Interesting thread on Jason the Columbine bully

I read about him. A couple of students after columbine went downhill on their own accord and it's tragic. Couple of which dabbled in hard drugs.

I can't get to the site....anyone paraphrase?

Quote :

I've taken the liberty of copying and pasting part of an oprah.com webpage that features an article about the A&E TV series Intervention. Earlier this evening I had read a post in the forum of another website that mentioned the case of a former Columbine "jock" who had attended that high school when the massacre was perpetrated. Since you can read the quotation for yourself, I'll just say that this sad case presents a particular human dimension to bullying. Some people wrongly say that bullying builds character. Actually, it often destroys the character of the bully, as well as the character of the bullied.

I've quoted the first three paragraphs of this webpage article below.

"Divine Intervention
Oprah.com

Addictions have the power to rip families apart, ruin lives and, in some cases, end a person's life. When it comes to addiction, Oprah says it seems that everyone is struggling with something.

Over the past five years, addicts have exposed their dependencies to shopping, food, sex, pills, gambling, rage, alcohol, heroin and more on A&E's gripping series Intervention. Each week, millions tune in to see the life-and-death situations these addicts find themselves in and watch as the people who love them tackle the issues head-on. Each episode ends with a dramatic, last-chance confrontationâ??supervised by an interventionistâ??and the chance to go to a free, inpatient treatment facility for 90 days.

Since its premiere, Intervention has become more than a hit TV show. Producers say 77 percent of people they've confronted on camera are clean today.


The last ten paragraphs are quoted here.

When A&E cameras began following Jason, an addict from Littleton, Colorado, he was injecting heroin and cocaine into his body up to eight times a day. To support his habit, Jason panhandled on the street or borrowed money from his devoted parents, Gerry and Kathy, and his sister.

There was a time, however, when Kathy thought of her son as the perfect child and the love of her life. As a student at Columbine High School, Jason was a star athlete who ran with the "cool" crowd. Though he experimented with marijuana and cocaine during his teenage years, his downward spiral didn't begin until 10 months after he finished his senior year of high school.

On April 20, 1999, students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold embarked on a massacre at Jason's high school. Twelve of his former classmates and one teacher were murdered during this cold, calculated attack.

"A big reason for their rebellion was because of the jocks in '98, saying that we picked on them and that we were bullies," Jason said. "I know I was a bully in high school."

Wracked with sadness, shame and guilt, Jason amped up his drug use and sank deeper into addiction.

Then, after years of worrying about Jason's safety, his family teamed up with Jeff VanVonderen, one of A&E's intervention specialists, to convince Jason to enter a drug treatment facility. He agreed.

Jason is now 11 months sober. As he looks back at his intervention, he says he's finally able to feel the love his family shared.

"Right now is actually the first time that I've actually really broken down and started really feeling my emotions ," he says. "I've never really taken it to heart and soul, especially when they did my intervention. I was so high that I couldn't cry or express any kind of emotion."

Jason is also starting to open up about what happened during his high school years instead of hiding behind drugs. "I didn't know [the Columbine shooters] personally. But, to be honest, I did pick on them, and we knew who they were," he says. "They were the outcasts of Columbine High School."

Now, Jason says he uses his pain and his past to motivate him to stay clean. "I don't want to bring myself to that low again or hurt myself or hurt my family or anybody around me again," he says.

Within the next year, Jason hopes to become a diving instructor. "It gives me my own high of excitement and learning," he says."


Jason had a conscience, which eventually caught up with him and enabled him to feel guilt. Sadly, he had to learn a moral lesson the hard way. I wish him well in his endeavors.

This guy apparently was friends with that Rocky dude, we infamously know for being one of the most notorious jocks/bullies. It's a whole thing about the bullies then feeling guilty and responsible for picking on the outcasts, particularly E&D for Jason that caused the massacre.

Thank you!!

I have read some accounts from people in the 11k that express some remorse for picking on them. And others that just really don't care. One guy who was on one of the SHIT lists says...something like "yea I picked on them, they sucked and deserved it"

Nice mentality some people have

Rocky didn't seem affected at all about the massacre which goes to show what kind of a person he really is. I guess some people just never learn.

I dislike bullies as much as the next person and am in total agreement that Columbine obviously did have an issue with bullying that affected a fair few amount of students, but let's not forget that Dylan and Eric both admitted that they bullied people, too (Dylan admitting this as far back as early '97 in his journal). Dylan also harassed and threatened special needs student Adam Kyler, but I notice that people like to view Eric and Dylan in a purely sympathetic light (i.e. the whole "those bullies who picked on them have blood on their hands" mentality).

I also think people get so stuck on the idea that bullying was the overall cause of what happened at Columbine, whereas it was likely a number of factors coming together that motivated Eric and Dylan to do what they did (their own issues with their perceived inferiority being quite a significant factor imo).

Again, I want to reiterate that I despise bullying and think it 100% needs to be addressed in schools, but Eric and Dylan could also dish it out and certainly weren't exactly angels themselves in high school. You only need to read the 11k to see that there are also reports of them treating other people in an unkind manner.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] yup you are right, i agree with you, i hope by now most people have established the exact same sentiment.

The question that raises is if they hadn't been bullied and ostracized so badly in the first place would they have ever become angry and hopeless enough to start on the path to wanting to do this?
You can say well, they were mentally ill so yes they would have but if they had been accepted and like by more of their classmates and had not felt so alienated would their mental illnesses have been triggered?
We really have nothing to say that their illness was genetic.Maybe it was environmental.
Nobody can prove this now but I think it's as valid as the view that they would have done this no matter what.

So if Adam Kyler had gone on a shooting spree and killed innocent people because Dylan taunted and threatened him, would you insinuate that the blame would lie with Dylan, as Dylan was a bully himself?

We don't even know the actual extent of which Eric and Dylan were bullied. We do know that there are reports they were bullied, but we also know they bullied others, too. Dylan and Eric also came from good homes and had friends. Eric even dated. More than what a lot of teens had growing up. No, they weren't the athletes who had girls flocking to them, but most of us in high school weren't, anyway. Just because you feel like you're near the bottom of the social totem pole, is that really an excuse to lash out at others?

Like I said, I'm sick of people with their head in the sand who claim bullying was the overall cause for Columbine and essentially absolve the boys from blame and responsibility for their personal decisions.

You do realise people can do shitty things without been driven to do them by others, right? There are other mass shooters who weren't even bullied but simply just felt like outsiders due to their own feelings of inadequacy and were mentally ill.

Yeah, could be if that had been what happened .I believe they were definitely bullied and ostracized.There is enough evidence all around from what they themselves said to what others said who knew them well to what people who knew them only casually said to support that.I don't have my head stuck in the sand.I just see every aspect of this totally differently than you do. No, I don't think its right to lash out at others.Almost nobody here has said what they did is right.
Only a small minority of people think that.
I don't think there are justification for what they did but there are reasons it happened.I just don't agree that it was only their craziness and pure evilness that is the only explanation.You can call that making excuses but I call it the truth as I truly believe it.
I mean if you think about it,if there is nothing more to E &D than being pure evil and insane and the only factor in why they did was they did was the fact that they were totally crazy and utterly evil, is there really anything much to talk about?

Yeah.I know there are shooters that haven't been bullied but the majority of shooters have been bullied and ostracized.Popular, happy, well adjusted people don't tend to go off the edge like this too much although yes,I know it has happened.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Yeah, could be if that had been what happened .I believe they were definitely bullied and ostracized.There is enough evidence all around from what they themselves said to what others said who knew them well to what people who knew them only casually said to support that.

I'm not disputing the fact that they may have been bullied, just simply pointing out that we don't actually know the degree of bullying they were subjected to and if it was even any more worse than the bullying they did to others.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I don't have my head stuck in the sand.I just see every aspect of this totally differently than you do.

Yes, you (like many other sympathizers) seem to have a tunnel vision on the subject of bullying as far as Columbine is concerned. Yes, I think bullying is still a massive problem in society, and I abhor any bullying that Eric and Dylan were subjected to or partook in themselves, but I don't actually think it was as much of a massive driving factor for the massacre than what most people like to believe. Interesting that even Dylan's own mother picked up on the fact that Dylan was grasping for reasons for his "revenge" by even blaming distant family whom none of the family had much to do with.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I just don't agree that it was only their craziness and pure evilness that is the only explanation.You can call that making excuses but I call it the truth as I truly believe it.
I mean if you think about it,if there is nothing more to E &D than being pure evil and insane and the only factor in why they did was they did was the fact that they were totally crazy and utterly evil, is there really anything much to talk about?

I wouldn't even dismiss it as that. I feel like there were a lot of different aspects that contributed to what Eric and Dylan did. I think their entitled, emotionally immature attitude towards life unfortunately gets overlooked a lot of the time. Same issue with Elliot Rodger. Privileged, disturbed boy with narcissistic traits who was angry at the world for his own shortcomings.

PaintItBlack wrote:

I know there are shooters that haven't been bullied but the majority of shooters have been bullied and ostracized.Popular, happy, well adjusted people don't tend to go off the edge like this too much although yes,I know it has happened.

And do you believe it's their peers' fault that they weren't popular, well-adjusted and happy people? Funny thing is that Eric moaned about being at the bottom of the "food chain" in high school, yet he frequently detailed his distaste for a lot of things that were popular amongst his peers (he even loathed mainstream music). In some ways, Eric and Dylan actually revelled in being different to their peers and "better than the zombies" because they had "self-awareness" etc. And as I said before, not everyone will be the popular in high school, anyway. Most people won't.

Fair enough.If I have tunnel vision, its because I truly believe that the bullying and ostracization was the foundation of the whole thing.
If they had not been bullied and ostracized ,I don't think they would have started down this road.
Anyone can disagree with me.That's fine.But that's what I truly believe.

I do think they were immature and self centered and selfish.To go through with this sort of thing,I think you pretty much have to be because obviously you are mainly thinking of your own pain, your rage, your desire for revenge.I've heard people describe suicides alone in much the same terms.That the person was only thinking of their own pain and ending it, not the grief and trauma of anyone left behind.I can't say that I agree 100% with that line of thinking though.

As far as their peers go, I think its yes and no.And the fault lies in different degrees at different times.I think that whole area is very conformist and not that open minded.People who don't fit in or are really outside the mainstream seem scorned and looked down on.E &D haven't been the only people who went to school there or lived in the area to ever complain of this.If more people had tried to understand why E &D were different,understand what they were into and why, where they were coming from instead of just scorning and looking down on them for it, it may have made a difference at least in the beginning.Later on, they did develop a hostile attitude with certain kinds of people which no doubt turned some off.

Eric and Dylan probably believed what they said to and extent but I do wonder how much of their God like attitude developed as a coping mechanism after being looked down on for so long.People do this all the time.For example after being dumped, telling everyone "I was way too good for him/her anyway."It is obvious to me from their writings that even close to their deaths, both still had low self esteem at least in some ways.

I appreciate your response but I guess we just have differing views. I must admit that it does annoy me that you seem hell-bent on portraying Eric and Dylan in a sympathetic light all the time considering they engaged in the very same behaviour you believe was the ultimate reason behind the massacre.

And while I understand you trying to draw comparisons between someone taking their own life and what Dylan and Eric did, there's obviously a massive difference between someone who commits suicide and someone who intends to kill as many people as they can before killing themselves.

bubbles wrote:

I appreciate your response but I guess we just have differing views. I must admit that it does annoy me that you seem hell-bent on portraying Eric and Dylan in a sympathetic light all the time considering they engaged in the very same behaviour you believe was the ultimate reason behind the massacre.

And while I understand you trying to draw comparisons between someone taking their own life and what Dylan and Eric did, there's obviously a massive difference between someone who commits suicide and someone who intends to kill as many people as they can before killing themselves.

I understand that my defense of them annoys you and you must feel strongly about this whole thing to come back and post even though its probably not as important or as big of a part of your life as it is of mine.
All I can say is that in a community like this where people have spent a lot of time, effort and emotion into discussing this and it often playing a big part in their lives, most people are going to have some degree of sympathy for E &D .
Or at least that's what I've seen.
Now some long time posters don't and never will but I don't think I'm off the mark in saying that.
I'm not the only Columbiner here but I am the most visible and vocal one here so I'm of course going to annoy someone with your outlook.
It's not intentional, just two different"worlds" colliding I suppose.I think the one thing I could see eye to eye with you on is the boys should be equal.I think they both deserve equal amounts of care, sympathy and understanding.Or like you believe neither one deserves any.
The whole feeling sorry for Dylan being a good kid led astray by evil bad seed Eric so DK deserves sympathy while EH does not is a view I don't think I'll ever personally understand.


I don't justify any bullying E &D did either but its just a fact the the bullied often then turn around and do it to someone else. That can never make it right but I've seen it happen before myself.
I do believe they were a lot more bullied than bullying but others will disagree.

Yes, there is a huge difference between only killing yourself, then killing others then yourself in this kind of attack, no doubt but I think there are enough parallels between the pure suicidal ideation involved to bring it up.
And while attacks like E &D's are still relatively rare, unfortunately murder suicides where someone kills their whole family and themselves are not that rare anymore.It seems like you hear about one every week.

Welp, I guess it's just a sad fact of life that many people will ultimately see Eric and Dylan as the poor, helpless victims who "fought back". It's even more sad that copycats have and probably will continue to use the flimsy pretext of "fighting back against bullies and society" when they go on a homicidal rampage because they're angry at the world.

You only need to read some of these comments on this video to see how the "fighting back" excuse is really unhealthy.

Some of these Eric and Dylan apologists are so dense that you almost wish you could just shake some sense into them (not referring to you PaintItBlack, just the other commenters I've seen).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "I just don't agree that it was only their craziness and pure evilness that is the only explanation"
I/We never ever said that was the only reason why Columbine happened. Let alone, Bullying also wasn't the only reason.
Is it so hard to grasp that it's possibly both reasons, AND more? Like society? Like the way they were mentally structured? Self-awareness? Throughout this forum so many factors contributed to Columbine.

The bullying was definitely a trigger, it easily prompted their insecurity, however they always had the freedom to fight back and stand up for themselves if they wanted to. In retaliation they bullied others just to feel a little better. BUT, Eric and Dylan as individuals wanted to kill on their own accord.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just don't agree that it was only their craziness and pure evilness that is the only explanation.You can call that making excuses but I call it the truth as I truly believe it.
I mean if you think about it,if there is nothing more to E &D than being pure evil and insane and the only factor in why they did was they did was the fact that they were totally crazy and utterly evil, is there really anything much to talk about?

I wouldn't even dismiss it as that. I feel like there were a lot of different aspects that contributed to what Eric and Dylan did. I think their entitled, emotionally immature attitude towards life unfortunately gets overlooked a lot of the time. Same issue with Elliot Rodger. Privileged, disturbed boy with narcissistic traits who was angry at the world for his own shortcomings.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know there are shooters that haven't been bullied but the majority of shooters have been bullied and ostracized.Popular, happy, well adjusted people don't tend to go off the edge like this too much although yes,I know it has happened.

And do you believe it's their peers' fault that they weren't popular, well-adjusted and happy people? Funny thing is that Eric moaned about being at the bottom of the "food chain" in high school, yet he frequently detailed his distaste for a lot of things that were popular amongst his peers (he even loathed mainstream music). In some ways, Eric and Dylan actually revelled in being different to their peers and "better than the zombies" because they had "self-awareness" etc. And as I said before, not everyone will be the popular in high school, anyway. Most people won't.

Thank you very much bubbles extremely well put.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "If I have tunnel vision, its because I truly believe that the bullying and ostracization was the foundation of the whole thing." Nah...that's really hard to say. I won't exclude that though. But what about Eric's constant moving, what about Dylan before he met Eric? He was always an insecure hopeless romantic, he was always depressed. Remember when Dylan thought NBK first? and Eric was just a normal kid who managed to get by?

You need to understand how their mindset was extremely contradictory. They were indeed outcasts and picked on for being different but eventually they got off on it, in fact they liked it and went out of their way to be different.
"We used to hate people. Now we just make fun of them. It's more effective that way." - Dogma, KMFDM.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "I think that whole area is very conformist and not that open minded.People who don't fit in or are really outside the mainstream seem scorned and looked down on.E &D haven't been the only people who went to school there or lived in the area to ever complain of this.If more people had tried to understand why E &D were different,understand what they were into and why, where they were coming from instead of just scorning and looking down on them for it, it may have made a difference at least in the beginning." Yup. exactly, and this is where it's society's fault. not bullying.

So see, many factors. We aren't settling on one.

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "I  just don't agree that it was only their craziness and pure evilness that is the only explanation"
I/We never ever said that was the only reason why Columbine happened. Let alone, Bullying also wasn't the only reason.
Is it so hard to grasp that it's possibly both reasons, AND more? Like society? Like the way they were mentally structured? Self-awareness? Throughout this forum so many factors contributed to Columbine.

The bullying was definitely a trigger, it easily prompted their insecurity, however they always had the freedom to fight back and stand up for themselves if they wanted to. In retaliation they bullied others just to feel a little better. BUT, Eric and Dylan as individuals wanted to kill on their own accord.

The whole point I was trying to make is that I do not believe that E &D were fated to kill or natural born killers or whatever and if a few things had been different in their lives and in their school/social experience, their mental illness could have very possibly never been triggered and they could very well have never started down the path to doing this.I think there are many reasons that tie into all that above that lead to them wanting to kill.

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "If I have tunnel vision, its because I truly believe that the bullying and ostracization was the foundation of the whole thing." Nah...that's really hard to say. I won't exclude that though. But what about Eric's constant moving, what about Dylan before he met Eric? He was always an insecure hopeless romantic, he was always depressed. Remember when Dylan thought NBK first? and Eric was just a normal kid who managed to get by?

You need to understand how their mindset was extremely contradictory. They were indeed outcasts and picked on for being different but eventually they got off on it, in fact they liked it and went out of their way to be different.
"We used to hate people. Now we just make fun of them. It's more effective that way." - Dogma, KMFDM.

I do understand that and no doubt they were affected deeply by their early lives especially Eric.
I think he was always a very sensitive kid and didn't have the emotional resilience to bounce back to being moved around like his brother did.

Yes, that becomes kind of a coping mechanism.Such as you think I'm a freak?I'll show you just how freaky I really am kind of mindset.