Tim Walsh, no records of him found anywhere

As public service your record is always visible to the people out there when you work for the government

But you can't find any information on this guy other than that one night in Columbine...why?

Bump.

Bump.

Interesting, althiugh i have no idea about US stuff.

Certainly it wouldn't be easy to find any information, especially perosnal data, on some random Polish policeman.

"He started with JCSO in 1992, spent 2 years working in the jail, 2 years working in court security and 3 years as a patrol deputy. He left JCSO in 1999 to pursue a career in real estate development."

First Name TIMOTHY
Middle Name SCOTT
Last Name WALSH
License Name Broker
License Level Independent Broker
License Number IA40029043
Status Inactive
Phone Number
License Expires on 08/13/2017
Last Changed Date 01/06/2014
Address
City HIGHLANDS RANCH
State CO
Zip Code 80130

No offense, but you didn't try very hard ... I only took me five minutes to find all of this stuff.

Interesting...

How could he have left the department though if I saw one article stating he was a Deputy in Feb '06? Besides that it is the only thing I saw of him

Thanks

From jail guard through real estate development and now a broker?

Fuck, America relaly is teh land of opportunity.

I need to migrate. Not that anyone will let me get a visa. Damn you Obama, why don't you just let all EU citizens enter without a fucking visa?

Sabratha wrote:

From jail guard through real estate development and now a broker?

Fuck, America relaly is teh land of opportunity.

I need to migrate. Not that anyone will let me get a visa. Damn you Obama, why don't you just let all EU citizens enter without a fucking visa?

Poor wages and no health care, why would you want to leave Europe?

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

From jail guard through real estate development and now a broker?

Fuck, America relaly is teh land of opportunity.

I need to migrate. Not that anyone will let me get a visa. Damn you Obama, why don't you just let all EU citizens enter without a fucking visa?

Poor wages and no health care, why would you want to leave Europe?

Europe is boring ... life is safe and predictable.

In America you can get shot anytime and anywhere.

We call it "winnowing the herd" ... it keeps the population in check.

European pansies talk about overpopulation ... but red-blooded Americans do something about it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sabratha wrote:

From jail guard through real estate development and now a broker?

Fuck, America relaly is teh land of opportunity.

I need to migrate. Not that anyone will let me get a visa. Damn you Obama, why don't you just let all EU citizens enter without a fucking visa?

Have you ever seen Glengarry Glen Ross? It takes place in a real-estate sales office.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

From jail guard through real estate development and now a broker?

Fuck, America relaly is teh land of opportunity.

I need to migrate. Not that anyone will let me get a visa. Damn you Obama, why don't you just let all EU citizens enter without a fucking visa?

Poor wages and no health care, why would you want to leave Europe?

Wages and healthcare? Poland has one of the worst and elast effecive health care systemes in Europe:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Even if you don't like the healthcare system here, you are forced to pay taxes even if you don't use the system and use only private halthcare (taht's what most rich people do).

Wages? Average USA monthly wage is over 2000 Euro (precise estimates vary). Average Polish monthly wage is equivalent to 730 Euro. Go fish.

Any other questions?

Quote :

Poor wages and no health care, why would you want to leave Europe?

USA in comparison with south and east Europe seems as a land of freedom Socialism slowly kills European Union.

Sabratha wrote:

Wages and healthcare? Poland has one of the worst and elast effecive health care systemes in Europe:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Even if you don't like the healthcare system here, you are forced to pay taxes even if you don't use the system and use only private halthcare (taht's what most rich people do).

Wages? Average USA monthly wage is over 2000 Euro (precise estimates vary). Average Polish monthly wage is equivalent to 730 Euro. Go fish.

Any other questions?

Ah, didn't know it was that bad there. I keep thinking Europe is like Sweden.

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Wages and healthcare? Poland has one of the worst and elast effecive health care systemes in Europe:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Even if you don't like the healthcare system here, you are forced to pay taxes even if you don't use the system and use only private halthcare (taht's what most rich people do).

Wages? Average USA monthly wage is over 2000 Euro (precise estimates vary). Average Polish monthly wage is equivalent to 730 Euro. Go fish.

Any other questions?

Ah, didn't know it was that bad there. I keep thinking Europe is like Sweden.

That's what they want you to think.

USA! USA! USA!

Our white trash is better than theirs:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

LPorter101 wrote:

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

Wages and healthcare? Poland has one of the worst and elast effecive health care systemes in Europe:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Even if you don't like the healthcare system here, you are forced to pay taxes even if you don't use the system and use only private halthcare (taht's what most rich people do).

Wages? Average USA monthly wage is over 2000 Euro (precise estimates vary). Average Polish monthly wage is equivalent to 730 Euro. Go fish.

Any other questions?

Ah, didn't know it was that bad there. I keep thinking Europe is like Sweden.

That's what they want you to think.

USA! USA! USA!

Our white trash is better than theirs:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Our white trash has less drug issues, more alcochol issues, is poorer but more tough than your guys. Also we have less guns, more baseball bats ;)

USA is a piece of shit. Don't bother coming here, unless you want to drown yourself in debt, and shitty health insurance. Seriously...America has one of the worst health insurances ever.

One clear conclusion to be had for sure from these posts: grass totally seems greener in the neighbor's yard...

I would honestly agree with Sabratha though. I have family on each side of the N. Atlantic (one parent from each side, basically) and it's much easier for a typical individual to start his/her own business in North America. The "barriers to entry" for that are really higher in (western) Europe.

Jail guard to policeman to real estate broker to developer -- basically, employed to self-employed over a number of years --- isn't really anything special. Many people would have career paths like that.

lol wrote:

USA is a piece of shit. Don't bother coming here, unless you want to drown yourself in debt, and shitty health insurance. Seriously...America has one of the worst health insurances ever.

I'm pretty sure that the unemployed half of Spain's youth would gladly accept to have no health insurance in exchange for being gainfully employed.

I was on holiday in Spain last year and I fractured my arm and elbow. I was in the hospital and they told me I was going to need surgery and that I could get it done there. I asked them to just stick a cast on it and I'd get it sorted when I got back to the UK else it'd have cost me loads (I did have insurance but couldn't be bothered with the hassle at the time and didn't want to spend an extra two weeks out there).

I got back to the UK and they said surgery wasn't required! I'm not sure whether Spain were just trying to get my money or I actually did need surgery and the UK failed to see that - my arm is still bent and gives me grief!

P.S. I also got a medical bill sent to my address from the Spanish hospital for €390. I was only in there 2 hours! Luckily I could just send them a copy of my European Union card and our NHS foot the bill.

I don't envy you guys who have to foot your medical bills every time something goes wrong.

lol wrote:

USA is a piece of shit. Don't bother coming here, unless you want to drown yourself in debt, and shitty health insurance. Seriously...America has one of the worst health insurances ever.

Depends. I think I'd rather take higher wages and then pay for healthcare from my own pocket, rather than have to pay healthcare taxes for care I'm never going to get when something bad happens, or care taht I will have to wait for years or months to get.

My granny, a business-active workign person broke her hip. The obligatory public healthcare system told her she can get an operation with the healthcare system 8 months later. That was 8 months living without a functional leg, not being able to go to work etc.

My granny decided to go to a private healthcare company and got the operation done next week (paid from her own money for it). Public healthcare system of course never gave her tax money back

So yeah, I'd rather take the USA real-healthcare-out-of-your-own-pocket than our obligatory-make-believe-wait-till-you-die-healthcare.

Sabratha wrote:

lol wrote:

USA is a piece of shit. Don't bother coming here, unless you want to drown yourself in debt, and shitty health insurance. Seriously...America has one of the worst health insurances ever.

Depends. I think I'd rather take higher wages and then pay for healthcare from my own pocket, rather than have to pay healthcare taxes for care I'm never going to get when something bad happens, or care taht I will have to wait for years or months to get.

My granny, a business-active workign person broke her hip. The obligatory public healthcare system told her she can get an operation with the healthcare system 8 months later. That was 8 months living without a functional leg, not being able to go to work etc.

My granny decided to go to a private healthcare company and got the operation done next week (paid from her own money for it). Public healthcare system of course never gave her tax money back

So yeah, I'd rather take the USA real-healthcare-out-of-your-own-pocket than our obligatory-make-believe-wait-till-you-die-healthcare.

Why specifically the US though? Why not other parts of Europe, or Canada, New Zealand or Australia?

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

lol wrote:

USA is a piece of shit. Don't bother coming here, unless you want to drown yourself in debt, and shitty health insurance. Seriously...America has one of the worst health insurances ever.

Depends. I think I'd rather take higher wages and then pay for healthcare from my own pocket, rather than have to pay healthcare taxes for care I'm never going to get when something bad happens, or care taht I will have to wait for years or months to get.

My granny, a business-active workign person broke her hip. The obligatory public healthcare system told her she can get an operation with the healthcare system 8 months later. That was 8 months living without a functional leg, not being able to go to work etc.

My granny decided to go to a private healthcare company and got the operation done next week (paid from her own money for it). Public healthcare system of course never gave her tax money back

So yeah, I'd rather take the USA real-healthcare-out-of-your-own-pocket than our obligatory-make-believe-wait-till-you-die-healthcare.

Why specifically the US though? Why not other parts of Europe, or Canada, New Zealand or Australia?

New Zealand or Canada sound nice as well, though even harder to get to. Australia has some weird laws and I'm not sure if the local white culture wouldn't piss me off more than the one here does.
Eruope... dunno, perhaps Ireland would be ok. I've been to France and not a big fan, France is dirty, french as a group are racist, high-strung and precocious.

Quote :

no health care

I can interchange with you I'm obligated to pay for health care system every month I'd prefer saving these money put them on an account and use when it's necessary. Last year I wanted to go to an oculist I signed up and they told me that I had to wait 3 months, 3 fucking months! so I paid and went to a private visit on the following day.

Not to mention that free healthcare won't magically make you healthy.

Good lifestyle habits, healthy diet, exercise, quality sleep (and enough of it), no substance abuse, etc. all of that is YOUR own responsibility.

I was hearing on the other day on the radio an interviewed doctor (Canadian) who said that while it was okay to spend resources to try to reduce waiting times, it was in his opinion a lot better to instead focus on the economy and education, given the strong link between health and income/education.

A rich and educated population matters much more than a good healthcare system when it comes to how healthy the population is in the end.

/thread

What the hell does any of this happen to do with Tim Walsh? No offense guys I know everyone's having a discussion, but seriously.

meenwhile wrote:

lol wrote:

/thread

What the hell does any of this happen to do with Tim Walsh? No offense guys I know everyone's having a discussion, but seriously.

Much of American suburbia is similar to Littleton, which Eric and Dylan obviously felt the need to decimate with fire. There is no shortage of religious lunatics, corrupt capitalists, and anti-intellectuals.

Back on topic...

Does anyone have an opinion on the "Walsh butt rape incident"? I couldn't find anything on this topic via search... Here is a little article on it:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Some think this drawing (apparently drawn by Eric) depicts Eric and Dylan getting raped in the butt by Walsh during their arrest, and this is the true "January Incident" that inspired Columbine. Thoughts?

I think people are way too quick to dismiss the possibility. There's no hard evidence but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence, not the least of which is Walsh's departure form the JeffCo sheriff's dept. That same dept. was implicated in an underage male escort ring or something like this, I believe. There are "explanations" for the document you cite but they seem suspicious as well. Usually when this subject is broached someone pipes up right away to call it a mistake or hoax. 

Go back and read Eric's essay about getting arrested. In it he says "As I waited I cried, I hurt, and I felt like hell...." The words "I hurt" seem a bit odd in this context. If he meant he hurt emotionally, well then that pretty much does away with the "psychopath" label doesn't it? 

Now if he meant physically... then why?   

Police brutality is not just an issue in the US -- it is an epidemic. I think the story deserves much more of an investigation than it has had, but I don't think it's likely to happpen.

Eric went way out of his way to try to kill cops during NBK. There is simply no rational explanation for his obsession with killing them. Yes, I know, he was mad about being busted for the van break-in; sorry that doesn't work for me, entirely.

Not everything that deals with police have to deal with police corruption. There is still no evidence whatsoever to this day regarding Eric and Dylan being abused by police. Sounds like...once again, people are using police officers as a scapegoat for someone doing a massacre.

Regarding the buttrape incident, correct me if I'm wrong but I could've sworn Calence Emerson, or another fellow Columbine researcher reported that the buttrape incident text is a bunch of BS, and it was created by one of their friends, and "Had no idea it was going to blow up that big".

lol wrote:

Regarding the buttrape incident, correct me if I'm wrong but I could've sworn Calence Emerson, or another fellow Columbine researcher reported that the buttrape incident text is a bunch of BS, and it was created by one of their friends, and "Had no idea it was going to blow up that big".

This is what you usually hear, yeah. I'm still not convinced.

Regarding Eric's obsession with killing the cops; seems fairly consistent with how he reacted to everything. Every little slight against him became worthy of death. Being arrested is a pretty debasing experience, after I was arrested I hated the cop who did it, I still have a underlying contempt for the police. They treat you like you're the worst form of human trash they've ever had the displeasure of looking at. Was his reaction out of proportion, absolutely, then again so is blowing up a school because you were bullied.

I'd be much more inclined to say he's not a psychopath than say he might have been raped.

meenwhile wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

meenwhile wrote:

lol wrote:

/thread

What the hell does any of this happen to do with Tim Walsh? No offense guys I know everyone's having a discussion, but seriously.

Much of American suburbia is similar to Littleton, which Eric and Dylan obviously felt the need to decimate with fire. There is no shortage of religious lunatics, corrupt capitalists, and anti-intellectuals.

Back on topic...

Does anyone have an opinion on the "Walsh butt rape incident"? I couldn't find anything on this topic via search... Here is a little article on it:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Some think this drawing (apparently drawn by Eric) depicts Eric and Dylan getting raped in the butt by Walsh during their arrest, and this is the true "January Incident" that inspired Columbine. Thoughts?

I think people are way too quick to dismiss the possibility. There's no hard evidence but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence, not the least of which is Walsh's departure form the JeffCo sheriff's dept. That same dept. was implicated in an underage male escort ring or something like this, I believe. There are "explanations" for the document you cite but they seem suspicious as well. Usually when this subject is broached someone pipes up right away to call it a mistake or hoax. 

Go back and read Eric's essay about getting arrested. In it he says "As I waited I cried, I hurt, and I felt like hell...." The words "I hurt" seem a bit odd in this context. If he meant he hurt emotionally, well then that pretty much does away with the "psychopath" label doesn't it? 

Now if he meant physically... then why?   

Police brutality is not just an issue in the US -- it is an epidemic. I think the story deserves much more of an investigation than it has had, but I don't think it's likely to happpen.

Eric went way out of his way to try to kill cops during NBK. There is simply no rational explanation for his obsession with killing them. Yes, I know, he was mad about being busted for the van break-in; sorry that doesn't work for me, entirely.

Do you know offhand where that essay is located? I've been trying to find it... But will keep looking! I'm not dismissing this theory without knowing more.

It's a school assignment he did called "the most significant event that has changed my life" I'm not sure if you can find it outside the 11k. It does not prove he was raped at all. Being arrested is traumatic.

meenwhile wrote:

Do you know offhand where that essay is located? I've been trying to find it... But will keep looking! I'm not dismissing this theory without knowing more.

Here's a link:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

aubre wrote:

"Being arrested is traumatic." 

Not so much. Have you ever been arrested?  I have. It did not fill me rage or with a thirst for revenge. Nor did it send me out to make pipe-bombs and accrue illegal weapons. 

If he was a psychopath how could anything have felt traumatic?

The psychopath argument is such a cop-out. 

_________________

Gustopoet2 wrote:

meenwhile wrote:

Do you know offhand where that essay is located? I've been trying to find it... But will keep looking! I'm not dismissing this theory without knowing more.

Here's a link:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

aubre wrote:

"Being arrested is traumatic." 

Not so much. Have you ever been arrested?  I have. It did not fill me rage or with a thirst for revenge. Nor did it send me out to make pipe-bombs and accrue illegal weapons. 

If he was a psychopath how could anything have felt traumatic?

The psychopath argument is such a cop-out. 

_________________

Yes I have been arrested, no I didn't want to kill the cop but I hated him. Plus like I said before I think it's more likely he wasn't a psychopath than he was raped. Why would this cop rape a couple of upper middle class kids that he's fully planning to being to the station and book them, than call their parents to pick them up. That would just be incredibly stupid on his part.

aubre wrote:

Yes I have been arrested, no I didn't want to kill the cop but I hated him. Plus like I said before I think it's more likely he wasn't a psychopath than he was raped.  Why would this cop rape a couple of upper middle class kids that he's fully planning to being to the station and book them, than call their parents to pick them up. That would just be incredibly stupid on his part.

So are you saying that cops and rapists are usually intelligent?

Gustopoet2 wrote:

aubre wrote:

Yes I have been arrested, no I didn't want to kill the cop but I hated him. Plus like I said before I think it's more likely he wasn't a psychopath than he was raped.  Why would this cop rape a couple of upper middle class kids that he's fully planning to being to the station and book them, than call their parents to pick them up. That would just be incredibly stupid on his part.

So are you saying that cops and rapists are usually intelligent?

No I'm not but he would have had to have lacked any kind of common sense to have raped them than proceed to arrest them.

The only thing I've ever found strange about their arrest was the charge itself. Seems to me that cop went easy on them but I thought that probably has something to do with them cooperating.

aubre wrote:

Gustopoet2 wrote:

aubre wrote:

Yes I have been arrested, no I didn't want to kill the cop but I hated him. Plus like I said before I think it's more likely he wasn't a psychopath than he was raped.  Why would this cop rape a couple of upper middle class kids that he's fully planning to being to the station and book them, than call their parents to pick them up. That would just be incredibly stupid on his part.

So are you saying that cops and rapists are usually intelligent?

No I'm not but he would have had to have lacked any kind of common sense to have raped them than proceed to arrest them.

The only thing I've ever found strange about their arrest was  the charge itself. Seems to me that cop went easy on them but I thought that probably has something to do with them cooperating.

Besides Jeffco wasn't very good at Cover-ups, if something like that really happened, that other people knew about, than we'd have a lot more to go on than a file named Walsh buttrape and a drawing that literally proves nothing at all.

aubre wrote:

Besides Jeffco wasn't very good at Cover-ups, if something like that really happened, that other people knew about, than we'd have a lot more to go on than a file named Walsh buttrape and a drawing that literally proves nothing at all.

You are making a lot of assertions here without any evidence for them. Exactly what has JeffCo tried and failed at covering up? The Basement Tapes? The reason the search warrant was quashed?

I think they've done a fair enough job of obfuscating many key elements of the case. Much like any other police dept.

Let's review a few key points regarding Eric's potential rape by Walsh:

1) Eric called the arrest the most traumatic experience of his life.

2) He went into psychiatric counseling after the arrest and was prescribed Luvox.

3) Plans for NBK followed directly after the arrest.

4) Walsh was mentioned specifically and repeatedly by the boys as a reason for doing NBK.

5) The boys went way out of their way to try to kill and engage with the cops during NBK.

6) The Walsh Buttrape file does exist.

7) "My wrath for January's incident will be godlike"

There's more but I must step a way a moment....

Gustopoet2 wrote:

aubre wrote:

Besides Jeffco wasn't very good at Cover-ups, if something like that really happened, that other people knew about, than we'd have a lot more to go on than a file named Walsh buttrape and a drawing that literally proves nothing at all.

You are making a lot of assertions here without any evidence for them. Exactly what has JeffCo tried and failed at covering up? The Basement Tapes? The reason the search warrant was quashed?  

I think they've done a fair enough job of obfuscating many key elements of the case. Much like any other police dept.

Let's review a few key points regarding Eric's potential rape by Walsh:

1) Eric called the arrest the most traumatic experience of his life.

2) He went into psychiatric counseling after the arrest and was prescribed Luvox.

3) Plans for NBK followed directly after the arrest.

4) Walsh was mentioned specifically and repeatedly by the boys as a  reason for doing NBK.

5) The boys went way out of their way to try to kill and engage with the cops during NBK.

6) The Walsh Buttrape file does exist.

7) "My wrath for January's incident will be godlike"

There's more but I must step a way a moment....

How about the fact that they tried to cover-up the search warrant ever having existed at all.

They even had a meeting about it shortly after Columbine happened. They didn't want that getting out, but it did, so good job JeffCo.

Sorry but something that salacious being involved in an event that big would not stay covered very long.

It is traumatizing being arrested for something that big. I don't know what you were arrested for or how you were treated, but I was arrested for the same damn thing they were arrested for and not much older than they were. And when they have to separate you and interrogate you it can feel pretty damn scary and humiliating. And he was probably terrified of what his family was going to think.

He went into counseling because it was ordered by the courts as part of his diversion program. I was also part of a diversion program and they make you do all kinds of things like that. Another thing which made him more angry and bitter at law enforcement, he thought the consequences for what he did were "orbital" I believe was the word he used. He really didn't feel like he had done anything wrong.

The Walsh buttrape file is weird but it's been explained.

Them mentioning Walsh repeatedly doesn't surprise me considering how well Eric held grudges.

aubre wrote:

Sorry but something that salacious being involved in an event that big would not stay covered very long.

There is absolutely no evidence for this assertion. Rapes stay covered up all the time. So does police brutality. So do rapes that are reported and investigated.

aubre wrote:

It is traumatizing being arrested for something that big. I don't know what you were arrested for or how you were treated, but I was arrested for the same damn thing they were arrested for and not much older than they were. And when they have to separate you and interrogate you it can feel pretty damn scary and humiliating. And he was probably terrified of what his family was going to think.

That is a direct contradiction of the idea that Eric was a psychopath. That said, I also would say: no, it is not that traumatic. Lots of people are arrested; many of them are mistreated by police or other inmates and very few, if any of them, resort to planning a bombing and rampage shooting as a response.

I've been arrested for possession of a sawed-off shotgun and placed in a felony detention block for a while. I'd say 1 in 3 people there was a victim of police brutality, many of them repeatedly.  

aubre wrote:

He went into counseling because it was ordered by the courts as part of his diversion program.  

That's true. But I read somewhere where his parents sought treatment for him directly related to his PTSD from the arrest itself. Dylan was not placed in this kind of intensive psychiatric counseling nor did he receive Luvox.

aubre wrote:

The Walsh buttrape file is weird but it's been explained.

Explained for whom? I would say it is actually completely unexplained. Note: I am not asking you to repeat the explanation; I am saying the explanation is, to my mind, insufficient.

aubre wrote:

Them mentioning Walsh repeatedly doesn't surprise me considering how well Eric held grudges.

So now we're back to Dylan-the-follower? It is Dylan who mentions Walsh both in the BT and in the yearbook. As far as I know, Eric never said his name or mentioned him directly. He just said "kill cops." Another key pattern of a rape-victim to avoid using the assailant's name. Also to project the experience onto other similar places or people or images. Like other cops forex.

NBK did not become a living reality until after the Walsh arrest. It became a reality partially as a direct response to it. This means that anyone who is saying the boys were holding a grudge because they were embarrassed or humiliated by their arrest must then also admit that neither of them were psychopaths.

The fact that Rocky and his buds were arrested for a B&E and let off scot-free is the best alternate explanation I've heard as to why the boys hated cops so much. If this is the case, then it places the onus for NBK back on the institutionalized bullying that was endemic to CHS and the Littleton community as a whole.

The January incident could have been referring to the drugs search subjected onto the boys at school once, or the alleged cup of shit being thrown at them incident.

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

The January incident could have been referring to the drugs search subjected onto the boys at school once, or the alleged cup of shit being thrown at them incident.

This is true. Very good point. But he did say "Not to mention our revenge in the commons." As if to suggest two separate grudges?

Ok, being arrested is not traumatic enough to cause ptsd, but when did Eric ever act like he was suffering from ptsd? I'm not saying I don't believe you but if you could provide a source for Eric's parents wanting him to get counseling because of ptsd, then I would really like to see it.

I just assumed Eric received the medication and counseling because he was a lot more honest on those forms than Dylan was.

I've never said Dylan was a follower, I'm just saying Eric held grudges really well and they both fueled and feed off of each other.

aubre wrote:

Ok, being arrested is not traumatic enough to cause ptsd, but when did Eric ever act like he was suffering from ptsd? I'm not saying I don't believe you but if you could provide a source for Eric's parents wanting him to get counseling because of ptsd, then I would really like to see it.

I'll see what I can do about digging up some references. I am fairly certain that the term PTSD was not used by anyone in this context. That was just a kind of shorthand I was using -- regret any confusion.

You are right that there is no solid evidence for Walsh raping Eric. All the evidence that we have seems to suggest that the Walsh Buttrape report is an anomalous bit of documentation that doesn't mean much of anything at all.

So why does it exist?

When you were arrested did you draw a sketch of the incident? Were you asked to write up a report as in the following:


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

"Map of crime scene drawn by Eric Harris."

So you are suggesting that Eric drew this diagram as a part of his written confession to the van break-in? So what are the figures above the "van and us" section? Why did Eric draw them?

Why does the drawing NOT show the break-in, or Dylan, or their route of attempted escape?

Need I point out that it is highly unusual for any suspect to draw a diagram of a crime scene even when confessing to a crime? But it is not unusual for a victim to attempt to do so.

The Walshbuttrape document is also mixed up with the quashed search warrant. I would like to hear your explanation for this. My feeling is the Walshbuttrape issue may have played a role in the suppression of the Browns' search warrant.

No, I was not asked to draw the crime scene, other than trying to get a direct confession out of us, we weren't asked to do much else.

Admittedly, focusing on the crime you committed to the point where you're making sketches of it is unusual. For the most part you just want to forget it ever happened.

But that picture does not look like someone being raped. Eric was not bad at drawing. If that is a picture of someone bent over than it looks like a five year old did it. Not that, that means much, the whole picture looks bad.

I'm just saying other than the unusual amount of focus on the crime scene there's not much in that picture to go on.

Ah, now I see what you're getting at (sorry I'm tired, it took me a minute) ok well I guess if they had him draw it up it's a bit out of the ordinary. I'm not sure why they would have him do that. It's is possible they had him draw it up as part of his confession, it's not out of the question. It's still think it's a bit of a reach but I think I might look a little further into this now. I want to know what there standard procedure for a crime like this would be.

aubre wrote:

But that picture does not look like someone being raped. Eric was not bad at drawing.  If that is a picture of someone bent over than it looks like a five year old did it. Not that, that means much, the whole picture looks bad.

Well he was traumatized. So it's a bad picture of someone being raped drawn by someone who...was just raped and was scared and humiliated. Not to mention still under the power and control of the rapist.

If you got arrested again and a cop raped you and you had the guts to report it and they asked you to make a drawing would you go for a lot of detail or just slash out something in anger and pain?

That's assuming anyone even acted like they believed you and since you were just arrested that is highly unlikely. As soon as you are in handcuffs you no longer have much credibility with anyone. That goes for your own family and friends as well. Most people assume if you have been arrested you deserve whatever happens and you are sure to be a liar and claim things as excuses etc.

I've had cops threaten me. I've had them become borderline abusive. If they had crossed the line, while arresting me, or even while I was in jail, just who do you think I could go and tell? The other cops? That is a naive position. If Eric was raped and he reported it, the result would probably be no-one believed him, or believed him just enough to have him draw the sketch upstream.

The main issue would still be his crime -- the van break-in. His side of the story even if it included police brutality would be only of a secondary interest to anyone then as it remains to this day. I'm sure even his parents would have a hard time believing it, assuming he did report it. After-all he was crazy, right? That's what everyone concluded. Typical result for a rape victim by the way.

But I am with you on your positions as well. The whole thing is disturbing and ambiguous.