Do you feel any sorrow for Eric and Dylan?

Its hard for me to feel that way about Eric and Dylan. They both receive ( at this very moment ) a massive amount of sympathy and love from their " fans ". There is an incredible number of web sites ( i'm sure many of you have seen some of them ) that are dedicated to Eric and Dylan. There is often no mention of the victims ,only of Eric and Dylan.
" They were bullied to a point so high and they could not take it any more ". 
Hmmm. Was Dylan an easy target for bullies? No not really.
" Hit men for hire ". Regarding Dylan's rant :
" No you goddamn piece of punk ass shi*! Do not mess with that frickin kid ,
If you do i will rip off your goddamn head and stick so far up your ass ...ect ( it may not be perfect word for word )
If someone bullied Dylan and was faced with that much anger ,what would they do? I think they would back down. 
Dylan was good at yelling and his angry performance was realistic. If i called him names and he replied with HFH rage ,i reckon i would back down and apologize. Who would want to mess with Dylan?
I can sympathize with anyone who has had to endure the horror of bullying. I can't condone NBK though. 
Why bully Eric ? He wasn't fat ' ugly or retarded. He was a hater of all that is different compared to him and a hater of himself?
There are ways to deal with ones self issues.
Attempting to murder hundreds of kids ( many of them were E/D's friends !!)
And murdering kids with guns ,close up and personal was unforgivable and beyond any kind of redemption. 
If i had been related or friends with a victim....I could not forgive and i would constantly carry the burden of unforgiveness. I guess that's just me. Could you forgive E/D if they murdered one of your loved ones??

Didn't Lance Kirkland say something like "I think Eric and Dylan are in hell now. I don't know if they'll have to stay there forever, or just until they learn their lesson. I feel really sorry for them that they put themselves in that position."

I think that says a lot. A guy that had his face half blown-off and permanently disfigured by E & D feels sorry for them.

Many people do and I think it is because they were truly "lost" boys.

On Dylan and bullying -- I think he was bullied, but he was also a pretty cold-hearted bully himself:

"When authorities asked Adam how he knew Dylan, Adam told them that Dylan had begun harassing him at school around November and December 1998. It got to the point where Adam's mother, Susan Kyler, reported it to the school authorities, who said they would take care of the problem; there were no further problems with Klebold after that. Previously Adam had told investigators that Dylan had been with a group of four kids in black trenchcoats had told him near Christmas 1998 that they would kill him if he went to class and that if he told anyone about the threats they would shoot him and also said at the time that these students were part of a group known as the Trench Coat Mafia. However, in a later interview with officials, he said he hadn't had any problems with any of the other Trench Coat Mafia students except for Dylan during the harrassment. He said then that while Dylan was harrassing him three other students, believed to be Trench Coat Mafia members, were with Dylan but that they weren't actually involved in the harrassment. Susan told investigators that Adam had a learning disability and that she believed it to be the reason Dylan had harrassed her son."

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I think Dylan had a grudge against special needs kids because of his mother's work with them and this is hardly a flattering or endearing thing to realize about him. He also writes in his journal about hazing "fags" and expresses feeling guilt about it. There are also scattered comments and testimony about his predilection for fighting.

I have always believed there were 15 victims, not 13. Yes, I feel "sorrow" for Dylan and Eric. I always have, from the time I became interested in the topic. In my opinion, Dylan and Eric were victims too. Victims of bullying, victims of mental illness, victims of suicide and victims of a shitty society that could have at least tried to helped them, instead of ignoring all the warning signs. Regardless of what people think, Dylan and Eric lost their lives too.

And I've heard this argument before, that they didn't "lose" their lives, they "took" their lives. But why did they feel that "taking" their lives was the only way out? I've also heard the arguments, "they weren't mentally sick". How could that be? Would any "mentally healthy" person want to kill everyone around them and they kill themselves? I don't think so.

As for the fans. Does me feeling this way make me one? God knows I've been accused of it, repeatedly. But honestly, I really don't give a shit if I am considered a "fan" or not. It doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion, Dylan and Eric were victims too.

One doesn't have to be "fat or ugly" to be bullied. And it is always easy, for the outsider to say, "there were ways you could have dealt with this". How do you know there are ways he could have "dealt" with it? You didn't live his life, you didn't walk in his shoes. You don't know if life was nothing but a torment for him every day. Obviously, he couldn't "deal" with it, now could he?

There is a difference between acting on video, in front of your friends, and being confronted by a bully or several of bullies who are trying to harass or beat the shit out of you. I really don't see how that is comparable at all. But to each his own, I guess.

Could I forgive Dylan and Eric if they had murdered my love one? I honestly don't know. I really don't. I'd like to think I'd be able to let go of all that hate and say I could forgive them, knowing the torment I believe they went through. But when I think about my family or my boyfriend, the thought of them being murdered, I honestly don't know if I could forgive them. I don't think I'd ever recover. I hope I never have to go through that and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Not even someone I hate.

I feel sympathy for everyone that was affected by Columbine. Dylan and Eric and their families included.

Jenn wrote:

In my opinion, Dylan and Eric were victims too. Victims of bullying, victims of mental illness, victims of suicide and victims of a shitty society that could have at least tried to helped them, instead of ignoring all the warning signs.

Amen.

I do feel sorrow for them the way I feel sorrow for all who were involved in the tragedy of this day. Jenn really phrased my thoughts on the subject quite well. I have always wondered what happened to them in their minds to make them feel that this was really the only way out, that this was all they had going for them.. Do I condone NBK? Absolutely not. Do I understand some of what they felt were their reasons why? You bet I do. It's saddening to me that this is the road they took in life that affected so many others so terribly. Just this week I was speaking elsewhere about what they would've been like as adults, and the thought of it was heartwrenching as much as it was annoying. Why couldn't they have just.. you know.. grown up and done something good with their lives? The fact that they felt that they didn't have the chance to build this future for themselves really tells me all I need to know. That's the kind of despair/hopelessness/pitch-black pit that you can't easily shake or survive on your own. It's that feeling that creates the carelessness toward the lives of others, too, and can be coupled with a feeling of grandeur/being godlike as a further separation point from humanity.

When I speak of the boys, I speak of them with sympathy and affection because that is what I received when I was in that pit. I survived that exact mindset and those moodswings and those delusions of grandeur and whatever else those kids were not equipped to deal with by themselves. I came out of it relatively intact, in the end, but it's been a long war with myself. When I speak of them, I have no choice but to forgive them even though I find their actions morally reprehensible at this point in time. To not forgive Eric and Dylan would feel too similar to not forgiving my teenage self for feeling/thinking the same way those two boys did. It has been my saving grace that my thoughts and feelings never made it into actions thanks to the kindness and help I reached out for and received. I have had to forgive myself as much as I have had to fight for my sanity and my life, and it is no great stretch for me to extend that same courtesy of empathy to two boys who lost their battle with themselves and took others with them in the end.

I speak about Dylan and Eric far more than I do about their victims for one reason only: everyone already agrees that their victims were innocent people caught in the crossfire of two unstable sick kids. It's always been my goal to try and bring some understanding and dialogue into the picture where the two boys are concerned, especially because what happened to them is something that continues to happen to kids nowadays and this whole attitude of "they were crazy psychopaths yaddayaddayadda" isn't helping to change what's going on today. Does that make me a fangirl? Honestly, as much as I 'mama-bear' over Eric and relate to Dylan.. I'd hope that people know the difference between utter fangirlishness and a simple strong dose of empathy/understanding.

gustopoet wrote:

Jenn wrote:

In my opinion, Dylan and Eric were victims too. Victims of bullying, victims of mental illness, victims of suicide and victims of a shitty society that could have at least tried to helped them, instead of ignoring all the warning signs.

Amen.

And what does this bring to the conversation? Nothing.

I thought it was a good post.

gustopoet wrote:

I thought it was a good post.

It's funny how you always think an Administrator makes a good post.

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

I thought it was a good post.

Yes, a simple "Amen" is a good post.

No, I thought Jenn's post was a good post. So I said "Amen."

gustopoet wrote:

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

I thought it was a good post.

Yes, a simple "Amen" is a good post.

No, I thought Jenn's post was a good post. So I said "Amen."

Is that why you always agree when an ADMINISTRATOR posts something?

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

I thought it was a good post.

Yes, a simple "Amen" is a good post.

No, I thought Jenn's post was a good post. So I said "Amen."

Is that why you always agree when an ADMINISTRATOR posts something?

Not always just admins. I think lots of people here make good posts. I've disagreed with Jenn. You're an admin. and we've debated a bit on threads.

gustopoet wrote:

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

I thought it was a good post.

Yes, a simple "Amen" is a good post.

No, I thought Jenn's post was a good post. So I said "Amen."

Is that why you always agree when an ADMINISTRATOR posts something?

Not always just admins. I think lots of people here make good posts. I've disagreed with Jenn. You're an admin. and we've debated a bit on threads.

Doesn't seem it.

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

Ivan wrote:

gustopoet wrote:

I thought it was a good post.

Yes, a simple "Amen" is a good post.

No, I thought Jenn's post was a good post. So I said "Amen."

Is that why you always agree when an ADMINISTRATOR posts something?

Not always just admins. I think lots of people here make good posts. I've disagreed with Jenn. You're an admin. and we've debated a bit on threads.

Doesn't seem it.

Yes it does.  

OK. That is enough. This is off topic and has nothing to do with this thread. Keep this arguing off of the board. Thank you.

thedragonrampant wrote:

When I speak of the boys, I speak of them with sympathy and affection because that is what I received when I was in that pit. I survived that exact mindset and those moodswings and those delusions of grandeur and whatever else those kids were not equipped to deal with by themselves. I came out of it relatively intact, in the end, but it's been a long war with myself. When I speak of them, I have no choice but to forgive them even though I find their actions morally reprehensible at this point in time. To not forgive Eric and Dylan would feel too similar to not forgiving my teenage self for feeling/thinking the same way those two boys did. It has been my saving grace that my thoughts and feelings never made it into actions thanks to the kindness and help I reached out for and received. I have had to forgive myself as much as I have had to fight for my sanity and my life, and it is no great stretch for me to extend that same courtesy of empathy to two boys who lost their battle with themselves and took others with them in the end.  

Thank you for sharing your experience, thedragonrampant. Because you've been there, you may be more able to appreciate how painful it is to be in that state of mind.

I agree with what thedragonrampant and Jenn already said.
I can feel sorrow for them, for the reason that I've partly been in their state at some point in my life and know those feelings' weight.
They were victims too, of bullies yes, but mostly victims of their own mind, and that's something hard to battle with - I'm sorry they've lost it, and I'm sorry they were so deeply into it that they thought the only way out was going on a killing spree (and killing themselves).
I still not condone what they did, nor I ever will, nor I think they're more important of the other victims.

(Also, about one of the OP points, I think anyone can be an easy target for bullying really, and despite the acting on camera Dylan was apparently goofy and awkward in his everyday life, it's probably one of the first things a bully would notice. Anyway there's no need for a reason to be bullied, they just want to be on top and degrade someone else, they have no reason? They make one up)

IMO, sorry if this is a little messed up but...

No. I do not feel sorrow for Eric and Dylan. No. Why do these guys get special treatment? You don't ever hear stuff about Cho, or any other school shooter whose done the same. Not many feel bad for them as they feel for Eric and Dylan. Let me just tell you one thing...it's bullchit. Just because these guys were teenagers is the top reason why a lot of feel bad for them ,because they were so "young and didn't know what they were doing". This is the excuses. Excuses, excuses, excuses all for Eric and Dylan. You know what? Screw them. They don't deserve any type of excuse. These guys had talent, and didn't know what to do with it. These guys pissed away their lives in an instant. They used their talent for the wrong reasons. I don't care what you guys think on how E&D didn't know what they were doing because they were young. Yeah, right. Bull crap. They've been planning this for OVER A YEAR. They knew EXACTLY what they were going to do. Any "insane" person wouldn't plan out what they did. If these two lived, they would have gotten the death sentence. I hate E&D for taking away those innocent victims who had nothing to do with their disturbed mind. I wish these two losers just committed suicide, and not take anyone else with them. People like this make me sick.

There is NO EXCUSE for murder. None.
By the way, you guys wouldn't make this topic If YOUR child was shot to death by these runts.

I hope these two ba*tards enjoy hell (if there is one). Honestly, I feel for their parents. They seemed really nice to be honest. Eric and Dylan? Screw those a-holes.

I think that a lot of the reason so many feel sympathy or in my case a 'motherly' feeling toward E/D is that they killed themselves. They are lost forever and we aren't really sure why. I don't feel that way toward the Jonesboro shooters (who were a lot younger), Kip Kinkel (lived very close to where I am) or any other school shooter that lived. I can't say why.

I definitely don't feel any sympathy to Cho. Maybe because he came across so damn unlikeable on his tapes. Maybe seeing E/D goofing around like a couple of teenagers on their many tapes made them seem more human or likable. Perhaps if I saw the basement tapes, I would lose all sympathy and be disgusted by them like I am toward Cho. Jeffco may be the reason E/D still have so many admirers. If they just let us see them on those tapes, we may turn on them too.

Or, maybe part of my sympathy for them comes from their parents being so visible and in the Klebolds case, so sympathetic. Does anyone even know the name of any other school shooters parents?

The reason why people feel more synpathy thowards E/D rather than other school/mass shooters might be because we got to know so much (yet not enough) about them.
I don't know how much stuff there's around about the other shooters because honestly I never researched into that, but we've read E/D journals and writings that said a lot about them/what they felt, we saw them on tape, around friends. Maybe if we didn't see that, they would be just 'kids who shoot up their school' and 'evil bastards', but reading through their personal life made people see they were humans too, two teenagers like me and you all have been, with their loves and hates, their fun moments and their problems.
Troubled humans who decided to do what they did, but humans, because we didn't see just their 'evil' side

Of course, I feel sorry for them! Just as much as I feel sorry for those who were murdered, injured and their families; including the Harris' and Klebold's (who are probably taking this harder)

Jenn wrote:

I have always believed there were 15 victims, not 13. Yes, I feel "sorrow" for Dylan and Eric. I always have, from the time I became interested in the topic. In my opinion, Dylan and Eric were victims too. Victims of bullying, victims of mental illness, victims of suicide and victims of a shitty society that could have at least tried to helped them, instead of ignoring all the warning signs. Regardless of what people think, Dylan and Eric lost their lives too.

And I've heard this argument before, that they didn't "lose" their lives, they "took" their lives. But why did they feel that "taking" their lives was the only way out? I've also heard the arguments, "they weren't mentally sick". How could that be? Would any "mentally healthy" person want to kill everyone around them and they kill themselves? I don't think so.

As for the fans. Does me feeling this way make me one? God knows I've been accused of it, repeatedly. But honestly, I really don't give a shit if I am considered a "fan" or not. It doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion, Dylan and Eric were victims too.

One doesn't have to be "fat or ugly" to be bullied. And it is always easy, for the outsider to say, "there were ways you could have dealt with this". How do you know there are ways he could have "dealt" with it? You didn't live his life, you didn't walk in his shoes. You don't know if life was nothing but a torment for him every day. Obviously, he couldn't "deal" with it, now could he?

There is a difference between acting on video, in front of your friends, and being confronted by a bully or several of bullies who are trying to harass or beat the shit out of you. I really don't see how that is comparable at all. But to each his own, I guess.

Could I forgive Dylan and Eric if they had murdered my love one? I honestly don't know. I really don't. I'd like to think I'd be able to let go of all that hate and say I could forgive them, knowing the torment I believe they went through. But when I think about my family or my boyfriend, the thought of them being murdered, I honestly don't know if I could forgive them. I don't think I'd ever recover. I hope I never have to go through that and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Not even someone I hate.

I feel sympathy for everyone that was affected by Columbine. Dylan and Eric and their families included.

Hi Jenn , you said that shi**y society should have helped E/D and missed all the warning signs.
What has society got to do with this? Society consist of people on the outside of E/D's world. Strangers.
If E/D's own parents missed all the warning signs ,how was society expected to do otherwise ?
Its so easy to blame society because society is a nameless and faceless entity. 
When i spoke of E/D's " fans " i was referring to the scumbag idiots who believe that NBK was an awesome event.
These idiots talk crap and do that just to upset the victims and their families.
If E/D had killed one of my loved ones i couldn't forgive them and i would feel nothing but anger and disgust.
If these two gutless punks killed my sister and then topped themselves i would want revenge and i always would.

rik75 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

I have always believed there were 15 victims, not 13. Yes, I feel "sorrow" for Dylan and Eric. I always have, from the time I became interested in the topic. In my opinion, Dylan and Eric were victims too. Victims of bullying, victims of mental illness, victims of suicide and victims of a shitty society that could have at least tried to helped them, instead of ignoring all the warning signs. Regardless of what people think, Dylan and Eric lost their lives too.

And I've heard this argument before, that they didn't "lose" their lives, they "took" their lives. But why did they feel that "taking" their lives was the only way out? I've also heard the arguments, "they weren't mentally sick". How could that be? Would any "mentally healthy" person want to kill everyone around them and they kill themselves? I don't think so.

As for the fans. Does me feeling this way make me one? God knows I've been accused of it, repeatedly. But honestly, I really don't give a shit if I am considered a "fan" or not. It doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion, Dylan and Eric were victims too.

One doesn't have to be "fat or ugly" to be bullied. And it is always easy, for the outsider to say, "there were ways you could have dealt with this". How do you know there are ways he could have "dealt" with it? You didn't live his life, you didn't walk in his shoes. You don't know if life was nothing but a torment for him every day. Obviously, he couldn't "deal" with it, now could he?

There is a difference between acting on video, in front of your friends, and being confronted by a bully or several of bullies who are trying to harass or beat the shit out of you. I really don't see how that is comparable at all. But to each his own, I guess.

Could I forgive Dylan and Eric if they had murdered my love one? I honestly don't know. I really don't. I'd like to think I'd be able to let go of all that hate and say I could forgive them, knowing the torment I believe they went through. But when I think about my family or my boyfriend, the thought of them being murdered, I honestly don't know if I could forgive them. I don't think I'd ever recover. I hope I never have to go through that and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Not even someone I hate.

I feel sympathy for everyone that was affected by Columbine. Dylan and Eric and their families included.

Hi Jenn , you said that shi**y society should have helped E/D and missed all the warning signs.
What has society got to do with this? Society consist of people on the outside of E/D's world. Strangers.
If E/D's own parents missed all the warning signs ,how was society expected to do otherwise ?
Its so easy to blame society because society is a nameless and faceless entity. 
When i spoke of E/D's " fans " i was referring to the scumbag idiots who believe that NBK was an awesome event.
These idiots talk crap and do that just to upset the victims and their families.
If E/D had killed one of my loved ones i couldn't forgive them and i would feel nothing but anger and disgust.
If these two gutless punks killed my sister and then topped themselves i would want revenge and i always would.

Society isn't "faceless". Society is the principal who knew about the bullying but allowed it to happen because he favored jocks. Society is the psychiatrist who knew Eric was having suicidal and homicidal thoughts, but just ignored it. Society is the person at a gun show who allows the purchase of guns to boys who are 17 years old, knew the guns were for them, knew they were 17 and just told them to come back with a friend who was 18. Society is the police who knew Eric was troubled, KNEW about his violent internet websites threatening to harm people, but decided not to do his job and follow up on it. THAT was Eric and Dylan's society. Do you know the definition of society?

Society is thought of as a group of people living together in the same community, how is that "outside" of Dylan and Eric's world and how is that faceless and nameless? These boy were children, they showed signs of being troubled and anyone who could have helped them in THEIR society ignored them and just brushed it off. They didn't want to be bothered.

And you're right, their parents missed warning signs because children are like that with their parents. They don't open up to them. But there WERE people Dylan and Eric opened up to. There were people who witnessed what was going on with them. All of it ignored. Even Brooks Brown said there were over a million warning signs. But not one single person gave a shit. Not one single person did anything. In my opinion, society is to blame just as much as Dylan and Eric.

I feel more sorrow for the victims. But I do feel bad for Eric and Dylan. They were normal kids for the most part. I think the thing that intrigues me the most is that I have a very similar life to Eric (military family, moving around a lot etc.) and I love video games. I wish they could of overcame their bloodlust. I think they didn`t see that life could of been very good after high school

Yes, I feel sorrow towards Eric and Dylan as well as towards any other mass shooter. I just imagine, what a human being must feel and experience in the inside, to feel the wish to carry out such acts.

And I honestly cant understand how someone can not feel sorrow for Cho...his story is one of the most sad and touching mass shooter biographies ever, if you ask me.

The reason, hale-bopp is because Cho was not a semi-attractive young white American boy. Simple as that.

ThoughtBox wrote:

The reason, hale-bopp is because Cho was not a semi-attractive young white American boy. Simple as that.

Very likely. Doesn't make any difference for me, though.

Hale-Bopp wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:

The reason, hale-bopp is because Cho was not a semi-attractive young white American boy. Simple as that.

Very likely. Doesn't make any difference for me, though.

I think as well it has much to do with the fact that he was Asian, not to sound "racist" at all. I think that it's much easier for the media to demonize someone who is a foreigner in a majority of white people than it is with people of the same race. I think this is one of the major reasons that Columbine had such a major impact.

My feelings regarding Columbine are usually going back and forth. Sometimes I am emotional about it and sometimes I can see things more from a distance. So..Usually I do feel sorry for them, but at the same time I feel anger towards them for killing all those innocent childeren and a teacher. They just pissed their lives away and made sure that other young people coulnd't grow up anymore.
On the other hand I can see that a smalltown-republic-fundamentalistic christianic-mentallity with a madning know-it-all approach is something that would make a lot of people pissed off to the point you can't take it no more. That's no excuse for bombing or shooting up your school, but I can feel some sympathy coming from that angle.

Also I am also taken in consideration that there were mental issues, like depression and such...And still no excuse, but like I said before, my thoughts and feelings are all over the place about Columbine and Eric and Dyan.

I hope my post is not to incomprehensible, because it is really hard to explain

Can someone message or link me to Cho's story? I'm curious.

Nope. They were too narrow-minded to see the wrong in their choice. But then again, they both weren't mentally stable, so I do feel some pity for them. They walked down the wrong path, dragging other innocent people with them for their own selfish aim.

I feel bad that they had a cup of fecal matter, ketchup, and feminine products thrown at them. How embarrassing that must have been. I feel bad that they were in poor mental states. I feel bad that high school wasn't enjoyable for them. They should have some sympathy, however...

I feel worse for their families. I feel worse for the victims families, the injured and their families, the witnesses in the library... I personally don't think it's right to feel more sorrow for Eric and Dylan than these people. Some people are so extreme with the "poor Eric and Dylan" stuff, it's like a slap in the face to the people they hurt back. No condiment squirted at them compares to what they did that day, what they carried out... Welp.

P.S. I have more sympathy for Dylan than Eric. I'm guessing many can agree on that?

To an extent.  I don't know if it's wrong to sympathize with people that are considered "bad", but whatever.  And no, i'm not one of the people that wishes that the bombs would've gone off.  I feel sorry for anyone that gets to the point where they want to kill as many people as possible.  Because that doesn't happen overnight.  And E/D probably weren't homicidal/suicidal their entire lives.  It's a sad process of going from a happy normal kid to a hate-filled teenager.  It's a long process of becoming homicial, building so much hatred and rage against the world that failed you.  No sane, mentally stable person with an easy life would randomly decide to shoot up a school just for the heck of it.  And NBK wasn't done "just for the heck of it".  There are so many underlying causes and variables that no one will know exactly why.  It's unfortunate that E/D didn't get help on time.  All these years, everyone missed the warning signs.  Eric and Dylan were just too smart.

Yes i do feel sorrow for all the victims and for killers as well . I just can not understand why they did it ,if they were intelligent how come they did not think about the aftermath ,the consequences the pain they are going to cause to their family ,to other family's , to the world? They were smart , and as a smart people they could make a better choice
not kill everybody,
the thing i learned in life ,is everything changes ,everything comes to an end ,the good things but also the bad things you just have to find something that will help you to endure .Enduring is the hardest the most painful process but it is the most necessary if you want to stay alive.How come it did not hit them :"Im going to kill someone, that is horrible, do i want to be a killer ,do i want to be known to the world as a killer i mean my parents are going to be known as people who raised killers ,am i normal ,i m going to kill somebody s children." i do not know ... but i do feel sorry i can not say what i do not feel, only what i do .im sorry if i am stupid for feeling like this ,but E&D were also someones kids . They did have mental problems ,they used meds ,they were bullied and so i tend to think they were not themselves while killing .

Its easy for me to have sympathy due to the fact that I was in the same position at their age mentally. I've battled depression, anxiety, and a few other problems since I was 13. I was also picked on heavily during highschool. On the other hand though I never shot my fellow students up so I guess its easy for me to feel for them up until they carried out NBK.

There are a few people here who hate E &D and make no secret of it, but most of us here have some sort a of sympathy and empathy for them. The levels of both vary from person to person.

I think that although their actions were horrendous and nobody deserved to die that day, I still feel sorry for them and believe all humans do actions for a reason. I can sympathise for them and understand their anger and frustration towards society and life. I am a strong believer in forgiveness so I do not think there is a need to have anger towards them.

I find it hard to feel sorry for them. They were vile creatures.

Had they just offed themselves, yeah I could feel sorry for them. To take all those other people with them because they'd had enough of life - is unacceptable in my book.

gutenfxckintag wrote:

P.S. I have more sympathy for Dylan than Eric. I'm guessing many can agree on that?

Hell no. Dylan was worse than Eric.

Btw as I said a few years ago...how in the world anyone possibly feel sympathy for these MF's? Excuse my language but these POS' killed people who had nothing to do with them. They stole lives of innocent kids who had NOTHING to do with them. If they shot the jerk offs who actually bullied them in '97-'98...well that's a different story. I'd feel a bit sympathetic, but to kill freshman...sophomores...who had nothing to do with them, and were just at the wrong place and wrong time. Rot in pieces Eric & Dylan. Make no mistake. You may have been kids but that is one of the big reasons why people try and feel sympathy. You don't hear anyone out there having sympathy for Elliot Rodger, Jeff Weise, James Holmes, Adam Lanza, or Cho from VT.

Why the hell should these 2 kids be any different? Again. Rot in pieces Eric & Dylan. You pissed away your own lives as well...and ruined your parents. They will never get over it, nor ever forget it.

No sympathy. AT ALL. Fuck them.

lol wrote:

You may have been kids but that is one of the big reasons why people try and feel sympathy. You don't hear anyone out there having sympathy for Elliot Rodger, Jeff Weise, James Holmes, Adam Lanza, or Cho from VT.

I have some... maybe not so much sympathy but compassion for Jeff Weise, Adam and Cho. Each of them had a shitty life, suffered and had mental ilness (Cho and Adam did, Jeff - I'm still not certain he was insane, but he was certainly abused by adults as a small kid).

Frankly, I have far more compassion for Jeff Weise than for Eric, Dylan and pretty much most other shooters. Jeff would love to have the sort of life E&D had. Jeff had a mother who abused him, drank, locked jeff in small dark rooms for hours on end, brought home strange men who bullied him. His dad commited suicide by cop. Jeff was in and out of foster care, ended up with gramps who didn't seem to care about him at all. All this at a piss-poor indian reservation, with other native american kids wanting to be black and laughing at Jeff because he was proud to be native. Jeff became interested in columbine, nazism and nationalism because he had nobody to turn to.

I'm not saying what Jeff did was good or justified. But I am saying Jeff was abused, let down by his parents, grew up in a very poor area and was alienated by his own people for seeing value in his own culture. Jeff drew the short stick in life and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even be a shooter if he had a life like Eric.

Sabratha wrote:

lol wrote:

You may have been kids but that is one of the big reasons why people try and feel sympathy. You don't hear anyone out there having sympathy for Elliot Rodger, Jeff Weise, James Holmes, Adam Lanza, or Cho from VT.

I have some... maybe not so much sympathy but compassion for Jeff Weise, Adam and Cho. Each of them had a shitty life, suffered and had mental ilness (Cho and Adam did, Jeff  - I'm still not certain he was insane, but he was certainly abused by adults as a small kid).

Frankly, I have far more compassion for Jeff Weise than for Eric, Dylan and pretty much most other shooters. Jeff would love to have the sort of life E&D had. Jeff had a mother who abused him, drank, locked jeff in small dark rooms for hours on end, brought home strange men who bullied him. His dad commited suicide by cop. Jeff was in and out of foster care, ended up with gramps who didn't seem to care about him at all. All this at a piss-poor indian reservation, with other native american kids wanting to be black and laughing at Jeff because he was proud to be native. Jeff became interested in columbine, nazism and nationalism because he had nobody to turn to.

I'm not saying what Jeff did was good or justified. But I am saying Jeff was abused, let down by his parents, grew up in a very poor area and was alienated by his own people for seeing value in his own culture. Jeff drew the short stick in life and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even be a shooter if he had a life like Eric.

Oh don't get me wrong. I miswrote what I said. I meant to say there are not as many people who feel sorrow or sympathy for other shooters. Eric & Dylan seem to have the most sympathy just because they were high schoolers.

IMO they are pieces of garbage, and foolish human beings for doing such a deed.

I believe that nobody is a piece of garbage. Each life has worth and value. Each life lost is a loss .
I know you hate them but so I don't expect to change your mind but I feel this needs to be said.
Also, anyone who has come close to dying probably understands that E &D have already paid the ultimate penalty for their actions . Yes, I know they killed themselves but they are gone for good. It's not like they are in the Bahamas living it up. Again, I don't expect to change your mind. Just some alternative thoughts.

lol wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

lol wrote:

You may have been kids but that is one of the big reasons why people try and feel sympathy. You don't hear anyone out there having sympathy for Elliot Rodger, Jeff Weise, James Holmes, Adam Lanza, or Cho from VT.

I have some... maybe not so much sympathy but compassion for Jeff Weise, Adam and Cho. Each of them had a shitty life, suffered and had mental ilness (Cho and Adam did, Jeff  - I'm still not certain he was insane, but he was certainly abused by adults as a small kid).

Frankly, I have far more compassion for Jeff Weise than for Eric, Dylan and pretty much most other shooters. Jeff would love to have the sort of life E&D had. Jeff had a mother who abused him, drank, locked jeff in small dark rooms for hours on end, brought home strange men who bullied him. His dad commited suicide by cop. Jeff was in and out of foster care, ended up with gramps who didn't seem to care about him at all. All this at a piss-poor indian reservation, with other native american kids wanting to be black and laughing at Jeff because he was proud to be native. Jeff became interested in columbine, nazism and nationalism because he had nobody to turn to.

I'm not saying what Jeff did was good or justified. But I am saying Jeff was abused, let down by his parents, grew up in a very poor area and was alienated by his own people for seeing value in his own culture. Jeff drew the short stick in life and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even be a shooter if he had a life like Eric.

Oh don't get me wrong. I miswrote what I said. I meant to say there are not as many people who feel sorrow or sympathy for other shooters. Eric & Dylan seem to have the most sympathy just because they were high schoolers.

IMO they are pieces of garbage, and foolish human beings for doing such a deed.

lol wrote:

Oh don't get me wrong. I miswrote what I said. I meant to say there are not as many people who feel sorrow or sympathy for other shooters. Eric & Dylan seem to have the most sympathy just because they were high schoolers.

I frankly think they get more sympathy because:

1) Their story was widely told, TIME magazine etc. Their journals were made public. They had more exposure than other shooters.
2) They were a duo, this always attracts more symopathy than a lone gunman.
3) They commited suicide and Dylan wote about depression in his journal. This attracted sympathy from teens who have similar issues (or so they think).
4) CHS had a bully problem, E&D were harasssed and at least initially the press overstressed the bullying aspect of the shooting and also made E&D seem to be outcast goths. This got support from actual outcast teens or people who were bullying victims.
5) There's the whole "oh they are cute!" fangirl thing. Certainly will not happen with Cho, Jeff Weise or Adam Lanza.
6) Last but not least, they were middle class white kids from a good neighbourhood. people coldn't just scratch them off as delusional black teens on drugs etc.

I feel as sorry for them as for any other victim of the shooting.
The 15 wooden crosses were a very accurate symbol.

I mean, how much life experience, or wisdom, or knowledge does a person have at 17? How much does one understand the other person's suffering, or mortality, or the consequences of one's actions?

So if for anything, I am sorry that two intelligent, bright kids, who have had their whole lives ahead of them, had chosen to destroy themselves and to hurt those who had done nothing to them in the name of some vague idea of retribution or notoriety or "godliness" or whatever their ideas of natural selection were, they had wired themselves mutually into.

I don't believe any one of them, Eric or Dylan, is any less to blame - they both fed each other's violence and rage, they wanted to do it, and they got what they wanted - everlasting infamy, nationwide attention and even followers, like Cho, Holmes or Lanza.

And if anything else, am sorry that Eric and Dylan had not been helped, because - how are you supposed to even know you need psychological or psychiatric help at that age, and understand that you need help? The sickness of the mind is such that it doesn't really hurt, like when you have a toothache.

I don't feel sorrow that they are dead. I know that will sound cruel, but they did something awful and they had to be punished for that. Death is the ultimate punishment. I think on some level they knew that they deserved to die.

I do feel sorrow that they allowed hatred and misery to posses their hearts. I can't imagine how much hate they must have felt.

I feel that I owe lol a little bit of an apology. I couldn't disagree with him more and I was only trying to express that disagreement. But I don't want to make it seem as if I'm trying to shush him up from, expressing him opinions.

I must state that I feel a lot of sympathy for many people widely seen as not deserving or any sympathy or mercy by most of the population.
It is not just E &D that I feel much sympathy and empathy for.
It has always been a part of my makeup to feel sympathy and understanding for those that most do not feel deserve any.

I have sympathy for them. They were human beings. But to me it's a matter of perspective. They knew what they were doing, I think that's clear based on their actions and writings. And it's not like they were just vandalizing property or something. 17/18 years old or not, they knew what they were doing was wrong, and they didn't care. They weren't stupid. I don't want to let them off the hook just because they were troubled or young. It wasn't even like they were too imbalanced to know better; they planned it for at least a year. So my sympathy for them exists, but has limits. If anything, I feel much more sympathy for their parents (and the parents of those killed or wounded) than I do for Eric and Dylan, who got what they wanted and didn't hang around to deal with the consequences.

I feel sad for them because they were obviously suffering and mentally ill to even consider doing what they did. However I feel much more sympathy for the victims and their families as well as Eric and Dylan's families.

Its probably better that they have gone rather than living and waiting around for a trial and witnesses in court and all that kind of ordeal. My history teacher once said that sometimes for the greater good of society some people just have to go.