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 Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.

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Violenta

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PostSubject: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 3:37 am

I'm not sure if this has been discussed much here, but I've been thinking on it quite a bit.

I've always wondered how Dylan came to be the more "acceptable" shooter. I know it seems he definitely had more friends, but the fact that he was so brilliant at being deceptive ..well, that makes me think Dylan was so much more dangerous.

Of course they both have fangirls and boys for that matter, and from what I've seen Eric comes out ahead in that category. I myself have a thing for Mr. Harris. Not out of a sick love of murder, but I think mine comes from pretty much knowing how he would have been treated in that school. Not pity, but probably projecting my sympathy on guys I saw being terrorized in Columbine.

Cullen did a huge disservice to people actually looking for the truth. Most people, even some "fans" take his blissful, romanticized, Dylan drivel as gospel.

Is that why it seems so many people that knew them are quick to show more sympathy to Dylan? Or maybe because Eric didn't have many other real friends?
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 4:03 am

Violenta wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed much here, but I've been thinking on it quite a bit.

I've always wondered how Dylan came to be the more "acceptable" shooter. I know it seems he definitely had more friends, but the fact that he was so brilliant at being deceptive ..well, that makes me think Dylan was so much more dangerous.

Of course they both have fangirls and boys for that matter, and from what I've seen Eric comes out ahead in that category. I myself have a thing for Mr. Harris. Not out of a sick love of murder, but I think mine comes from pretty much knowing how he would have been treated in that school. Not pity, but probably projecting my sympathy on guys I saw being terrorized in Columbine.

Cullen did a huge disservice to people actually looking for the truth. Most people, even some "fans" take his blissful, romanticized, Dylan drivel as gospel.

Is that why it seems so many people that knew them are quick to show more sympathy to Dylan?  Or maybe because Eric didn't have many other real friends?

It's the pictures.

I think it's the fact that Dylan looks so goofy ... his smiles are broader. He comes across as more of a fun-loving guy.

Eric almost always looks shy, vulnerable, and (dare I say it?) somewhat emotionally sensitive.

It's always about how you look, isn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 4:43 am

Add the fact that Eric really didn't have many friends, and were losing them slowly. He got arguments with Zack, Nate, Nick, Brooks, even Dylan at times. While most of his friends said "We're not taking this crap. See you." Dylan stayed right through him in the end...sort of "protecting him". This is where I agree with Judy Brown. Dylan had way more friends, and Dylan wanted to be there for Eric because he consistently lost friends. Eric also had a rage that was damn well known throughout that high school. Dylan did not.

It has also been said many students at CHS were not surprised that Eric did what he did because he always spoke of blowing about the school, while Dylan was more goofy, loveable, and a "Nice guy" that the only possible conclusion is that Eric made him do the killings...when that is all garbage for obvious reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 6:00 am

Yep, Eric was good in meeting new people but he always got in trouble with them in the long run - which tbh is a very typicall psychopathic pattern. Dylan was the rare exception, but he became dependant on Eric. Each modified some of his behavior to match the other, but Dylan far more than Eric.


Ever wondered why Eric is most fondly remembered by people who knew him just "in passing" (neighbours, boss, diversion officers) or ones he knew for just a short time (Susan)?

Psychopatic behavioral patterns, that's why.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 10:38 am

It's the journals. Dylan leads with "love" and Eric with "hate." The irony is the journals were left behind for a good reason: the boys wanted to make a public statement. I think the reality may be almost the opposite: Dylan was more filled with rage and homicide and Eric was the one who was brimming over with emotion and unrequited love.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 12:17 pm

If you think about it, Dylan spent a lot of time TALKING about love, and Eric was actually out trying to FIND it. We all know Eric didn't really score at all; not even second dates.

In the end he wrote about trying to get laid ultimately. But I agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Most people think everything Eric did was an act, but I disagree. I think he made things more dramatic for shock value, but if you look closer you see that he was extremely respectful to girls he was interested in. And unfortunately, most nice guys do finish last. I feel his behavior and supposed lack of conscience
was moreso related to military upbringing than being an unfeeling robot.

I've always seen Dylan as much more than depressed and lonely. In the end, even if one of his "loves" reciprocated I'm pretty sure his outlook wouldn't have changed for more than a few weeks at most. He was in love with the idea of love. I don't think it went much deeper. After all, how could a GOD lower himself with a mere zombie? Dylan had an unrealistic self view of perfection, where I think Eric fully recognized his flaws and appreciated people he could find something in common with.

Either way, all we can really do is guess. And to be honest, myself included, most teenagers could be termed psychopathic from journals during anger or depression. Psychopathy is a possibility in both of them; both clearly had mental issues. I know when I was in HS, if anyone were reading my private journals, they likely would have thought similarly.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 1:23 pm

I wonder if they ever read one another's journals? I guess not, especially Dylan letting Eric read his. I wouldn't be overly surprised though if Eric let Dylan have a flick through his to show what hate filled writings he was leaving behind for the world to see. Maybe Dylan told Eric he just didn't keep one?
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 1:46 pm

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
I wonder if they ever read one another's journals? I guess not, especially Dylan letting Eric read his. I wouldn't be overly surprised though if Eric let Dylan have a flick through his to show what hate filled writings he was leaving behind for the world to see. Maybe Dylan told Eric he just didn't keep one?

Eric wrote basically the same things on his website as in his journal. There wasn't much in Eric's journal that "Reb" didn't say on an almost daily basis. So even if Dylan did see Eric's journal he probably wouldn't have been surprised by anything in it. If Eric read Dylan's journal (a topic for that exists around the forum somewhere, I think) he probably would have tried to comfort Dylan by saying NBK would make all the suffering worthwhile. This is not my idea, btw, someone posted it in the previously mentioned thread and I  think they were 100% right.  Here's a link to the thread but the original poster seems to have been banned:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On another note, Dylan's journal is the one that seems like it shows a hidden side. The more I've studied Dylan, tho, the more I view his journal as being the diary of a killer and not a lover. His doodles and notes in the various day-planners, etc. as well as his creative writing and his day to day actions show a tremendously violent and cruel person. That person is also present in the journal but it is hidden behind all the faux romanticism. I think that journal was a way for Dylan to bury what was left of his compassion and love, not celebrate it.

People see all the hearts (broken and sewn) in Dylan's journal and read the word "love" again and again they start to forget that it's the same guy who drew sketches of improvised flamethrowers during class while planning to kill everyone around him, who shot Lance Kirkland's face off after Lance begged him for help, and who shot Kyle pointblank with a double-barreled shotgun while screaming "Wooo! Look at his head!" Then, a couple minutes later, emptied a 9mm clip into some scared girls who were cowering under a desk.

Yeah, Dylan was a real teddy-bear.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 3:51 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

BINGO.

I've thought almost exactly the same since the journals were released. I've never thought of Dylan as the "romantic, love searching, sweeter one". He basically wanted to find love only for the girl to die with him. It probably boils down to not wanting to die alone, but it still has always given me chills.

With Eric, he pretty much showed his feelings on humanity in both his writings and irl personality. He didn't seem to hide it much. Dylan, on the opposite spectrum, put forward a complete facade. This is why I've taken Cullen's half-assed psychopath diagnosis for what it is : ridiculous.

Anyone else feel that Cullen comes across like a rabid fan boy? He's definitely on Team Dylan, but I think he's hardcore into Eric as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 5:55 pm

Violenta wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

BINGO.

I've thought almost exactly the same since the journals were released. I've never thought of Dylan as the "romantic, love searching, sweeter one". He basically wanted to find love only for the girl to die with him. It probably boils down to not wanting to die alone, but it still has always given me chills.

With Eric, he pretty much showed his feelings on humanity in both his writings and irl personality. He didn't seem to hide it much. Dylan, on the opposite spectrum, put forward a complete facade. This is why I've taken Cullen's half-assed psychopath diagnosis for what it is : ridiculous.

Anyone else feel that Cullen comes across like a rabid fan boy? He's definitely on Team Dylan, but I think he's hardcore into Eric as well.

Good question. Sometimes I feel like Cullen just bit off more than he could chew. Didn't he say he experienced multiple instances of PTSD just researching Columbine? Poor baby. Now imagine if he had to get pelted with tampons and ketchup and be laughed at by an entire high school for four years. He might've, I dunno, snapped or something. Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 8:08 pm

I also feel that he slightly exaggerates the "10 years of research" angle. Too bad he wrote the crap he did, except for the glaring misinformation, the book was well written and could've been appreciated by a lot of people. Also I can easily picture him being on the receiving end of ketchup laced tampons.

Call me psychic.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 8:50 pm

Violenta wrote:
I also feel that he slightly exaggerates the "10 years of research" angle. Too bad he wrote the crap he did, except for the glaring misinformation, the book was well written and could've been appreciated by a lot of people. Also I can easily picture him being on the receiving end of ketchup laced tampons.

Call me psychic.

Laughing Just wait until the miniseries finally comes out.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 21, 2015 9:12 pm

One can only hope...but I'd likely only watch if Cullen plays Dylan and recreates the tampon scene.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception.   Thoughts on E & D's friendship and public perception. Icon_minitimeWed Jul 22, 2015 1:54 am

Gustopoet2 wrote:
It's the journals. Dylan leads with "love" and Eric with "hate." The irony is the journals were left behind for a good reason: the boys wanted to make a public statement. I think the reality may be almost the opposite: Dylan was more filled with rage and homicide and Eric was the one who was brimming over with emotion and unrequited love.

I think jounral-Eric was very similar to everyday-life-Eric. Journal-Dylan was hovewer different from the Dylan that Eric knew. I think Dylan tried hard to conform to Eric, to the point of making nazi salutes being half-jeweish.

Dylan was thinking of a rampage probably earliuer than Eric was, but in the end it was predominately Dylan who was conforming to Eric.

They were both equal partners in crime and both killed gladly and without remorse.

However, my view is that Dylan gave up more of hos own identity to get to that point, Eric not so much.

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