Frank DeAngelis what is the truth?

I am currently reading thru the 11k and I am on Frank DeAngelis testimony. I am not too far in only like 5600 pages so IDK if he comes back up again but anyway....

I watched a documentary where he was interviewed and he stated that Dave Sanders saved his life because he was coming up the stairs at the same time he (Frank) was walking down a hall and the shooters shot at Dave instead of at him. He claimed to have seen the shooters and Dave being shot

Well in the 11k he mentions none of this. He mentions how he locked some girls up in a closet in the gym then let them back out a bit later and then talks about a few other random movements but never mentions anything about Sanders. He also does mention seeing a shooter outside of the school and that the shooter shot in where he was but it isn't like the "moving interview" he gave in the documentary.

Other teachers and students backed up the story of him helping the girls in the gym so I believe that but why on Earth would he start talking about poor Dave Sanders when that really never happened?

Has anyone else read further in the 11k to know if DeAngelis comes back and states more? Or is he just blowing smoke out his ass?

Not a helpful answer but If it were false I wouldn't be surprised.

DeAngelis deep inside, whether he acknowledges it or not, knows he was an enabler.

His job to a large degree is that of ambassador, no doubt you have to take anything he says with a grain of salt.

I always wondered about the descriptions of DeAngelis running down the halls before 4/20 kicked in.. was that a confusion/timeline issue? Anybody have thoughts?

Fatheroftwo wrote:

DeAngelis deep inside, whether he acknowledges it or not, knows he was an enabler.

His job to a large degree is that of ambassador, no doubt you have to take anything he says with a grain of salt.

I always wondered about the descriptions of DeAngelis running down the halls before 4/20 kicked in..    was that a confusion/timeline issue?  Anybody have thoughts?

According to the 11k prior to the shooting he was telling teacher Kiki Lebaya that he got a English teaching job that he had applied for. Susan White a secretary was the one to tell him that the shooting was going on and then DeAngelis and Kiki ran out of the room.

I always thought DeAngelis was full of shit, tbpfh.

ThoughtBox wrote:

I always thought DeAngelis was full of shit, tbpfh.

You and me both

same here you guys. Brian Rohrbough did a radio show back in 2006 where he talked about Columbine and released recordings etc, and he talked about how he and his wife met with Frank and Frank made a comment along the lines of "I can't wait till the trial to tell the truth" and Brian's wife said "why not tell the truth immediately?" Frank retaliated by saying "he has his career to think about" (back then when he was still principal).

He's a dog. He's always been about reputation and etc.

liquorvamp wrote:

same here you guys. Brian Rohrbough did a radio show back in 2006 where he talked about Columbine and released recordings etc, and he talked about how he and his wife met with Frank and Frank made a comment along the lines of "I can't wait till the trial to tell the truth" and Brian's wife said "why not tell the truth immediately?" Frank retaliated by saying "he has his career to think about" (back then when he was still principal).

He's a dog. He's always been about reputation and etc.

Interesting. I always got the impression he was the kind of principal who wanted to be buddies with the students and not actually attend to being an administrator. He probably wanted all the jocks and popular kids to like him as much as some of the so-called outcasts did!

I agree with the negative opinion of Frank.Before the shootings I don't think he cared about the sufferings and problems of the outcasts and heavily bullied in the school.
I'm sure such students didn't see him as approachable either.Devon Adams who actually liked the guy even said that he was lying about there not being a bullying problem at Columbine after the hearings they had on that.To this day he won't admit that there was anything about his administrative style or the way the school operated that could have been a factor in what happened.He just says that E &D were evil and crazy and that's it.Case closed.To this day I don't think he has ever expressed sympathy for the loss that E &D's parents suffered or reached out to them which I find to be kind of cold.

Does anybody know mr frank deangelis' whereabouts during the rampage? and whether he did the most he could to save the kids than thinking of himself?

liquorvamp wrote:

Does anybody know mr frank deangelis' whereabouts during the rampage? and whether he did the most he could to save the kids than thinking of himself?

Compiled from the 11K and El Paso reports, after he saw one of the gunmen coming towards him in the west hallway his statements of what he did were:

11k (pg 5677) Went to gym area and hearded female students into storage closet.
11k (pg 5678 ) Exited gym. Returned to gym , rescued students and directed them to Clement Park.
El Paso (pg 282) Exited gym. Contacted sheriff deputy. DeAngeles returned to gym and escorted female students to Clement Park. Was not allowed back into bldg to rescue more students.
11k (pg5678 ) : Frank DeAngeles estimated 10 minutes had passed from the time he originally exited his office to the point he saw the first police car arrive on the scene. Police unit was identified as beige and unmarked. The car drove to the shed by the soccer field.
11k (pg 5679) Went to command post
El Paso (282) Went to command post on Pierce and Bowles.


His whereabouts and statements seem to contradict that Mr.Sanders saved his life, as the time differences of where they were differ.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thank you very much slippy. hmh, interesting.
God why did he have to make up that fabricated story just to be part of the entire empathy? It's so gross. No shit that mr sanders was much more of a hero than he was. Okay, I won't disregard the help that frank tried to do at that point of time but if you weigh it out, it wasn't enough. Not many had good to say about him after 4/20 either apparently..

Is there a reason he was hovering only towards the gym area than check classrooms?

fuck Frank Deangelis.

Also, i've been watching columbine prom assembly vids.

El Paso Report - Case Core - Page 283:

According to Mr. DeAngelis, "Harris and Klebold died at approximately 12:45pm".

sororityalpha wrote:

El Paso Report - Case Core - Page 283:

According to Mr. DeAngelis, "Harris and Klebold died at approximately 12:45pm".

There are alot of discrepencies from the El Paso, compared to the 11K,
but I believe Eric and Dylan were shooting out the library windows at the police and EMS past
12:45.

Eric/Dylan were shooting from the Library windows around 12:02 pm -12:05 pm when the ambulances arrived.

sororityalpha wrote:

Eric/Dylan were shooting from the Library windows around 12:02 pm -12:05 pm when the ambulances arrived.

Ah that was my blunder, I was thinking of 11:45. Do you think they were alive past 12:08?

sororityalpha wrote:

El Paso Report - Case Core - Page 283:

According to Mr. DeAngelis, "Harris and Klebold died at approximately 12:45pm".

LOL Guy doesn't even know what he is talking about half the time.

The only reason I can think of that Frank would think one of them was still alive after 12:08pm was the incident that took place by the library emergency exit door around 12:35pm while SWAT members were dragging Richard Castaldo away from the West entrance doors.

I don't care what anyone says, that guy wasn't in the building, he was the first one out. He keeps repeating the same story as a 'cannon sized gun', and if anyone has studied liars they will tell you that liars will tend to repeat the lie exactly the same each time. Also the fact he hid from interviewers after the attack was odd.

@charleswhitmam i agree w you.

Frank's a wanker. And a liar.

I don't trust a damn word DeAngelis says. How could someone who loved their students so much allow the kind of bullying and abuse to happen on such a mass scale? I really hate to say this, but it sounds like a bullshit sob story. The whole community wanted to pretend that E and D were unnatural monsters instead of products of horrible nurture. DeAngelis didnt want to be the guy who allowed the kind of abuse that turns two teens into killers. I'm certain that DeAngelis went through some heavy grieving like everyone else, but I don't think he cared about his students as much as he wanted us to believe.

Nirvana92 wrote:

I don't trust a damn word DeAngelis says. How could someone who loved their students so much allow the kind of bullying and abuse to happen on such a mass scale? I really hate to say this, but it sounds like a bullshit sob story. The whole community wanted to pretend that E and D were unnatural monsters instead of products of horrible nurture. DeAngelis didnt want to be the guy who allowed the kind of abuse that turns two teens into killers. I'm certain that DeAngelis went through some heavy grieving like everyone else, but I don't think he cared about his students as much as he wanted us to believe.

It was pretty sad to me to hear students talk about being bullied and picked on after the 20 and then see photos of Frank D. with a huge phony smile on his face hugging jocks and other students. What a faker. Giving interviews about how he can feel the changes....

Eric and Dylan lost interest in sports in their senior year because the big stocky jocks were too competitive with it and it sucked out the fun for them. And since Frank was also a coach, sports meant everything to him, and Eric and Dylan were not keen sport players anymore, so they didn't mean anything to him, they weren't going to be participating in winning any trophies for the school.

Frank D reminds me exactly of a staff in my school back then whose ass just had and loved to be kissed. Everybody had to constantly smooch it.

Frank is essentially what we in the US would call a "jock sniffer," i.e., someone who is so infatuated with the jocks and jock culture and being cool and liked by them. That's Frank D.

Jocks and the popular ones really. Always joining in on their stuff and their lingos. Urgh. He's the old guys who says L.O.L. literally.

I can see it now. As long as the Football team was doing good, and Columbine was winning at sports, the other kids (non jocks) and their problems are second, and Frank knew this. I knew teachers like that at my highschool too. Comparing reports there is no actual evidence that Frank even saw any of them let alone come in contact with the shooters. He was reported more towards the back, near the gym. Plus he was in a job interview with a teacher and didn't even notice anything was happening until kids were always saving themselves.

Yup. You know who a hero is? Dave Sanders. He was more than a teacher. He put everyone else before him, even when he was on the ground he was still ushering students to leave. Everytime I think about him I will tear up. And those kids with him, they became adults and heroes TO him reminding him of his family till his last breath.

So for Frank to fabricate an account just to have a part in what Dave did is disgusting. If some of the parents dislike him such as Danny's father, then it's no surprise why everyone else is cringing at the thought of Frank.

I can't stand Frank DeAngelis either.  He seems like a liar and jock worshiper.  
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I agree.....Dave Sanders was the real hero that day.

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credits to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] from this thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

I'm still cackling.

The fact that 99% of everyone in the school had heard of the tcm and Frank claimed he had 0 idea about it is just ugh

Either he did know and pretended he didn't or he was just that willfully oblivious.

liquorvamp wrote:

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credits to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] from this thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

I'm still cackling.

You know what I hate? Star Wars fans: get a friggin life, you boring geeks

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Ahhhhhhhh love itttttt!!!! Hahaaaah!

CharlesWhitman wrote:

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May the force be with you

liquorvamp wrote:

Yup. You know who a hero is? Dave Sanders. He was more than a teacher. He put everyone else before him, even when he was on the ground he was still ushering students to leave. Everytime I think about him I will tear up. And those kids with him, they became adults and heroes TO him reminding him of his family till his last breath.

So for Frank to fabricate an account just to have a part in what Dave did is disgusting. If some of the parents dislike him such as Danny's father, then it's no surprise why everyone else is cringing at the thought of Frank.

I think out of guilt is why Frank made up the story of Dave saving his life. But I do agree Dave should of without question been saved.

I don't understand this man. He does talk a lot about the victims and the massacre itself along with all the other copycat shooters that have occurred since 04/20/1999. However I never heard him say anything about E&D. Did he ever know who they were or learn the possible causes that made them rampage or did he not care at all and just focused himself on the school and the victims? Does seem pretty ignorant don't you think?

aquillina wrote:

I don't understand this man. He does talk a lot about the victims and the massacre itself along with all the other copycat shooters that have occurred since 04/20/1999. However I never heard him say anything about E&D. Did he ever know who they were or learn the possible causes that made them rampage or did he not care at all and just focused himself on the school and the victims? Does seem pretty ignorant don't you think?

Like I said before the majority of people within the community were more than willing to settle for the "evil monsters" explanation. Talking about Eric and Dylan would not only be admitting to failure on his part, but it also calls into question the entire jock/bully based atmosphere of Columbine. I went to a sports loving highschool and from time to time I took my fair share of degradation from the athletes. The difference between my school and Columbine was teachers never turned a blind eye at my school. Bullying was a punishable offense for everyone no matter what your standing was. The teachers at Columbine were active participants though by turning a blind eye to it, and allowing that indifference is why DeAngelis failed to do protect his students.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending E/D, but I can't imagine just how fucking shocked the bullies and staff must have been. Some of those students and teachers deserve to feel some amount of guilt. Was Columbine directly their fault? Of course not. Still you can't let that kind of abuse and favoritism go on and then be surprised that someone snaps. Columbine's cult-of-the-athlete was too poisonous an environment to force developing teenagers into on a daily basis. It wasnt hard at all for the boys to justify their attack on the school because they themselves had felt attacked there everyday for 4 years. It sometimes surprises me that E/D waited so long to go through with it. I imagine there was a certain numbness to the humiliation that came before the boys boiling point was reached.

I know bullying wasnt the biggest factor in the attack, but there's no denying it played some part in it. For DeAngelis to dig into E and D would mean he'd have to admit his carelessness may have led to the death of 13 innocent people. That's an amount of guilt than most people could not deal with.

Him not knowing E&D exactly explains it all. They were nobodies in his eyes.

Frank said he didn't know E and D. He also said he had no idea what the trench coat mafia was. How does everyone know but he the leader of the school does not know? He didn't want to know because he didn't care.

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Frank was more of a coach than a principal, he didn't care about you unless you were winning a sport trophy for his hall.

Well, I like and appreciate that they dedicated their win to Matthew. However, the whole glorifying jock culture, friday night lights-esque culture disgusts me. I just can't. Even when I was in school the sporty ones got the most attention because they make the school look good? Trust me I'm not close minded in terms of sports. Powerful people do powerful things with their strengths and bodies, however, please don't forget the quiet ones who are intelligent in studies, numbers, computers, the weirdos who have rainbow hair, the introverts who can't make the first moves, let alone don't BULLY 'em.

So yeah, frank D, you're putting yourself within all these kids tryna be like a godfather figure to all. stop it. Had you noticed the unnoticable ones for abit and appreciate them maybe majority wouldn't be so sick of you.

and anyway didn't Isaiah and Matt quit football because the Columbine team were pieces of shit?

liquorvamp wrote:

and anyway didn't Isaiah and Matt quit football because the Columbine team were pieces of shit?

Was it all because of Rocky Hoffschneider and his band cronies? I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think so. The last I read the team members were obnoxiously racist and be acting all superior and just plain bullies...they knew better so they left the team. Quite an irony the team dedicated their win to Matt. I don't think he would want anything from the team in his honour. It's people like the football team that sickens Eric and Dyl.

Found a quote by Brooks about his opinion on DeAngelis (from his reddit AmA) that sums it up perfectly:

"Thought he was a joke before, and even more of one afterwards. He would tell stories how I would go into his office and cry about bullying and he was there as a shoulder to cry on - but then he'd say bullying never happened. Odd cat."

Do you think Mr. D could have done anything to prevent the shootings? If he had been more aware of the bullying and took action on it maybe. But Columbine was such a big school it would be hard for him alone to maintain surveillance throughout the campus.

aquillina wrote:

Do you think Mr. D could have done anything to prevent the shootings? If he had been more aware of the bullying and took action on it maybe. But Columbine was such a big school it would be hard for him alone to maintain surveillance throughout the campus.

Just on his own no way. But he needed to be the catalyst for change. He was the leader of the school after all. He needed to set an example and have ALL employees follow to stop bullying and other things. It was not just the bullying so I don't think that would nec. stop the shootings but it would have make the school a more positive place. Students like Dylan were hacking into computers and stealing equipment. I get that Columbine was an open campus environment but I do think there needed to be more eyes on parts of the school.

There were reports of teachers doing bullying. That is just depressing.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] agreed. and teacher/principal-favouritism also happens which is enough to demoralise a student and embarrass them infront of their peers. I think there was an encounter of that happening to both Eric and Dylan and that was gross. Since when was it a teacher's position to put down a student? and not even in a disciplinary sense, just plain making fun of them.