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 Frank DeAngelis releasing a book

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PostSubject: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Mar 11, 2019 12:25 pm

Frank DeAngelis has a book available on Amazon for pre-order. It is $29.95 and will be available March 31.

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"After the tragic shootings April 20, 1999 that left thirteen dead, Frank DeAngelis mourned with the Columbine community. He vowed to never forget those who were murdered and dedicated his life and career to helping his students - his kids - recover. He committed to staying on as principal to help the students and the community heal. Columbine was his family.

For the first time since the event that rocked the nation and forever changed his life, DeAngelis offers a personal narrative of tragedy, hope, and resilience. He walks readers through the school on the day of the shooting and openly shares the struggles he and the community endured in the months and years that followed. Offering insights on leadership under pressure and on how to rebuild a community after the unimaginable happens, this book will inspire readers as it equips them to become better leaders themselves."
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Mar 11, 2019 8:29 pm

I am super surprised that no one has commented on this. Am I the only one who didn't know he had a book coming out?
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Mar 11, 2019 8:36 pm

I had no idea!!

I’m intrigued

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Mar 12, 2019 3:59 am

Wait what? He's releasing a book????  I'm quite surprised by this too...
..
I wonder if he really did help the kids like he said he did. So far, I've seen posts throughout this forum that mention students after the shooting that say (or express) that he didn't do anything to change the environment. As a result, things went back to normal with the bullying etc.

Does anyone think the book will be truthful or will it be another facade?
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Mar 12, 2019 8:15 am

I think it's going to be a facade. I doubt he helped any of the kids affected due to what [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] says about what has been heard about bullying after the fact. I think it's going to be a hello look at me and everything I did to help after the shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Mar 12, 2019 8:29 am

I also think it will be a lot of imaginings on his part. I think he has his rose colored glasses on all the time. It really seems like he believes a lot of the BS that he is spreading around. from the other students here on this forum we know that he has not always been there for everyone needing it and things did not change after 99

And on top of that he has lied over and over about the actual 20th and what he was doing that day. So I will read it but I am not going to believe much.

TBH I am just so excited for something new

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeWed Mar 13, 2019 3:08 pm

@Lizpuff wrote:
I also think it will be a lot of imaginings on his part.  I think he has his rose colored glasses on all the time.  It really seems like he believes a lot of the BS that he is spreading around.  from the other students here on this forum we know that he has not always been there for everyone needing it and things did not change after 99

And on top of that he has lied over and over about the actual 20th and what he was doing that day. So I will read it but I am not going to believe much.

TBH I am just so excited for something new

Yes, I am intrigued by the book but don't expect it to be the most accurate. I'm interested to see his narrative.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeWed Mar 13, 2019 8:55 pm

I'm excited to hear from him, but I highly doubt we'll get anything mind blowing from him.

I hope I'm wrong and maybe he'll mention any passing's he had with Eric and Dylan
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2019 8:37 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm excited to hear from him, but I highly doubt we'll get anything mind blowing from him.

I hope I'm wrong and maybe he'll mention any passing's he had with Eric and Dylan

That would be one of those things where if he does mention knowing them or talking to them I won't believe him. He had no idea who the two of them were out of any of the other gothic looking kids

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2019 9:10 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm excited to hear from him, but I highly doubt we'll get anything mind blowing from him.

I hope I'm wrong and maybe he'll mention any passing's he had with Eric and Dylan

That would be one of those things where if he does mention knowing them or talking to them I won't believe him.  He had no idea who the two of them were out of any of the other gothic looking kids

You're probably right. I'm just so desperate for anything new. It would be great if the admins in charge of the locker suspension would speak about what they remember.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2019 9:47 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

You're probably right. I'm just so desperate for anything new. It would be great if the admins in charge of the locker suspension would speak about what they remember.

Same. At this point, I'm interested in the different perspectives but don't necessarily expect a lot in the way of revelations. I'll be surprised if there is much self reflection or acknowledgement of his mistakes, but if he did present things as such it would definitely raise him in my esteem. If he actually learned and grew from it, that'd be worth reading about.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeFri Mar 15, 2019 3:00 pm

@thelmar wrote:
@whyno wrote:

You're probably right. I'm just so desperate for anything new. It would be great if the admins in charge of the locker suspension would speak about what they remember.

Same. At this point, I'm interested in the different perspectives but don't necessarily expect a lot in the way of revelations. I'll be surprised if there is much self reflection or acknowledgement of his mistakes, but if he did present things as such it would definitely raise him in my esteem. If he actually learned and grew from it, that'd be worth reading about.

It's always refreshing to get a different perspective on the shooting from someone personally affected. I, personally, really enjoy them. I'm not really expecting anything new either, but I want to know what he has to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Mar 19, 2019 8:10 pm

I wonder if he'll confirm whether or not Brooks actually confronted him at graduation and blamed him for cultivating a culture of cruelty at the school.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 1:32 am

Not interested, because he caused that horrible school environment by not punishing the bullies and especially the jocks. In my opinion, he should've been sued by the Klebolds and Harrises for the bullying environment.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 4:20 am

Dave cullen will be involved in this
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 7:09 am

Everyone seems to say bully culture created Columbine, I say sensitive "I need to be a victim - woe is me" culture created Columbine. Take a pinch of sensitive twat then add in a dash of pharmaceutical drugs that fuck with your manic depression and you get columbine.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 1:07 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Not interested, because he caused that horrible school environment by not punishing the bullies and especially the jocks. In my opinion, he should've been sued by the Klebolds and Harrises for the bullying environment.

Er, seeing as how Eric and Dylan ended up becoming bigger bullies than the worst of the jocks at Columbine, I don't think the Harris and Klebold family would have a leg to stand on. Any judge that gets this sent to their desk would dismiss the lawsuit before it ever goes to trial, and people would find this kind of move by either family to be a vapid cash-grab or an attempt to shift blame. This would be an absolutely horrible idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 2:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Not interested, because he caused that horrible school environment by not punishing the bullies and especially the jocks. In my opinion, he should've been sued by the Klebolds and Harrises for the bullying environment.

Er, seeing as how Eric and Dylan ended up becoming bigger bullies than the worst of the jocks at Columbine, I don't think the Harris and Klebold family would have a leg to stand on. Any judge that gets this sent to their desk would dismiss the lawsuit before it ever goes to trial, and people would find this kind of move by either family to be a vapid cash-grab or an attempt to shift blame. This would be an absolutely horrible idea.
His school, his responsibility to make students feel safe and not harrassed on a daily basis. It would've been a legit lawsuit and they could still try it if they wanted to. They could say the constant bullying is what led them to murder and they snapped.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 4:32 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It would've been a legit lawsuit and they could still try it if they wanted to. They could say the constant bullying is what led them to murder and they snapped.

No, no it would not have been a legit lawsuit, it would've been seen as frivolous BS and get thrown out in due order.

I know that civil trials have a lower bar to prove things than a criminal trial (hence why OJ was held responsible for the murders at his civil trial but not his criminal one), but in this case first you have to prove:

1. Bullying did occur. This is the easiest part to prove, but that's not saying much. The school's layers could easily point to times where Eric and/or Dylan were accused of being bullies in order to downplay the harassment they received, or even excuse it.
2. The bullying was caused by the inaction of school administrators. Yeah, good luck with proving that. Do you really think the faculty are going to rat each other out? No, they're going to say "we didn't know", "no-one came forward", etc.
3. The bullying caused the massacre. The best lawyer in the world wouldn't be able to prove this. You wanna know what the defense is going to say when the prosecution makes this argument?
- "In January of 1998, Harris and Klebold were arrested for breaking and entering, criminal mischief, and theft after stealing electronics from a van..."
- "In the years leading up to the shootings at Columbine High, Harris, Klebold, and an unknown number of their associates wrote on their personal websites about vandalizing homes and detonating pipe bombs..."
- "On [I forgot the date] Harris, Klebold, and another associate hacked into the school's computers to find locker combinations of individuals they hated..."
- "An associate of Harris and Klebold testified that Harris threatened to kill him after a confrontation over getting rides to school..."
- "On [date], Klebold scratched a homophobic slur on the locker of another student..."
- "The personal journals of Harris and Klebold, along with their video journals and actions both before and during the killings (particularly victim selection), do not demonstrate that the massacre was motivated by a hatred of jocks, athlete culture, or revenge against bullies..."
- "Millions of kids in America today are victims of bullying, but the number who go on to commit murder, much less mass murder, is miniscule..."

This is the tip of the iceberg! Things that came to my mind immediately! I won't even get into how easy it would be for the defense to throw the whole thing back in the faces of the Harris and Klebold families by arguing "well, why didn't YOU notice anything wrong with your children?", or argue that it was JeffCo's fault for not prosecuting Eric for any number of reasons, or that it was the fault of Robin Anderson and Mark Manes for supplying the pair with weapons, so on and so forth. What the fuck is the prosecution going to do to argue against that?

Bottom line? This would never make it to court, the judge would throw it in the garbage, and everyone would hate the Harris and Klebold family for what looks like an attempt to deflect blame. You are kidding yourself if you think this would ever fly in a courtroom.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 4:08 pm

Today is the 31st, did anyone buy the book?
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 4:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Everyone seems to say bully culture created Columbine, I say sensitive "I need to be a victim - woe is me" culture created Columbine. Take a pinch of sensitive twat then add in a dash of pharmaceutical drugs that fuck with your manic depression and you get columbine.  
I tend to think any bullying was a symptom and not the disease.

I think Elliott Rodger style, incel rage had more to do with Dylan's motive than bullying by a long shot.  He didn't say bullying was why he wanted to die. He wrote quite explicitly that that's why he hated the jocks. He saved most of his bullets for the girls. He wrote extensively about meeting his love in the afterlife.  Not wanting to die alone seems a motive.

I think Kaczynski style, hatred of over-socialization has a lot more to do with Eric's motive.  Again, he wrote a lot more about not wanting to be a conformist drone part of society than he did bullying.

Because of that both of them were probably outcasts who got bullied, yeah, but I don't think that explains much.

The above says a lot more about "wrath" and "natural selection" than does 'bullying' in my opinion. I think bullying should be in the same box as targeting Christians and the rest of the stuff said the day after the massacre due to what they said in the library.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Apr 02, 2019 11:58 pm

It looks like Frank DeAngelis' book is doing well.

These are his Amazon stats:
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],638 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in School Safety
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in Mental & Spiritual Healing
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in Memoirs (Books)

Think I'm going to wait and see if my library gets a couple copies, but if anyone has purchased this I'd love to hear an opinion on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2019 4:13 pm

I started to read this book when it popped up on my hoopla reading app. I glossed over much of it. IMO it seemed very forced (but maybe that’s just me). Without giving away anything it seemed like he always felt like a father figure to the students but doesn’t show that same feeling to Dylan and Eric. I totally get it, I mean they did a horrific act, but in the same sense he didn’t come across as someone who felt that they even belonged there. Like they were never part of the student body. I don’t know when I’ll finish it. Not in my top list of Columbine books.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2019 4:56 pm

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
I started to read this book when it popped up on my hoopla reading app. I glossed over much of it. IMO it seemed very forced (but maybe that’s just me). Without giving away anything it seemed like he always felt like a father figure to the students but doesn’t show that same feeling to Dylan and Eric. I totally get it, I mean they did a horrific act, but in the same sense he didn’t come across as someone who felt that they even belonged there. Like they were never part of the student body.  I don’t know when I’ll finish it. Not in my top list of Columbine books.

To be honest with you I get that vibe from other students too. Devon talks about it, she accepted Dylan of course because they were friends but she does talk about how they didn’t really belong. And Evan Todd did too.

And I guarantee you, not to sound like an armchair psychologist, but Eric and Dylan probably picked up on the vibe too! Which is why I actually really appreciated it when Sue and Tom said that maybe Dylan and Zach should do some volunteer work around the school so they can feel more connected to their peers instead of alienating

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2019 5:30 pm

I agree with you. I don’t think they belonged or even felt like they belonged. I guess it just seemed weird in Frank’s book he would say things like “we are a family” and “we lost 12 kids and 1 teacher” when in reality 15 lives were lost. Regardless of the situation. They were still Columbine High School students. It shows the gap of them not being “part” of the “family” in his eyes. (Just my opinion).

The beginning of the book is all about Frank and growing up etc etc. I’m around the part of the memorials. I know I’ll finish it, but it’s not a book that I couldn’t put down. I like to see all perspectives, regardless if I personally believe what they may be saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2019 5:33 pm

I am really looking forward to reading Kaceys.

A lot of the students talked about how they still felt Eric and Dylan were part of the school. It is really interesting perspective they had on them.

It’s an easier thing to just cast them aside then to really think about where their place in the school was And where the disconnect happened. Because from what we know they had really good home lives

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSat Apr 06, 2019 2:24 am

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
I agree with you. I don’t think they belonged or even felt like they belonged. I guess it just seemed weird in Frank’s book he would say things like “we are a family” and “we lost 12 kids and 1 teacher” when in reality 15 lives were lost. Regardless of the situation. They were still Columbine High School students. It shows the gap of them not being “part” of the “family” in his eyes. (Just my opinion).

The beginning of the book is all about Frank and growing up etc etc. I’m around the part of the memorials. I know I’ll finish it, but it’s not a book that I couldn’t put down. I like to see all perspectives, regardless if I personally believe what they may be saying.
Yea, but does that justify though they got bullied, because they looked and wanted to act differently. Did it other occur to their peers and teachers that maybe they weren't interested in sports or any of that, they just wanted to be themselves?

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSat Apr 06, 2019 2:27 am

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
I agree with you. I don’t think they belonged or even felt like they belonged. I guess it just seemed weird in Frank’s book he would say things like “we are a family” and “we lost 12 kids and 1 teacher” when in reality 15 lives were lost. Regardless of the situation. They were still Columbine High School students. It shows the gap of them not being “part” of the “family” in his eyes. (Just my opinion).

The beginning of the book is all about Frank and growing up etc etc. I’m around the part of the memorials. I know I’ll finish it, but it’s not a book that I couldn’t put down. I like to see all perspectives, regardless if I personally believe what they may be saying.
As far as I'm concerned, they never treated Dylan and Eric like "family" and that's ashame. If Frank had any guilt at all, he would've done things differently. To this day, I still don't think he gets it. He just wants to blame the problem on gun control when he was supposed to be in charge of the school where the bullying environment happened and he failed.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSat Apr 06, 2019 10:43 am

No way does it justify them being bullied. I agree with you. People should be able to be themselves regardless if it isn’t what the rest of the group is like. I personally understand this. I was def not the “norm” in my school. I was a 16 yr old junior in high school in 1999. Schools didn’t care about bullying. But it’s not an excuse. What I’ve read so far he says things like “there wasn’t a jock environment” (not exact quote). It’s hard for me to believe. TONS of high schools were jock driven. They never got in trouble, they ran the school.

The school isn’t the only place to blame, but I thought after 20 years maybe his story would surface a bit differently. Maybe the ending will have more insight? I doubt it, but I will get through the book just to be sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2019 11:15 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Everyone seems to say bully culture created Columbine, I say sensitive "I need to be a victim - woe is me" culture created Columbine. Take a pinch of sensitive twat then add in a dash of pharmaceutical drugs that fuck with your manic depression and you get columbine.  
I tend to think any bullying was a symptom and not the disease.

I think Elliott Rodger style, incel rage had more to do with Dylan's motive than bullying by a long shot.  He didn't say bullying was why he wanted to die. He wrote quite explicitly that that's why he hated the jocks. He saved most of his bullets for the girls. He wrote extensively about meeting his love in the afterlife.  Not wanting to die alone seems a motive.

I think Kaczynski style, hatred of over-socialization has a lot more to do with Eric's motive.  Again, he wrote a lot more about not wanting to be a conformist drone part of society than he did bullying.

Because of that both of them were probably outcasts who got bullied, yeah, but I don't think that explains much.

The above says a lot more about "wrath" and "natural selection" than does 'bullying' in my opinion. I think bullying should be in the same box as targeting Christians and the rest of the stuff said the day after the massacre due to what they said in the library.

This is fairly close to my guess for the motive, too...Questionmark's post about why the case wouldn't fly is a good one as well
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Apr 08, 2019 5:05 pm

I'd rather not listen to a guy who still blames video games as a motive.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Apr 08, 2019 11:45 pm

Respectfully Tommy, how can you not? The case for that is much stronger than bullying, frankly. Why did they carry and switch between two guns including a shotgun if not because that's what you do in a first person shooter? Their choice of weapons, their outfit, actions such as shooting at the bombs and having fun, the plan to kill em all, the berserk in Eric's pocket, all of it very plainly influenced by first person shooters. Literally included Doom and Duke Nukem among the list of things the massacre would resemble, and Doom is probably at worst the second biggest influence to OKC, if not the biggest, even more than Natural Born Killers.  While it may not be the initial reason to wish to go on a killing spree, it seems to me undeniable the massacre would look very different to the point of not happening at all had they never played a video game.  

People just seem to get defensive and think saying x is a motive is the same as saying x forces people to murder.  Can see the same point-and-sputter defenses with blaming lack of success with women. Just seems to me the shock of the crime has them coping by saying they must have been forced to do it by e. g. bullies.

If you hate someone for whatever reason and want them to die, and then read a book about Jack the Ripper, and then because of that your MO is to stab them in an alley way, I think the book alongside the initial reason counts as  a motive. And that doesn't mean one gets to paint that as "banning books will stop murders" as if one cannot cast their own theories in the same uncharitable light like "banning namecalling will stop murders".
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Apr 09, 2019 11:42 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Respectfully Tommy, how can you not? The case for that is much stronger than bullying, frankly. Why did they carry and switch between two guns including a shotgun if not because that's what you do in a first person shooter? Their choice of weapons, their outfit, actions such as shooting at the bombs and having fun, the plan to kill em all, the berserk in Eric's pocket, all of it very plainly influenced by first person shooters. Literally included Doom and Duke Nukem among the list of things the massacre would resemble, and Doom is probably at worst the second biggest influence to OKC, if not the biggest, even more than Natural Born Killers.  While it may not be the initial reason to wish to go on a killing spree, it seems to me undeniable the massacre would look very different to the point of not happening at all had they never played a video game.  

People just seem to get defensive and think saying x is a motive is the same as saying x forces people to murder.  Can see the same point-and-sputter defenses with blaming lack of success with women. Just seems to me the shock of the crime has them coping by saying they must have been forced to do it by e. g. bullies.

If you hate someone for whatever reason and want them to die, and then read a book about Jack the Ripper, and then because of that your MO is to stab them in an alley way, I think the book alongside the initial reason counts as  a motive. And that doesn't mean one gets to paint that as "banning books will stop murders" as if one cannot cast their own theories in the same uncharitable light like "banning namecalling will stop murders".

I believe what Tommy is trying to say is that a person like Frank DeAngelis isn't really making the distinction between "inspiration" and "directly caused Eric and Dylan to act violently". Most people who blame video games for mass murder are trying to say that violent video games, directly, turn people into murderers. They lack nuance.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Apr 09, 2019 3:45 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Respectfully Tommy, how can you not? The case for that is much stronger than bullying, frankly. Why did they carry and switch between two guns including a shotgun if not because that's what you do in a first person shooter? Their choice of weapons, their outfit, actions such as shooting at the bombs and having fun, the plan to kill em all, the berserk in Eric's pocket, all of it very plainly influenced by first person shooters. Literally included Doom and Duke Nukem among the list of things the massacre would resemble, and Doom is probably at worst the second biggest influence to OKC, if not the biggest, even more than Natural Born Killers.  While it may not be the initial reason to wish to go on a killing spree, it seems to me undeniable the massacre would look very different to the point of not happening at all had they never played a video game.  

People just seem to get defensive and think saying x is a motive is the same as saying x forces people to murder.  Can see the same point-and-sputter defenses with blaming lack of success with women. Just seems to me the shock of the crime has them coping by saying they must have been forced to do it by e. g. bullies.

If you hate someone for whatever reason and want them to die, and then read a book about Jack the Ripper, and then because of that your MO is to stab them in an alley way, I think the book alongside the initial reason counts as  a motive. And that doesn't mean one gets to paint that as "banning books will stop murders" as if one cannot cast their own theories in the same uncharitable light like "banning namecalling will stop murders".

I believe what Tommy is trying to say is that a person like Frank DeAngelis isn't really making the distinction between "inspiration" and "directly caused Eric and Dylan to act violently". Most people who blame video games for mass murder are trying to say that violent video games, directly, turn people into murderers. They lack nuance.
That might be true, and is  a good way to put it. I will row back some of what I said if that was his intention. I'm sure I would have many disagreements with DeAngelis.

Still, I think video games, or perhaps rather the isolation which causes one to be immersed in video games, seems part of the pathology which birthed Columbine. There's not another topic with which I could draw more connections to the massacre. Just the other day, I thought about the way Dylan tossed that molotov cocktail at the cafeteria bombs. It was not the usual way to throw things, almost cocky, and side-armed. I thought about the kind of things Dylan was into, such as Nine Inch Nails. I have to wonder if he was throwing it like an Ogre in Quake.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Apr 09, 2019 7:16 pm

I wonder if Franky DeAngely will have anything to say about Ralph Larkin trashing him (the word "unimpressive" was hilariously used) in "Comprehending Columbine" 12 years ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSun Jun 02, 2019 10:48 pm

@Brad T- I agree with you that the Klebold's and the Harris' should have sued the school for the bullying environment. I graduated from a nearby school that was mentioned in Cullen's book a few years before Dylan and Eric. Bullying was an issue there, but nothing as bad as Columbine. I may read DeAngelis' book just to compare it to the other books out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 1:42 am

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@Brad T- I agree with you that the Klebold's and the Harris' should have sued the school for the bullying environment.

I'm so glad the two of you don't practice law.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 10:16 pm

I think it'd be an interesting read.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 10:53 pm

If we take out the debate of Eric and Dylan being bullied, there’s a lot of stories about pretty severe bullying incidents. I think many of them should’ve been addressed. I look at it like I looked in my school there was a ton of bullying incidents that were not addressed because it was certain types of kids doing it, the oooukst ones...

Something to remember, columbine was the lightning rod. This was the event that made people look at these incidents more so. For those who were old enough to remember it was a huge incident even for people who lived thousands of miles away, we had daily columbine reports. We knew everything about the shooters about the victims the injured. People are not kidding about 24 seven news coverage of the shooting. It was constant. What Eric and Dylan did changed everything. People talk about how many killed etc. this person killed more. It doesn’t matter, columbine is the event that people look to.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Jun 04, 2019 8:19 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If we take out the debate of Eric and Dylan being bullied, there’s a lot of stories about pretty severe bullying incidents. I think many of them should’ve been addressed. I look at it like I looked in my school there was a ton of bullying incidents that were not addressed because it was certain types of kids doing it, the oooukst ones...

Something to remember, columbine was the lightning rod. This was the event that made people look at these incidents more so. For those who were old enough to remember it was a huge incident even for  people who lived thousands of miles away, we had daily columbine reports. We knew everything about the shooters about the victims the injured. People are not kidding about 24 seven  news coverage of the shooting. It was constant. What Eric and Dylan did changed everything. People talk about how many killed etc. this person killed more. It doesn’t matter, columbine is the event that people look to.

This is a link to the report done by Regina Huerter for the Governor's Commission investigation. She interviewed a bunch of kids and parents and details some pretty horrible bullying incidents at Columbine and how they were handled (or not handled) by administration.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeTue Jun 04, 2019 8:52 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If we take out the debate of Eric and Dylan being bullied, there’s a lot of stories about pretty severe bullying incidents. I think many of them should’ve been addressed. I look at it like I looked in my school there was a ton of bullying incidents that were not addressed because it was certain types of kids doing it, the oooukst ones...

Something to remember, columbine was the lightning rod. This was the event that made people look at these incidents more so. For those who were old enough to remember it was a huge incident even for  people who lived thousands of miles away, we had daily columbine reports. We knew everything about the shooters about the victims the injured. People are not kidding about 24 seven  news coverage of the shooting. It was constant. What Eric and Dylan did changed everything. People talk about how many killed etc. this person killed more. It doesn’t matter, columbine is the event that people look to.

This is a link to the report done by Regina Huerter for the Governor's Commission investigation. She interviewed a bunch of kids and parents and details some pretty horrible bullying incidents at Columbine and how they were handled (or not handled) by administration.
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Thank you. Something interesting about bullying in general I want to mention. I have an acquaintance from HS who I see sometimes when I visit home for the holidays. A couple years ago she suggested we grab coffee and she said oh and I can invite “Betty” to come with us. She is really good friends with “Betty” we all went to high school together. She was a huge bully to me and she didn’t remember that. Which is surprising because she was pretty nasty person to me.

It makes you think about people’s memories and perceptions. Which is why I sometimes don’t want to argue about whether or not they were bullying. Because I don’t think it was the main reason that I think the culture made it a toxic environment for many kids.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSun Oct 31, 2021 7:23 am

'They call me Mr D'. I have this in Kindle.

Ive stopped reading too much online, but Ive read a few papers.

Reading too much on the cellphone is not good for your eyes. I dont read much into Columbine anymore. First off all because its not good for my health. But also because there are so many good things in this world that rarely gets the attention, and reading too much on the cellphone isnt good for your eyes. I am currently listening to Dave Cullens and Sue Klebolds books in audio- tape, though.

Its always interesting to get New perspectives, though
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSun Oct 31, 2021 7:30 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
@Brad T- I agree with you that the Klebold's and the Harris' should have sued the school for the bullying environment.

I'm so glad the two of you don't practice law.


We had a few cases here in Norway, where the schools were sued for not preventing bullying and it actually worked. IDK how it works in the US, though. There are groups such as the Bully project, IDK wether they can answer this question better than I do.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2021 10:52 pm

Guest wrote:
No way does it justify them being bullied. I agree with you. People should be able to be themselves regardless if it isn’t what the rest of the group is like. I personally understand this. I was def not the “norm” in my school. I was a 16 yr old junior in high school in 1999. Schools didn’t care about bullying. But it’s not an excuse. What I’ve read so far he says things like “there wasn’t a jock environment” (not exact quote). It’s hard for me to believe. TONS of high schools were jock driven. They never got in trouble, they ran the school.

The school isn’t the only place to blame, but I thought after 20 years maybe his story would surface a bit differently. Maybe the ending will have more insight? I doubt it, but I will get through the book just to be sure.
If anyone should be "running" the school, it should be the smart ones; not a bunch of kids who throw a da** football.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2021 10:55 pm

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SenSpiritedAway wrote:
I started to read this book when it popped up on my hoopla reading app. I glossed over much of it. IMO it seemed very forced (but maybe that’s just me). Without giving away anything it seemed like he always felt like a father figure to the students but doesn’t show that same feeling to Dylan and Eric. I totally get it, I mean they did a horrific act, but in the same sense he didn’t come across as someone who felt that they even belonged there. Like they were never part of the student body.  I don’t know when I’ll finish it. Not in my top list of Columbine books.

To be honest with you I get that vibe from other students too.  Devon talks about it, she accepted Dylan of course because they were friends but she does talk about how they didn’t really belong. And Evan Todd did too.

And I guarantee you, not to sound like an armchair psychologist, but Eric and Dylan probably picked up on the vibe too! Which is why I actually really appreciated it when Sue and Tom said that maybe Dylan and Zach should do some volunteer work around the school so they can feel more connected to their peers instead of alienating
Evan Todd was aprt of the bullying problem and he didn't give a sh*t what mental damage he did to his victims.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2021 10:58 pm

Those kids were way spoiled too, what kind of parent buys their kid a $100,000 dollar Hummer? Please explain that to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2021 12:13 am

I dont agree that kids should run the school at all. The problem is that bullies doesnt fall into one category. You can be the brightest person in the world and still bully people. I dont think it has so much to do with IQ, but much more to do with everything from personal problems or learned behaviour to a potential for developing Antisocial Personality disorder later in life.

They dont fit into a specific 'category'
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2021 8:55 pm

Also, as far as Evan Todd saying they didn't belong, who was that fat f**k to say where they belonged? Columbine was their school too.

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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2021 9:31 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Also, as far as Evan Todd saying they didn't belong, who was that fat f**k to say where they belonged? Columbine was their school too.

I dont think he did specify that as a reference to Eric and Dylan. I did hear him argue he felt misrepresented after the tragedy. Ill make sure to put the podcast episode out if I find it. Not really sure wether this was something he just said, given the circumstances of the situation or he actually stood behind those words.

He did tell the gunmen that he had been nice to them, though, but again, I feel like context matters.
It probably was the most traumatic event in the entire life for people at that school that day.
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PostSubject: Re: Frank DeAngelis releasing a book   Frank DeAngelis releasing a book Icon_minitimeMon Nov 22, 2021 2:40 pm

Let's face it. How on earth can one person, even the head of the school have any clue what was or is going on in the real world of day to day life in that building??

It would be impossible!

Nobody went to the Head Teacher, Teachers, Parents, OR EVEN FRIENDS to complain or ask for help with being bullied.

Columbine High School was, & is MASSIVE. So many students. Such a variety of class amongst piers.

The whole system was, and is fooked!

Every so often, someone is going to flip. No way can you blame that on "The Head Principal" that should know exactly what's going on.

40% of the Students probably saw Mr. Sanders as being an out of touch Dork back then in 1997/98/99

Eric & Dylan both loved their parents and spoke highly of them. Da frig is Frank DeAngelis gonna possibly do/have done?

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