what specific occurrence fascinates you the most?

This is actually a very very good thread. I have skimmed this one before, and I haven't made a post so I'm gonna make one now.

For me the few occurrences that fascinate me would be; how nonchalant Dylan was speaking to John and then letting him go, the moment of suicide between both boys when Eric shot himself first (I mean I really wish I knew how it went down and whether both boys even said anything or any significant look or signal), the overall period that they lived their life as normal as possible with a planned massacre in their minds that they executed together, and when the students gathered together to try to save Dave Sanders' life till his last breath.

I definitely forgot some but just a few add ons....I guess when Eric cried on the BT in his car during his reminiscing. When I get reminded how sad this guy was and how he was a dedicated hardworking teen who always tried and especially tried to give warning signs and was overlooked, that always fascinates me.

Well, I am fascinated by many occurrences/details of the happening.

Mostly, I am fascinated by the self-discipline these young guys had, besides their incredible anger. I can relate to your thoughts [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
So much planning, so much organizing - while doing their best to keep a normal facade so that their parents did not suspect that the boys are to do something serious...

Fascinated by how perfect partners (it would be way too ironical to write "parters in crime") they were to each other. One can rarely see such a perfect cooperation, not only between two teenagers but it is rare between adults too! (What could have happened if they had used this extraordinary cooperation for something creative and not destructive...)

And, I am not sure if it is just my assumption, but I see some symbolism in the gloves they wore. The autopsy reports mentioned that Dylan had a black glove - with the fingers cut off - on his left hand, while Eric had a black glove on his right hand (likeably the other half of the same pair of gloves.) We know that Dylan was left-handed but Eric was right-handed. Is it just me who is speculating?

Self-discipline, again. On the 20th, if I remember well, Eric would have had a testpaper but - for obvious reasons - he did not show up in the classroom. Later, when the teacher spot him, and asked why, he answered absolutely calmly that it was not important any more.

I wonder if this is on-topic, but there was another thing - after the shooting - that I still cannot find the right words to.
We know that none of the shooters had a proper funeral, both bodies were cremated after short and non-public ceremonies; and I read that Dylan's viewing was quite strange, with an open coffin.
If I know it well, there were Beanie Babies placed around his head - probably to hide the gunshot wound, but this is a combination of cruel reality and something sweet.
I still don't know what I should think. Touching in a painful way, maybe?

Moonshadow wrote:

Fascinated by how perfect partners (it would be way too ironical to write "parters in crime") they were to each other. One can rarely see such a perfect cooperation, not only between two teenagers but it is rare between adults too! (What could have happened if they had used this extraordinary cooperation for something creative and not destructive...)

And, I am not sure if it is just my assumption, but I see some symbolism in the gloves they wore. The autopsy reports mentioned that Dylan had a black glove - with the fingers cut off - on his left hand, while Eric had a black glove on his right hand (likeably the other half of the same pair of gloves.) We know that Dylan was left-handed but Eric was right-handed. Is it just me who is speculating?

Self-discipline, again. On the 20th, if I remember well, Eric would have had a testpaper but - for obvious reasons - he did not show up in the classroom. Later, when the teacher spot him, and asked why, he answered absolutely calmly that it was not important any more.

I wonder if this is on-topic, but there was another thing - after the shooting - that I still cannot find the right words to.
We know that none of the shooters had a proper funeral, both bodies were cremated after short and non-public ceremonies; and I read that Dylan's viewing was quite strange, with an open coffin.
If I know it well, there were Beanie Babies placed around his head - probably to hide the gunshot wound, but this is a combination of cruel reality and something sweet.
I still don't know what I should think. Touching in a painful way, maybe?

Wow, excellent post [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]! Great points made! and I have read that information on the glove exchange before. Don't worry, wouldn't say it's too much of speculation. They probably did decide to share but It's also inevitable that it got symbolic.

Thank you so much. Good to know that I am not the only one who noticed the symbolism this pair of gloves. And, many thanks for the positive feedback'

I think I mentioned this in another post, but Anders Breivik, the Norway Massacre Killer, stated before he shot the first person, it was like his body was resisting and a thousand voices in his head telling him NO. I wonder if E & D experienced that reaction. I really think in their minds, the killings would be awesome, just like the movies, but the reality was much more grim and I think they lost their interest once they experienced death up close. After the massacre in the library, there were classrooms full of students, basically sitting ducks. Instead of continuing their rampage, they roamed around and tried to detonate those pathetic bombs.

Also, the suicides, especially Eric's. Every time I think of the moments leading up to that, I almost get physically ill. From the Rampart Range video where they are videoing the shotgun slug in the tree or bowling pin, Eric commented something to the effect of imagine that in someone's brain.

For me it would be the entire storyline of Columbine including everything that happend before and after. The legacy it left behind and it garnered so much attention from the media. Nothing will ever compare to Columbine.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: yes, I have read what Breivik said about this.
We will never learn if Eric and Dylan experienced the same, but I assume that it is a natural humane reaction that everyone might have in this situation.
In my opinion, these kinds of planned shootings are different from the impulsive type of murders (where the person might not be in the position to think clearly and shoots while his or her mind is covered with that red mist.) At a planned massacre, the brain has enough time to consider if it is the right thing to do and has good chances to reach the conclusion "no, it is NOT!"

Yes, the suicides are just as horrible. May I ask why it is the moments leading up to the suicides that makes you almost physically ill?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: this is very true! There were many similar shootings since Columbine, but somehow this seems to be the most shocking, even after so many years. Strange.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I edited my post because of the statement Eric made at Rampart Range regarding the damage done by a shotgun slug. He knew it would be awful for his family to see the results of that. It's a quick and almost certain death for sure, but the moments leading up to it and the actual suicide,for some reason, bother me. Dylan's? Not so much.

Idk, I work in a morgue and I've seen much worse.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: I remember this! Eric seemed to be very concerned about his parents' feelings.

I think it is quite normal to be bothered about the moments before suicide - and the deed itself: one has decided to die and is about to die, but the brain is not dead yet and so can understand what is coming.

Huhh, I can imagine that you have seen worse things than guys shot in the head. Your job surely demands very strong nerves.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I wonder (and hope not) if his family saw his body or has saw the suicide photos. I also can't remember if he was buried or cremated.

As far as work, I'm used to it. Children, people who have burned to death and sometimes suicides (such as Eric's) get to me, but you move on to the next case.

Eric's suicide fascinates me as well. When I look at his death photo I think of all the hateful things he wrote in his journal and I think that everything he hated about the world was actually directed at himself. He hated himself yet he called himself godlike. What happened in this kid's life to make him think the only way he could ever get any respect was to murder people? Actually, Eric's whole backstory fascinates me more than Dylan's.....probably because we know more about Dylan than Eric. Eric wasn't ugly or gawky or weird or overly shy.......so why did he have such a hard time connecting with his peers and being respected? And even though NBK seems like it was initially Dylan's idea, it fascinates me the way that Eric planned pretty much everything and was so dedicated to it all. It's just difficult to imagine someone that age having that much dedication to anything.

Freezingmoon wrote:

Eric's suicide fascinates me as well. When I look at his death photo I think of all the hateful things he wrote in his journal and I think that everything he hated about the world was actually directed at himself. He hated himself yet he called himself godlike. What happened in this kid's life to make him think the only way he could ever get any respect was to murder people? Actually, Eric's whole backstory fascinates me more than Dylan's.....probably because we know more about Dylan than Eric. Eric wasn't ugly or gawky or weird or overly shy.......so why did he have such a hard time connecting with his peers and being respected? And even though NBK seems like it was initially Dylan's idea, it fascinates me the way that Eric planned pretty much everything and was so dedicated to it all. It's just difficult to imagine someone that age having that much dedication to anything.

Exactly! For at least a year they planned this massacre, all while going about normal routines. I, too, am more interested in Eric. Some have said that method of suicide is a sign of self-loathing. Perhaps, in his mind, he didn't want scientists to study his brain after death, or maybe it was that it was guaranteed death, quick and painless.

Another thing is all the roaming around they did, not killing people, not really doing anything all while the school was under their control. Why?

Freezingmoon wrote:

Eric's suicide fascinates me as well. When I look at his death photo I think of all the hateful things he wrote in his journal and I think that everything he hated about the world was actually directed at himself. He hated himself yet he called himself godlike. What happened in this kid's life to make him think the only way he could ever get any respect was to murder people? Actually, Eric's whole backstory fascinates me more than Dylan's.....probably because we know more about Dylan than Eric. Eric wasn't ugly or gawky or weird or overly shy.......so why did he have such a hard time connecting with his peers and being respected? And even though NBK seems like it was initially Dylan's idea, it fascinates me the way that Eric planned pretty much everything and was so dedicated to it all. It's just difficult to imagine someone that age having that much dedication to anything.

Good post. and that's why I chose Eric in that other thread and still to this day is the most fascinating to study out of the two. He's a perfect example of someone who's doomed all along and may not survive that long or safe in this society because gosh he detested himself so much.

"it fascinates me the way that Eric planned pretty much everything and was so dedicated to it all. It's just difficult to imagine someone that age having that much dedication to anything." He had dedicated himself to good things as much as he could and to people who never appreciated it or himself so his last attempt of his life might aswell be utilising his good trait to plan mass murder and his death.

Tomb wrote:

Another thing is all the roaming around they did, not killing people, not really doing anything all while the school was under their control. Why?

stalling, waiting for bombs, adrenaline loss.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Tomb wrote:

Another thing is all the roaming around they did, not killing people, not really doing anything all while the school was under their control. Why?

stalling, waiting for bombs, adrenaline loss.

Makes sense, hoping against all odds those ridiculous bombs would detonate. Plus, I don't think up close, personal murder was quite what they thought it would be, thus why no one was killed after the massacre in the library.

Gustopoet2 wrote:

That Amanda Stair was in the library and was witness to the killings....

The fact I haven't been shy about going into graphic detail about it?

Tomb wrote:

Another thing is all the roaming around they did, not killing people, not really doing anything all while the school was under their control. Why?

I think they figured the cops were going to be coming in quick. I don't think it ever sat in their minds that the cops would just remain outside and not try to enter the building or really do much of anything.

Also I think even for the most angry people, shooting a scared kid beneath a table and having their blood splatter against you is stomach churning and was not what they wanted.

No one really fought back, this wasn't Doom with guns and zombies and fighting....they were shooting defenseless children that were scared and crying.

Lizpuff wrote:

Also I think even for the most angry people, shooting a scared kid beneath a table and having their blood splatter against you is stomach churning and was not what they wanted.

No one really fought back, this wasn't Doom with guns and zombies and fighting....they were shooting defenseless children that were scared and crying.

BRILLIANT point Lizpuff. There it is right there. There was no action-driven fantasy or adrenaline pump because they were shooting at kids that WERE NOT FIGHTING BACK. It's not like a paintball fight game, it wasn't like war, there was nothing to feel the sense of fight or win about because their targets were kids who were defenseless anyway. I think for Eric at least what he hoped for was a kid to just come at him so he could shoot his heart out and live through his fantasies for abit. That's why he wanted the cop shootout! It was the closest he could get to a movie scene. They were idling cause the loss of adrenaline incurred quicker than expected. No police, failed bombs. It was just dud.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Also I think even for the most angry people, shooting a scared kid beneath a table and having their blood splatter against you is stomach churning and was not what they wanted.

No one really fought back, this wasn't Doom with guns and zombies and fighting....they were shooting defenseless children that were scared and crying.

BRILLIANT point Lizpuff. There it is right there. There was no action-driven fantasy or adrenaline pump because they were shooting at kids that WERE NOT FIGHTING BACK. It's not like a paintball fight game, it wasn't like war, there was nothing to feel the sense of fight or win about because their targets were kids who were defenseless anyway. I think for Eric at least what he hoped for was a kid to just come at him so he could shoot his heart out and live through his fantasies for abit. That's why he wanted the cop shootout! It was the closest he could get to a movie scene. They were idling cause the loss of adrenaline incurred quicker than expected. No police, failed bombs. It was just dud.

Eric wanted to put everyone in Doom to have the strongest survive. And here he is failing. Sorry Eric I guess you would be among the dead....

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Also I think even for the most angry people, shooting a scared kid beneath a table and having their blood splatter against you is stomach churning and was not what they wanted.

No one really fought back, this wasn't Doom with guns and zombies and fighting....they were shooting defenseless children that were scared and crying.

BRILLIANT point Lizpuff. There it is right there. There was no action-driven fantasy or adrenaline pump because they were shooting at kids that WERE NOT FIGHTING BACK. It's not like a paintball fight game, it wasn't like war, there was nothing to feel the sense of fight or win about because their targets were kids who were defenseless anyway. I think for Eric at least what he hoped for was a kid to just come at him so he could shoot his heart out and live through his fantasies for abit. That's why he wanted the cop shootout! It was the closest he could get to a movie scene. They were idling cause the loss of adrenaline incurred quicker than expected. No police, failed bombs. It was just dud.

.

Exactly, up close executions are not what is portrayed in movies. The sights (oh god, the carnage of a sawed off 12 gauge loaded with .00 buck pretty much point blank, makes me cringe and pray the victims' death photos never see the light of day), the deafening sound of the alarms and the guns. I can't even shoot my .22 without ear protection without losing hearing for days. And the smells. A lot of people that die lose control of their bowels and bladder and sometimes purge stomach content.

And like you said, it wasn't against people who were armed, like video games, these were defenseless children. I can't imagine being in that position and looking into the innocent eyes of someone I have no gripes with and pulling the trigger.

Even in my job, a body has a smell, fresher ones are not AS bad as people who have been dead for some time. I can't say you really get used to it, but it's definitely there. And once you smell it, you'll never forget it.

I wouldn't want to live with that the rest of my life.