Dylan's suicide

When the police entered the library and discovered the bodies, Dylan's body was in much greater condition the Eric's. Like he died much later than Eric, maybe hours. When Patric Ireland woke up after the shot to the head at around 2pm he said he heard coughing. I think that Dylan's suicide shot woke him up, and that the coughing was Dylan choking on his own blood (blood was found in his lungs).

When do you think Dylan took the shot?

Some time around 12:08.

P. Ireland was losing consciousness a few times. He must have woken up right after they shot themselves at about 12:08 and had heard Dylan's coughing which lasted for no more than 5 min.

It's likely Dylan killed himself only moments after Eric committed suicide. He may not have died right away, I think it would be hard to say when he actually expired.

ThoughtBox wrote:

It's likely Dylan killed himself only moments after Eric committed suicide. He may not have died right away, I think it would be hard to say when he actually expired.

I disagree. I think he pulled the trigger HOURS after Eric, why i don't know; maybe he was nervous or it was more personal to him because he wanted to do it for so long... But who knows when and why he shot himself like he did, it's all speculation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ummmmm hours? No.

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ummmmm hours? No.

Like I said, I don't know. No one will ever know for sure, I'm just going off the fact that his body was much fresher when they found him.

PotatoSallad wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ummmmm hours? No.

Like I said, I don't know. No one will ever know for sure, I'm just going off the fact that his body was much fresher when they found him.

It could also be the fact he didn't blow the top of his head off.

We do know it wasn't hours later...

PotatoSallad wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ummmmm hours? No.

Like I said, I don't know. No one will ever know for sure, I'm just going off the fact that his body was much fresher when they found him.

How on Earth do you know that Dylan's dead body was 'fresher' than Eric's? Saying this thread isn't some kind of sick joke, have you even read their autopsy reports? Both Dylan and Eric were in early decomposition at the time of their autopsies. In the suicide photos, Dylan and Eric both had huge pools of blood around them that had been soaking into the carpet for quite some time. Dylan had dried blood along his chin and forehead. Their bodies were found sometime after 3PM and at that point a cop, the coroner or whoever rolled Dylan onto his back and by then, the blood was already dried onto his face. So, he had been dead for awhile.

And with Eric, well he was missing the whole top of his head. So there's that too.

Jenn wrote:

PotatoSallad wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ummmmm hours? No.

Like I said, I don't know. No one will ever know for sure, I'm just going off the fact that his body was much fresher when they found him.

How on Earth do you know that Dylan's dead body was 'fresher' than Eric's? Saying this thread isn't some kind of sick joke, have you even read their autopsy reports? Both Dylan and Eric were in early decomposition at the time of their autopsies. In the suicide photos, Dylan and Eric both had huge pools of blood around them that had been soaking into the carpet for quite some time. Dylan had dried blood along his chin and forehead. Their bodies were found sometime after 3PM and at that point a cop, the coroner or whoever rolled Dylan onto his back and by then, the blood was already dried onto his face. So, he had been dead for awhile.

And with Eric, well he was missing the whole top of his head. So there's that too.

I guess you're right. Thanks for the correction, and sorry for my poor choice of words.

Ivan wrote:

PotatoSallad wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ummmmm hours? No.

Like I said, I don't know. No one will ever know for sure, I'm just going off the fact that his body was much fresher when they found him.

It could also be the fact he didn't blow the top of his head off.

You're right. Never thought of that as a factor, I always just focused on the time of death...

Jenn wrote:

PotatoSallad wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ummmmm hours? No.

Like I said, I don't know. No one will ever know for sure, I'm just going off the fact that his body was much fresher when they found him.

How on Earth do you know that Dylan's dead body was 'fresher' than Eric's? Saying this thread isn't some kind of sick joke, have you even read their autopsy reports? Both Dylan and Eric were in early decomposition at the time of their autopsies. In the suicide photos, Dylan and Eric both had huge pools of blood around them that had been soaking into the carpet for quite some time. Dylan had dried blood along his chin and forehead. Their bodies were found sometime after 3PM and at that point a cop, the coroner or whoever rolled Dylan onto his back and by then, the blood was already dried onto his face. So, he had been dead for awhile.

And with Eric, well he was missing the whole top of his head. So there's that too.

As someone who works alongside coroners doing autopsies, there are certain scientific anomalies that occur after death. The most famous I would speculate is rigor mortis and livor mortis. From their autopsy reports, it appears their deaths were very close together.

Having participated in autopsies where the manner of death was similar to Eric Harris's, it is truly and utterly horrific.

Jenn wrote:

PotatoSallad wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ummmmm hours? No.

Like I said, I don't know. No one will ever know for sure, I'm just going off the fact that his body was much fresher when they found him.

How on Earth do you know that Dylan's dead body was 'fresher' than Eric's? Saying this thread isn't some kind of sick joke, have you even read their autopsy reports? Both Dylan and Eric were in early decomposition at the time of their autopsies. In the suicide photos, Dylan and Eric both had huge pools of blood around them that had been soaking into the carpet for quite some time. Dylan had dried blood along his chin and forehead. Their bodies were found sometime after 3PM and at that point a cop, the coroner or whoever rolled Dylan onto his back and by then, the blood was already dried onto his face. So, he had been dead for awhile.

And with Eric, well he was missing the whole top of his head. So there's that too.

I have to agree with Jenn. Dylan having the top of his cranium doesn't make his corpse "fresher". Lets not forget that NBK basically boiled down to theatrical suicide for Dylan. To be honest it actually surprises me that Eric killed himself first. I think one of the most common theories is that Dylan made his suicide into a ritual. Eric sat down, kissed Arlene one last time, and pulled the trigger. Dylan however took the time to remove his jewelry and light a Molotov before his suicide. His best friend was dead and the school was surrounded by cops. I can't imagine why Dylan would wait around for hours when dying was always his [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] goal.

^Yeah, what you said. I think it's certainly most likely that Dylan killed himself basically straight after Eric did.

Does anyone have any idea why Dylan removed his jewelry before he shot himself?

I believe he removed it so it could be given back to his family and not have any blood on it.He probably figured they would like to have those things and having them returned with blood on it would be very distressing for them.

bubbles wrote:

^Yeah, what you said. I think it's certainly most likely that Dylan killed himself basically straight after Eric did.

Does anyone have any idea why Dylan removed his jewelry before he shot himself?

Could someone give me the reference for that?

asloversgo wrote:

bubbles wrote:

^Yeah, what you said. I think it's certainly most likely that Dylan killed himself basically straight after Eric did.

Does anyone have any idea why Dylan removed his jewelry before he shot himself?

Could someone give me the reference for that?

Here is a link to page 4 of Dylan's autopsy, which states 'Also present in close proximity to the body, in the body bag, were the following personal effects: a pierced earring, a silver-colored pocket watch, and a beaded cloth necklace.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The only jewelry he actually still had on his body was his black ring. The rest of these things he had taken off prior to death.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I believe he removed it so it could be given back to his family and not have any blood on it.He probably figured they would like to have those things and having them returned with blood on it would be very distressing for them.

I haven't really got a better explanation than this, but if it's true he was taking the piss a bit wasn't he? Leaving a trail of dead bodies, vile tapes and his own bloody corpse and he didn't want to distress his family?

Draw_It_White wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I believe he removed it so it could be given back to his family and not have any blood on it.He probably figured they would like to have those things and having them returned with blood on it would be very distressing for them.

I haven't really got a better explanation than this, but if it's true he was taking the piss a bit wasn't he? Leaving a trail of dead bodies, vile tapes and his own bloody corpse and he didn't want to distress his family?

It's just my best guess as to why he did it.If anyone else has any thoughts as to why he took this action, I'm open to hearing them.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Draw_It_White wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I believe he removed it so it could be given back to his family and not have any blood on it.He probably figured they would like to have those things and having them returned with blood on it would be very distressing for them.

I haven't really got a better explanation than this, but if it's true he was taking the piss a bit wasn't he? Leaving a trail of dead bodies, vile tapes and his own bloody corpse and he didn't want to distress his family?

It's just my best guess as to why he did it.If anyone else has any thoughts as to why he took this action, I'm open to hearing them.

Nope, as I say I don't personally have a better suggestion. I just find it crazy that he suddenly got a conscience after doing all that.

The only other thing I can think of is he just needed something to do in his final moments while found the courage to pull the trigger and this was the first thing that came to mind. I myself sometimes find myself twisting a ring round my finger when I'm a bit nervous so maybe he did the same thing and this lead to him removing it and then thought he'd just take off most of his other things as a result.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Draw_It_White wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I believe he removed it so it could be given back to his family and not have any blood on it.He probably figured they would like to have those things and having them returned with blood on it would be very distressing for them.

I haven't really got a better explanation than this, but if it's true he was taking the piss a bit wasn't he? Leaving a trail of dead bodies, vile tapes and his own bloody corpse and he didn't want to distress his family?

It's just my best guess as to why he did it.If anyone else has any thoughts as to why he took this action, I'm open to hearing them.

I honestly never thought about the family aspect of this which is interesting and very possible in my opinion. However, when I think about the general aspect of taking off your jewelry, I think of my habit (which I believe many people have) whenever I try to get comfortable - taking off my watch and rings is the first thing I do (when I get home, I'm at some familiar place where I need to get something done, etc.) Maybe he was trying to make himself comfortable before he takes his last breath? I don't know what other reason he might have had.

He also took his suspenders off, it wasn't just the jewelry. Maybe he was just buying time to make sure Eric did it first. I've always kind of felt that Dylan waited to make sure Eric actually killed himself before he pulled the trigger.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "He also took his suspenders off, it wasn't just the jewelry. Maybe he was just buying time to make sure Eric did it first. I've always kind of felt that Dylan waited to make sure Eric actually killed himself before he pulled the trigger." good thought, and if that were to be so, the ordeal just got a little more sinister - I mean like in a way Dyl creeps me out even more.

I won't post the picture...but in the suicide photo Dylan appears to be wearing a watch or maybe a bracelet of some kind?...I didn't see anything mentioned about it...could this be something else he didn't take off?

These are all worthwhile theories that everyone has come up with.E &D might have had thoughts going through their heads about their own deaths in those last moments that we couldn't even guess at .

PaintItBlack wrote:

Draw_It_White wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I believe he removed it so it could be given back to his family and not have any blood on it.He probably figured they would like to have those things and having them returned with blood on it would be very distressing for them.

I haven't really got a better explanation than this, but if it's true he was taking the piss a bit wasn't he? Leaving a trail of dead bodies, vile tapes and his own bloody corpse and he didn't want to distress his family?

It's just my best guess as to why he did it.If anyone else has any thoughts as to why he took this action, I'm open to hearing them.

Had a college buddy commit suicide. He went to great measure to make sure everything was easy to deal with in his regard & seemed really focused on lessening the burden (both family & others).. paid all his bills current, wrote "exit letters" etc.. I never knew the details, but others have told me the hotel staff said his actions over those two days weren't anything you'd expect from a suicide victim. He was certainly the Dylan type if you see a few parallels.

Each has their own agenda, I'm leaning towards family/personal items should go to them & making that easier to accomplish.

Lizpuff wrote:

I won't post the picture...but in the suicide photo Dylan appears to be wearing a watch or maybe a bracelet of some kind?...I didn't see anything mentioned about it...could this be something else he didn't take off?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It's some sort of tape, such as duct tape. Dylan and Eric both had match strikers taped to their forearms. It's said that they did this so that they could easily light their pipe bombs. The match strikers were apart of the 2004 evidence exhibit that they had. You can see them in this photo.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It's some sort of tape, such as duct tape. Dylan and Eric both had match strikers taped to their forearms. It's said that they did this so that they could easily light their pipe bombs. The match strikers were apart of the 2004 evidence exhibit that they had. You can see them in this photo.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Oh my goodness I had no idea about that. thanks for this. they had match strikers taped on them? such detailed preparation those two!

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It's some sort of tape, such as duct tape. Dylan and Eric both had match strikers taped to their forearms. It's said that they did this so that they could easily light their pipe bombs. The match strikers were apart of the 2004 evidence exhibit that they had. You can see them in this photo.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Oh my goodness I had no idea about that. thanks for this. they had match strikers taped on them? such detailed preparation those two!

No problem. Yea, I think that might be something that not a lot of people are aware of. Along with the bombs, the suicide photos were another thing I used to sit there and look at over and over again. I enlarged them so I could see every little detail of them. I had this friend on the old forum and I used to harass them all the time asking 'what's this' and 'what's that' with the suicide pictures. And of course I saw the tape on Dylan's wrist and that's how I came across the info and picture of the match strikers.

I guess they just had a pocket full of matches and used the strikers on their arms so that they could light their pipe bombs as quickly as possible. Like you said, I guess they wanted to be as prepared as possible.

Jenn wrote:

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It's some sort of tape, such as duct tape. Dylan and Eric both had match strikers taped to their forearms. It's said that they did this so that they could easily light their pipe bombs. The match strikers were apart of the 2004 evidence exhibit that they had. You can see them in this photo.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Oh my goodness I had no idea about that. thanks for this. they had match strikers taped on them? such detailed preparation those two!

No problem. Yea, I think that might be something that not a lot of people are aware of. Along with the bombs, the suicide photos were another thing I used to sit there and look at over and over again. I enlarged them so I could see every little detail of them. I had this friend on the old forum and I used to harass them all the time asking 'what's this' and 'what's that' with the suicide pictures. And of course I saw the tape on Dylan's wrist and that's how I came across the info and picture of the match strikers.

I guess they just had a pocket full of matches and used the strikers on their arms so that they could light their pipe bombs as quickly as possible. Like you said, I guess they wanted to be as prepared as possible.

Thanks for the info!

In the picture it looks to me like Dylan's hat is right under Eric's leg. Am I misreading this?

Also, what is the white disk near Dylan's leg in the photo that shows the hat?

I dont think that Dylan's hat is under Eric's leg.. It seems like Dylan's blood is all over Eric's leg.

Kida wrote:

I dont think that Dylan's hat is under Eric's leg.. It seems like Dylan's blood is all over Eric's leg.

I think it is his hat. When Dylan fell he fell face first onto Eric's leg. Then when they were looking for explosives they rolled him off and onto his back. I think at that point his hat fell off and remained where his head used to be.

Lizpuff wrote:

Kida wrote:

I dont think that Dylan's hat is under Eric's leg.. It seems like Dylan's blood is all over Eric's leg.

I think it is his hat.  When Dylan fell he fell face first onto Eric's leg.  Then when they were looking for explosives they rolled him off and onto his back.  I think at that point his hat fell off and remained where his head used to be.

I didnt know that. So they moved Eric's body too?

Kida wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Kida wrote:

I dont think that Dylan's hat is under Eric's leg.. It seems like Dylan's blood is all over Eric's leg.

I think it is his hat.  When Dylan fell he fell face first onto Eric's leg.  Then when they were looking for explosives they rolled him off and onto his back.  I think at that point his hat fell off and remained where his head used to be.

I didnt know that.  So they moved Eric's body too?

Yes. They found explosives in both bodies' pant pockets. The position you see both in in the suicide photos is not how they were initially found. Eric is probably closest but Dylan was originally somewhat face down. They had to roll him to see his other pockets.

Lizpuff wrote:

Kida wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Kida wrote:

I dont think that Dylan's hat is under Eric's leg.. It seems like Dylan's blood is all over Eric's leg.

I think it is his hat.  When Dylan fell he fell face first onto Eric's leg.  Then when they were looking for explosives they rolled him off and onto his back.  I think at that point his hat fell off and remained where his head used to be.

I didnt know that.  So they moved Eric's body too?

Yes.  They found explosives in both bodies' pant pockets.  The position you see both in in the suicide photos is not how they were initially found.  Eric is probably closest but Dylan was originally somewhat face down.  They had to roll him to see his other pockets.  

Thanks for the info