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 What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?

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PostSubject: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 6:54 am

Ive seen lots of opinions in this board about the massacre and Eric and Dylan personalities and problems but I would like to know what you guys think that caused everything?, do you think that was only social problems?, only mental illness?, both?, family interaction? or that Eric and Dylan were born evil and video games helped to develop a personality disorder and hate on them?. Maybe this was disscused before in the middle of other threads but I would like to see a deeper opinion in this subject from you and what do you think that could caused NBK, since there are people that believe on Cullen's theory or in their own theory.

In my personal opinion I think that was social problems and mental illness what took them to planned such a thing after developed a rejection againts the system and society for their own experiences. But what about you?

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 10:06 am

I think both boys suffered from childhood trauma, especially Eric. I wonder if he was molested when his father was in the military. Rape and molestation are common on bases and the Harrises seem very secretive about their life. Maybe they tried to cover something up and that's why they over indulged Eric. Childhood trauma can cause rage and anxiety that lasts for years. Both boys were very disconnected from reality. I think Dylan dealt with something from childhood but to a lesser degree. Brooks Brown mentioned in his book that Dylan would have these major meltdowns over what seemed like minor things when he was a kid. That anxiety had to come from somewhere.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 10:46 am

I don't think it is possible to really answer this question completely. A combination of Personality Disorders and social problems comes close to it, but it is hardly the whole picture.
When I should explain why Columbine happened- completely drawn from my personal view- I would have to leave rational thought and engage in some bizarre speculation. Was Dylan really having contact with other realities? Was Dylan's Personality Disorder something that came out of himself or maybe out of somewhere else (another reality)? As he put it:
Dylan Klebold wrote:
I wonder how/when I got so fucked up w my mind, existence, problem – when Dylan Benet (sic!) Klebold got covered up by this entity containing Dylan’s body …

In case of Eric, the questions are even bigger and answers are hard to come. Judging from his behavior, I still think it is justified to  classify him as having psychopathic tendencies (or simply being narcissistic, anti-social and sadistic, if this is more comfortable for you as the drastic term "Psychopathy"), but where did this came from? Both, Eric and Dylan were described as shy, insecure and vulnerable children. But why did lead this one of them towards an ethereal, floating and cosmic way of thinking, an self-loathing and painful way of feeling and a behaviour defined by apathy and occasional outbursts of rage, while the other boy turned into a narcissistic, highly motivated and organized boy, for whom rage and hate seemed to be a chronic normality? Like the other boy, he still was socially awkward, but his shyness does appear more like something that occasionally popped up in certain situations, rather than being always there. Instead of being apathetic, he carefully planned and considered everything (both the massacre and also his possible way out).

Ok, I left the subject quite a bit, but this basically just proves my point that the subject is simply too complex to give a specific answer. I bet there are a lot of factors, that we don't consider because we are not even aware of their existence. If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.


Last edited by Hale-Bopp on Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 1:36 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
Ok, I left the subject quite a bit, but this basically just proves my point that the subject is simply too complex to give a specific answer. I bet there are a lot of factors, that we don't consider because we are not even aware of their existence. If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

Thats very true, the subject is very complex and I bet there are things that we dont know yet but we still speculate about this and thats why I wanted to know the opinions, including yours. Even if I also think that there are factors that superpass reality like you said.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 2:14 pm

We need a forum member to join the Jeffco Police Department to gain access to the basement tapes then leak them. You'd probably get thrown in jail but you'd forever be a hero in my heart.

Any volunteers?
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 5:40 pm

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
We need a forum member to join the Jeffco Police Department to gain access to the basement tapes then leak them. You'd probably get thrown in jail but you'd forever be a hero in my heart.

Any volunteers?

What does it have to do with my question?.

I doubt that everyone has access to those tapes there though so it depends in what the person should have to work there to know where they are.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 7:52 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

I would love to hear about those kind of spiritual thoughts. PM me about them if you'd rather not put them out here. Maybe we have something in common.

jettfyre80 wrote:
I think both boys suffered from childhood trauma, especially Eric. I wonder if he was molested when his father was in the military. Rape and molestation are common on bases and the Harrises seem very secretive about their life. Maybe they tried to cover something up and that's why they over indulged Eric. Childhood trauma can cause rage and anxiety that lasts for years. Both boys were very disconnected from reality.

If there was abuse i'm pretty sure it would've slipped in his diary. Badass or not, he did slip the " I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED." And he's basically throwing quite a big part of why he was what he was. Adult, elderly or a teenger , everyone slips the truth between the lines. I do not believe in the abuse theory. We would've "sniffed" it out by now.

Since I have no self-esteem and have been bullied aswell, I strongly believe he suffered from the "seeing red" or "tunnel vision" effect. I do too. Even as an adult, I do blame complete strangers for my misfortunes and I hate those strangers with a passion sometimes. It just seems he was experiencing it 24/7. Being born with an introverted/always-scared personality ( I believe you're born with a certain type of personality, you don't gain it from experiences) doesn't help and it only adds to the "seeing red" effect.

jettfyre80 wrote:
I think Dylan dealt with something from childhood but to a lesser degree. Brooks Brown mentioned in his book that Dylan would have these major meltdowns over what seemed like minor things when he was a kid. That anxiety had to come from somewhere.

Apparently Brooks said Dylan bottled up all the bad feelings against shitty situations he was put through. I know that feeling. Life "punches" you repeatedly and you hold it in... and hold it in cause that's what you think you should do, but in the end it starts to boil and burst eventually. I think the personality Dylan was born with (shy, introverted) was even more severe than Erics'. I don't think he went through a .. what the major population would call : REAL TRAUMATIC SITUATION. But people are different, some find one little bad word as the end of their world. I think minor bad incidents affected him much worse than it would a "normal" teenager. I remember a girl called me stupid about 8 years ago. I remember everything because it truly shocked me. I hated her and I hated every woman, and still do, even if I'm one myself. Call it being spoiled or being crazy, the weak people WILL feel like shit because of any minor thing.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 9:24 pm

Good points, magnaphoria! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 9:34 pm

My post is going to look amateurish compared to whats been wrote on this topic, but if the event that unfolded in the commons (a year+ before the shootings?) happened to me, that would of probably set me a bit psycho and on a revenge warpath, (maybe not quite to there degree) then again i don't think id of been weak enough to allow that to happen to me anyway. My opinion is they just took shit there whole lives, and never fought back or didn't know how, they had 2 older brothers too only a few years older, that could of been hell in itself at home life growing up. Judging by cafeteria video they seemed to have a decent set of friends, hell of alot more than i had/have, so im always iffy on how messed up they really were, seemed to hold conversations better than what i can even at 25..
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 10:04 pm

What still puzzles me to this day is how they had supposedly normal upbringings and we're fairly sheltered yet they carried on this massacre with such callousness. There was such a disconnect from reality that is so fascinating.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 10:53 pm

jettfyre80 wrote:
What still puzzles me to this day is how they had supposedly normal upbringings and we're fairly sheltered yet they carried on this massacre with such callousness. There was such a disconnect from reality that is so fascinating.

Yes thats the fascinating part in these cases but what happened is that they dont care what they have or where they come from, if they are unhappy, sick and full of rage for several reasons, the rest is not important anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 17, 2014 11:31 pm

Magnaphoria wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

I would love to hear about those kind of spiritual thoughts. PM me about them if you'd rather not put them out here. Maybe we have something in common.

I don't mind at all to put them here, but it is really difficult to transform these vague, irrational feelings into words and concepts.
Also, I agree with your other points. I also believe, that there was no specific traumatic incident in these boys life, but this kind of personality came natural to them- by fate you could say. Of course they suffered from difficulties at the outside world. But I think that:
1. these difficulties only set in motion, what was already there. They triggered the transformation, but they did not cause it.
2. At least some of their difficulties were consequences of their personalities, rather than causes. For example, Dylan was not socially awkward because he did not get along with people. Instead, he did not get along with people, because his social skills were simply limited.

As I indicated in my previous post, I believe that Dylan actually had contact to another reality/dimension. Although these experiences gave him insights, emotions and intuitions that were far ahead of most of his peers, they disturbed him emotionally. As he literally put it in his own words, his human/earthly side was unable to deal with the enormity and complexity of his visions. He sensed inexplicable peace and bliss in another dimension, but had to find out, that in this world there was not much of it. He felt that love was the mystery of the universe, ran through every living being and was the thing that pulsed through everything. But when it came to experience concrete, personal love with another human being here on earth, he achieved no success. Earthly women scared him. He was unable to understand or relate to them and his crushes were as hazy and dreamy as his experiences in other dimensions were. Thus, love transformed for him. Love now became the gateway to death. Love was something that became the antithesis to earth, life and humanity (which were the sources of endless suffer).Love and death were the keys to the door of wisdom, bliss and eternity. Love and death became synonymous- they became the enticing call of the mother for him to come home.
Dylan's body indeed now contained something, that was not Dylan anymore. It was a pale shadow of Dylan, since Dylan already partly had left. His body was still on earth, but his mind was ready to explore the other world, the Halcyon as he called it.

Though their huge differences, I think that there were similar mechanisms behind Eric's transformation. But the nature of Eric's dimension was a very different one and I'm still not able to really make sense of this guy, although I sometimes feel as I'd get rare glimpses.

Also, I think that my explanation in fact does fit every Mass Shooter, especially every one who is psychotic (which is the case in the majority of them, I think). A lot of these guys got to places even more far away than Dylan. Who knows, what Jared Loughner saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it even destroyed his ability to use our common language. Who knows what Seung-Hui Cho saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it contained a girl named Jelly, who lived in outer space and called Seung "spanky". Wo knows what Adam Lanza saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it convinced him of the idea, that in order to save little children from the torture of civilization, he had to kill them.

The more I think about it, the more creepy it gets.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 12:15 am

Hale-Bopp wrote:
Magnaphoria wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

I would love to hear about those kind of spiritual thoughts. PM me about them if you'd rather not put them out here. Maybe we have something in common.

I don't mind at all to put them here, but it is really difficult to transform these vague, irrational feelings into words and concepts.
Also, I agree with your other points. I also believe, that there was no specific traumatic incident in these boys life, but this kind of personality came natural to them- by fate you could say. Of course they suffered from difficulties at the outside world. But I think that:
1. these difficulties only set in motion, what was already there. They triggered the transformation, but they did not cause it.
2. At least some of their difficulties were consequences of their personalities, rather than causes. For example, Dylan was not socially awkward because he did not get along with people. Instead, he did not get along with people, because his social skills were simply limited.

As I indicated in my previous post, I believe that Dylan actually had contact to another reality/dimension. Although these experiences gave him insights, emotions and intuitions that were far ahead of most of his peers, they disturbed him emotionally. As he literally put it in his own words, his human/earthly side was unable to deal with the enormity and complexity of his visions. He sensed inexplicable peace and bliss in another dimension, but had to find out, that in this world there was not much of it. He felt that love was the mystery of the universe, ran through every living being and was the thing that pulsed through everything. But when it came ato experience concrete, personal love with another human being here on earth, he achieved no success. Earthly women scared him. He was unable to understand or relate to them and his crushes were as hazy and dreamy as his experiences in other dimensions were. Thus, love transformed for him. Love now became the gateway to death. Love was something that became the antithesis to earth, life and humanity (which were the sources of endless suffer).Love and death were the keys to the door of wisdom, bliss and eternity. Love and death became synonymous- they became the enticing call of the mother for him to come home.
Dylan's body indeed now contained something, that was not Dylan anymore. It was a pale shadow of Dylan, since Dylan already partly had left. His body was still on earth, but his mind was ready to explore the other world, the Halcyon as he called it.

Though their huge differences, I think that there were similar mechanisms behind Eric's transformation. But the nature of Eric's dimension was a very different one and I'm still not able to really make sense of this guy, although I sometimes feel as I'd get rare glimpses.

Also, I think that my explanation in fact does fit every Mass Shooter, especially every one who is psychotic (which is the case in the majority of them, I think). A lot of these guys got to places even more far away than Dylan. Who knows, what Jared Loughner saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it even destroyed his ability to use our common language. Who knows what Seung-Hui Cho saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it contained a girl named Jelly, who lived in outer space and called Seung "spanky". Wo knows what Adam Lanza saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it convinced him of the idea, that in order to save little children from the torture of civilization, he had to kill them.

The more I think about it, the more creepy it gets.

I love your post Hale-Bopp, your explanation is something that I was actually thinking but I didnt know how to express very well yet and is something that for me makes sense, thanks for commented your thoughts about this subject here in my post ;
Smile

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 12:29 am

Mj2beat wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
Magnaphoria wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

I would love to hear about those kind of spiritual thoughts. PM me about them if you'd rather not put them out here. Maybe we have something in common.

I don't mind at all to put them here, but it is really difficult to transform these vague, irrational feelings into words and concepts.
Also, I agree with your other points. I also believe, that there was no specific traumatic incident in these boys life, but this kind of personality came natural to them- by fate you could say. Of course they suffered from difficulties at the outside world. But I think that:
1. these difficulties only set in motion, what was already there. They triggered the transformation, but they did not cause it.
2. At least some of their difficulties were consequences of their personalities, rather than causes. For example, Dylan was not socially awkward because he did not get along with people. Instead, he did not get along with people, because his social skills were simply limited.

As I indicated in my previous post, I believe that Dylan actually had contact to another reality/dimension. Although these experiences gave him insights, emotions and intuitions that were far ahead of most of his peers, they disturbed him emotionally. As he literally put it in his own words, his human/earthly side was unable to deal with the enormity and complexity of his visions. He sensed inexplicable peace and bliss in another dimension, but had to find out, that in this world there was not much of it. He felt that love was the mystery of the universe, ran through every living being and was the thing that pulsed through everything. But when it came ato experience concrete, personal love with another human being here on earth, he achieved no success. Earthly women scared him. He was unable to understand or relate to them and his crushes were as hazy and dreamy as his experiences in other dimensions were. Thus, love transformed for him. Love now became the gateway to death. Love was something that became the antithesis to earth, life and humanity (which were the sources of endless suffer).Love and death were the keys to the door of wisdom, bliss and eternity. Love and death became synonymous- they became the enticing call of the mother for him to come home.
Dylan's body indeed now contained something, that was not Dylan anymore. It was a pale shadow of Dylan, since Dylan already partly had left. His body was still on earth, but his mind was ready to explore the other world, the Halcyon as he called it.

Though their huge differences, I think that there were similar mechanisms behind Eric's transformation. But the nature of Eric's dimension was a very different one and I'm still not able to really make sense of this guy, although I sometimes feel as I'd get rare glimpses.

Also, I think that my explanation in fact does fit every Mass Shooter, especially every one who is psychotic (which is the case in the majority of them, I think). A lot of these guys got to places even more far away than Dylan. Who knows, what Jared Loughner saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it even destroyed his ability to use our common language. Who knows what Seung-Hui Cho saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it contained a girl named Jelly, who lived in outer space and called Seung "spanky". Wo knows what Adam Lanza saw, felt and heard? Whatever it was, it convinced him of the idea, that in order to save little children from the torture of civilization, he had to kill them.

The more I think about it, the more creepy it gets.

I love your post Hale-Bopp, your explanation is something that I was actually thinking but I didnt know how to express very well yet and is something that for me makes sense, thanks for commented your thoughts about this subject here in my post ;
Smile

Thanks for your kind words. Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 2:30 am

Rather than writing up a long post, I'll link to material I've already written on this topic:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 3:03 am

Bullying,ostracized, depression, anger.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 3:12 am

Magnaphoria wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
If you are a spiritual person (like me), you could find that there are several factors, who simply surpass our known reality and therefore are hard to come by with the mechanisms of logic and thought.

I would love to hear about those kind of spiritual thoughts. PM me about them if you'd rather not put them out here. Maybe we have something in common.

jettfyre80 wrote:
I think both boys suffered from childhood trauma, especially Eric. I wonder if he was molested when his father was in the military. Rape and molestation are common on bases and the Harrises seem very secretive about their life. Maybe they tried to cover something up and that's why they over indulged Eric. Childhood trauma can cause rage and anxiety that lasts for years. Both boys were very disconnected from reality.

If there was abuse i'm pretty sure it would've slipped in his diary. Badass or not, he did slip the "  I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED." And he's basically throwing quite a big part of why he was what he was. Adult, elderly or a teenger , everyone slips the truth between the lines. I do not believe in the abuse theory. We would've "sniffed" it out by now.

Since I have no self-esteem and have been bullied aswell, I strongly believe he suffered from the "seeing red" or "tunnel vision" effect. I do too. Even as an adult, I do blame complete strangers for my misfortunes and I hate those strangers with a passion sometimes. It just seems he was experiencing it 24/7. Being born with an introverted/always-scared personality ( I believe you're born with a certain type of personality, you don't gain it from experiences) doesn't help and it only adds to the "seeing red" effect.

jettfyre80 wrote:
I think Dylan dealt with something from childhood but to a lesser degree. Brooks Brown mentioned in his book that Dylan would have these major meltdowns over what seemed like minor things when he was a kid. That anxiety had to come from somewhere.

Apparently Brooks said Dylan bottled up all the bad feelings against shitty situations he was put through. I know that feeling. Life "punches" you repeatedly and you hold it in... and hold it in cause that's what you think you should do, but in the end it starts to boil and burst eventually.  I think the personality Dylan was born with (shy, introverted) was even more severe than Erics'. I don't think he went through a .. what the major population would call : REAL TRAUMATIC SITUATION. But people are different, some find one little bad word as the end of their world. I think minor bad incidents affected him much worse than it would a "normal" teenager. I remember a girl called me stupid about 8 years ago. I remember everything because it truly shocked me. I hated her and I hated every woman, and still do, even if I'm one myself. Call it being spoiled or being crazy, the weak people WILL feel like shit because of any minor thing.

"If there was abuse i'm pretty sure it would've slipped in his diary. Badass or not, he did slip the " I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED." And he's basically throwing quite a big part of why he was what he was"

I don't think I will ever be able to understand how people can see an entry like that Eric wrote and believe he was incapable of having any real emotion.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 9:08 am


Hale-Bopp wrote:
I DO have a vivid imagination, but I know that these experiences were not my imagination

I'm listening.

When I sometimes look at a person, object or location I get a feeling sometimes, can't really describe it with other words than "black, dark, light, loneliness" etc and it makes it sound "earthly" but there is so much more to it that can't be put into words. Do you ever feel that? Or maybe I'm just delusional. I have been made by other people to feel ashamed of my own thoughts so writing this makes me kind of uncomfortable because I don't want to be seen as some loser who THINKS they're psychic or something.

Anyway I'd like to hear about those experiences if you're willing to share.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 5:23 pm

Columbine happened as a result of several factors coming together that created the "perfect storm"

1) Injustice/Unfairness:

Most girls attracted to the jocks,
Jocks getting preferential/special treatment present amongst staff/peers,
Bullying/intimidation of others within the school,
Hypocrisy - saying one thing and doing another - present amongst staff/peers,
After Jan 30 98, hatred/resentment towards the police and having to deal with the court system - compared to Rocky Hoffschneider & his friends not having to deal with police/courts over their incident

2) Rejection/Isolation:

Even though Eric & Dylan had a lot of social interaction, they still felt a big sense of not belonging.
Not fitting the "norm" and not being "accepted" by the majority/popular kids gave them a strong sense of isolation/rejection whereupon they saw themselves as "different".

3) Anger/Hatred/Wrath

4) Revenge/Retaliation

5) Infamy/Notoriety - to be known, to never be forgotten

Eric and Dylan's act of murder-suicide at Columbine was the culmination of many factors. However, some of the biggest factors were: Injustice, Rejection, Anger/Hatred, Revenge, Notoriety/Infamy


These 5 factors play a big part in most school/workplace shootings as well
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 5:57 pm

Columbine was caused by the fact that Eric Harris suffered from uncontrollable homicidal fantasies.

This is the real cause, because everything follows from it. Without Eric's fantasies, none of the other stuff (Dylan's involvement, the incident in the commons, video games) would have taken on the power it did.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 9:42 pm

Emptiness of living in white middle class suburbia, shallow society crushing their souls, mind-numbing daily routine, mind control(I heard that one),
kill to feel alive, create a tragedy to make life more meaningful. Whatever sounds nice. Or maybe there is no reason. A riddle for the ages.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 18, 2014 10:14 pm

lasttrain wrote:
Columbine was caused by the fact that Eric Harris suffered from uncontrollable homicidal fantasies.

This is the real cause, because everything follows from it.  Without Eric's fantasies, none of the other stuff (Dylan's involvement, the incident in the commons, video games) would have taken on the power it did.


How do you know that? How do you know Dylan isn't the one who came up with the idea?

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 19, 2014 8:36 am

Mj2beat wrote:
Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
We need a forum member to join the Jeffco Police Department to gain access to the basement tapes then leak them. You'd probably get thrown in jail but you'd forever be a hero in my heart.

Any volunteers?

What does it have to do with my question?.

I doubt that everyone has access to those tapes there though so it depends in what the person should have to work there to know where they are.

Sorry sweetheart, I didn't really expect anyone to think I meant it.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 19, 2014 9:05 am

Wait, so there are people who actually believe the diary entries of Eric and Dylan released by JeffCo are their full diaries?

I bet my bottom dollar that several entries were skipped (to suit their agenda, no less).
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 19, 2014 3:59 pm

Juicy Jazzy wrote:
Wait, so there are people who actually believe the diary entries of Eric and Dylan released by JeffCo are their full diaries?

I bet my bottom dollar that several entries were skipped (to suit their agenda, no less).

In my case, I dont believe it and I doubt that most of the people here do it. But the entries that are around give a clue about what they were thinking and feeling anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 20, 2014 12:41 pm

Bullying definitely was one of the main causes behind Columbine. It can't be denied that they were subjected to perpetual bullying by the jocks.

With that being said, I feel it was most likely mental illness. Depression was prevalent in both of Eric and Dylan, more so in Dylan. And obviously the little fact that Eric had a God Complex, thinking he was above others and choosing who could die and live. But with that being said, Eric did see a therapist, but it was ineffectual.

So how could've Columbine been avoided? Mental help didn't necessarily help Eric, it's just a pity Dylan was never open about his depression.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 20, 2014 1:22 pm

To simplify it as much as possible would still have to include a ton of differing factors. Eric clearly had rage issues likely stemming from his indented chest and the fact he seemed to feel things were owed to him. Dylan's journal and all the other creepy shit indicate he was suicidal before it happened, and it would have been a matter of time regardless. This gave him purpose in dying, they both knew they were going to be celebrities forever because of this.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 20, 2014 9:53 pm

I think Eric's rage came from holding all his anger in at home and school.Not so much as just a rage issue..I think he tried to be the perfect son to his parent's or at least in their eyes.I think he was angry at moving so many times and never being able to say or do anything about it because of his fathers work.I kind of get the feeling his mother was kind of an old fashioned lady from some of the stuff he wrote in his Hitler story and maybe he was a little pissed at her for not saying anything about the moving so much...maybe..He seemed more protective of his mother that of his father.I don't think he confronted the bullies or people that made comments and snickered as he walked the halls from comments to his clothing choice to his small stature his chest..Dylan was a mope the best way i could describe it.Even as a female i wasn't that mopey about love and all that so maybe that was something he craved but never got much of from his parents.Dylan thought love could solve all of his problems but the fact is it could have been just as bad if he had fallen in love only to see it isn't much sometimes but just a romantic notion.IMO,Dylan felt without love his life was over and not worth living and that made him angry that no one would love him the way he needed.Dylan's self esteem was just as bad as his need for love..I did find where dylan wrote things he hated and it said" Guy who are assholes to girl" or something along that line. Didn't a few girls say he called one a bitch and was tackling them hard at football and another say he smacked her after calling him out on a infraction at work?I wonder if he really did or another contradiction he made?
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 22, 2014 10:46 am

I agree that perhaps Eric just needed an outlet for his anger, and he just couldn't find one.
I'm a generally angry person, and for the longest period of time, I had no way to release it. I just sat and brooded on it. It really wasn't good - but the only reason I did was because it wasn't socially acceptable to scream at the top of my lungs, or go punch someone in the face.
For both of them, I guess they must have held in a lot of their emotions. And when that happens, people get mad. Really mad. It must have reached a point for both of them that they felt so much like they didn't fit in, couldn't handle situations, that they just stopped trying to care. I guess that's where NBK came from.
And Eric's coping skills were probably affected by the amount of moves, as mentioned before - hell, I would be too! Moving so many times, so far away, in such a small number of years would have a longstanding effect. You wouldn't be able to build decent, meaningful longstanding relationships with people.
Dylan, however, I think was just extremely fragile. Feeling so down about everything, and feeling rejected so often, but having so many strong feelings at the same time (like his 'love' list - he seemed to put a lot of people on there).
Maybe EH and DK weren't really as close as we think? Perhaps they just reached a pinnacle where they could share a common goal. Mental illness and high school never mix well anyway. So, this rage and anger and abandonment finally came together, like a little mini Big Bang right in the suburbs of Littleton. They thought they'd get power - something they never had before - and over a huge group of people as well.
((Some skewed way of thinking, perhaps, that this would get them girls, too. In death... not much use though.No doubt about it that the two of the boys wanted pussy. Hell, don't all (straight) teenage boys? Rolling Eyes )) 
Being at the bottom of the totem pole (drama club is the bottom of the group... dylan was managing equipment) bothered them to a pathological degree.
This has been far too long and messy of a post for a first post.

TL;DR
1) No productive outlets for anger.
2) Perhaps, for Eric, moving so much as a child (????)
3) Inability to create meaningful relationships
4) Fragile/strong feelings that were never returned, or even acknowledged.
5) Mental illness.
6) Low in the social pyramid. Perhaps even at the bottom.
7) Seemed to direct their rage at a school, where most likely most of their social interaction would have come from anyway. They craved power there as High School is where you spend 6+ hours of each day, every day, for four years. Being at the bottom stinks, I should know. Very Happy 

But... yes. Far more reasons than what I have listed, and what i have listed is only SPECULATION as it is. We'll never know what drove them to do it. Trying to pull up a list of 'causes' is really just projecting our own emotions onto the situation, and wondering if they felt it too. Even if it is the most fucked up feelings we're pondering, there still has to be a reason we thought of them to begin with.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeSun Jun 22, 2014 10:09 pm

cal_hates_you.. i didn't think your post was messy at all it made a lot of sense, to me anyway.. I wonder if they had sex if they would have still did their crime spree or if they would have used sex as an outlet of frustration? For some reason i would have hoped at some point in their life they would have found a life and love and come to terms with their inner demons so to speak.I agree with the fact that they may not have been as close as people think as far as talking about girls and sex and what really bothered them but of blowing up stuff and NBK. I would love to know that conversation came about.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 23, 2014 1:25 am

Come on, guys. Do you really believe sex would have stopped columbine? Sex does not cure anything and neither does finding love. These two hated themselves and wanted to kill everyone so how the heck were they going to love someone when they wanted to kill them all?
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 23, 2014 2:23 am

Mark wrote:
Come on, guys. Do you really believe sex would have stopped columbine? Sex does not cure anything and neither does finding love. These two hated themselves and wanted to kill everyone so how the heck were they going to love someone when they wanted to kill them all?

I am a bit agree with you but I also believe that have someone to love, get a girl or at least just sex. Could liberated some of their frustration and depression. Even though I am not sure if it would stop the massacre at all.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 23, 2014 3:01 am

Mark wrote:
Come on, guys. Do you really believe sex would have stopped columbine? Sex does not cure anything and neither does finding love. These two hated themselves and wanted to kill everyone so how the heck were they going to love someone when they wanted to kill them all?


I think it could have made a definite difference ,yes. Love can give people hope and they desperately needed some sort of hope to hold on to.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 23, 2014 9:29 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
Mark wrote:
Come on, guys. Do you really believe sex would have stopped columbine? Sex does not cure anything and neither does finding love. These two hated themselves and wanted to kill everyone so how the heck were they going to love someone when they wanted to kill them all?



I think it could have made a definite difference ,yes. Love can give people hope and they desperately needed some sort of hope to hold on to.

They hated everybody though and with the mentality they had, they'd never be able to be in a normal functioning relationship. Dylan babbled in his journal about how he wanted to die with his "love". Even if he had a girlfriend he was hoping she'd die in the bombing with him. It is a good thing girls stayed away from those two.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 23, 2014 8:48 pm

Mark wrote:
They hated everybody though and with the mentality they had, they'd never be able to be in a normal functioning relationship. Dylan babbled in his journal about how he wanted to die with his "love". Even if he had a girlfriend he was hoping she'd die in the bombing with him. It is a good thing girls stayed away from those two.

Ha, I totally agree. I don't think finding love would have helped at all. Perhaps produce a few stutters in their minds... but how would have stopped anything? They were hellbent on destruction. Trying to imagine that love solves everything is... kind of insane. Dylan was so... gone (well, I can't think of any other word right now...) with the idea of 'love', and how much power 'love' had, that whatever he could experience with a girl most probably wouldn't be affection; it'd be obsession. Infatuation. Creepy.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 23, 2014 9:40 pm

cal_hates_you wrote:
Mark wrote:
They hated everybody though and with the mentality they had, they'd never be able to be in a normal functioning relationship. Dylan babbled in his journal about how he wanted to die with his "love". Even if he had a girlfriend he was hoping she'd die in the bombing with him. It is a good thing girls stayed away from those two.

Ha, I totally agree. I don't think finding love would have helped at all. Perhaps produce a few stutters in their minds... but how would have stopped anything? They were hellbent on destruction. Trying to imagine that love solves everything is... kind of insane. Dylan was so... gone (well, I can't think of any other word right now...) with the idea of 'love', and how much power 'love' had, that whatever he could experience with a girl most probably wouldn't be affection; it'd be obsession. Infatuation. Creepy.

Exactly and I can't help but laugh when I see these fans claiming that if they had gotten the chance to be with either of them they could have "saved" them. Yeah right, chances are those 2 would have killed them as well.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeMon Jun 23, 2014 11:23 pm

I wonder if Dylan ever mentioned to Eric who his love was.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 24, 2014 1:28 am

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
I wonder if Dylan ever mentioned to Eric who his love was.

Probably he mentioned some of his crushes in a guys talk with Eric but if he mentioned that love of his journal, we just can especulate.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 24, 2014 1:44 am

Finding a way to love themselves is more important than finding love for their stage in development. That can come from building friendships or counceling, but not from sex. Any projections of insecurity or self doubt is likely to sent different messages that could push people away.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 24, 2014 1:48 am

Mark wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Mark wrote:
Come on, guys. Do you really believe sex would have stopped columbine? Sex does not cure anything and neither does finding love. These two hated themselves and wanted to kill everyone so how the heck were they going to love someone when they wanted to kill them all?



I think it could have made a definite difference ,yes. Love can give people hope and they desperately needed some  sort of hope to hold on to.

They hated everybody though and with the mentality they had, they'd never be able to be in a normal functioning relationship. Dylan babbled in his journal about how he wanted to die with his "love". Even if he had a girlfriend he was hoping she'd die in the bombing with him. It is a good thing girls stayed away from those two.

That's a matter of opinion. You can't say for sure they could never have a good, functional relationship because  we just don't know . We can only have our opinions on it. It didn't happen. It was something  that I do believe they both wanted. And by the time Dylan wrote those entries you spoke of he was far, far down the rabbit hole of depression and hopelessness.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 24, 2014 1:52 am

cal_hates_you wrote:
Mark wrote:
They hated everybody though and with the mentality they had, they'd never be able to be in a normal functioning relationship. Dylan babbled in his journal about how he wanted to die with his "love". Even if he had a girlfriend he was hoping she'd die in the bombing with him. It is a good thing girls stayed away from those two.

Ha, I totally agree. I don't think finding love would have helped at all. Perhaps produce a few stutters in their minds... but how would have stopped anything? They were hellbent on destruction. Trying to imagine that love solves everything is... kind of insane. Dylan was so... gone (well, I can't think of any other word right now...) with the idea of 'love', and how much power 'love' had, that whatever he could experience with a girl most probably wouldn't be affection; it'd be obsession. Infatuation. Creepy.

Not sure that's true.But even if it is some women enjoy being obsessed over.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 24, 2014 4:00 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
Mark wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Mark wrote:
Come on, guys. Do you really believe sex would have stopped columbine? Sex does not cure anything and neither does finding love. These two hated themselves and wanted to kill everyone so how the heck were they going to love someone when they wanted to kill them all?



I think it could have made a definite difference ,yes. Love can give people hope and they desperately needed some  sort of hope to hold on to.

They hated everybody though and with the mentality they had, they'd never be able to be in a normal functioning relationship. Dylan babbled in his journal about how he wanted to die with his "love". Even if he had a girlfriend he was hoping she'd die in the bombing with him. It is a good thing girls stayed away from those two.

That's a matter of opinion. You can't say for sure they could never have a good, functional relationship because  we just don't know . We can only have our opinions on it. It didn't happen. It was something  that I do believe they both wanted. And by the time Dylan wrote those entries you spoke of he was far, far down the rabbit hole of depression and hopelessness.

That is exactly my point. Dylan was so far gone that no relationship was going to help him and all Eric thought about was mass destruction. Sure, he wanted sex but him in a relationship where he'd have to think about someone else other than himself? Nah. I don't see it.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 24, 2014 4:02 am

philosopher_king wrote:
Finding a way to love themselves is more important than finding love for their stage in development. That can come from building friendships or counceling, but not from sex. Any projections of insecurity or self doubt is likely to sent different messages that could push people away.
Completely agree with this.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 25, 2014 2:56 am

We will just have to agree to disagree.I do wonder though,if that way of thinking is dehumanizing to the boys? By thinking, they weren't capable of real love or caring? Or wouldn't want a real relationship?



Mark wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Mark wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Mark wrote:
Come on, guys. Do you really believe sex would have stopped columbine? Sex does not cure anything and neither does finding love. These two hated themselves and wanted to kill everyone so how the heck were they going to love someone when they wanted to kill them all?



I think it could have made a definite difference ,yes. Love can give people hope and they desperately needed some  sort of hope to hold on to.

They hated everybody though and with the mentality they had, they'd never be able to be in a normal functioning relationship. Dylan babbled in his journal about how he wanted to die with his "love". Even if he had a girlfriend he was hoping she'd die in the bombing with him. It is a good thing girls stayed away from those two.

That's a matter of opinion. You can't say for sure they could never have a good, functional relationship because  we just don't know . We can only have our opinions on it. It didn't happen. It was something  that I do believe they both wanted. And by the time Dylan wrote those entries you spoke of he was far, far down the rabbit hole of depression and hopelessness.

That is exactly my point. Dylan was so far gone that no relationship was going to help him and all Eric thought about was mass destruction. Sure, he wanted sex but him in a relationship where he'd have to think about someone else other than himself? Nah. I don't see it.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 25, 2014 3:09 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
We will just have to agree to disagree.I do wonder though,if that way of thinking is dehumanizing to the boys? By thinking, they weren't capable of real love or caring? Or wouldn't want a real relationship?

Honestly, what would they care? They are murderers who hated everyone. They didn't care what people thought of them and they wanted to kill and destroy as much as possible and no relationship would have changed that. They hated everything, including themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 26, 2014 2:43 am

They ended up murderers but they were also human beings. Teenage boys. They might care. If they truly didn't care what people said or thought of them, this probably would not have happened.

Mark wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
We will just have to agree to disagree.I do wonder though,if that way of thinking is dehumanizing to the boys? By thinking, they weren't capable of real love or caring? Or wouldn't want a real relationship?

Honestly, what would they care? They are murderers who hated everyone. They didn't care what people thought of them and they wanted to kill and destroy as much as possible and no relationship would have changed that. They hated everything, including themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 26, 2014 5:00 pm

Jenn wrote:
lasttrain wrote:
Columbine was caused by the fact that Eric Harris suffered from uncontrollable homicidal fantasies.

This is the real cause, because everything follows from it.  Without Eric's fantasies, none of the other stuff (Dylan's involvement, the incident in the commons, video games) would have taken on the power it did.


How do you know that? How do you know Dylan isn't the one who came up with the idea?

It doesn't matter who came up with the idea.

It is obvious that Eric was consumed with obsessive homicidal fantasies, and this was the cause of Columbine. It is the only factor that IS present in Columbine but NOT present in other high schools.

Bullying, alienation, depression, etc. happen at every high school every day.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 26, 2014 7:40 pm

lasttrain wrote:
It doesn't matter who came up with the idea.

It is obvious that Eric was consumed with obsessive homicidal fantasies, and this was the cause of Columbine.  It is the only factor that IS present in Columbine but NOT present in other high schools.

Bullying, alienation, depression, etc. happen at every high school every day.


And how do you think that those homicidal fantasies started in Eric and other mass murderers?

I would like to know your theory in that part of the subject Smile

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 26, 2014 9:51 pm

Maybe it's just me but personally I think Eric and Dylan were just whiny little brats who had it a lot better than most people but didn't appreciate a damn thing. Bitching and crying because someone picked on them in gym class (like they didn't pick on people as well). How many times did these clowns actually get beat down or have someone threaten to kill them? Their bullying was mild compared to some that I've seen/read about.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think that exactly caused Columbine?   What do you think that exactly caused Columbine? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 26, 2014 10:21 pm

Mark wrote:
Maybe it's just me but personally I think Eric and Dylan were just whiny little brats who had it a lot better than most people but didn't appreciate a damn thing. Bitching and crying because someone picked on them in gym class (like they didn't pick on people as well). How many times did these clowns actually get beat down or have someone threaten to kill them? Their bullying was mild compared to some that I've seen/read about.

You can have "friends" but not feel that are the real ones, you can have lots of things but not be satisfated, you can be in a place and not feel totally accepted, not fit in. Eric and Dylan also had sensible personalities and all those bad little things, affected them a lot. Something in their enviroment started their problems and personality disorders and they started to not be happy with the world and system, they ended up againts that for a hate that with the years grew up inside of them. The bullying or the attacks that they did could be product of their frustration for not feel part of the school and world.

Many people experienced real bullying everyday, worse rejection but something in Eric and Dylan made that the negative they experienced, would be bigger than really was and it created another world in their minds where they were superior and had to exterminate all the people that laughed of them.

Thats how I see them after read many things from them and people that were close to them and is my opinion. Of course, your opinion is valid too but I doubt that their problem was something so simple. Although I respect it because in the end we are just speculating in based of our own perspectives and thoughts.

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