Being judged on your views about Columbine

My tattoo is on here if I'm not mistaken. I can't really say because the photo's have miraculously stopped working. But I'm one of the people with the "beautiful" and the heart tattoo'd and I can tell you right now even though I'm sure some people will tear me down for it, that I got in 3 years ago when I was 21 years old. I chose it for many reasons, none that I really HAVE to explain to any of you. But yepp, I'm one of these "idiots", who will NOT ever cover this tattoo.

marlboro-redsox,
I don't know if you will every see this or not but I think it took a lot of guts for you to come here in place where some are very critical of you and your actions and defend yourself.It's hard to be outspoken.

PaintItBlack,

I've come to a point in life where I find everyone is critical of some sort of action that almost every single person has made. We're all judged. I just don't take it to heart. People are ALWAYS going to judge. There will always be something that people think you need to change; or NOT do. I don't fear the internet and the people who sit behind screens who think they dominate the world.
I've been through my fair share of shit in life, and I'm not one to judge; I almost feel bad for those who have to sit online and tear others down.
I got my tattoo and it has A LOT of meaning, not just the idea that Dylan Klebold wrote it hopelessly in his daily planner (that's where the 'beautiful' was written btw,for those of you claiming it's from a journal; it's not). I've spoken with his mother very briefly; I have compassion for those who have been through things that have passed through my brain at a young age.
I can understand not knowing why someone would get a specific tattoo, or why there are people even into the massacre for any other reason than to tear down the shooters and their families; but here I am. Judge or not, I'm not afraid to sit here and debate with people. It's when debate turns to harassment, that's when it's wrong.

Good for you, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I think tattoos are a highly personal thing and I'm sure that people would think mine were stupid and/or not understand why I got them or whatever. I don't have any Columbine tattoos. I don't know that I would ever get one, but then again Columbine is something that is obviously very important to me or I wouldn't spend so much time on the board so maybe I should get one, lol.

I think that the world is just too quick to judge.
If you want a Columbine related tattoo...cool..get one. If you don't like the topic at all and think it's stupid...don't get a tattoo.....
It's just as easy as that. No one will ever understand anyone's interest and how far they take them. No one says anything much about the soldiers who are guns for hire; that go to other countries and end up killing whole families of innocent people for the price of oil....
Why am I judged for being interested in a story about bullied children fighting back....
Why is it okay to say that the biggest bullies of everyone's lives (AKA the government) are heroes , but the kids who fight back against people who bullied them are monsters.
I'm probably not making sense, honestly but it's how I feel about being judged over this.

Did Eric and Dylan really fight back against the kids who bullied them though? In my opinion, they didn't. If that were the case, why did they favor shooting 9th graders who didn't even know them over a bully who openly made fun of them? If it was just "kids fighting back against the people who bullied them", why were they prepared to blow up the entire cafeteria and casually saying on video that "if" their friends survive they can have their stuff?

If this were a true case of "revenge against their bullies", they would have gone after their bullies. They didn't though. They went after the entire school including their own friends. Did the teacher that they killed bully them too?

I'm guessing you've never been bullied that bad?.....I have been, to the point where you're so mentally screwed up over it that the whole school is against you. That you're so paranoid and no one seems to show any sort of concern over your well being, that you start to hate EVERYONE...because they're 'all against you'. I'm not saying that it was true. They were mentally ill, they needed intervention.

I just don't think it's fair that people won't even take a moment to even realize how psychology in those situations work.....they were pushed toward this. They weren't born insane, or asking to be bullied to that point. No turning back. If you don't understand this, I'm sorry. But I do.

marlboro-redsox,
I think it is fantastic for you that you have been able to come to a place in your life where you are free from the effect that the judgment of others has on you. That is one of the hardest things a human can do and I'm sure you went through a long journey to get to this place.
I can relate to you somewhat because I'm a "fangirl" (even though I don't condone E &D's actions) and I've always been open about it because I don't feel I'm doing anything wrong or to be ashamed of, most people without knowing anything else about me are going to assume that I'm scum because of it.
Ironically, I've been treated well here overall because this board has strict rules about harassment that other Columbine boards did not have in the past. But yeah, I hear you.

[mention][/mention] wrote:

PaintItBlack,

I've come to a point in life where I find everyone is critical of some sort of action that almost every single person has made. We're all judged. I just don't take it to heart. People are ALWAYS going to judge. There will always be something that people think you need to change; or NOT do. I don't fear the internet and the people who sit behind screens who think they dominate the world.
 I've been through my fair share of shit in life, and I'm not one to judge; I almost feel bad for those who have to sit online and tear others down.
 I got my tattoo and it has A LOT of meaning, not just the idea that Dylan Klebold wrote it hopelessly in his daily planner (that's where the 'beautiful' was written btw,for those of you claiming it's from a journal; it's not). I've spoken with his mother very briefly; I have compassion for those who have been through things that have passed through my brain at a young age.  
  I can understand not knowing why someone would get a specific tattoo, or why there are people even into the massacre for any other reason than to tear down the shooters and their families; but here I am. Judge or not, I'm not afraid to sit here and debate with people. It's when debate turns to harassment, that's when it's wrong.

I agree that most of the kids who were killed did not bully Eric &Dylan , at least not directly. There are anecdotes about a couple of victims having run in with E&D but I'm not sure what exactly happened if these stories are correct.
But a whole lot of people in that school did bully them for years. So by the time the shootings happened they had a vendetta against the school itself because they assumed most students there were the same. I realize this is hard for someone who has not been bullied to the point of no return to understand but that is how they were thinking. I was bullied to a ridiculous extreme so I can speak from first hand experience.

Eric420 wrote:

Did Eric and Dylan really fight back against the kids who bullied them though? In my opinion, they didn't. If that were the case, why did they favor shooting 9th graders who didn't even know them over a bully who openly made fun of them? If it was just "kids fighting back against the people who bullied them", why were they prepared to blow up the entire cafeteria and casually saying on video that "if" their friends survive they can have their stuff?

If this were a true case of "revenge against their bullies", they would have gone after their bullies. They didn't though. They went after the entire school including their own friends. Did the teacher that they killed bully them too?  

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I wouldn't say I'm a 'fangirl' or even a 'columbiner'. I respect the victims but in my list that includes Eric and Dylan. I'm around the community to help understand; prevent AND to also be one of the people who think that respect and forgiveness is needed for Eric and Dylan, they too were human. And before anyone tears me down for that; even victims parents have forgiven them, and said that they were saddened to hear that the school had treated them so badly that they felt it was their only way to solve it. If the victims parents are saying that; well then I think everyone else's opinion is invalid.

Eric420 wrote:

Did Eric and Dylan really fight back against the kids who bullied them though?

Nope.

marlboro-redsox,
I agree with much of what you said here and I think you said it very well. However, I feel I must say that while some victim's parents have indeed forgiven like the Scotts and the Curnows and I find that more admirable than I can even express into words, other families have not. Bruce Beck,stepfather of Lauren , said a few years ago that he would never forgive. Don Fleming said that he was still angry at E &D and always would be. His wife also sounds very angry.Those quotes came from the 13 families documentary. It's also hard to imagine Daniel R's parents forgiving although they may someday in their old age. Tom Mauser is still very angry towards E &D although his wife seems more forgiving. Others like Bernalls have not said if they have forgiven or not. Their Christian faith commands them to do so but they have not said if they have or not. It's sad but this is human nature. Most people would probably never forgive or want to forgive. After all, most who hate E &D lost nothing at their hands and were not directly affected by their actions.
I hope I don't sound like a know it all here as that is not my intent. I just had to write this for the sake of sharing information.

marlboro-redsox wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I wouldn't say I'm a 'fangirl' or even a 'columbiner'. I respect the victims but in my list that includes Eric and Dylan. I'm around the community to help understand; prevent AND to also be one of the people who think that respect and forgiveness is needed for Eric and Dylan, they too were human. And before anyone tears me down for that; even victims parents have forgiven them, and said that they were saddened to hear that the school had treated them so badly that they felt it was their only way to solve it. If the victims parents are saying that; well then I think everyone else's opinion is invalid.

Due to off-topic discussion in the other thread, this has been moved.

marlboro-redsox wrote:

I'm guessing you've never been bullied that bad?.....I have been, to the point where you're so mentally screwed up over it that the whole school is against you. That you're so paranoid and no one seems to show any sort of concern over your well being, that you start to hate EVERYONE...because they're 'all against you'. I'm not saying that it was true. They were mentally ill, they needed intervention.

I just don't think it's fair that people won't even take a moment to even realize how psychology in those situations work.....they were pushed toward this. They weren't born insane, or asking to be bullied to that point. No turning back. If you don't understand this, I'm sorry. But I do.

1. No one "pushed" them to do anything. No amount of bullying makes the decision to carry it out for them. They may have "felt" they had no choice but to kill people who had nothing to do with them (which I doubt), but in reality no particular person is responsible for the event occurring but them. I hate when people use expressions like "they were pushed toward this, no turning back". It sounds like an excuse or a way to downplay their guilt.
2. This has nothing to do with whether the poster above was bullied. I was bullied all through middle and high school and I agree with the above poster.

if we don't respect each others views about Columbine, then we haven't learned from the event itself.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

if we don't respect each others views about Columbine, then we haven't learned from the event itself.

I respectfully call that garbage! It makes me mad when I see people constantly trying to defend Eric & Dylan's actions. They murdered 13 people and wrecked 100's of other lives. When people defend them despite this, I can't respect that.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

if we don't respect each others views about Columbine, then we haven't learned from the event itself.

I respectfully call that garbage! It makes me mad when I see people constantly trying to defend Eric & Dylan's actions. They murdered 13 people and wrecked 100's of other lives. When people defend them despite this, I can't respect that.

fair enough..

respect their right to an opinion and debate respectfully. I don't respect what E&D did, but I realize 99% of the defenders are really identifying with E&D's anger/depression/loneliness & position of outcast in social circles that were bullied. Unless I'm missing the point, I see people identifying with them & defending the source of the anger.. not the action itself.

For the 1% that support the mass murder of innocents, well God bless ya, I certainly won't.

I love this post, Father. Thank you.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

if we don't respect each others views about Columbine, then we haven't learned from the event itself.

I respectfully call that garbage! It makes me mad when I see people constantly trying to defend Eric & Dylan's actions. They murdered 13 people and wrecked 100's of other lives. When people defend them despite this, I can't respect that.

fair enough..

respect their right to an opinion and debate respectfully. I don't respect what E&D did, but I realize 99% of the defenders are really identifying with E&D's anger/depression/loneliness & position of outcast in social circles that were bullied. Unless I'm missing the point, I see people identifying with them & defending the source of the anger.. not the action itself.

For the 1% that support the mass murder of innocents, well God bless ya, I certainly won't.

I agree strongly both with Radioactive_Clothing and Fatheroftwo, as I think the positions are relaly not as different as they seem. Fatheroftwo hit the nail on the head petty squarely here imho.

I do not think I ever came under much flak concernign my views on Columbine, although I did come under flak for making our movie and for having an interest in Columbine in general.