Eric would actually be the first one to go. In real life, despite all of Dylan's lamentations on wanting to die, it was Eric that killed himself first and that showed a lot about both the boy's personalities.

When Eric said he was going to do something, he did it. I doubt he would have wanted to go to prison which would essentially be living in a Columbine-like world being insulted and bullied forever so he would've offed himself pretty quick. Dylan would waiver and go into depressions and then eventually I think he would top himself. Dylan was always the dreamer never the dooer, I'm pretty sure he wavered before shooting himself in the head in the library before he realised it was the safer st and most sensible option for him.

Just my thoughts.

I agree with this. In my opinion there was no way Eric would have backed away from his suicide. He knew it was going to be his last rebellious act.  If anyone could have had the capability of backing out it would be Dylan. He had talked of death and his own suicide for years. Yet to our knowledge never attempted it.  I think after Eric killed himself, Dylan knew it was now or never and pulled the trigger.

I’d assume we’d know about Dylan’s Suicide attempt(s) from Sue.

I agree, once Eric pulled the trigger Dylan realized he had to do it.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but is there any reason he lit a Molotov cocktail? Was it maybe to try to set the library on fire?

I think it can be chalked up as a last "F*CK YOU!", or that is how I always took it. Whether he intended to try to burn the library down or maybe just his and Eric's bodies is not known. But people have their own opinions about that last act.

Littlelo wrote:

He called himself a god. Why would he then end his life on the same day in the same room as his victims who were "beneath" him in his mind? What's the thought process behind having to die too?

I think he went to the library to take a couple of shots at the police. When the cops didn't kill him he just decided to die right then and there.

The reason he decided he had to die along with his victims is pretty simple, he didn't want to go to prison.

QuestionMark wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

He called himself a god. Why would he then end his life on the same day in the same room as his victims who were "beneath" him in his mind? What's the thought process behind having to die too?

I think he went to the library to take a couple of shots at the police. When the cops didn't kill him he just decided to die right then and there.

The reason he decided he had to die along with his victims is pretty simple, he didn't want to go to prison.

I've always been conflicted as to how exactly he wanted to die. Because at times it seemed like he wanted to be killed by police fire, but he also seemed ok with the idea of taking his own life, which was the ultimate control. If Eric 100% wanted the police to kill him he could have made it happen. I guess he didn't want to take a chance and get caught alive.

Littlelo wrote:

I've always been conflicted as to how exactly he wanted to die. Because at times it seemed like he wanted to be killed by police fire, but he also seemed ok with the idea of taking his own life, which was the ultimate control. If Eric 100% wanted the police to kill him he could have made it happen. I guess he didn't want to take a chance and get caught alive.

Agreed. I think he didn't care how he died, but didn't really want to risk getting caught either. Eric wanted to be in control of his death, which is probably why he did decide to kill himself rather then try for a suicide by cop type situation.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I've always been conflicted as to how exactly he wanted to die. Because at times it seemed like he wanted to be killed by police fire, but he also seemed ok with the idea of taking his own life, which was the ultimate control. If Eric 100% wanted the police to kill him he could have made it happen. I guess he didn't want to take a chance and get caught alive.

Agreed. I think he didn't care how he died, but didn't really want to risk getting caught either. Eric wanted to be in control of his death, which is probably why he did decide to kill himself rather then try for a suicide by cop type situation.

It does make me wonder if Eric and/or Dylan tried to leave the school if the cops or Swat would shoot to kill them or wound them so they could be arrested? Eric put a lot of money on the fact that the cops would kill them. I have to agree that committing suicide would be the ultimate control.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I've always been conflicted as to how exactly he wanted to die. Because at times it seemed like he wanted to be killed by police fire, but he also seemed ok with the idea of taking his own life, which was the ultimate control. If Eric 100% wanted the police to kill him he could have made it happen. I guess he didn't want to take a chance and get caught alive.

Agreed. I think he didn't care how he died, but didn't really want to risk getting caught either. Eric wanted to be in control of his death, which is probably why he did decide to kill himself rather then try for a suicide by cop type situation.

It does make me wonder if Eric and/or Dylan tried to leave the school if the cops or Swat would shoot to kill them or wound them so they could be arrested? Eric put a lot of money on the fact that the cops would kill them. I have to agree that committing suicide would be the ultimate control.

Good question. I think if they left the school and were coming for the police with weapons drawn they may have been killed. But if they simply tried to flee and make their escape, the police could have tried to shoot them to incapacitate them instead.

Littlelo wrote:

I've always been conflicted as to how exactly he wanted to die. Because at times it seemed like he wanted to be killed by police fire, but he also seemed ok with the idea of taking his own life, which was the ultimate control. If Eric 100% wanted the police to kill him he could have made it happen. I guess he didn't want to take a chance and get caught alive.

A shotgun blast through the roof of your mouth is also a lot quicker and less potentially painful then taking a few rounds to the chest.

I’m still not sure why Dylan chose his temple. I’ve read conflicting reports on if he felt anything for those several minutes or if he was brain dead

Screamingophelia wrote:

I’m still not sure why Dylan chose his temple. I’ve read conflicting reports on if he felt anything for those several minutes or if he was brain dead

I would say that he had saw it in a movie somewhere, and thought it would do the job instantly.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I’m still not sure why Dylan chose his temple. I’ve read conflicting reports on if he felt anything for those several minutes or if he was brain dead

I would say that he had saw it in a movie somewhere, and thought it would do the job instantly.

That's the most likely reason. He was certainly acting like he was a deranged killer in a movie.

His "Die Mother fuckers" line in the library.. if one believes the transcripts. I only hear him go hahaha, shut the fuck up (to Val) and Everybody get up now on the 911 call.