How genuine do think E&D's friendship was?

This morning my mind had me thinking about eric & dylan's friendship. I still wonder how genuine it really was or if they just kinda used each other for each's personal gain (dylan's suicide & eric's rage).

I think this is one of the biggest reasons columbine sticks out from the rest. Not many school shootings involve more than one person and the strength and dedication of this relationship is kind of awe worthy. Each never backed out or even showed signs and each went through with it, and never turned on one another.

How genuine do you think their friendship really was?

I think it started off pretty genuine. I am not sure the timeline but I think for quite a while they were just friends. But I do think that Dylan used Eric more. We see people talking about how Eric copied Dylan quite a bit. And we know that Dylan had more friends and he knew it. While Dylan said he had several friends, Eric said he had 1.

I think that Eric did use Dylan as he was scared to be alone. He needed someone to help him get the courage to kill others, but Dylan used Eric to have a suicide partner. I think Dylan could have been ok without Eric, but I don't think Eric would have been ok without Dylan (or a friend like Dylan).


I do always wonder if either had second thoughts they never voiced. Or concerns that maybe they did bring up to the other. Would have been interesting to see their friendship up close irl

Lizpuff wrote:

I think it started off pretty genuine.  I am not sure the timeline but I think for quite a while they were just friends.  But I do think that Dylan used Eric more.  We see people talking about how Eric copied Dylan quite a bit.  And we know that Dylan had more friends and he knew it.  While Dylan said he had several friends, Eric said he had 1.

I think that Eric did use Dylan as he was scared to be alone.  He needed someone to help him get the courage to kill others, but Dylan used Eric to have a suicide partner.  I think Dylan could have been ok without Eric, but I don't think Eric would have been ok without Dylan (or a friend like Dylan).  


I do always wonder if either had second thoughts they never voiced.  Or concerns that maybe they did bring up to the other.  Would have been interesting to see their friendship up close irl

This is one of my favorite subjects.

They were friends since 8th grade I think. Eric was part of Dylan’s group but I think for a long time Zach was Dylan’s best friend and he really clumg to that.

Eric had a hard time in Colorado, leaving good friends behind in NY and Michigan. Dylan, according to most people was someone who would never let anyone down, so even end Eric would burn bridges, Dylan was there. Hence why Eric probably glommed onto him.

I think their friendship was always there but I do think they use each other as a means to an end towards the end. But that doesn’t mean there wasn’t a genuine brotherhood. There’s a small moment in HFH where they kind of genuinely smile and turn facing each other and laugh, there’s no malice in it, they genuinely look like they are having fun, then a lot of Dylan’s yearbook writings to Eric was detailing their friendship.

I do think Eric thought of Dylan as more of his best friend than Dylan did though . However I think they were clearly best friends at the end

I think Eric felt he had a genuine bond with Dylan. I feel like Eric valued Dylan, both as a friend and as a person who understood what horrible thoughts were going through his mind and didn't judge him for it. I imagine that for Eric, Dylan was one of the few people that "got it", if that makes any sense.

Dylan on the other hand, probably didn't think of Eric the same way. For a long time Dylan wanted to go on a killing spree with someone different. While I think Dylan did consider Eric one of his friends, even a best friend, I don't think Dylan prized the partnership as much as Eric did.

QuestionMark wrote:

I think Eric felt he had a genuine bond with Dylan. I feel like Eric valued Dylan, both as a friend and as a person who understood what horrible thoughts were going through his mind and didn't judge him for it. I imagine that for Eric, Dylan was one of the few people that "got it", if that makes any sense.

Dylan on the other hand, probably didn't think of Eric the same way. For a long time Dylan wanted to go on a killing spree with someone different. While I think Dylan did consider Eric one of his friends, even a best friend, I don't think Dylan prized the partnership as much as Eric did.

I agree. I think dylan was a second brother to Eric but Eric was a good friend to Dylan and the only person that could be his partner in the plan.

Same thing for me. I always saw their friendship as genuine, however I don't think they used each other. I guess they were just two boys with similar objectives in mind.

enibmuloc wrote:

Same thing for me. I always saw their friendship as genuine, however I don't think they used each other. I guess they were just two boys with similar objectives in mind.

That is a cool opinion, most people think one used the other and vise versa, I guess we'll never know. Your opinion could be totally true as well.

I just wonder how much did they know about each other's struggles. I wonder if Eric knew how deep Dylan's depression was or if Dylan knew about Eric's insecurities. I mean, sure, they agreed to go on a shooting because they were angry but did they know about the stuff they wrote in the journals? I'm guessing Eric didn't know that Dylan's idea was to go NBK with a girl and that probably he wasn't even his first choice when it came to the shooting. I wonder how he would feel about that because I feel like he was the one who took their friendship more seriously, like maybe Dylan didn't think of Eric as THAT much of a friend as he did with Zack or Nate.

icanmakeuhappy wrote:

I just wonder how much did they know about each other's struggles. I wonder if Eric knew how deep Dylan's depression was or if Dylan knew about Eric's insecurities. I mean, sure, they agreed to go on a shooting because they were angry but did they know about the stuff they wrote in the journals?

I'm willing to bet they never told the other the full picture of why they made the choice to go on a killing spree, and kept it at generic anger and hatred towards the masses for being inferior or something of that nature. It's almost tragic, because even at the end of things they likely kept secrets from each other.

QuestionMark wrote:

icanmakeuhappy wrote:

I just wonder how much did they know about each other's struggles. I wonder if Eric knew how deep Dylan's depression was or if Dylan knew about Eric's insecurities. I mean, sure, they agreed to go on a shooting because they were angry but did they know about the stuff they wrote in the journals?

I'm willing to bet they never told the other the full picture of why they made the choice to go on a killing spree, and kept it at generic anger and hatred towards the masses for being inferior or something of that nature. It's almost tragic, because even at the end of things they likely kept secrets from each other.

I've got to agree here. I highly doubt either of them spoke about their depression and insecurities. There wasn't really a reason to. As far as Dylan Eric were both concerned, the other person was going on with the massacre because of their own deep hatred/anger towards the school. They must have joked or spoke about killing themselves sometimes, but I don't think the either knew how badly the other wanted to commit suicide. They let all these things out in their journals, not in person.

I don't think Dylan ever told anyone how he was feeling. He wrote it in his journal but no one seemed to know how depressed he was even his family.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think that Eric did use Dylan as he was scared to be alone.  He needed someone to help him get the courage to kill others, but Dylan used Eric to have a suicide partner.  I think Dylan could have been ok without Eric, but I don't think Eric would have been ok without Dylan (or a friend like Dylan).  

I don't think Dylan would have committed suicide on his own. I am still adamant about that. Would Eric have committed the atrocity without Dylan? I'm not sure. I don't like hypothetical situations, but the evidence suggests Eric would not have done it alone. After all, Eric needed Dylan to cover for him because he feared that he might get jumped. I am just playing devil's advocate here. It seems that Eric and Dylan would not have done what they did without the assistance of the other.

I imagine the whole cover for getting jumped thing was mutual. Though Dylan was tall, so his likelihood of getting jumped would depend on how many people in the school were taller than him.

I think their friendship was genuine. I also think people overstate Dylan's longing to commit suicide and downplay his desire to shock and kill. Eric was also suicidal (according to his diversion documents) so I think they were kindred spirits in many ways.

Can only reiterate what's already been said. It's interesting that Dylan usually gets the "friend to the end" reputation since Eric is usually seen as the leader for various reasons (he was older, for one) when it seems more like Eric was the friend to the end and Dylan used him.

It was pointed out that on the library diagrams the bullet casings suggest only Eric did much shooting at police. The "killing cops!!" part of the yearbook always seemed one of the more contrived bits Dylan wrote. And of course, I don't think Dylan ever shot at Gardner.

I don't think Dylan secretly hated Eric or anything like that. In that sense their friendship was genuine, but it does seem Dylan's loyalty had more to do with needing someone with which to commit suicide. Then again, if not wanting to die alone was part of the motivation, and I think it was, then it's hard to imagine Dylan doing that with someone he didn't like. Though, one could read "maybe going NBK (gawd) w eric" that way.

I do get the sense that the biggest reasons for the massacre, at least in Dylan's case, were Dylan wanting to die, Dylan not wanting to die alone, Dylan not wanting to die without doing something with his life, and Dylan needing to be in a situation where he feels forced to commit suicide to go through with it. I take that to be mostly because of what Dylan said, his failure with women, and so he hated the jocks for having lives and girlfriends. Don't think it was bullying, or some hatred of jocks as such.  The guy wore a baseball cap with two sports teams on it and played fantasy baseball and regularly checked ESPN's website. He shot the most at a table with girls.  He even seemed to cope with this via the hope he would meet a girl in the afterlife. One could make the argument his loyalty was to his "halcyon' girl, and not to Eric.

Also, might just be me, but I get the sense Dylan could not figure out how to get a gun without Eric.

cakeman wrote:

Can only reiterate what's already been said. It's interesting that Dylan usually gets the "friend to the end" reputation since Eric is usually seen as the leader for various reasons (he was older, for one) when it seems more like Eric was the friend to the end and Dylan used him.

It was pointed out that on the library diagrams the bullet casings suggest only Eric did much shooting at police. The "killing cops!!" part of the yearbook always seemed one of the more contrived bits Dylan wrote. And of course, I don't think Dylan ever shot at Gardner.

I don't think Dylan secretly hated Eric or anything like that. In that sense their friendship was genuine, but it does seem Dylan's loyalty had more to do with needing someone with which to commit suicide. Then again, if not wanting to die alone was part of the motivation, and I think it was, then it's hard to imagine Dylan doing that with someone he didn't like. Though, one could read "maybe going NBK (gawd) w eric" that way.

I do get the sense that the biggest reasons for the massacre, at least in Dylan's case, were Dylan wanting to die, Dylan not wanting to die alone, Dylan not wanting to die without doing something with his life, and Dylan needing to be in a situation where he feels forced to commit suicide to go through with it. I take that to be mostly because of what Dylan said, his failure with women, and so he hated the jocks for having lives and girlfriends. Don't think it was bullying, or some hatred of jocks as such.  The guy wore a baseball cap with two sports teams on it and played fantasy baseball and regularly checked ESPN's website. He shot the most at a table with girls.  He even seemed to cope with this via the hope he would meet a girl in the afterlife. One could make the argument his loyalty was to his "halcyon' girl, and not to Eric.

Also, might just be me, but I get the sense Dylan could not figure out how to get a gun without Eric.

The viciousness towards that table always gets to me.

These are things that no one really talks about when it comes to Dylan.

I think Dylan was smart but I do believe he was a slacker, I think he got bored easily and Eric was very focused and followed through. Truth be told even if someone didn't like either of them you would much rather be paired with Eric over Dylan on a group project.

I don't remember if it was here or if it was someone who went to Columbine who talked about how there was a difference between jocks and athletes at the school? I think Lauren was an athlete but she seemed to also be artistic and genuinely sweet and outgoing. The jocks however where the guys like Rocky... so you could hate jocks but still like sports in general. I hope that doesn't sound too convoluted.

In the 11k you hear that Dylan sometimes complained about Eric, saying his "life revolved around guns, that is all he talks about" and how Eric would copy him... and you never heard Eric speak badly about Dylan. He wrote down that Dylan was his best friend. Yet, according to Robyn, Dylan set up Eric's 18th birthday and made sure he had a great day. I kind of wonder what he got for him... he wrote down Zach's birthday on his calendar, but not Eric's.

Screamingophelia wrote:

cakeman wrote:

Can only reiterate what's already been said. It's interesting that Dylan usually gets the "friend to the end" reputation since Eric is usually seen as the leader for various reasons (he was older, for one) when it seems more like Eric was the friend to the end and Dylan used him.

It was pointed out that on the library diagrams the bullet casings suggest only Eric did much shooting at police. The "killing cops!!" part of the yearbook always seemed one of the more contrived bits Dylan wrote. And of course, I don't think Dylan ever shot at Gardner.

I don't think Dylan secretly hated Eric or anything like that. In that sense their friendship was genuine, but it does seem Dylan's loyalty had more to do with needing someone with which to commit suicide. Then again, if not wanting to die alone was part of the motivation, and I think it was, then it's hard to imagine Dylan doing that with someone he didn't like. Though, one could read "maybe going NBK (gawd) w eric" that way.

I do get the sense that the biggest reasons for the massacre, at least in Dylan's case, were Dylan wanting to die, Dylan not wanting to die alone, Dylan not wanting to die without doing something with his life, and Dylan needing to be in a situation where he feels forced to commit suicide to go through with it. I take that to be mostly because of what Dylan said, his failure with women, and so he hated the jocks for having lives and girlfriends. Don't think it was bullying, or some hatred of jocks as such.  The guy wore a baseball cap with two sports teams on it and played fantasy baseball and regularly checked ESPN's website. He shot the most at a table with girls.  He even seemed to cope with this via the hope he would meet a girl in the afterlife. One could make the argument his loyalty was to his "halcyon' girl, and not to Eric.

Also, might just be me, but I get the sense Dylan could not figure out how to get a gun without Eric.

The viciousness towards that table always gets to me.

These are things that no one really talks about when it comes to Dylan.

I think Dylan was smart but I do believe he was a slacker, I think he got bored easily and Eric was very focused and followed through. Truth be told even if someone didn't like either of them you would much rather be paired with Eric over Dylan on a group project.

I don't remember if it was here or if it was someone who went to Columbine who talked about how there was a difference between jocks and athletes at the school?  I think Lauren was an athlete but she seemed to also be artistic and genuinely sweet and outgoing. The jocks however where the guys like Rocky... so you could hate jocks but still like sports in general. I hope that doesn't sound too convoluted.

In  the 11k you hear that Dylan sometimes complained about Eric, saying his "life revolved around guns, that is all he talks about" and how Eric would copy him... and you never heard Eric speak badly about Dylan. He wrote down that Dylan was his best friend. Yet, according to Robyn, Dylan set up Eric's 18th birthday and made sure he had a great day.  I kind of wonder what he got for him... he wrote down Zach's birthday on his calendar, but not Eric's.

A lot there. Worry I'm going to drift off topic, but nonetheless:

Of course I wasn't there, but I don't think any of the girls would be called jocks. Women don't need a jockstrap, and quite specifically he said the issue was jocks having girlfriends, and I don't think he meant lesbians. Jocks mean popular, male athletes. Cheerleaders are probably the girl's equivalent. And while it's not impossible, especially not with other girls, I don't think girls were bullying them.

"so you could hate jocks but still like sports in general" Possibly, but I don't think you can hate jocks in general but still like sports in general, because that's who does the sports. I think you can resent jocks for being successful and having girlfriends and still like talking about baseball statistics.

Even if Lauren was a jock, surely the other girls were not jocks. Yet they weren't targeted any less. I don't think that makes sense given the usual narrative about bullying and the cult of the athlete.  I think it makes sense if you take Dylan at his word and it was more of an Elliott Rodger-style rampage for him. That would also explain the viciousness at that table you wonder about.

I'm also not incredibly confident, but I think the jocks white hats was seen as a target like the green hair of Doom zombies. I think they wanted people to stand up because that makes it more fun, like a first person shooter.

"life revolved around guns, that is all he talks about" Must have missed that, but it goes to what I said about using him to get a gun. As Sue said, she wouldn't even think about a gun in her house, yet Eric's dad obviously had guns, hence the "clips are in" incident.

I get the same sense you do about Dylan being a slacker though intelligent, and Eric being proactive. Dylan seemed smart enough to get calculus, yet didn't care. I was also surprised that he dropped out of philosophy, given his writings. He would like Heraclitus.

It also goes to what seems to slowly becoming the popular view of the massacre among researchers, that Dylan came up with the massacre, and Eric got enthralled with the idea. One wonders how much the initial plan changed though, and who was responsible for the changes. I could see blowing up the cafeteria as the plan from the beginning, say, but I could also see it as something only added later by either one of them.

Screamingophelia wrote:

In  the 11k you hear that Dylan sometimes complained about Eric, saying his "life revolved around guns, that is all he talks about" and how Eric would copy him... and you never heard Eric speak badly about Dylan. He wrote down that Dylan was his best friend. Yet, according to Robyn, Dylan set up Eric's 18th birthday and made sure he had a great day.  I kind of wonder what he got for him... he wrote down Zach's birthday on his calendar, but not Eric's.

I often find myself wondering if Dylan and Eric ever got into fights. I think you pointed out that Dylan once told Zach or Chris (?) that Eric bought a gun and told them not to tell them that he said anything about it. It seems that Dylan was capable of living a life apart from violence and homicidal ideations, but not Eric. I believe, although I could be wrong, that Dylan was the most outwardly normal of the two. Once again, I can only speculate about the dynamics between the two.

jada887 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

In  the 11k you hear that Dylan sometimes complained about Eric, saying his "life revolved around guns, that is all he talks about" and how Eric would copy him... and you never heard Eric speak badly about Dylan. He wrote down that Dylan was his best friend. Yet, according to Robyn, Dylan set up Eric's 18th birthday and made sure he had a great day.  I kind of wonder what he got for him... he wrote down Zach's birthday on his calendar, but not Eric's.

I often find myself wondering if Dylan and Eric ever got into fights. I think you pointed out that Dylan once told Zach or Chris (?) that Eric bought a gun and told them not to tell them that he said anything about it. It seems that Dylan was capable of living a life apart from violence and homicidal ideations, but not Eric. I believe, although I could be wrong, that Dylan was the most outwardly normal of the two. Once again, I can only speculate about the dynamics between the two.  

Yea, Sue at the symposium I saw her speak at said it was Nate who Dylan told and asked for him not to mention it to Eric.

I think there is a thread here and it’s a q and a from Eric and Dylan’s old boss Jason and he mentioned they fought once and didn’t speak for a week