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 Thoughts about friendship

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Kerea2244
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PostSubject: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 4:26 am

What do you think of E & D friendship?
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 8:01 am

Kerea2244 wrote:
What do you think of E & D friendship?

I think it's accurate to say they were pals for life.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 1:17 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
Kerea2244 wrote:
What do you think of E & D friendship?

I think it's accurate to say they were pals for life.
I think so too
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 2:12 pm

The true dynamic between the two has always been highly speculated on. Some say Eric was in control and manipulated a love starved, depressed Dylan to finally act on his suicidal thoughts, only turning it into a murder/suicide first.

Then there are some who think Dylan was the master manipulator. Who took advantage of Eric's anger, low self-esteem, loneliness, him being an outsider, etc. And used him as a way to finally get past all his reservations about his long talked about, long wished for suicide.

There are many other variations as well, all just as likely or unlikely as the next. Which is why we are still asking the very same question 19+ years later.

Truth is we will never really know just how these two kids came together, and how it went from a normal friendship into what it ultimately became.


Last edited by ShadowedGoddess on Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 4:05 pm

I wonder if they would of been friends after they graduated?

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 4:36 pm

Tommy QTR wrote:
I wonder if they would of been friends after they graduated?

Well if they were such good friends that they'd kill and die together I don't see why not.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 4:36 pm

This is one of my favorite topics to talk about. Because it’s always been something that has intrigued me me since the beginning.

Especially since their dynamic seem to be looked at differently by almost everyone and it’s also very telling how they talk about each other in their diversion files.

Then again Dylan spent seven pages in Eric’s yearbook talking about their friendship and making Eric laugh and he didn’t seem to do that with any of his other friends from what we’ve seen. That has to mean something. I also feel like Eric didn’t have a lot of people and Dylan has been known to never abandon someone. He was very loyal.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 5:07 pm

When I think about them, I can't help but think "At least they had each other..."

I know friendship doesn't always lead to happiness, but true friendship is something very rare and valuable and I wonder if they were aware of it and the luck they had, despite all the things bad in their life. But instead of building together, they decided to destroy together. They could have made movies, video-games, or even write a fanzine or a website about video-games. They could have created one of the first websites about pop culture or music and it could have become a reference now. But instead they choose destruction.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 5:17 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
Tommy QTR wrote:
I wonder if they would of been friends after they graduated?

Well if they were such good friends that they'd kill and die together I don't see why not.

The fact that for whatever reasons neither one betrayed the other is one thing that always struck me about Columbine. At any point along the line either E or D could have gotten cold feet and backed away. Yet they both stayed in it for the long haul.

So I think it safe to say that they had some sort of extreme bond. Who knows what would have happened if they hadn't followed through with the plan and actually graduated and moved on?  They could have been lifelong friends, OR they could have drifted apart as new people came into their lives and their circumstances changed.  Just another question that we will never have an answer to.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 5:40 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
Tommy QTR wrote:
I wonder if they would of been friends after they graduated?

Well if they were such good friends that they'd kill and die together I don't see why not.

The fact that for whatever reasons neither one betrayed the other is one thing that always struck me about Columbine. At any point along the line either E or D could have gotten cold feet and backed away. Yet they both stayed in it for the long haul.

Maybe for them it would not have been a betrayal. We don't know what they said to each other, but I assume at least both of them thought "What if I change my mind?" and so maybe they discussed about that and promised to tell if they started to have doubts or something, but of course we cannot know.

But I still don't know if they were "pleased" to let the other kill himself. Did they thought there was no solution at all and no hope for themselves and the other, because if they really loved each others that much, they should have tried to prevent the other to kill himself. But since they didn't, was it because they thought it would be a relief for their best friend? Were they projecting their own desire to the other? Or maybe we overvalue their friendship and they both had a personal wish and thought doing it together was a good way to fulfill it.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 6:02 pm

Neah wrote:
When I think about them, I can't help but think "At least they had each other..."

I know friendship doesn't always lead to happiness, but true friendship is something very rare and valuable and I wonder if they were aware of it and the luck they had, despite all the things bad in their life. But instead of building together, they decided to destroy together. They could have made movies, video-games, or even write a fanzine or a website about video-games. They could have created one of the first websites about pop culture or music and it could have become a reference now. But instead they choose destruction.

I wish they would’ve created a really interesting kind of Tarantino-sequence film where they could’ve gotten all their aggression out and who knows what could’ve happened but something I always had to remind myself is regardless of how much we learn about them they still were very different than us. Mentally there’s something that changed that people that don’t think that way don’t completely understand. I hope that makes sense. And clearly you know I have empathy for them and I’m interested in the case and have been for a long time but that’s something I remind myself of.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 6:14 pm

Neah wrote:
But I still don't know if they were "pleased" to let the other kill himself. Did they thought there was no solution at all and no hope for themselves and the other, because if they really loved each others that much, they should have tried to prevent the other to kill himself. But since they didn't, was it because they thought it would be a relief for their best friend? Were they projecting their own desire to the other? Or maybe we overvalue their friendship and they both had a personal wish and thought doing it together was a good way to fulfill it.


From almost everything they talked about in their journals and in the basement tape transcripts, they had ALWAYS intended to die, either by suicide or getting killed by the police. I think Eric mentioned the very small possibility of making a run for it, but I don't think he actually thought nor planned on it.

Obviously E&D thought there were no other solution for themselves OTHER then to follow through with the attack and then die by whatever means they could. Being taken alive was never in the plan. I actually do think that near the end they probably considered death as a relief.

Especially in Dylan's case. He had talked about death and suicide for years. Yet to our knowledge had never attempted it before that day. I think he was either scared to die alone, OR just needed something big enough to finally make him follow through with it. Helping your best buddy gun down 13 people would have done just that. Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 6:16 pm

Neah wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
Tommy QTR wrote:
I wonder if they would of been friends after they graduated?

Well if they were such good friends that they'd kill and die together I don't see why not.

The fact that for whatever reasons neither one betrayed the other is one thing that always struck me about Columbine. At any point along the line either E or D could have gotten cold feet and backed away. Yet they both stayed in it for the long haul.

Maybe for them it would not have been a betrayal. We don't know what they said to each other, but I assume at least both of them thought "What if I change my mind?" and so maybe they discussed about that and promised to tell if they started to have doubts or something, but of course we cannot know.

But I still don't know if they were "pleased" to let the other kill himself. Did they thought there was no solution at all and no hope for themselves and the other, because if they really loved each others that much, they should have tried to prevent the other to kill himself. But since they didn't, was it because they thought it would be a relief for their best friend? Were they projecting their own desire to the other? Or maybe we overvalue their friendship and they both had a personal wish and thought doing it together was a good way to fulfill it.

I think Dylan always wanted to die and I assume they talked about some of those things.

Also I think they checked in from time to time. Especially since I think it was in Dylan’s planner it said “death, afraid”

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 6:23 pm

Sure, I have no doubts they both wanted to die, but just because I want to commit suicide (I don't, don't worry, it's just an example) doesn't mean that I also want my best friend to die, even if he or she feels depressed. That is why I wonder if they were "happy" for the other, or if they thought more about themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 6:28 pm

Neah wrote:
Sure, I have no doubts they both wanted to die, but just because I want to commit suicide (I don't, don't worry, it's just an example) doesn't mean that I also want my best friend to die, even if he or she feels depressed. That is why I wonder if they were "happy" for the other, or if they thought more about themselves.



I'm not sure they cared very much to be honest. scratch I think after the carnage it was more of a "OK we just did this shit, and now its time to finish it. SO you do you, and I'll do me" type of thing. I think they just left it up to the other to do what they wanted to at the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 6:34 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Neah wrote:
Sure, I have no doubts they both wanted to die, but just because I want to commit suicide (I don't, don't worry, it's just an example) doesn't mean that I also want my best friend to die, even if he or she feels depressed. That is why I wonder if they were "happy" for the other, or if they thought more about themselves.



I'm not sure they cared very much to be honest. scratch   I think after the carnage it was more of a "OK we just did this shit, and now its time to finish it. SO you do you, and I'll do me" type of thing. I think they just left it up to the other to do what they wanted to at the end.

Yeah, you're probably right. Especially since I think depression often makes people care less about others.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 6:40 pm

I think Eric was angry and embarrassed about the bombs and was done. He didn’t wait.

As far as the evidence shows Dylan was waiting to die far longer. There’s also something oddly poetic about not letting Eric die alone. Dylan was the only one who got what he wanted that day.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 6:46 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Dylan was the only one who got what he wanted that day.


Agreed. A lot of things Eric wanted thankfully failed. But Dylan had mostly wanted his own death. So in that moment at the very end he did get more of what he wanted then Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 7:00 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Dylan was the only one who got what he wanted that day.


Agreed. A lot of things Eric wanted thankfully failed. But Dylan had mostly wanted his own death. So in that moment at the very end he did get more of what he wanted then Eric.

I get the feeling from the evidence we have and I think many would agree, Eric did most of the work regarding the bombs. Dylan seemed to fret more about his clothes.

Correct me if I am wrong, Dylan's pipe bomb "VoDkA's Vengeance" was found in his room on that day right?

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeMon Sep 17, 2018 8:03 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:


Correct me if I am wrong, Dylan's pipe bomb "VoDkA's Vengeance" was found in his room on that day right?

You're correct. The pipe bombs named Atlanta and Vengeance were found at the Klebold's house.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeTue Sep 18, 2018 6:40 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

The fact that for whatever reasons neither one betrayed the other is one thing that always struck me about Columbine. At any point along the line either E or D could have gotten cold feet and backed away. Yet they both stayed in it for the long haul.

So I think it safe to say that they had some sort of extreme bond. Who knows what would have happened if they hadn't followed through with the plan and actually graduated and moved on?  They could have been lifelong friends, OR they could have drifted apart as new people came into their lives and their circumstances changed.  Just another question that we will never have an answer to.

I think that neither of them had any sort of bright future ahead, despite whatever their diversion counsellors thought. Eric was a ticking bomb, no pun intended, a Luca Brasi kind of guy who only had violence in his mind and could face situations only through the distorted, blood-tinted lens of the immense rage that burned in his head. Sooner or later, I believe sooner rather than later, he would have blown up anyway, lashing out at God-knows-who, God-knows-where.

Dylan was a major depressive, with an unacknowledged alcoholism problem and a host of psychiatric diseases of which the suicidal depression was only the top of the iceberg. I suspect he would have failed in college, as he was failing in high school, and ended up either with severe susbstance abuse or dead by suicide after a major depressive bout. And God, how would have been better had he thrown himself under a train or shot in the head before NBK...

Both would have required aggressive psychiatric therapy just to somewhat function without harming themselves or others, let alone be considered fully healthy from a mental point of view. Eric in particular would qualify for forced psychiatric treatment, to get the care he so desperately needed he should have been committed for at least some months to a mental health facility.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeTue Sep 18, 2018 11:19 pm

Mein Gott wrote:
Eric was a ticking bomb, no pun intended, a Luca Brasi kind of guy who only had violence in his mind and could face situations only through the distorted, blood-tinted lens of the immense rage that burned in his head. Sooner or later, I believe sooner rather than later, he would have blown up anyway, lashing out at God-knows-who, God-knows-where. 

I'd like to think that in some other reality Eric was accepted into the Marines and channeled his violent impulses on the battlefield. 

Then again there have been a few notorious killers, rapists, and general criminals who've served and went on to commit more crimes.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 12:21 am

Mein Gott wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:

The fact that for whatever reasons neither one betrayed the other is one thing that always struck me about Columbine. At any point along the line either E or D could have gotten cold feet and backed away. Yet they both stayed in it for the long haul.

So I think it safe to say that they had some sort of extreme bond. Who knows what would have happened if they hadn't followed through with the plan and actually graduated and moved on?  They could have been lifelong friends, OR they could have drifted apart as new people came into their lives and their circumstances changed.  Just another question that we will never have an answer to.

I think that neither of them had any sort of bright future ahead, despite whatever their diversion counsellors thought. Eric was a ticking bomb, no pun intended, a Luca Brasi kind of guy who only had violence in his mind and could face situations only through the distorted, blood-tinted lens of the immense rage that burned in his head. Sooner or later, I believe sooner rather than later, he would have blown up anyway, lashing out at God-knows-who, God-knows-where.

Dylan was a major depressive, with an unacknowledged alcoholism problem and a host of psychiatric diseases of which the suicidal depression was only the top of the iceberg. I suspect he would have failed in college, as he was failing in high school, and ended up either with severe susbstance abuse or dead by suicide after a major depressive bout. And God, how would have been better had he thrown himself under a train or shot in the head before NBK...

Both would have required aggressive psychiatric therapy just to somewhat function without harming themselves or others, let alone be considered fully healthy from a mental point of view. Eric in particular would qualify for forced psychiatric treatment, to get the care he so desperately needed he should have been committed for at least some months to a mental health facility.


I do agree that without professional help both E&D would probably have had life long issues.

Eric had some major anger problems, that probably wouldn't have went away on their own and likely would have worsened over time. It's not hard to imagine Eric getting older and one day snapping under the strain.  BUT I still refuse to believe that he was just a psychopath beyond all help.  Eric was smart, but had a host of issues, coupled with a huge amount of built up rage and aggression. Yet if he had gotten the right kind of help at the right time in his life, I feel he could have went on to lead a fairly productive life.

Dylan to me is much more complex. I have always thought Dylan was in need of help much more then Eric ever dared to be. Simply because Dylan's thought process was SO fractured and out of place. He had lost himself completely, and even stated in his journal something along the lines of him not know when this entity had taken him over. He had lost himself to the depression to the degree of being on autopilot for the most part, even forgetting or refusing to eat(he had starved himself to the point of looking anorexic)or bathe on a regular basis. Dylan to me needed intense therapy and the right combo of meds for his depression.  But even he wasn't a lost cause.


Last edited by ShadowedGoddess on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 12:29 am

QuestionMark wrote:
Mein Gott wrote:
Eric was a ticking bomb, no pun intended, a Luca Brasi kind of guy who only had violence in his mind and could face situations only through the distorted, blood-tinted lens of the immense rage that burned in his head. Sooner or later, I believe sooner rather than later, he would have blown up anyway, lashing out at God-knows-who, God-knows-where. 

I'd like to think that in some other reality Eric was accepted into the Marines and channeled his violent impulses on the battlefield. 

Then again there have been a few notorious killers, rapists, and general criminals who've served and went on to commit more crimes.

In fact, both Charles Whitman and Timothy McVeigh were former servicemembers. I don't think Eric would have fit in the military, regardless, as he had far less control over his aggressive impulses than both Whitman and McVeigh: at the tender age of 18, and coming from a sheltered, somewhat privileged upbringing Eric had already developed quite the deviant personality and if authorities had followed on every lead he would have surely been jailed. Then again, who knows, perhaps he would have recognized that the army provided him with a better chance to inflict pain on innocents and he'd have faked good behavior in order to have the opportunity of getting in the position of legally harming people. Who knows.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 12:34 am

QuestionMark wrote:
Mein Gott wrote:
Eric was a ticking bomb, no pun intended, a Luca Brasi kind of guy who only had violence in his mind and could face situations only through the distorted, blood-tinted lens of the immense rage that burned in his head. Sooner or later, I believe sooner rather than later, he would have blown up anyway, lashing out at God-knows-who, God-knows-where. 

I'd like to think that in some other reality Eric was accepted into the Marines and channeled his violent impulses on the battlefield. 

Then again there have been a few notorious killers, rapists, and general criminals who've served and went on to commit more crimes.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  I agree. Eric even said in his journal that being in the Military would have given him a reason to be good. I feel it could have went one of two ways. Either it would have been just the thing to break him out of the mind set he had, and given him the respect and pride he seemed to crave. OR it could have backfired and given him even more reason to hate the world, as it added more skill to his killing abilities.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 12:58 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Mein Gott wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:

The fact that for whatever reasons neither one betrayed the other is one thing that always struck me about Columbine. At any point along the line either E or D could have gotten cold feet and backed away. Yet they both stayed in it for the long haul.

So I think it safe to say that they had some sort of extreme bond. Who knows what would have happened if they hadn't followed through with the plan and actually graduated and moved on?  They could have been lifelong friends, OR they could have drifted apart as new people came into their lives and their circumstances changed.  Just another question that we will never have an answer to.

I think that neither of them had any sort of bright future ahead, despite whatever their diversion counsellors thought. Eric was a ticking bomb, no pun intended, a Luca Brasi kind of guy who only had violence in his mind and could face situations only through the distorted, blood-tinted lens of the immense rage that burned in his head. Sooner or later, I believe sooner rather than later, he would have blown up anyway, lashing out at God-knows-who, God-knows-where.

Dylan was a major depressive, with an unacknowledged alcoholism problem and a host of psychiatric diseases of which the suicidal depression was only the top of the iceberg. I suspect he would have failed in college, as he was failing in high school, and ended up either with severe susbstance abuse or dead by suicide after a major depressive bout. And God, how would have been better had he thrown himself under a train or shot in the head before NBK...

Both would have required aggressive psychiatric therapy just to somewhat function without harming themselves or others, let alone be considered fully healthy from a mental point of view. Eric in particular would qualify for forced psychiatric treatment, to get the care he so desperately needed he should have been committed for at least some months to a mental health facility.


I do agree that without professional help both E&D would probably have had life long issues.

Eric had some major anger problems, that probably wouldn't have went away on their own and likely would have worsened over time. It's not hard to imagine Eric getting older and one day snapping under the strain.  BUT I still refuse to believe that he was a just a psychopath beyond all help.  Eric was smart, but had a host of issues, coupled with a huge amount of built up rage and aggression. Yet if he had gotten the right kind of help at the right time in his life, I feel he could have went on to lead a fairly productive life.

Dylan to me is much more complex. I have always thought Dylan was in need of help much more then Eric ever dared to be. Simply because Dylan's thought process was SO fractured and out of place. He had lost himself completely, and even stated in his journal something along the lines of him not know when this entity had taken him over. He had lost himself to the depression to the degree of being on autopilot for the most part, even forgetting or refusing to eat(he had starved himself to the point of looking anorexic)or bathe on a regular basis. Dylan to me needed intense therapy and the right combo of meds for his depression.  But even he wasn't a lost cause.

Nobody is a lost cause. Humans always have the potential of changing, of getting better.
As far as Eric was concerned, however, he was indeed a full blown psychopath. Now, to make a formal diagnosis he should have been subjected to a proper examination and observation, and of course he never was, but all the red flags are there. As Vito Corleone once said about Luca Brasi (a fictional character of the Godfather series who, in my opinion, closely resembles Eric), Eric was one of those people screwing around screaming "kill me! kill me!". He was quite literally bent on a self-destructive spiral in which he wanted to drag as many other people as possible, Dylan included.

Dylan on the other hand does look a bit more sympathetic, but only because he expressed his suffering in what to us seems a bit more passive and pathetic way than Eric. But he was as evil as his pal. The two fit each other like key and lock, fueling and empowering each other. While Eric might have been the more proactive of the two, Dylan was the one whose psychological condition surely made it easier to recognize how unthinkably wrong was what he was going to do. He chose to ignore all of it, go on with the planned bombing and the nthe shooting, regardless of all, and none of the blame can be discounted off of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 1:03 am

I want to add that many of the most terrifying moments of 4/20 were provided by Dylan, not Eric.
He was the one who murdered poor Kyle Velasquez as he sat at his computer desk, he was the one who fired an entire clip in Lauren Townsend's body, he was the one who taunted Valeen Schnurr with the now-infamous God question, he brutally executed John Tomlin, he began shouting racial slurs at Schoels, and so on. Few sounds, to me, are more harrowing than hearing Dylan scream "EVERYBODY GET UP NOWWW!!! YOU'RE ALL MINE!!!". To this day, I feel cold sweat whenever I hear it.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 1:07 am

Mein Gott wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Mein Gott wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:

The fact that for whatever reasons neither one betrayed the other is one thing that always struck me about Columbine. At any point along the line either E or D could have gotten cold feet and backed away. Yet they both stayed in it for the long haul.

So I think it safe to say that they had some sort of extreme bond. Who knows what would have happened if they hadn't followed through with the plan and actually graduated and moved on?  They could have been lifelong friends, OR they could have drifted apart as new people came into their lives and their circumstances changed.  Just another question that we will never have an answer to.

I think that neither of them had any sort of bright future ahead, despite whatever their diversion counsellors thought. Eric was a ticking bomb, no pun intended, a Luca Brasi kind of guy who only had violence in his mind and could face situations only through the distorted, blood-tinted lens of the immense rage that burned in his head. Sooner or later, I believe sooner rather than later, he would have blown up anyway, lashing out at God-knows-who, God-knows-where.

Dylan was a major depressive, with an unacknowledged alcoholism problem and a host of psychiatric diseases of which the suicidal depression was only the top of the iceberg. I suspect he would have failed in college, as he was failing in high school, and ended up either with severe susbstance abuse or dead by suicide after a major depressive bout. And God, how would have been better had he thrown himself under a train or shot in the head before NBK...

Both would have required aggressive psychiatric therapy just to somewhat function without harming themselves or others, let alone be considered fully healthy from a mental point of view. Eric in particular would qualify for forced psychiatric treatment, to get the care he so desperately needed he should have been committed for at least some months to a mental health facility.


I do agree that without professional help both E&D would probably have had life long issues.

Eric had some major anger problems, that probably wouldn't have went away on their own and likely would have worsened over time. It's not hard to imagine Eric getting older and one day snapping under the strain.  BUT I still refuse to believe that he was a just a psychopath beyond all help.  Eric was smart, but had a host of issues, coupled with a huge amount of built up rage and aggression. Yet if he had gotten the right kind of help at the right time in his life, I feel he could have went on to lead a fairly productive life.

Dylan to me is much more complex. I have always thought Dylan was in need of help much more then Eric ever dared to be. Simply because Dylan's thought process was SO fractured and out of place. He had lost himself completely, and even stated in his journal something along the lines of him not know when this entity had taken him over. He had lost himself to the depression to the degree of being on autopilot for the most part, even forgetting or refusing to eat(he had starved himself to the point of looking anorexic)or bathe on a regular basis. Dylan to me needed intense therapy and the right combo of meds for his depression.  But even he wasn't a lost cause.

Nobody is a lost cause. Humans always have the potential of changing, of getting better.
As far as Eric was concerned, however, he was indeed a full blown psychopath. Now, to make a formal diagnosis he should have been subjected to a proper examination and observation, and of course he never was, but all the red flags are there. As Vito Corleone once said about Luca Brasi (a fictional character of the Godfather series who, in my opinion, closely resembles Eric), Eric was one of those people screwing around screaming "kill me! kill me!". He was quite literally bent on a self-destructive spiral in which he wanted to drag as many other people as possible, Dylan included.

Dylan on the other hand does look a bit more sympathetic, but only because he expressed his suffering in what to us seems a bit more passive and pathetic way than Eric. But he was as evil as his pal. The two fit each other like key and lock, fueling and empowering each other. While Eric might have been the more proactive of the two, Dylan was the one whose psychological condition surely made it easier to recognize how unthinkably wrong was what he was going to do. He chose to ignore all of it, go on with the planned bombing and the nthe shooting, regardless of all, and none of the blame can be discounted off of him.



Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so we will just have to agree to disagree on the Eric being a psychopath issue. Smile  But I'm in agreement to most everything else you said. Haha
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 1:29 am

Mein Gott wrote:
I want to add that many of the most terrifying moments of 4/20 were provided by Dylan, not Eric.
He was the one who murdered poor Kyle Velasquez as he sat at his computer desk, he was the one who fired an entire clip in Lauren Townsend's body, he was the one who taunted Valeen Schnurr with the now-infamous God question, he brutally executed John Tomlin, he began shouting racial slurs at Schoels, and so on. Few sounds, to me, are more harrowing than hearing Dylan scream "EVERYBODY GET UP NOWWW!!! YOU'RE ALL MINE!!!". To this day, I feel cold sweat whenever I hear it.
I think Eric was worse than Dylan when it came to terrifying moments. he said "PEAKABOO!" before blowing a girl's head off, he shot Kelly Fleming in the heart, he's the one who shot Isaiah Shoels in the chest, he brutally murdered Daniel Mauser. He constantly tormented people in Library by saying "quit your bitching" to an injured victim and also shouted "do you want to die?!" "that bitch is not staying alive, go get her!" "this School is fucking dead!" "you guys are going to pay now!" and the most infamous one, "everybody with white hats stand up!".

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 4:47 am

Mein Gott wrote:
As far as Eric was concerned, however, he was indeed a full blown psychopath.

I don't think he was a pure psychopath. A pure psychopath wouldn't love animals and apologize to their family for their actions. Eric was angry, homicidal, and arguably sadistic, but when he talked about how much he cares for animals (to the point where he called for the death of people who are cruel to them and talked about how humans should be killed off and animals inherit the Earth), teared up during a class presentation where he talked about all the good times he had with his previous friends before he moved to Colorado, and repeatedly said people shouldn't blame his parents for his own actions and that they were good to him, it doesn't strike me as consistent with a psychopathic personality.

(edits for grammar and spelling)

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 2:14 pm

Tommy QTR wrote:
Mein Gott wrote:
I want to add that many of the most terrifying moments of 4/20 were provided by Dylan, not Eric.
He was the one who murdered poor Kyle Velasquez as he sat at his computer desk, he was the one who fired an entire clip in Lauren Townsend's body, he was the one who taunted Valeen Schnurr with the now-infamous God question, he brutally executed John Tomlin, he began shouting racial slurs at Schoels, and so on. Few sounds, to me, are more harrowing than hearing Dylan scream "EVERYBODY GET UP NOWWW!!! YOU'RE ALL MINE!!!". To this day, I feel cold sweat whenever I hear it.


I think Eric was worse than Dylan when it came to terrifying moments. he said "PEAKABOO!" before blowing a girl's head off, he shot Kelly Fleming in the heart, he's the one who shot Isaiah Shoels in the chest, he brutally murdered Daniel Mauser. He constantly tormented people in Library by saying "quit your bitching" to an injured victim and also shouted "do you want to die?!" "that bitch is not staying alive, go get her!" "this School is fucking dead!" "you guys are going to pay now!" and the most infamous one, "everybody with white hats stand up!".


Well to be honest the library call's audio wasn't the best, and the different transcripts of that call can be questioned as well. I have quite possible damaged my own hearing to a small degree over the years trying to decipher, and pick out words and phrases on that tape.

Another bit of truth,  anytime you read along with something while trying to listen to it, also makes it SO easy to actually think you are hearing what you are reading.  If that makes sense.  I have closed my eyes so I didn't trick myself into hearing what I knew the transcripts said, AND I still have never heard certain thing that others have claimed to hear.

Also just who said what is another debatable issue. Especially if it was coming from a witness who didn't have a direct line of sight to whoever was speaking.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts about friendship   Thoughts about friendship Icon_minitimeWed Sep 19, 2018 4:07 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Tommy QTR wrote:
Mein Gott wrote:
I want to add that many of the most terrifying moments of 4/20 were provided by Dylan, not Eric.
He was the one who murdered poor Kyle Velasquez as he sat at his computer desk, he was the one who fired an entire clip in Lauren Townsend's body, he was the one who taunted Valeen Schnurr with the now-infamous God question, he brutally executed John Tomlin, he began shouting racial slurs at Schoels, and so on. Few sounds, to me, are more harrowing than hearing Dylan scream "EVERYBODY GET UP NOWWW!!! YOU'RE ALL MINE!!!". To this day, I feel cold sweat whenever I hear it.


I think Eric was worse than Dylan when it came to terrifying moments. he said "PEAKABOO!" before blowing a girl's head off, he shot Kelly Fleming in the heart, he's the one who shot Isaiah Shoels in the chest, he brutally murdered Daniel Mauser. He constantly tormented people in Library by saying "quit your bitching" to an injured victim and also shouted "do you want to die?!" "that bitch is not staying alive, go get her!" "this School is fucking dead!" "you guys are going to pay now!" and the most infamous one, "everybody with white hats stand up!".







Well to be honest the library call's audio wasn't the best, and the different transcripts of that call can be questioned as well. I have quite possible damaged my own hearing to a small degree over the years trying to decipher, and pick out words and phrases on that tape.

Another bit of truth,  anytime you read along with something while trying to listen to it, also makes it SO easy to actually think you are hearing what you are reading.  If that makes sense.  I have closed my eyes so I didn't trick myself into hearing what I knew the transcripts said, AND I still have never heard certain thing that others have claimed to hear.

Also just who said what is another debatable issue. Especially if it was coming from a witness who didn't have a direct line of sight to whoever was speaking.


Agreed. The only thing I really her is “get up” “everybody get up now” and one “woo” which I sometimes think is Dylan, not Eric . Though since Eric was into his bombs it was probably him


I don’t even really hear Dylan yelling to shut up when Val is confronting him.

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