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 Dylans symbols

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PostSubject: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 12:01 pm

I searched the forum and could not find a topic about this which I find very weird because it is very noticeable that Dylan used alot of symbols to express himself.

I thought we could discuss what they meant to him and also what combinations of them are trying to express.

The smybols I have noticed the most are:

Double-barred cross
Triple-barred cross
Ankh
Box
Swirl
Five
Road
Circle
Barbed Wheel
Infinitysymbol

All of theese symbols become very interesting when you find combinations of them. I already have theories about what they could possibly mean but I'd love to get new perspectives. I will post the three combinations of symbols that I find the most interesting:

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The double barred cross seems to be his favorite, I even believe that that is what he tried to/wanted to cut in his arm.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 12:14 pm

This was his symbol for fate:
(Minus the squiggle line above it)

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 12:20 pm

Littlelo wrote:
This was his symbol for fate:
(Minus the squiggle line above it)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

yes, do you think that is the symbol he is using on the first picture i posted?

And what does the combination of triple barred cross + fate symbol + swirl mean?

When I first read the journal I thought that the triple barred cross was a symbol for the hallways and rooms that he talked about when describing life and death.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 12:55 pm

Not sure about that, but it definitely could be a larger version of the fate symbol.

Honestly Dylan's symbols and cryptic phrases in his journals is one area of Columbine that I am not very familiar with. I'm interested to see what others have to say, this is a good idea for a thread.

Eta: I was told by another user recently that 5 stands for the 5th dimension
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 1:07 pm

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his hearts are also that of Pumpkins band.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 1:10 pm

It is, he talks about the 5th dimension in his writings. He's an Einstein in an ants body according to him ... I wonder if therapy and drugs would have dappened his thoughts and thats why he was against it. Too bad he took the oath he did.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 1:10 pm

Then he added the cross to them, which is interesting

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 1:26 pm

Never knew about the smashing pumpkins !
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 3:13 pm

Ok, So I found that the swirl is a symbol for the downward spiral

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 3:15 pm

The road he always draws is the lost highway.

I think the infinity symbol is just his view of eternity after he leaves his "human" form?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 3:43 pm

I like this topic [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think Dylan expressed a lot of what he was thinking and feeling in his drawings and symbols, even if we can't know exactly what they meant.

I think he might have used the Ankh to represent it's traditional meaning of Life. There is a picture that shows what looks like an ankh, then a slash followed by what looks like a sickle, which would be a recognizable symbol of Death. Putting these two symbols together suggests that it could mean "Life/Death."

I think the swirl is probably a Downward Spiral aka, his depression or descent into unhappiness.

I think he had other symbols that represented the forces of fate but I think the road suggests Dylan's Fate, in particular. When you are looking at a road that travels into the distance, perspective changes it from a wide path into a single point. The place where it converges into a single point could represent his fate, the final destination for Dylan, whatever he was meant to be or to do. I don't know if he felt trapped by this fate or whether he was excited to know that there was something that was meant to be, even if it wasn't positive.

I think the double-barred cross is meant to be a representation of the duality of reality, the scale of Good and Evil and I think the triple-barred cross is meant to be a representation of Dylan's Spirit or Dylan As A God. The extra line in the middle would represent that Dylan's spirit or soul is neither good nor bad. He rests in the middle of the battle between good and evil because he knows that he is capable of doing and believing in both and he is on the border between the two sides. From his position, he can see and do anything and everything because he is not limited by humanity like everyone else.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Here are some more of the same, with a little writing that could provide some context.

I think the downward spiral was also a NIN album that he felt he related to.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 4:31 pm

I am totally with you guys on the interpretation of the triple barred cross as being him, not evil and not good.

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^I interpret these symbols together as him basically saying that the downward spiral pushed his fate onto him.

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^ As for this picuture, the symbols on the left I interpret as him saying that the infinite lack of awareness (z as for asleep or zombies) created the downward spiral.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 4:36 pm

It's really sad to me that in that picture you posted he just writes "I'm sorry", "sorry" over and over Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 4:43 pm

yes, I know :/ and what does all the crossed split hearts mean? Could the split hearts also represent some sort of good vs evil and him crossing them meaning he cant live with two sides of him like that anymore?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 4:45 pm

I think any time he felt rejected by a girl he blamed himself. Maybe he was cancelling them out saying sorry for fucking things up and that it was over.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 4:54 pm

I think you're onto something with the infinity sign and the Z's. Here is another drawing where he combines them. Thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 5:08 pm

Infinity of zombies leading to the lost highway leading to himself in a heart under a starry night with the downward spirals still back on earth.

Well... his view of the afterlife seems to involve stars or space which i think is odd because when he described "the halycons" he described alot of nature and earthly things.

Maybe his mind changed on that one but I believe this is supposed to symbolize that him being separated from earth and following his destined path (the lost highway) will lead to him finally becoming his final form where he can be his neutral self and not feel split in two.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 5:26 pm

Littlelo wrote:
I think any time he felt rejected by a girl he blamed himself. Maybe he was cancelling them out saying sorry for fucking things up and that it was over.

Or perhaps he was saying sorry for the massacre? IDK.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeMon Dec 11, 2017 5:33 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
I think any time he felt rejected by a girl he blamed himself. Maybe he was cancelling them out saying sorry for fucking things up and that it was over.

Or perhaps he was saying sorry for the massacre? IDK.

A definite possibility. I know some people say that he wished he could have gone NBK with a girl in the beginning. Maybe he was saying sorry they couldn't do it together.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 3:59 pm

ssmc wrote:
I think the double-barred cross is meant to be a representation of the duality of reality, the scale of Good and Evil and I think the triple-barred cross is meant to be a representation of Dylan's Spirit or Dylan As A God. The extra line in the middle would represent that Dylan's spirit or soul is neither good nor bad. He rests in the middle of the battle between good and evil because he knows that he is capable of doing and believing in both and he is on the border between the two sides. From his position, he can see and do anything and everything because he is not limited by humanity like everyone else.

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Dylan Klebold wrote:
I was Mr. Cutter tonight - I have 11 depressioners on my right hand now, & my fav. contrasting symbol, because it is so true & means so much. The battle between good & bad never ends…

He points to the double barreled cross when he talks about his favorite "contrasting symbol"; the battle between good and bad, so definitely what you were thinking.

on another note, cutting the symbol into his arm really gets me thinking about how tortured he was and how much that tore him apart, good and bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 4:08 pm

He's always talked about duality. The lines in the middle of the heart look like a scar, like it's trying to be patched up

This passage has always got to me:

a lot on the past though... ive always had a thing for the past - how it reacts to the present & the future - or rather vice versa. I wonder how/when i got so fucked up... my mind, existence, problem - when Dylan Benet Klebold got covered up by this entity containing Dylan's body....

I do ponder this as well. It's like he felt overtaken and Dylan was still there but not for long




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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 4:45 pm

Did Dylan also see Dr Albert? And if he did, why does people only care about what Albert heard from Eric?

Was Albert part of the diversionprogram?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 4:54 pm

munchkinphone wrote:
Did Dylan also see Dr Albert? And if he did, why does people only care about what Albert heard from Eric?

Was Albert part of the diversionprogram?

No, Dylan was very again therapy. In AMR Sue asked Dylan if he needed help and he said absolutely note even if he was forced to go, he probably wouldn't have talked.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 4:56 pm

Then why does it say Albert in his dayplanner?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 5:04 pm

munchkinphone wrote:
Then why does it say Albert in his dayplanner?

Maybe he was making a notation of Eric having to see Albert? scratch

Because Dylan himself was never in therapy. It was discussed, but he told his parents that he would prove to them that he didn't need it, and they believed him.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 5:10 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
munchkinphone wrote:
Then why does it say Albert in his dayplanner?

Maybe he was making a notation of Eric having to see Albert? scratch  

Because Dylan himself was never in therapy. It was discussed, but he told his parents that he would prove to them that he didn't need it, and they believed him.

Wasn't it said Eric and Dylan went to appointments together at times? Not therapy though
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 5:11 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
He's always talked about duality. The lines in the middle of the heart look like a scar, like it's trying to be patched up

This passage has always got to me:

a lot on the past though... ive always had a thing for the past - how it reacts to the present & the future - or rather vice versa. I wonder how/when i got so fucked up... my mind, existence, problem - when Dylan Benet Klebold got covered up by this entity containing Dylan's body....

I do ponder this as well. It's like he felt overtaken and Dylan was still there but not for long




That always stuck out to me as well. It was like he KNEW something was terribly wrong, and either couldn't help himself/didn't know how to help himself. OR at that point just no longer cared.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 5:12 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
munchkinphone wrote:
Then why does it say Albert in his dayplanner?

Maybe he was making a notation of Eric having to see Albert? scratch  

Because Dylan himself was never in therapy. It was discussed, but he told his parents that he would prove to them that he didn't need it, and they believed him.

Wasn't it said Eric and Dylan went to appointments together at times? Not therapy though

Yes they did have some combined appointments. But none that involved Eric's therapy sessions.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 5:24 pm

I found these symbols (or whatever they are) as well. Three with TB written next to it and one with RB and I also saw one with DB but it was barely a symbol so I didn't care to upload it haha.

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I don't know what it is supposed to mean...

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeWed Dec 13, 2017 5:27 pm

munchkinphone wrote:
I found these symbols (or whatever they are) as well. Three with TB written next to it and one with RB and I also saw one with DB but it was barely a symbol so I didn't care to upload it haha.
I think "TB" is supposed to be "Thought Box." I believe that he calls them thought pictures a couple of times and then says thought box once or twice.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeFri Dec 15, 2017 11:49 am

One could go crazy in trying to figure out these symbols and what Dylan may or may not have meant when he used them. scratch

But my own personal opinion is that Dylan felt like he was lost, lost in this world, lost in his head, just plain out lost.  He couldn't find anything to make him feel like he knew where he was, or where he was going. This is why I think he always drew the highway.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeFri Dec 15, 2017 11:58 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
One could go crazy in trying to figure out these symbols and what Dylan may or may not have meant when he used them. scratch

But my own personal opinion is that Dylan felt like he was lost, lost in this world, lost in his head, just plain out lost.  He couldn't find anything to make him feel like he knew where he was, or where he was going. This is why I think he always drew the highway.

The only time he felt sure of anything was when he thought about ending his life.

"I don't fit in here thinking of suicide gives me hope"
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeFri Dec 15, 2017 5:16 pm

He only used the Ankh symbols in the beginning of his journal, it symbolizes eternal life and insight of the highest level.

I have a question. What do you think made him so sure about his selfawareness and insight. Sure, life is very simply structured and it is hard to believe it is all there is, but I don't feel that a person normally would draw the conclusion that life CANT be all there is just because it is so little.

The thought of there being more than life itself to existence was surely something that comforted him but he could have just stayed fluid with his beliefs regarding that and still have the thought comfort him.

Could it have to do with him doing drugs or having some experience which strenghtened this belief to become more than just a belief? Or was it rather just him becoming isolated which made him blind to other perspectives, or was it just pure narcissism?

I believe in some sense that Dylan must have been a bigger narcissist than Eric in case he was not fundamentally changed by some mindblowing experience. He must have believed early on that his insight alone afforded him some kind of position where he is above all else and not in position to be questioned (even by himself), or else I feel he would have questioned himself. It is very sudden and extreme and an interesting distinction from Eric imo. Eric was more like "I can do whatever I want because I dont care about anything".

Dylan of course also had that attitude but it was connected to this belief, or rather self proclaimed knowing, of existence. This was not adopted in a wanting to be able to commit terrible acts of violence... So why was it set in stone so early on?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeFri Dec 15, 2017 8:13 pm

Littlelo wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
One could go crazy in trying to figure out these symbols and what Dylan may or may not have meant when he used them. scratch

But my own personal opinion is that Dylan felt like he was lost, lost in this world, lost in his head, just plain out lost.  He couldn't find anything to make him feel like he knew where he was, or where he was going. This is why I think he always drew the highway.

The only time he felt sure of anything was when he thought about ending his life.

"I don't fit in here thinking of suicide gives me hope"

It's like he always had that as a plan, suicide. Once NBK was solidified there was no turning back. He'd have to kill himself, I wouldn't see Dylan surviving prison, regardless of "followers" he would get. Now his "mystique" lives on for better or worse.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeFri Dec 15, 2017 8:21 pm

munchkinphone wrote:
He only used the Ankh symbols in the beginning of his journal, it symbolizes eternal life and insight of the highest level.

I have a question. What do you think made him so sure about his selfawareness and insight. Sure, life is very simply structured and it is hard to believe it is all there is, but I don't feel that a person normally would draw the conclusion that life CANT be all there is just because it is so little.

The thought of there being more than life itself to existence was surely something that comforted him but he could have just stayed fluid with his beliefs regarding that and still have the thought comfort him.

Could it have to do with him doing drugs or having some experience which strenghtened this belief to become more than just a belief? Or was it rather just him becoming isolated which made him blind to other perspectives, or was it just pure narcissism?

I believe in some sense that Dylan must have been a bigger narcissist than Eric in case he was not fundamentally changed by some mindblowing experience. He must have believed early on that his insight alone afforded him some kind of position where he is above all else and not in position to be questioned (even by himself), or else I feel he would have questioned himself. It is very sudden and extreme and an interesting distinction from Eric imo. Eric was more like "I can do whatever I want because I dont care about anything".

Dylan of course also had that attitude but it was connected to this belief, or rather self proclaimed knowing, of existence. This was not adopted in a wanting to be able to commit terrible acts of violence... So why was it set in stone so early on?
.

I want to think about this a bit more. I think he was a narcissist in some ways. However he did seem to WANT to fit in and feel normal. When he couldn't it was like "fuck you zombies, I don't want to be brainless anyway"

He wasn't a big drug user besides pot I think, drinker yes.. I think Dylan had delusions of grandeur. I think he was gifted and bright and bored. I went to school with a kid like Dylan ( I thought he was very cool but I was too shy to talk to him) he slept through class, wore stoner tshirts and aced everything. He was way too smart and mature to deal with us dorks in grade 10.

Dylan's mind  was gifted and broken.

He may not have wanted therapy or Meds because what if his kind became dappened? Just a thought. Also how would he feel when most of the comments about him on the internet is about his ponytail. "I left you deep freaking thoughts, stop with the ponytail"

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeFri Dec 15, 2017 10:26 pm

I find it interesting that Dylan always left a little mystery when it came to his writings. I think this is why we speculate a lot more about Dylan's feelings in his journal. Eric was very literal and didn't leave much to the imagination. He put it all out there. I wonder what it says about Dylan that he was so into symbols, and that he was consistent with the same ones for months or years.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeFri Dec 15, 2017 11:09 pm

Littlelo wrote:
I find it interesting that Dylan always left a little mystery when it came to his writings. I think this is why we speculate a lot more about Dylan's feelings in his journal. Eric was very literal and didn't leave much to the imagination. He put it all out there. I wonder what it says about Dylan that he was so into symbols, and that he was consistent with the same ones for months or years.

Especially being a teenager. They can be fickle and things that are meaningful one day may not have the same resonence,

It's interesting you bring up how up front and blunt Eric was in his writings, because Dylan was VERY blunt in his writings in Eric's yearbook. He wrote in about 7 pages. It shows me that Dylan could let his angry side out with Eric. Was that an actual quote in the transcript of the BT, Eric telling Dylan to "feel the rage, get angry"

I'm also interested in the jewelry he wore for many years. His ring, cloth necklace and earring.

He also was carrying a pocket watch on 4/20 but I never heard if anyone knew if he carried it around.

A lot of his symbols seem to mean the struggle between good and evil. It makes me wonder when he started having the feelings of rage and murder. That has to be scary for someone I bet. He knew something was up, he referred at times to Dylan as being someone else. The issues is too that I don't think he felt like anyone would understand that he felt inhuman. Also when he tries to "cleanse" himself and not pick on people or watch porn.. like all of the things are awful and he wants to be "sweet" Dylan again.


Has anyone tried to do a handwriting analysis on Dylan?

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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeSat Dec 16, 2017 7:19 am

I would love for someone to do a handwriting analysis!

I have a question about this symbol box thing:

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Is this picture meant to be percieved as a 2d box or is it more of a pyramid with most people on top (like connected to cliff theory) and him not even on it?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeSat Dec 16, 2017 7:32 am

munchkinphone wrote:
I would love for someone to do a handwriting analysis!

I have a question about this symbol box thing:

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Is this picture meant to be percieved as a 2d box or is it more of a pyramid with most people on top (like  connected to cliff theory) and him not even on it?

It looks like more of a "pyramid" where the layers are separated by "limitations", so I guess he is saying that most people are limited when it comes to their existence and how they live their life. I would assume he thinks he lies somewhere outside the box or in the outer most section?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeSat Dec 16, 2017 7:44 am

Yes, He was outside it.

He says somewhere in his journal that he tries to "cleanse himself" and that it does nothing for his life morally.

What does he mean by this? It is as if he believed in Karma or something and thought that if he was to be good, it would come back to him and then because it didn't he felt like him acting morally did not matter anymore.

He didn't feel like he got anything out of acting good towards others, probably because his efforts was about limiting "bad behaviour" rather than implementing "good behaviour"

You rarely get praise for what you do not do Haha. Maybe he could have sorted himself out if he just focused more on what to do instead of on what not to do.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeSat Dec 16, 2017 7:49 am

I agree, he thought if he "cleansed" himself things would change for him. He didn't realize that his deep depression wasn't so easy to just get over. But it almost sounds like he was trying to practice self-care (trying not to drink as much as before, taking St. John's wort) before he eventually gave up.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeSat Dec 16, 2017 9:25 am

Littlelo wrote:
I agree, he thought if he "cleansed" himself things would change for him. He didn't realize that his deep depression wasn't so easy to just get over. But it almost sounds like he was trying to practice self-care (trying not to drink as much as before, taking St. John's wort) before he eventually gave up.


It's like he felt like he was being punished for things so he tried to stop them. When he did stop them and he wasn't feeling any better or feeling connected he thought "well screw this" he needed help from a professional, I bet that would have been hard too, finding someone to talk to and help. I think he got to a point where he felt he didn't need/want help. He was so far gone, felt SO different and smarter than everyone that in his mind, how could mere humans deal with a God?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylans symbols   Dylans symbols Icon_minitimeSat Dec 16, 2017 1:05 pm

Littlelo wrote:
It looks like more of a "pyramid" where the layers are separated by "limitations", so I guess he is saying that most people are limited when it comes to their existence and how they live their life. I would assume he thinks he lies somewhere outside the box or in the outer most section?
I agree. If you look at the full page, he does write "me" in it's own box far outside of the box containing everyone else both times that he draws this picture. It seems that everything outside of the box represents the "infinince" that he likes to talk about in his journal.
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