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 Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?

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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSat Dec 19, 2015 10:43 pm

I've heard it repeated a few times that they'd had negative interactions in the past, but I've never seen it sourced.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2015 12:30 pm

That's news to me....

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PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2015 2:58 pm

Some more information related to Isaiah Shoels:

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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSun Dec 20, 2015 8:32 pm

I also read this somewhere..with everything Columbine related that I've read/looked into, I can't recall where atm.

I think it was during the aftermath, where Isaiah's family were accusing everyone of "conspiracy" type stuff relating to NBK. I highly doubt it's true either way.

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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2015 10:28 am

Yeah, the family did have some odd theories and thoughts about the shooting. I can't imagine their grief, but they did some stuff post shooting that was a little off character.

IDK about the beef between Isaiah and Eric and/or Dylan. There were stories, but I think another person here on the boards noted that there was no real evidence to it.

Personally, I could see them having a beef with Isaiah. They both hated jocks, and Isaiah's shorter stature would have made him an easier target for insults. That, and Dylan oddly was rather racist and prejudiced toward minorities. That's just speculation on my part though.
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PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2015 12:55 pm

I have not read that I can recall that they had any altercations with him, not to say it couldn't happen but I have not seen any thing indicating it.
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PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2015 1:18 pm

That goes for a lot of the stuff that went on at CHS. Most of the eyewitness stuff gets garbled by multiple witnesses. Sometimes, it turns out that everyone is referencing the same nonexistent source. I ran into the same issue when I was trying to track down a timeline for the "Ketchup Incident" that happened in the commons. Some say it was two separate incidents, and some say neither of them happened.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeMon Dec 21, 2015 4:36 pm

radaddio wrote:
Yeah, the family did have some odd theories and thoughts about the shooting. I can't imagine their grief, but they did some stuff post shooting that was a little off character.

IDK about the beef between Isaiah and Eric and/or Dylan. There were stories, but I think another person here on the boards noted that there was no real evidence to it.

Personally, I could see them having a beef with Isaiah. They both hated jocks, and Isaiah's shorter stature would have made him an easier target for insults. That, and Dylan oddly was rather racist and prejudiced toward minorities. That's just speculation on my part though.

I suppose it would make sense that if E&D had personal animosity towards any of their victims it would have been Isaiah, since IIRC he and Lauren were the only two victims in the same grade as Eric and Dylan.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSat Dec 09, 2017 9:39 pm

I could be wrong but wasn't Isaiah a football player? So if he was, who's to say he was giving Eric hell and that's why Eric and Dylan disliked him and he was killed? I do not think Eric and Dylan disliked him and he was killed because of race, no because Eric had black friends in NY and well Dylan.....*shrugs* but I don't think Isaiah was killed because he was black.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSat Dec 09, 2017 10:12 pm

42099_4EVA wrote:
I could be wrong but wasn't Isaiah a football player? So if he was, who's to say he was giving Eric hell and that's why Eric and Dylan disliked him and he was killed? I do not think Eric and Dylan disliked him and he was killed because of race, no because Eric had black friends in NY and well Dylan.....*shrugs* but I don't think Isaiah was killed because he was black.
I don't think he was killed because of race but most likely he said something snide to Eric and or Dylan one time - forgot about it and they remembered.

I do suspect Steven Curnow was killed because he reminded Eric of himself - like he wrote in his diary.

Might be the freshman he referred to wanting to "tear apart like a wolf" too but I doubt it.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSat Dec 09, 2017 10:17 pm

Ivan wrote:
42099_4EVA wrote:
I could be wrong but wasn't Isaiah a football player? So if he was, who's to say he was giving Eric hell and that's why Eric and Dylan disliked him and he was killed? I do not think Eric and Dylan disliked him and he was killed because of race, no because Eric had black friends in NY and well Dylan.....*shrugs* but I don't think Isaiah was killed because he was black.
I don't think he was killed because of race but most likely he said something snide to Eric and or Dylan one time - forgot about it and they remembered.

I do suspect Steven Curnow was killed because he reminded Eric of himself - like he wrote in his diary.

Might be the freshman he referred to wanting to "tear apart like a wolf" too but I doubt it.

Exactly, you and I are on the same wavelengths with this.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSun Dec 10, 2017 12:53 am

The table with Lauren, Val, Lisa and Kelly seemed to be a focal point or brutality (Kelly was at the same table I believe?) and the way they treated Isaiah was particularly brutal. I think they wanted to hurt and humiliate people as much as they felt hurt, of course they did it in the worse way, but if you take away the shooting for a moment, there are people who go below the belt to hurt people.

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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSun Dec 10, 2017 4:14 am

I do remember Isiah's piano teacher knowing too much and then getting killed for it.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSun Dec 10, 2017 10:21 am

spidEr wrote:
I do remember Isiah's piano teacher knowing too much and then getting killed for it.

Whoa! Rewind - What?? Oh please tell more, what happened to Isaiah's piano teacher, with her knowing too much and getting killed for it?
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeSun Dec 10, 2017 11:25 pm

I want to know too i cant seem to find any info.


Last edited by Giga143 on Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 3:30 am

42099_4EVA wrote:
Whoa! Rewind - What?? Oh please tell more, what happened to Isaiah's piano teacher, with her knowing too much and getting killed for it?
Giga143 wrote:
I want to know too i cant seem to finad any info.
A Columbine conspiracy nut named William Zabel used to talk on conspiracy radio shows about his research (the audio clips of these shows are floating around the internet if you want to find them), and often he would bring up a list he made of suspicious deaths. One of the dead on his list was Isaiah Shoels music teacher (I forgot his name, Anton Johnson?) who supposedly knew too much and was killed for it.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeWed Dec 20, 2017 5:45 pm

Here's an old article I found from the NYT. According to his father he was targeted, it's from right after the massacre and we know a lot more now, but I do wonder if there is some validity to the conflict angle, not the targeting angle?

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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeThu Dec 21, 2017 1:16 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Here's an old article I found from the NYT. According to his father he was targeted, it's from right after the massacre and we know a lot more now, but I do wonder if there is some validity to the conflict angle, not the targeting angle?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/04/22/us/terror-in-littleton-the-dead-father-of-victim-says-son-had-dispute-with-suspect.html


Has anyone came across any real proof that either Eric or Dylan had EVER had any sort of conflict, altercation, passing words, etc. with Isaiah? scratch
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeThu Dec 21, 2017 1:26 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Here's an old article I found from the NYT. According to his father he was targeted, it's from right after the massacre and we know a lot more now, but I do wonder if there is some validity to the conflict angle, not the targeting angle?

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Has anyone came across any real proof that either Eric or Dylan had EVER had any sort of conflict, altercation, passing words, etc. with Isaiah?  scratch  

Not from what I've seen.

Also if they had an issue with him, he'd be on the hit lists I'm sure.

They wanted to me mean and hateful so they did what they did. It was cruel but attacking Isaiah wasn't premeditated
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeThu Dec 21, 2017 1:37 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Here's an old article I found from the NYT. According to his father he was targeted, it's from right after the massacre and we know a lot more now, but I do wonder if there is some validity to the conflict angle, not the targeting angle?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/04/22/us/terror-in-littleton-the-dead-father-of-victim-says-son-had-dispute-with-suspect.html


Has anyone came across any real proof that either Eric or Dylan had EVER had any sort of conflict, altercation, passing words, etc. with Isaiah?  scratch  

Not from what I've seen.

Also if they had an issue with him, he'd be on the hit lists I'm sure.

They wanted to me mean and hateful so they did what they did. It was cruel but attacking Isaiah wasn't premeditated

I have never believed E&D deliberately targeted him either. Now if the library had been full of black people and E&D ONLY targeted them, THEN I would believe they were indeed racist.

But they were going for anyone, didn't matter if you were male or female, black, white, or pink with green polka dots. If you were in the library that day then you had just as much chance of getting shot as anyone else.
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PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeThu Dec 21, 2017 2:44 pm

I agree that they didn't target anyone for their race, gender, etc. they said cruel things to hurt them and they killed whoever they arbitrarily decided to kill. They just wanted to play god.
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PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeThu Dec 21, 2017 2:48 pm

Littlelo wrote:
I agree that they didn't target anyone for their race, gender, etc. they said cruel things to hurt them and they killed whoever they arbitrarily decided to kill. They just wanted to play god.

Agreed.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeThu Dec 21, 2017 6:22 pm

It is true that people were insulted with anything they could come up with on the spot, but Isaiah being black did stand out enough to draw Dylan's attention to him, but he may have still been shot even if he had been white, just with a less of a commotion and a different insult.. or he may have just not been shot at all like some of the kids that were spared. We will never know.

Evan Todd, who was someone on Dylan's radar as a bully and was confronted ended up surviving. I don't think Isaiah was picked out and killed for being black, his skin color being different was just something that caught Dylan's eye, and probably just ridiculed him at all the times he had been treated with disrespect for being different himself, but wasn't actually going to shoot him just insult him. I think it was Eric that walked over and killed him though, after Dylan had drawn attention to him.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeThu Dec 21, 2017 6:32 pm

spidEr wrote:
It is true that people were insulted with anything they could come up with on the spot, but Isaiah being black did stand out enough to draw Dylan's attention to him, but he may have still been shot even if he had been white, just with a less of a commotion and a different insult.. or he may have just not been shot at all like some of the kids that were spared. We will never know.

Evan Todd, who was someone on Dylan's radar as a bully and was confronted ended up surviving. I don't think Isaiah was picked out and killed for being black, his skin color being different was just something that caught Dylan's eye, and probably just ridiculed him at all the times he had been treated with disrespect for being different himself, but wasn't actually going to shoot him just insult him. I think it was Eric that walked over and killed him though, after Dylan had drawn attention to him.

I think it was Eric. I am not 100% sure of who killed who except for Dave Sanders I know was killed by Eric and Dylan killed Kyle Velasquez.

I believe it happened around where Yumeko was and she talks about it in her story on youtube. She is the one that mentions the "dick" comment that people seemed to ask her about a lot.
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Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan?   Isaiah Shoels had previous problems with Eric and Dylan? Icon_minitimeThu Dec 21, 2017 6:35 pm

I agree with what you said [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]...Isaiah may not have been killed for being black. But it's possible the color of his skin is what stood out to them and made him a more likely target.
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