If you could turn back time?

Say you had a TARDIS and could go back in time, what is one thing that you'd change about that day?

Changing Eric or/and Dylans minds isn't an option. You also have no control over how many people they kill. You only have your voice and actions.

Would you warn someone before hand? A certain victim? Police? Parents? What would you do to even slightly change the outcome of that day given the chance? What one thing breaks your heart the most that you wish you could change?

Notify Judy Brown and let her know to warn everybody - both parents, the school, the cops. I figure this one woman could do it single handedly.
She's quite the whistle blower. ;) Dylan's mom would then intercept him before he left.  Eric's parents wouldn't have taken off for work.

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

Notify Judy Brown and let her know to warn everybody - both parents, the school, the cops. I figure this one woman could do it single handedly.
She's quite the whistle blower. ;) Dylan's mom would then intercept him before he left.  Eric's parents wouldn't have taken off for work.

I think that is an incredible plan that would have worked wonders, honestly.

Call in a bomb threat, that would fuck up Erics allready ill thought plans

tfsa47090 wrote:

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

Notify Judy Brown and let her know to warn everybody - both parents, the school, the cops. I figure this one woman could do it single handedly.
She's quite the whistle blower. ;) Dylan's mom would then intercept him before he left.  Eric's parents wouldn't have taken off for work.

I think that is an incredible plan that would have worked wonders, honestly.

Keep Judy Brown outta this one....thats why police never took her serious . she cried wolf tooooooo many times

Thookies2013 wrote:

tfsa47090 wrote:

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

Notify Judy Brown and let her know to warn everybody - both parents, the school, the cops. I figure this one woman could do it single handedly.
She's quite the whistle blower. ;) Dylan's mom would then intercept him before he left.  Eric's parents wouldn't have taken off for work.

I think that is an incredible plan that would have worked wonders, honestly.

Keep Judy Brown outta this one....thats why police never took her serious . she cried wolf tooooooo many times

Err, the operative word here is never, as in, the police never took anything seriously, let alone Judy Brown.  At least she attempted to be proactive.

Quote :

Changing Eric or/and Dylans minds isn't an option. You also have no control over how many people they kill. You only have your voice and actions.

If this is not an option, I see no sense in warning someone or similar things.
I would travel back to moments, who are interesting to me to know. Like the moment, when Eric and Dylan first met, or watching the January incident.

I'd hide out in that area next to the West Entrance doors where Rachel and Richard were. Something just doesn't add up as oppose to the accounts of the outside events. I wouldn't stop or change anything, but I want to know what exactly

Sounds Kind of morbid, but I would want to see and hear what E & D said/did once they returned to the library to kill themselves. So many questions about how exactly it all went down.

wanna be in the lunch room to see them place the duffel bags down

I know it sounds macabre and extremely disturbing, but I would like to have seen the library murders. Not because I want to see innocent kids getting their heads blown off, but to see the state in which D+E were in, what they said, etc.

JDM87 wrote:

I know it sounds macabre and extremely disturbing, but I would like to have seen the library murders. Not because I want to see innocent kids getting their heads blown off, but to see the state in which D+E were in, what they said, etc.

I think I understand exactly what you mean by this.

I think I would as well, but personally, I would want all of the victims' screams and other sounds removed, and I would want the victims to be entirely pixelated or completely blurred. I could not cope with watching and listening to them actually being murdered and injured.

BUT, I WOULD want to see Dylan and Eric's overall demeanors, facial expressions and their eyes, and I would definitely want to listen to what they were saying to see how removed they actually were from what they were doing. Because despite everything they said, thought, wrote, and ultimately did, I genuinely believe that they ended up ENTIRELY turning themselves "off" to do this.

I believe that Dylan's whooping and laughing was at least in part (if not ENTIRELY) a hysterical reaction to what he was doing. Different snippets that I have learned about regarding things Eric did, and they way he did them sound like a total disconnect from his own being.

In the "Lost Boys" documentary, a young woman named Heidi (I believe) said it was so creepy not only because they were actually doing what they were doing, but because they were "not there" and "blank" (or something to that effect). The way Bree Pasquale describes her exchange with Eric seems to me like he was almost in a robotic, otherworldly...just disconnected state of being. The exchange between the both of them and John Savage gives me that impression, as well; both Eric's "Identify yourself." statement, and Dylan's "Oh, just killing people..." response to Savage.

Sometimes I think they wanted to think that it is only a game. So it is easier to kill, you know.

I don´t know what I would do. If I could not change their, that was my wish. Maybe I would warn Susan Klebold.

tfsa47090 wrote:

JDM87 wrote:

I know it sounds macabre and extremely disturbing, but I would like to have seen the library murders. Not because I want to see innocent kids getting their heads blown off, but to see the state in which D+E were in, what they said, etc.

I think I understand exactly what you mean by this.

I think I would as well, but personally, I would want all of the victims' screams and other sounds removed, and I would want the victims to be entirely pixelated or completely blurred. I could not cope with watching and listening to them actually being murdered and injured.

BUT, I WOULD want to see Dylan and Eric's overall demeanors, facial expressions and their eyes, and I would definitely want to listen to what they were saying to see how removed they actually were from what they were doing. Because despite everything they said, thought, wrote, and ultimately did, I genuinely believe that they ended up ENTIRELY turning themselves "off" to do this.

I believe that Dylan's whooping and laughing was at least in part (if not ENTIRELY) a hysterical reaction to what he was doing. Different snippets that I have learned about regarding things Eric did, and they way he did them sound like a total disconnect from his own being.

In the "Lost Boys" documentary, a young woman named Heidi (I believe) said it was so creepy not only because they were actually doing what they were doing, but because they were "not there" and "blank" (or something to that effect). The way Bree Pasquale describes her exchange with Eric seems to me like he was almost in a robotic, otherworldly...just disconnected state of being. The exchange between the both of them and John Savage gives me that impression, as well; both Eric's "Identify yourself." statement, and Dylan's "Oh, just killing people..." response to Savage.

Would either of you want to watch Dylan and Eric commit suicide?

Jenn wrote:

tfsa47090 wrote:

JDM87 wrote:

I know it sounds macabre and extremely disturbing, but I would like to have seen the library murders. Not because I want to see innocent kids getting their heads blown off, but to see the state in which D+E were in, what they said, etc.

I think I understand exactly what you mean by this.

I think I would as well, but personally, I would want all of the victims' screams and other sounds removed, and I would want the victims to be entirely pixelated or completely blurred. I could not cope with watching and listening to them actually being murdered and injured.

BUT, I WOULD want to see Dylan and Eric's overall demeanors, facial expressions and their eyes, and I would definitely want to listen to what they were saying to see how removed they actually were from what they were doing. Because despite everything they said, thought, wrote, and ultimately did, I genuinely believe that they ended up ENTIRELY turning themselves "off" to do this.

I believe that Dylan's whooping and laughing was at least in part (if not ENTIRELY) a hysterical reaction to what he was doing. Different snippets that I have learned about regarding things Eric did, and they way he did them sound like a total disconnect from his own being.

In the "Lost Boys" documentary, a young woman named Heidi (I believe) said it was so creepy not only because they were actually doing what they were doing, but because they were "not there" and "blank" (or something to that effect). The way Bree Pasquale describes her exchange with Eric seems to me like he was almost in a robotic, otherworldly...just disconnected state of being. The exchange between the both of them and John Savage gives me that impression, as well; both Eric's "Identify yourself." statement, and Dylan's "Oh, just killing people..." response to Savage.

Would either of you want to watch Dylan and Eric commit suicide?

I think perhaps I would want to watch right up to the point they were about to do it to see if they were mentally "there", just like with everything else that they did that day. I am wondering if they "came back to reality" right before they did it, or if they were still in another dimension. I also could not cope with actually seeing them do it, though. No way.


I also want to clarify what I mean by the term "hysterical reaction" regarding Dylan in my earlier post in this thread.

From what I understand it to mean, sometimes when someone is dealing with something, or doing something that they are not remotely prepared for mentally, physically, spiritually, etc. they will have a reaction that is utterly out of context with the situation and behavior.

For example on a small scale, if someone lifts something that is way too heavy for them they might "laugh" at the pain because it is so shocking (many of us have probably done this....I don't quite know how to describe it).

On a larger scale, there are instances when someone finds out that a loved one has been seriously hurt or injured, or that they have passed away, and they go "oh....hahahahahaha!!!!!", or something because they simply don't have a remote understanding about how to process what they have just been told. Sometimes this can happen at a wake or funeral, too. They may just stand there bug eyed, trying to make jokes about something else, or may laugh. In no way do they find the situation funny in the slightest capacity, but their psyche just has no other way to react...if that makes any sense.

That is what I meant about Dylan having a "hysterical reaction" to what he was doing.

Jenn wrote:

Would either of you want to watch Dylan and Eric commit suicide?

No, definitely not.  Although I would've liked to have see their bodies before being checked for booby traps, in the original positions. It would end a lot of ineffable questions, such as whether Eric shot Dylan or vice versa.

JDM87 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Would either of you want to watch Dylan and Eric commit suicide?

No, definitely not.  Although I would've liked to have see their bodies before being checked for booby traps, in the original positions. It would end a lot of ineffable questions, such as whether Eric shot Dylan or vice versa.

Of course seeing their bodies just after they shot themselves is more morally reprehensible. Them shooting each other has no bearing on the actual massacre as they were both perpetrators. That is a theory that doesn't pertain to the deaths of the 13 other children.

JDM87 wrote:

I know it sounds macabre and extremely disturbing, but I would like to have seen the library murders. Not because I want to see innocent kids getting their heads blown off, but to see the state in which D+E were in, what they said, etc.

I actually want to see the library massacre too; I wanna see it right up to the point where they kill themselves. I want to know how everything went down, honestly. I wonder if they were lying about the library surveillance camera and kept the footage locked in the evidence vault? Now that would be something to leak aside from the basement tapes.

I dont think, I would have a problem with watching their suicides. I dont know, why I think this, but the fact that they choosed to do this, would reduce my fright. I also have seen videos of real suicides before and although they were not as bloody as Erics suicide, they did not really shock me. It mostly looked unreal, like in a movie.

In case of the victims, it would be different. I think, there are two possibilities: either watching the murderers would also feel very unreal, because I would be completely dissociated from the events. Or it would just give me a lot of horrific feelings, shock me and make me feel ashamed and guilty about my fascination for this case.

Quote :

BUT, I WOULD want to see Dylan and Eric's overall demeanors, facial expressions and their eyes, and I would definitely want to listen to what they were saying to see how removed they actually were from what they were doing. Because despite everything they said, thought, wrote, and ultimately did, I genuinely believe that they ended up ENTIRELY turning themselves "off" to do this.

I believe that Dylan's whooping and laughing was at least in part (if not ENTIRELY) a hysterical reaction to what he was doing. Different snippets that I have learned about regarding things Eric did, and they way he did them sound like a total disconnect from his own being.

In the "Lost Boys" documentary, a young woman named Heidi (I believe) said it was so creepy not only because they were actually doing what they were doing, but because they were "not there" and "blank" (or something to that effect). The way Bree Pasquale describes her exchange with Eric seems to me like he was almost in a robotic, otherworldly...just disconnected state of being. The exchange between the both of them and John Savage gives me that impression, as well; both Eric's "Identify yourself." statement, and Dylan's "Oh, just killing people..." response to Savage.

To my knowledge, what you describe here is a psychological phenomenon,  what is actually linked to rampage killings: Dissociation. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There are in fact a lot of hints, that dissociation plays a part in these kind of crimes:

- In most or at least a lot of cases, the Rampage is the first violent act, that the shooter commits in his life. But in nearly zero cases, the killer stops his actions after the potential shocking impression of his first kill.

- A lot of surviving shooters, describe that during the shooting, they had a feeling of dream-likeness and unreality. (Michael Carneal for example: "It was like in a dream and then I woke up")

- Some shooters claim that they have no or just fragmentary memories of their killings. (Again Michael Carneal, who later said, that he can barely remember the shooting, Luke Woodham, who in court claimed to have no memories of killing his mother, Mitchell Johnson, who claimed, that after he fired the first shot, he cant remember anything of the shooting...) This amnesia is especially a common part of the Amok phenomenon in Indonesia and Malaysia, where in nearly every case, the killer claims to have no memories of his acts.

- And last but not least, the DSM calls Amok a dissociative disorder.

I would love to be able to "live" though them.... Like take over their bodies (although I would not be able to change everything) I would just like to almost ride "Shotgun" and be able to see what they saw and heard, along with their personal thought going on. I would like to see the final 24 hours from both of their points of view.

deathmedic wrote:

I would love to be able to "live" though them.... Like take over their bodies (although I would not be able to change everything) I would just like to almost ride "Shotgun" and be able to see what they saw and heard, along with their personal thought going on. I would like to see the final 24 hours from both of their points of view.

You really would love this? Being in their bodies and not being able to stop them from killing those kids?

I would feel helpless and awfull and I probably would have ended up with a hell of a PTSS.
Sure, I get that you are just as curious about what actually happened that day as the rest of us, but I would have prefered to found out some other way. But whatever floats your boat:) 

Ha... I knew it would be misinterpreted by someone after all it is the interwebz...
No I would love to know what was going on in their minds, hear their thoughts see what they saw. Reread the OP he said "Changing Eric or/and Dylans minds isn't an option. You also have no control over how many people they kill." So with that said this is how I would want to view it.

Changing my answer:

Someone already mentioned it, but I would go back to the Library from 12pm to their suicides...I'm sorry but those 5-10 minutes will forever have us in question.

While we're mentioning things we'd like to watch, I would like to see what happened on the morning of 4/20 before the shooting. What were they REALLY doing in all that time? Which places that witnesses claimed to see them did they really go to?

The third shooter theory, also could be laid to rest.

Speaking of, I was watching the Evan Long video and his interview last night...

JohnnyB wrote:

Speaking of, I was watching the Evan Long video and his interview last night...

which video? I don´t think that there was a third shooter.

Jenn wrote:

tfsa47090 wrote:

JDM87 wrote:

I know it sounds macabre and extremely disturbing, but I would like to have seen the library murders. Not because I want to see innocent kids getting their heads blown off, but to see the state in which D+E were in, what they said, etc.

I think I understand exactly what you mean by this.

I think I would as well, but personally, I would want all of the victims' screams and other sounds removed, and I would want the victims to be entirely pixelated or completely blurred. I could not cope with watching and listening to them actually being murdered and injured.

BUT, I WOULD want to see Dylan and Eric's overall demeanors, facial expressions and their eyes, and I would definitely want to listen to what they were saying to see how removed they actually were from what they were doing. Because despite everything they said, thought, wrote, and ultimately did, I genuinely believe that they ended up ENTIRELY turning themselves "off" to do this.

I believe that Dylan's whooping and laughing was at least in part (if not ENTIRELY) a hysterical reaction to what he was doing. Different snippets that I have learned about regarding things Eric did, and they way he did them sound like a total disconnect from his own being.

In the "Lost Boys" documentary, a young woman named Heidi (I believe) said it was so creepy not only because they were actually doing what they were doing, but because they were "not there" and "blank" (or something to that effect). The way Bree Pasquale describes her exchange with Eric seems to me like he was almost in a robotic, otherworldly...just disconnected state of being. The exchange between the both of them and John Savage gives me that impression, as well; both Eric's "Identify yourself." statement, and Dylan's "Oh, just killing people..." response to Savage.

Would either of you want to watch Dylan and Eric commit suicide?

I couldn't watch the library murders or E&D's suicide. I couldn't stand by watch all that incredible violence (inside the same room) If all the deaths were caught on CCTV and were available to view ,i think i would (maybe) watch them. We have all seen CCTV footage about people being beaten up and killed ,etc. I found viewing those types of images very disturbing and yet ,i can talk about it quite freely?

I feel that no one would believe me at all if I go a notify about what is about to happen and nothing would stop them either, so if I turn back in time, I would like to go to the library in the moment of their suicides. How everything went down, what they did or said seconds before they shot themselvs and if they saw before that moment, all the death bodies around them.

I would want to either get the kids out of the library through the emergency exit (the one most of them eventually escaped from) or get them all locked in the room where Brian Anderson and a few others hid. Anything, but for them to be sitting ducks under the tables.

All right, I guess I better jump in here.

There was no third shooter, period. I saw TWO guys, that's it.

Also, to mrc123: The emergency exit leads right out to the hill where they started at. Might not have been a good idea. Plus I think we (and Mrs. Neilson) might've been in much too shock to even remember it was there at first.

Yumeko-chan, thank you so much again for your insights on this board. I guess what I meant is that if I were transported back in time and had the knowledge we have today, I would have tried to get everyone out the library's emergency exit. I understand though that in the moment, that would not have seemed like a good option. I don't fault anyone (Patty Nielson) for the decisions they made in those horrific circumstances.
On a personal note, I hope things are going better for you. A few months ago you mentioned that you were going through a difficult time.

Call my comrades and the moment we see the boys arrive at school we'd jump them and hog-tie them.

Yes I'm serious

I don't know. I would try to inform people of what was going to go on. I would rather go back to way before like to when they got the guns and yell at the 2 sets of parents and show them the arsenal.

If I was to go back to the 20 I am not sure what i would do. PUll the fire alarm? Alert the cops earlier? IDK

First of all I would try to alert the parents, principal DeAngealis, JeffCo Police Department, and maybe the whole town. But I doubt a single one of them would even listen to me.