Adam Lanza on being Raped as a Child

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Mr Bubbless wrote:

The reason I find this of note is because of the fact that Adams former psychiatrist plead guilty to sexual assault a few years back

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What are your thoughts on this? Is this possibly why Adam seemed so infatuated with the concept of paedophilia in general?

The psychiatrist's molestation charges and Adam's preoccupation don't seem connected. The psychiatrist was arrested after victimizing a teenage girl, not a young boy, and the discomfort Adam is describing in his paragraph is obviously referring to his discomfort with a physical examination. Maybe Adam thought that his experience with doctors was what caused him to look at pedophilia differently, but if it was then we'll never know for sure.

No, this note is definitely not about a sexual assault. I think those examinations are extremely uncomfortable for most children, but kids learn to get over it like with everything else that’s uncomfortable but inevitable. Most people will not tell about being traumatized by something so “normal” (even if they are) and would probably laugh if asked, so it can’t be really assumed that virtually none are traumatized.

Edit: and trauma can sometimes lead to developing a fetish or a paraphilia (not sure about using this word). That’s what I initially meant to say and I have no idea why I forgot about it. But that was not necessarily the case with Adam.

In his direct messages with an online user who goes by "SixteenBitElder" he describes an encounter with a doctor in which he portrays the doctor as being unnecessarily touchy stating "I think he's in love with me." If you wish to learn more about his his research into pedophilia I recommend reading his "pbear" essay, and some of the things he brings up on the old forums, including in a couple private mesages.

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Mr Bubbless wrote:

Please tell me what medical “examination” requires repeated stroking of a penis

“Stroking” and “fondling” was most likely an exaggerated choice of words to emphasize how the examinations are traumatic and not dissimilar to rape. He said that it happens to every child and everyone thinks there is nothing wrong with it. There’s no way to know for sure if he was ever molested, but this note isn’t about it.

Mr Bubbless wrote:

even though I agree with what you said regarding peoples differentiating trauma I still think that even if it was a proper medical practice that does not mean that he couldn’t have experienced long term consequences from it

He could. Things don’t suddenly become non-traumatizing for everyone only by virtue of being socially accepted.

Honestly I wonder if there's more to Adam's claims than some people might initially think. His relationship with pedophilia was odd to say the least, and he may well have adopted his stance on pedophilia and sexual assault (which seemed to jump all over the place at times) in response to some kind of trauma he carried. CSA is also unfortunately very common, so it wouldn't be unlikely either judging by statistics (IIRC one in six boys are molested at some point in their lives). Ultimately I don't think we'll ever know for sure though. I doubt he would have told anyone in person, and online he didn't speak in straightforward terms when it came to this subject.

morgenroede wrote:

No, this note is definitely not about a sexual assault. I think those examinations are extremely uncomfortable for most children, but kids learn to get over it like with everything else that’s uncomfortable but inevitable. Most people will not tell about being traumatized by something so “normal” (even if they are) and would probably laugh if asked, so it can’t be really assumed that virtually none are traumatized.

Edit: and trauma can sometimes lead to developing a fetish or a paraphilia (not sure about using this word). That’s what I initially meant to say and I have no idea why I forgot about it. But that was not necessarily the case with Adam.

Here people would weigh you, measure your height with that metal thing or stare you in the mouth. Worst case scenario doctors and/or nurses would make derogatory comments, crack jokes at your expense or ask you weird stuff (do you have bulimia/anorexia/whatever).
But nobody would touch your genitals during a medical examination. I guess maybe if you started complaining that they hurt or that you got a weird rash or something. But I never had my private parts touched as a child by a doctor. Guess its a case of a cultural difference between Poland and the US.

Back to Adam - I think it was probably more traumatic for him than for other kids, because Adam (not unlike many people on the autism spectrum) hated being touched. Even going to the hairdresser was a very annoying thing for him. So while I doubt the doctor actually "raped" him, I can easily see how that examination would be far more traumatic for him than for other kids.

majipan wrote:

Honestly I wonder if there's more to Adam's claims than some people might initially think. His relationship with pedophilia was odd to say the least, and he may well have adopted his stance on pedophilia and sexual assault (which seemed to jump all over the place at times) in response to some kind of trauma he carried. CSA is also unfortunately very common, so it wouldn't be unlikely either judging by statistics (IIRC one in six boys are molested at some point in their lives). Ultimately I don't think we'll ever know for sure though. I doubt he would have told anyone in person, and online he didn't speak in straightforward terms when it came to this subject.

Yeah I think we are certainly in the "we will never know for sure" territory. But somehow I doubt it was the doctor/nurse involved in that specific examination.

So for a second let us assume Adam really was sexually molested as a kid, who could? Seeing how his family history was and how little time he spent outside his home and family circle, I think we would be down to a short list:
- his brother
- his mother
- one of his elementary teachers
- one of the psychologists

I'm not saying that any of these is extremely likely, rather I'm making a case that Adam was probably less at risk than most kids, because he had less interactions through his life than most other people. This plus the fact that his dad and his dad's side of the family didn't seem to visit them or interact with him much at all.

So perhaps the most curious possible scenario would be that he was molested as an elementary school student by a teacher (at that age its probably quite unlikely it was another elementary student as in America they would be age 10 at most - then it'd be bullying/sexual shaming more than rape). Would this be the reason why he chose the school as his target?

I'm not at all convinced that he was sexually molested, I'm just "thinking out loud" here.

.

Mr Bubbless wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

I'm making a case that Adam was probably less at risk than most kids, because he had less interactions through his life than most other people. This plus the fact that his dad and his dad's side of the family didn't seem to visit them or interact with him much at all.

Then again, you could also use that same argument to suggest that because he had barely anyone to turn to, it actually could've made it harder to reach out if he was assaulted.

That's certainly true.

I think that Adam's autism may have had a role to play, as he could have misinterpreted what the Doctor was doing and was extremely uncomfortable during that examination but I wouldn't say it is out of the realm of possibility that he was touched inappropriately which could have led to his stances on pedophilia later in life.

Sabratha wrote:

Here people would weigh you, measure your height with that metal thing or stare you in the mouth. Worst case scenario doctors and/or nurses would make derogatory comments, crack jokes at your expense or ask you weird stuff (do you have bulimia/anorexia/whatever).
But nobody would touch your genitals during a medical examination. I guess maybe if you started complaining that they hurt or that you got a weird rash or something. But I never had my private parts touched as a child by a doctor. Guess its a case of a cultural difference between Poland and the US.

I’m not from the US either, but where I live children have their private parts examined by doctors. I could never be coerced or convinced into it, though, as with anything else that I hated. I was an extraordinarily disobedient child. It’s still a mystery to me how my parents managed not to kill me at age five.

Sabratha wrote:

Back to Adam - I think it was probably more traumatic for him than for other kids, because Adam (not unlike many people on the autism spectrum) hated being touched. Even going to the hairdresser was a very annoying thing for him. So while I doubt the doctor actually "raped" him, I can easily see how that examination would be far more traumatic for him than for other kids.

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant by saying that some “normal” and socially acceptable things can be outright traumatizing for some people. Even if Adam wasn’t really molested, regular physical examinations must have been enough to have a trauma-like impact on him (also, it’s sort of bizarre how Nancy warned her friend not to touch Adam at all, not even shake his hand, but apparently had no problem with the doctors touching him all over). Was he right that kids should decide for themselves? I doubt there is a definite and objective answer, and tbh I don’t really care. One thing I can say with some degree of certainty is that projecting your own unpleasant childhood experiences - or your experiences in general - onto the whole world is probably very wrong. Looks like I also made this mistake in my previous post and have to correct myself - I have absolutely no idea what most children think or feel.

Mr Bubbless wrote:

morgenroede wrote:

No, this note is definitely not about a sexual assault. I think those examinations are extremely uncomfortable for most children, but kids learn to get over it like with everything else that’s uncomfortable but inevitable. Most people will not tell about being traumatized by something so “normal” (even if they are) and would probably laugh if asked, so it can’t be really assumed that virtually none are traumatized.

Edit: and trauma can sometimes lead to developing a fetish or a paraphilia (not sure about using this word). That’s what I initially meant to say and I have no idea why I forgot about it. But that was not necessarily the case with Adam.

Please tell me what medical "examination" requires repeated stroking of a penis, besides even though I agree with what you said regarding peoples differentiating trauma I still think that even if it was a proper medical practice that does not mean that he couldn't have experienced long term consequences from it.

The only thing I can think of is the condition where the foreskin is too tight around the penis, as a result, the foreskin will not retract and causes infection. So 'stroking' might be trying to pull the foreskin back... But it's a stretch because (and I cannot believe I am saying this) we know nothing about his penis or his medical history. We can't say it is or isn't the truth because he's not here to tell us the full picture. GENERALLY in the case of foreskin that doesn't retract, the patient needs to be circumcised because it's problematic later on for both cleanliness and because it makes it near impossible for some of them to have sex without discomfort.

morgenroede wrote:

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant by saying that some “normal” and socially acceptable things can be outright traumatizing for some people.

In all fairness this is because most (maybe all) societies have, at some point, condoned, celebrated, or excused genuinely horrific acts.

QuestionMark wrote:

In all fairness this is because most (maybe all) societies have, at some point, condoned, celebrated, or excused genuinely horrific acts.

Yeah, the way “normal” was/is defined throughout history and cultures can often appear quite gruesome from our modern and dare I say civilized (Adam would have definitely disapproved of using this word in a positive sense lol) Western perspective. It’s kind of funny (in a disturbing way) how some of us - many of us, if not most or even all - who believe things like slavery, infanticide, child marriage, etc. to be obviously and inarguably wrong may have been staunch supporters of the exact same things in a different time/place/culture context. When I was like 9 and got my hands on some not really age-appropriate historical novels, I was perplexed by how people “in the past” (haha) could willingly suffer and make their children suffer, explain it away by religion or any other traditions and customs, and not see any wrong in it. Now I’m not.

(And who is to say that we are fundamentally different from those poor unenlightened “people from the past” with their backward ideas of normalcy?..)

SilverMoxie wrote:

In his direct messages with an online user who goes by "SixteenBitElder" he describes an encounter with a doctor in which he portrays the doctor as being unnecessarily touchy stating "I think he's in love with me." If you wish to learn more about his his research into pedophilia I recommend reading his "pbear" essay, and some of the things he brings up on the old forums, including in a couple private mesages.

Do you know where I can find the “pbear” essay? I believe it’s different from the pedophilia essay he wrote in college if I’m not mistaken, but I haven’t read it before and can’t find it on the internet.

Carnifex879 wrote:

SilverMoxie wrote:

In his direct messages with an online user who goes by "SixteenBitElder" he describes an encounter with a doctor in which he portrays the doctor as being unnecessarily touchy stating "I think he's in love with me." If you wish to learn more about his his research into pedophilia I recommend reading his "pbear" essay, and some of the things he brings up on the old forums, including in a couple private mesages.

Do you know where I can find the “pbear” essay? I believe it’s different from the pedophilia essay he wrote in college if I’m not mistaken, but I haven’t read it before and can’t find it on the internet.

Nah it's the same thing, his documents get thrown around with different titles but pbear was the name Adam gave it if I'm not mistaken

Any unwanted touching is assault as defined by law.  This is pretty clear and consistent throughout the US. What this means is, it doesn't matter what the intention of the "toucher" is - if you or I do not want to be touched and someone does so anyway, then that is assault. The person being touched is the one who defines whether the touch is assault or not, and not the person doing the touching.
Unfortunately, minors' rights over their own bodies are subrogated to their parents ( because the child is considered "property" of the parents and therefore have no right to make their own decisions.)

Psychologists say that frequently the motive behind sexual assault is to feel powerful over the victim. It's not unbelievable that many egotistical individuals would enter the medical field simply to exercise personal power and authority over another person under the guise of "examinations".  This is what happened with many Catholic priests if you recall.

If you really want to learn how unethical doctors can be, please read the New York Times article on nonconsensual and unnecessary vaginal exams performed by medical students without the knowledge of the patient who is undergoing surgery for a totally unrelated medical problem: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (feb. 17, 2020).  This is widespread unethical behavior on the part of a "profession."

The more intelligent and higher on the social ladder a profession is, the more likely those individuals are to have the "Dark Triad" personality traits of narcissism, manipulation, and psychopathy.  We know many CEOs that exhibit these qualities, and it doesn't end there.

I believe he was assaulted and then very confused about it. Watch out for people that wear white collars or white coats....