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 Would they really have succeeded after school?

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dahlia_rose

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:25 pm

I'm getting sleepy but I wanted to post in this thread before I retired. I'm not responding to anyone in particular, just going on my own tangent here.

My honest opinion and personal bottom line is this: Dylan and Eric's friendship was destined to end in death in no uncertain terms. Either they were both psychologically disturbed PRIOR to meeting one another OR Columbine was a very, very rare case of folie a deux between two teens that would imprint upon the public consciousness for years to come. Being brought together in life and planning something like this was a one in a million thing and even Eric admitted it in his journal ("Don't expect this to happen again"). And he was right; it hasn't happened since. There hasn't been a duo like them after Columbine and there probably won't ever be again. They only would've lived to see their 20's IF they were IRREVOCABLY separated.

I agree with the previous posts where you guys say that Dylan definitely wouldn't have gotten anywhere after high school without some serious mental health intervention. Sue and Tom would've needed to employ very stern, focused action on his behalf prior to the shooting. In Dylan's case, I am of the opinion that being involuntarily committed or moving schools were his only options and it was incredibly necessary, considering his utterly deteriorated psychological state. They might have had a case had they discovered the weapons, his journal and all the other notes he had written in addition to noticing his rapid weight loss, alcoholism, stark change in demeanor, ect. The notes would have implied Eric's knowledge of the situation but depending on what the authorities would be able to get their hands on, he may or may not have received a similar outcome.

I can see Dylan either making a suicide attempt once he was released from the hospital, or shortly after being separated from Eric, or at some point in college. Dylan was destined for suicide, imho. Sorry guys.

Eric, however, I see differently. I know this might kick up dirt among some of you, but I honestly believe if he were separated from Dylan he would've given up entirely on murder. Stalking? Absolutely. Harassment? I can see that. Petty theft? Sure. Credit card fraud? Maybe. Domestic disturbances? Yep. An arrest for making terroristic threats? Uh huh. Minor hacking? Not too far out of the ballpark.

Before 1999 closed out, I could see him trying (and failing) to recruit someone else after Dylan's departure, and then essentially being forced to finish out the rest of his senior year. He'd get some rinky dink job while he stubbornly kept his focus on violent fantasies that would ebb away somewhat over time with experience and maturity (IF and only IF his contact with Dylan completely ceased).

Eric probably would've shouldered through life with a lot of bitterness and become increasingly unpersonable, having few friends and suffering a string of failed relationships. He may have gotten worse or he may have gotten better. I tend to lean toward the former. One scenario I can comfortably imagine of Eric is this:

Has shitty long-term relationship with girl, perhaps the most serious he's ever had, may or may not marry her. Makes several threats on her life and his life during arguments and the cops are called once or twice. Can see the girl getting fed up with his impossible temperament and when she finally leaves him and calls the cops yet again, he calls her one last time to tell her he's going to kill himself and it will all be her fault. He then commits suicide and leaves the cops to find his body in a sick effort to traumatize her forever.

This very same scenario happened to one of my stepfather's guy friends in 2013.
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PaintItBlack

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:41 pm

I think if just a few things had been different in their lives, they could have been and provably would have been. There are kids who have actually killed someone and got out of a juvie center and went on to live productive lives.If they could do it, so could E &D. E &D had a lot going for them and much untapped potential.
They were just far too depressed, angry and bitter to see it.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:32 am

Eric probably would've been arrested for setting off a pipe bomb (for fun) somewhere.

i see him getting into allot of mischief and constantly in trouble with the law and other people.

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dahlia_rose

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric probably would've been arrested for setting off a pipe bomb (for fun) somewhere.

i see him getting into allot of mischief and constantly in trouble with the law and other people.

I see that too. I have a feeling that he was one of those kids who were introduced to other kids with a disclaimer before he approached. Like I could totally imagine Dylan apologizing for Eric preemptively to someone he's cool with like, "That's Eric. Um, just give him some time to warm up. He's pretty cool once he gets to know you." (Coughs internally)

Devon once described him to authorities as "a pain in the butt" (she probably would've said ass if she wasn't a teenager lol). From the videos and the testimony from the 11k, he was very hard to impress, not open to meeting other people, extremely untalkative and somewhat elitist about his hobbies and interests. That'd probably carry on in a sense when he grew older. He might've been the type to get on his neighbors about their dogs and kids or park in someone else's spot just to spite them for doing something that annoyed him.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric probably would've been arrested for setting off a pipe bomb (for fun) somewhere.

i see him getting into allot of mischief and constantly in trouble with the law and other people.

I see that too. I have a feeling that he was one of those kids who were introduced to other kids with a disclaimer before he approached. Like I could totally imagine Dylan apologizing for Eric preemptively to someone he's cool with like, "That's Eric. Um, just give him some time to warm up. He's pretty cool once he gets to know you." (Coughs internally)

Devon once described him to authorities as "a pain in the butt" (she probably would've said ass if she wasn't a teenager lol). From the videos and the testimony from the 11k, he was very hard to impress, not open to meeting other people, extremely untalkative and somewhat elitist about his hobbies and interests. That'd probably carry on in a sense when he grew older. He might've been the type to get on his neighbors about their dogs and kids or park in someone else's spot just to spite them for doing something that annoyed him.

great sample and forecast based upon EH's anti social aspect. He would likely have prospered in the military, channel all of that insanity and release it in a positive if not acceptable arena.

He could have ended up being a Col Kurtz from "Apocalypse Now", but more likely to have settled in nicely.

Side note, but did Eric finish top 25% in his graduating class? he was borderline top quartile going into his junior year, never heard how he finished.
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dahlia_rose

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thank you!

I would hope that he would've thrived in the military if he had just waited long enough to reenroll. Although I don't know how Eric ranked in his graduating class since I am less versed in the academic records he left behind.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:31 pm

I agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The only reason Eric and Dylan were really close friends was because they shared a common interest/goal which was NBK.
Otherwise both were really different from each other and they didn't always spend as much time together as people think. Even in their journals they barely mention each other.
If they were alive then they probably wouldn't even know the whereabouts of each other.
Both of them would've gone their separate ways after high school and I think deep down they probably knew that.

Sorry if my English seems crappy but all of a sudden I started stuttering and I forget certain words. Also can't talk properly anymore without sounding silly or not being able to form proper sentences.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:40 pm

I think Eric would've been a military guy and Dylan would've gone to college.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
great sample and forecast based upon EH's anti social aspect.  He would likely have prospered in the military, channel all of that insanity and release it in a positive if not acceptable arena.

He could have ended up being a Col Kurtz from "Apocalypse Now", but more likely to have settled in nicely.  

I guess there's no real way anybody could know. He probably did have real potential to grow out of the angry, withdrawn phase he was going through in high school, but on the other hand I think about what Dylan's mother said about her son and wonder if it might have equally applied to Eric if we could ever ask the Harrises.

Sue said during her TED talk that Dylan was "a victim of his own pathology". Having read about other mass murderers, I've found that in several cases, the assailants had careers in government, law enforcement or the military. They all deteriorated socially and psychologically at a later point in their lives, as apparent in the cases of Andrew Kehoe, Charles Whitman, Christopher Dorner, Nidal Hassan, and most recently Chris Harper Mercer. I wonder if Eric's pathology would have steered him in a similar direction during his adult life.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:25 pm

That's the thing though, we will never know, because the Harrises refuse to give at least 1 interview. I have to give Sue credit, she was very brave to do that. I wish they would stop being cowards.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:30 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
That's the thing though, we will never know, because the Harrises refuse to give at least 1 interview. I have to give Sue credit, she was very brave to do that. I wish they would stop being cowards.

You can't call them that. They're Eric's parents, and it's their prerogative whatever they choose to do after the tragedy. No one should even be telling them what or how to feel, regardless if it makes them unloving parents as compared to the Klebolds.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:33 pm

I'm just saying it would give some closure to the victims families.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:40 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] lineman in college football and future top pick in NFL talks about being bullied as a teenager.

Connor also carries a 3.65 GPA and was accepted in the McCombs school of business @ UT. He'll be worth $30M before his 21st birthday.

Unlike E & D, this kid funneled his emotions into something positive and let time take it's course vs throwing in the towel.
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bradt93
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:43 pm

Wow, good for him. I'm majoring in Accounting and getting my MBA. I won't start work until after undergrad and I will go to school part time to get my MBA. I will be starting work in my early 30s though, because I went several semesters late, because I developed depression.
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Fatheroftwo
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Wow, good for him. I'm majoring in Accounting and getting my MBA. I won't start work until after undergrad and I will go to school part time to get my MBA. I will be starting work in my early 30s though, because I went several semesters late, because I developed depression.

Plenty of time to make your mark in a great career. Most guys don't figure things out til >30, the late start for you isn't a big deal.

Nice rally.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:35 pm

No. It's hard to sway somebody's beliefs as they get older. Their beliefs were formed late in high school especially Eric Harris.

He didn't fancy guns for hunting or protection, he fancied guns in another form, power. That would make for some serious conflict in your 20's and 30's.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
If Eric was elitist about his hobbies and interests it was because he was a lonely and misunderstood kid. I wonder how many times before he just gave up on people that he tried to tell somebody about a band or interest he had and they responded with something like "Ewww.. that's really weird!" or "Why would do that/buy that/listen to that/wear that?" Eric was a sensitive kid and couldn't always brush off such criticism.I believe that even today most people don't see the deep loneliness that I believe was there in Eric long before he died.

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