Did Eric Really Want His Journal Read VS Dylan's Wiped Hard Disk

As a starter, If anyone has the root source surrounding the fact that Dylan erased a hard disk from his computer do share. I have looked up various reports on it which can be found online.
I guess my question is, How did we eventually come down to the general consensus that Eric had been writing, or rather started writing for an audience? Is it safe to say he made the choice of jotting down the last period of his life in account for himself BUT along the way decided that someone or a group of people should get their hands on it and read it? And is it through the change of tone in his writings, deliberate information of planning and how he felt that explains that? And if so, - those who are expert at analysing psychology -, WHY do you guys think he wanted us to read it?
Secondly, is it a full scan of all Eric's entries or just a portion of it?
And through another contrast of the two, Dylan on the other hand adamantly stood by his privacy and hardly wrote anything down for anyone who might see it, excluding his poetry and deeper romantic thoughts that we have read. Later on, we came to find out that Dylan had significantly erased an entire hard disk on his computer "erased his hard drive in such a manner that investigators were never able to surface its contents". What does that say on him and, how much have we speculated what was on it?

Both boys had such telling opposite dynamic that I am confused as to whether both of their actions on leaving traces of personal info/possible evidence were deliberate. What do you guys think?

excerpt:

Quote :

They pored over e-mail among Harris and Klebold and friends. Most of the writings spoke only of teen-age concerns. Girls. Games. Television shows.

The investigators scrutinized Web postings and other writings — some from Harris’ computer — promising more death on April 26, a threat that never materialized.

Unlike Harris’ computer, Klebold’s offered no help.

Investigators concluded that Klebold had gutted the machine, erasing one of the two hard drives, leaving it blank.

“I can’t prove it,” Davis says. “But deep down in my heart, I think it was probably nuked either the day before, or that morning.”

What did Klebold have to hide?

“We’ll just never know,” Davis says.

Gay pornography would be my guess.

I don't think we will ever really know if ALL of Eric's journals/writings were released to us by JeffCo, I would surmise that probably there is quite a bit we haven't seen (and never will).

It would be fascinating to be able to look though at what we have and see if someone experienced enough in this type of analysis (as you suggest) could determine approximately when this seismic shift occurred between Eric writing for himself and then for an indeterminate "audience." If I ever get a chance to get all his stuff in chronological order, I may take a stab at it myself sometime.

Draw_It_White wrote:

Gay pornography would be my guess.

Oh, I have to disagree here with you. I think Dylan did destroy his hard drive because of porn, but I think perhaps it was bondage/S&M/fetish stuff, not necessarily gay porn. I never got the impression (though perhaps the deluded Cullen would have hoped for) that Dylan had any homosexual tendencies.

I have read the porn speculation many times. I guess you guys are serious? Initially I chuckled too and maybe it is something as mundane as that, prolly just a bunch of fetishes he'd be afraid to be judged for....even AFTER death. I really wonder if there's more. Perhaps something about his friends or the massacre.
And would it be his own decision to wipe it out or maybe Eric suggested him to?

ThoughtBox wrote:

I don't think we will ever really know if ALL of Eric's journals/writings were released to us by JeffCo, I would surmise that probably there is quite a bit we haven't seen (and never will).

It would be fascinating to be able to look though at what we have and see if someone experienced enough in this type of analysis (as you suggest) could determine approximately when this seismic shift occurred between Eric writing for himself and then for an indeterminate "audience." If I ever get a chance to get all his stuff in chronological order, I may take a stab at it myself sometime.

So do I. I don't think it's in full either, JeffCo must've significantly picked the ones that are relevant but I kinda wanna read all of it. Is it safe to say they've dispose of it as evidence or not and have kept somewhere like untouched gem?

What fascinates me and I wanna understand is that both of them have done the exact opposite on leaving stuff behind before death. And it's either just a portrayal of their personalities or they decided on, for Eric's case, leaving his journal out in the open, the "Clue" on the poster, etc, while for Dylan he hid things, and then finally make cease of his files.

I don't think Eric knew how to wipe his own hard-drive - or if he did, he didn't know how to erase as much content as Dylan.

Ivan wrote:

I don't think Eric knew how to wipe his own hard-drive - or if he did, he didn't know how to erase as much content as Dylan.

ah? Interesting....
That'd be surprising, Eric seemed IT-savvy as Dyl.

liquorvamp wrote:

I have read the porn speculation many times. I guess you guys are serious? Initially I chuckled too and maybe it is something as mundane as that, prolly just a bunch of fetishes he'd be afraid to be judged for....even AFTER death. I really wonder if there's more. Perhaps something about his friends or the massacre.
And would it be his own decision to wipe it out or maybe Eric suggested him to?

I can't see what he'd want rid of if it was related to the massacre.

Draw_It_White wrote:

I can't see what he'd want rid of if it was related to the massacre.

Names
More tapes of incriminating confessions/videos of people
Voyeur-like shots of probable targets
How Tos/Beginner's Guides

All those things were available in other formats though - journals, basement tapes etc.

ThoughtBox wrote:

I don't think we will ever really know if ALL of Eric's journals/writings were released to us by JeffCo, I would surmise that probably there is quite a bit we haven't seen (and never will).

This was my initial thought as well. Is there any plausible evidence that has ever suggested we have the full version of either journal? It's always tricky business trying to research/analyze the journals because we don't know if we're missing pieces of their thoughts or not.

liquorvamp wrote:

What fascinates me and I wanna understand is that both of them have done the exact opposite on leaving stuff behind before death. And it's either just a portrayal of their personalities or they decided on, for Eric's case, leaving his journal out in the open, the "Clue" on the poster, etc, while for Dylan he hid things, and then finally make cease of his files.

I honestly think it may boil down to just that -- a difference in personality or a difference in addressing the feelings regarding their impending mission of death and destruction. They could have also differed in opinion as to the "sanctity" of record-keeping. As we know from Sue, Dylan's "journal" was allegedly just a collection of individual papers strewn about, on which he happened to write his thoughts. If that was the case, I can only imagine that he didn't destroy these as well just due to the effort it may have taken to re-locate and gather the physical papers. Perhaps he had other similar writings in the form of digital documents on his computer, like Eric did? Those he may have wiped simply because it was easier. I also tend to side with people who argue that it was attempt to obliterate a hefty and/or disturbing porn collection. It's clear from the few times he mentions pornography/his fetishes, ect. that he attaches quite a bit of shame to his compulsions and even goes so far as to extract himself entirely by saying "his humanity" has these likings, not he himself. He talks about it in a very confessional-esque way. I don't think it would be a stretch to say he wiped the HD simply because of porn, (perhaps to "absolve" himself, or out of sheer shame) though I think it was likely a combination of porn and other, perhaps more detailed journal entries, and to a lesser extent maybe bomb/weapon/self-harm guides.

However, I don't find it likely that the HD wipe was to conceal others who may have been involved or who had had prior knowledge. We see from the Basement Tape transcripts and parts of Eric's writings that E&D have a very poor comprehension of how horrifically their actions are about to affect those close to them. They don't go to any great lengths to hide the names of the people who provided the guns, nor do they grasp the fact that there is no simple disclaimer they can say that will prevent legal action against friends and family. I find it unlikely that Dylan would think to wipe his HD in effort to protect these people, when he and Eric were so flippant and sloppy about it otherwise.

As for Eric, I can't speak to there being a concrete turning point in his writing that I know of, but overall I got the sense that this was someone posturing, but at the same time, screaming silently to be heard, someone who relished in almost getting caught, but was also endlessly frustrated that he didn't. Eric asked for help, was candid about his problems at least part of the time, when prompted. There exist numerous excepts that I think make it clear he wanted his material to be viewed by an audience, or at the very least, he wanted his family to see it. After purchasing the guns, he writes about how the gun show would have been a good bonding experience for him and his dad, ending with a snide "oh well." We know he left a microcassette tape for presumably his family to find before leaving the morning of. Elsewhere in his journal he muses if a book will be written about him. In another excerpt he says "and the majority of the audience wont even understand my motives either! they'll say "ah, hes crazy, hes insane, oh well, I wonder if the bulls won." Yet another states "someones bound to say "what were they thinking?" when we go NBK or when we were planning it, so this what I am thinking..."

liquorvamp wrote:

WHY do you guys think he wanted us to read it?

I think for Eric, the fact that no one around him was sharp enough to catch him, knowledgable to dig deep enough to really help with his issues, even after very obvious mistakes on his part, became fodder for his hatred of mankind and its collective "stupidity". The fact that he was overlooked socially, familially, and psychologically gave him something to further rail against; he felt he was going unnoticed and disregarded in all aspects of life, but because he could lie effectively in these settings, he did so in order to feel like he had control over something. He was fully aware of how far-reaching the events at Columbine would be; he hated and hurt deeply, even though a lot of his journal is intentionally inflammatory embellishments, I think he ultimately wanted the world to know that he was not okay, and wanted anyone reading to shoulder the blame and guilt for letting him get to the point that he did. All in all, E&D are such an interesting dichotomy because they were both manipulative in very different ways. All of Dylan's negativity is completely from within himself. The blame / guilt for his state of mind is something he put squarely on himself, which is why he was so fiercely secretive with his true thoughts. Destroying his HD was perhaps more a cathartic measure than anything else. Eric knew that people were failing him (or his expectations) consistently and I think wanted them to know that he was making them pay for it. Or, his one last act of control was to shape how people forever viewed the event in hindsight, whether factual or not.

oh my god I did not mean to post something this long!!

I think Eric did want to leave a legacy (not only being known simply as a killer) in spite of his short life (in a material matter such as his journals, the wads he had created for DOOM, etc.) and he was desperate to make a certain impression on the world and not be 'translucent' or like any other mass murderer. Dylan was a really private guy, thus his successful concealment of his issues, thoughts, depression, frustration, and all the other things he was dealing with. I'm surprised he didn't get rid of his notes. Maybe he forgot about them? As far as him erasing his hard drive, I don't really believe there was anything there other than conversations and visited websites. I think it was just another thing he decided to do to not be so exposed after his death. His parents had no clue about his personality and his life in general.
Eric most of the time wrote in his journal the way that would make him look like a crazed, determined, and tough guy. He wanted this to be published and read by the world. It worked and it's too bad for his family.

liquorvamp wrote:

Ivan wrote:

I don't think Eric knew how to wipe his own hard-drive - or if he did, he didn't know how to erase as much content as Dylan.

ah? Interesting....
That'd be surprising, Eric seemed IT-savvy as Dyl.

Eric used 90's "build-your-own-website" filters for his websites. I have to give Eric a little bit of credit and say that the GIFs he had up at the time were very impressive for the 90's, but his website wasn't super flash.

I think computers may have not been a passion for him as long as Dylan. I think he got into them in perhaps his freshman year at Columbine - before then he seemed to be just like every other kid.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Oh girl, too long? It's perfect! I'm gonna have to go through that again cause it was excellent.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Ivan wrote:

Eric used 90's "build-your-own-website" filters for his websites. I have to give Eric a little bit of credit and say that the GIFs he had up at the time were very impressive for the 90's, but his website wasn't super flash.

I think computers may have not been a passion for him as long as Dylan. I think he got into them in perhaps his freshman year at Columbine - before then he seemed to be just like every other kid.

Oh thank you...good to know. I guess so. And if I'm not wrong idk who said it or I read it that Dylan was good and had built his own, idk computer? Or something inside a computer like he built his own things. With knowledge like that won't be surprising he could wipe clean a drive.

Vii wrote:

I think Eric did want to leave a legacy (not only being known simply as a killer) in spite of his short life (in a material matter such as his journals, the wads he had created for DOOM, etc.) and he was desperate to make a certain impression on the world and not be 'translucent' or like any other mass murderer. Dylan was a really private guy, thus his successful concealment of his issues, thoughts, depression, frustration, and all the other things he was dealing with. I'm surprised he didn't get rid of his notes. Maybe he forgot about them? As far as him erasing his hard drive, I don't really believe there was anything there other than conversations and visited websites. I think it was just another thing he decided to do to not be so exposed after his death. His parents had no clue about his personality and his life in general.

Good point. And yeah agreed, what Dylan did, reminds me of me. His parents never really knew him actually...

Pipistrelle wrote:

I honestly think it may boil down to just that -- a difference in personality or a difference in addressing the feelings regarding their impending mission of death and destruction. They could have also differed in opinion as to the "sanctity" of record-keeping. As we know from Sue, Dylan's "journal" was allegedly just a collection of individual papers strewn about, on which he happened to write his thoughts. If that was the case, I can only imagine that he didn't destroy these as well just due to the effort it may have taken to re-locate and gather the physical papers. Perhaps he had other similar writings in the form of digital documents on his computer, like Eric did? Those he may have wiped simply because it was easier. I also tend to side with people who argue that it was attempt to obliterate a hefty and/or disturbing porn collection. It's clear from the few times he mentions pornography/his fetishes, ect. that he attaches quite a bit of shame to his compulsions and even goes so far as to extract himself entirely by saying "his humanity" has these likings, not he himself. He talks about it in a very confessional-esque way. I don't think it would be a stretch to say he wiped the HD simply because of porn, (perhaps to "absolve" himself, or out of sheer shame) though I think it was likely a combination of porn and other, perhaps more detailed journal entries, and to a lesser extent maybe bomb/weapon/self-harm guides.

However, I don't find it likely that the HD wipe was to conceal others who may have been involved or who had had prior knowledge. We see from the Basement Tape transcripts and parts of Eric's writings that E&D have a very poor comprehension of how horrifically their actions are about to affect those close to them. They don't go to any great lengths to hide the names of the people who provided the guns, nor do they grasp the fact that there is no simple disclaimer they can say that will prevent legal action against friends and family. I find it unlikely that Dylan would think to wipe his HD in effort to protect these people, when he and Eric were so flippant and sloppy about it otherwise.

As for Eric, I can't speak to there being a concrete turning point in his writing that I know of, but overall I got the sense that this was someone posturing, but at the same time, screaming silently to be heard, someone who relished in almost getting caught, but was also endlessly frustrated that he didn't. Eric asked for help, was candid about his problems at least part of the time, when prompted. There exist numerous excepts that I think make it clear he wanted his material to be viewed by an audience, or at the very least, he wanted his family to see it. After purchasing the guns, he writes about how the gun show would have been a good bonding experience for him and his dad, ending with a snide "oh well." We know he left a microcassette tape for presumably his family to find before leaving the morning of. Elsewhere in his journal he muses if a book will be written about him. In another excerpt he says "and the majority of the audience wont even understand my motives either! they'll say "ah, hes crazy, hes insane, oh well, I wonder if the bulls won." Yet another states "someones bound to say "what were they thinking?" when we go NBK or when we were planning it, so this what I am thinking..."

Urgh it just gets fascinating and yet sad! I stand by Eric's ever so constant silent screams of help. And once again showing his thorough habits, delicately left behind all these things.

Pipistrelle wrote:

The fact that he was overlooked socially, familially, and psychologically gave him something to further rail against; he felt he was going unnoticed and disregarded in all aspects of life, but because he could lie effectively in these settings, he did so in order to feel like he had control over something. He was fully aware of how far-reaching the events at Columbine would be; he hated and hurt deeply, even though a lot of his journal is intentionally inflammatory embellishments, I think he ultimately wanted the world to know that he was not okay, and wanted anyone reading to shoulder the blame and guilt for letting him get to the point that he did.

And you know in a way it's like he wants to teach us, to do us a favor and make sure the next person we love/someone we know won't end up like him and to ensure it never happens again. He had to kill and die to leave behind this morbid legacy/lesson.

Pipistrelle wrote:

All in all, E&D are such an interesting dichotomy because they were both manipulative in very different ways. All of Dylan's negativity is completely from within himself. The blame / guilt for his state of mind is something he put squarely on himself, which is why he was so fiercely secretive with his true thoughts. Destroying his HD was perhaps more a cathartic measure than anything else. Eric knew that people were failing him (or his expectations) consistently and I think wanted them to know that he was making them pay for it. Or, his one last act of control was to shape how people forever viewed the event in hindsight, whether factual or not.

Cherry on top!

liquorvamp wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Oh girl, too long? It's perfect! I'm gonna have to go through that again cause it was excellent.

Ahh! Thank you! Glad that my dissertation was worth it!  

liquorvamp wrote:

Urgh it just gets fascinating and yet sad! I stand by Eric's ever so constant silent screams of help. And once again showing his thorough habits, delicately left behind all these things.

Yes, file under Things-I-Wanted-To-Address-But-My-Post-Was-Gigantic. I don't usually like to simplify E&D in the "Ying and Yang" sense, but here I think it kind of applies. In the twilight of his life, Dylan by most accounts was pretty lazy. In fact, plenty of people speculate that he and Eric made such a destructive team because Eric was so much more adept at organizing, getting things done and realizing goals, (however morbid they might be). Eric "celebrated" at numerous point in the process, their acquiring of guns, the success of their pipe bombs, ect. These were milestones for him, so I'm sure he would have felt very reluctant to destroy records of such "achievements". Dylan, on the other hand talks about the numerous opportunities he has to kill himself at different steps in the process, each time obviously forgoing it to instead follow through with the plans, but sometimes with a begrudging tone. That to me shows you just how little fulfillment he gained from the preparations in contrast to Eric, and how he probably figured that immortalizing anything in his "human" life would be tiresome and meaningless. In fact, I'm inclined to believe that it was solely Eric's idea to record the Basement Tapes, though I'm pretty sure there's no evidence to prove that  

liquorvamp wrote:

And you know in a way it's like he wants to teach us, to do us a favor and make sure the next person we love/someone we know won't end up like him and to ensure it never happens again. He had to kill and die to leave behind this morbid legacy/lesson.

This occurred to me as I was writing the original post, but I'm not sure if Eric had the capacity for that level of empathy or that much foresight. Though it'd definitely be a blessing in disguise if that's what people end up gleaning most from his writings! If nothing else, I think he wanted this message to apply directly to the friends and family who overlooked him, partly as a "fuck you for not caring, look what you made me do", but also as another part "why can't you see this? If you cared about me, you could have stopped me", thereby inadvertently leaving a powerful message.

Pipistrelle wrote:

Eric "celebrated" at numerous point in the process, their acquiring of guns, the success of their pipe bombs, ect. These were milestones for him, so I'm sure he would have felt very reluctant to destroy records of such "achievements".

Oh my never saw it like that. Very good! Interesting!

I don't think we have the full version of either journal. Dylan's journal wasn't a book at all. It was random papers scattered around his room. And after the search of both of their houses, investigators were finding important evidence papers and notes from the boys in boxes that were set to be thrown away. They had misplaced things left and right. Another high five team Jeffco...

Anyway....I also do not think Eric could wipe his HDD. He was a smart guy but I think it may have been here I read that he was basically trailing on coattails when they hacked the school computers, and although he was building his own game levels, it wasn't real programming.

I think Dylan's journal was found in his headboard. Perhaps he didn't think anyone would find it? IDK.

Do you think either of their journals would have been released to the public if Eric's hadn't been so violent? I'm unsure..

04daviszoe wrote:

Do you think either of their journals would have been released to the public if Eric's hadn't been so violent? I'm unsure..

I think they would have. People demanded to see them.
I think they would have been released anyway even if not so violent. IMO it has been almost 20 years and even without the release of all info there have been "copycats". I think they need to release everything they have period

Lizpuff wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Do you think either of their journals would have been released to the public if Eric's hadn't been so violent? I'm unsure..

I think they would have. People demanded to see them.
I think they would have been released anyway even if not so violent. IMO it has been almost 20 years and even without the release of all info there have been "copycats". I think they need to release everything they have period

The inevitable sad part is it might've been disposed off already. BUT I don't know. It could be stashed somewhere. If there's still archives of footages from media taken of the day which can be found I believe anything else can be found if someone was lucky enough to come across it. Not sure if I can say the same for the BT but Eric's journal....shrugs.

Lizpuff wrote:

Anyway....I also do not think Eric could wipe his HDD. He was a smart guy but I think it may have been here I read that he was basically trailing on coattails when they hacked the school computers, and although he was building his own game levels, it wasn't real programming.

Interesting. Thank you, I never knew this. I actually never knew Eric's level of tech knowledge. This is something new I've learnt from both of you and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Damn, he actually didn't know.

and noob here but, what's trailing on coattails?

Didn't Dylan mention somewhere in his journal that he gave up on pornography? If that's the case I doubt he would have any on his hard drive.
Is there really more to their journals that yet to be released? I had no idea and never really thought of that.

aquillina wrote:

Didn't Dylan mention somewhere in his journal that he gave up on pornography? If that's the case I doubt he would have any on his hard drive.
Is there really more to their journals that yet to be released? I had no idea and never really thought of that.

I'm inclined to feel there's more, for Eric's probably, but I may be wrong. It can't be all that JeffCo scanned and released to us, probably just the ones that may incriminate him. I would like to see how his writings and thoughts changed gradually, how it had developed where he starts writing for an audience...
and yes, Dylan has talked about pornography. So maybe that's all it is on the HD. Maybe other miscellaneous stuff.

Even if they did or didn't want their journals, everything was going to be exposed regardless of the circumstances. And still after 18 years the world still wants more answers or know everything there is to know. In the end however we'll never get the chance to learn them all(thank you very much Jeffco and FBI). Still I can't help but feel sorry for the two boys. Really wished things could have been totally different for them.

aquillina wrote:

Didn't Dylan mention somewhere in his journal that he gave up on pornography? If that's the case I doubt he would have any on his hard drive.
Is there really more to their journals that yet to be released? I had no idea and never really thought of that.

It's definitely making me feel like kind of a creep to harp so much on this aspect of Dylan, but this seemed like a good point I hadn't considered, so I pulled up the entries real quick to double check! The entry you mention states:
"[Edited] can get me that gun I hope, I wanna use it on a poor S.O.B. I know... his name is vodka, dylan is his name too. What else can I do/give... i stopped the pornography."
That was all the way back in Sept. of 97

The entry where he acknowledges his fetishes is dated Jan. of 99. He goes on to state "i try to thwart it, sometimes to no effect" and apologizes. I think we'd have to assume then that he fell back into it (deeply enough to develop specific preferences) after "abstaining" in '97. He was a lovelorn, depressed teenage boy after all, nothing super surprising there. So it's fully possible that that collection stayed on his computer, even if he claimed to be as sorry as he said.

As for the journals, I too believe that we're missing bits and pieces that were either edited out fully, mistakenly disregarded in the investigation, destroyed, or (best case scenario), locked away somewhere and forgotten about. Really, the fact that there are still things held tightly under wraps in this case makes you second guess if any of the evidence we have is complete

Pipistrelle wrote:

It's definitely making me feel like kind of a creep to harp so much on this aspect of Dylan, but this seemed like a good point I hadn't considered, so I pulled up the entries real quick to double check! The entry you mention states:
"[Edited] can get me that gun I hope, I wanna use it on a poor S.O.B. I know... his name is vodka, dylan is his name too. What else can I do/give... i stopped the pornography."
That was all the way back in Sept. of 97

The entry where he acknowledges his fetishes is dated Jan. of 99. He goes on to state "i try to thwart it, sometimes to no effect" and apologizes. I think we'd have to assume then that he fell back into it (deeply enough to develop specific preferences) after "abstaining" in '97. He was a lovelorn, depressed teenage boy after all, nothing super surprising there. So it's fully possible that that collection stayed on his computer, even if he claimed to be as sorry as he said.

As for the journals, I too believe that we're missing bits and pieces that were either edited out fully, mistakenly disregarded in the investigation, destroyed, or (best case scenario), locked away somewhere and forgotten about. Really, the fact that there are still things held tightly under wraps in this case makes you second guess if any of the evidence we have is complete Rolling Eyes

Good for pointing that out. I wonder what groomed or caused him to think it's absolutely disgusting and sinful to be in touch and explore his sexual fantasies. He was a teenage guy, his hormones are all over the place let alone he's a hopeless romantic. I wished he knew everybody else around him is probably doing the same thing. I guess he felt his fetishes significantly stood out so he must've felt crazy, perhaps even having a particular person in his mind as the object of his desires. I mean sigh, to the extent he wants to off himself for being who he is?
Yeah, I think he did fell back into it and his collection stayed. Fascinating though, knowing he's gonna die, of all the things he let anyone find, it's specifically the porn that CANNOT be found. Like judge him for ANYTHING else but lord not the porn/collection of his choice.

"Really, the fact that there are still things held tightly under wraps in this case makes you second guess if any of the evidence we have is complete" I think this almost all the time. :/

I said trailing on coattails just to mean that it was Zach and Dylan doing the real hacking of the computers and Eric was just along for the ride. He may have wanted those locker combos but he wouldn't have gotten them without Dylan and Zach.

Lizpuff wrote:

I said trailing on coattails just to mean that it was Zach and Dylan doing the real hacking of the computers and Eric was just along for the ride. He may have wanted those locker combos but he wouldn't have gotten them without Dylan and Zach.

oh okay, gotcha.

Although Zach didn't think Dylan was even smart enough to do anything in the computer field as far as college....So who knows. Maybe Zach thought himself to be the real mastermind...

Lizpuff wrote:

Although Zach didn't think Dylan was even smart enough to do anything in the computer field as far as college....So who knows. Maybe Zach thought himself to be the real mastermind...

It seemed to me the boys always treated their peers like the superior ones when with them, always mimicking them somehow. They had Chris whom heavily influenced them, and Zach who was smart which sort of dampens the boys intelligence in contrast. However I now learnt here the level of the boys' skills, apparently Eric wasn't even on par with tech at all.

Lizpuff wrote:

Although Zach didn't think Dylan was even smart enough to do anything in the computer field as far as college....So who knows.  Maybe Zach thought himself to be the real mastermind...

This statement by Zack has always puzzled me and stuck out in my mind.
Zack was said to be such a close friend of Dylan's and care about him so much yet he insults his friend like that only 2, 3 days after his death? That seems like such a strange thing to do and it makes me wonder just how good of a friend Zack actually was to Dylan.

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Although Zach didn't think Dylan was even smart enough to do anything in the computer field as far as college....So who knows. Maybe Zach thought himself to be the real mastermind...

This statement by Zack has always puzzled me and stuck out in my mind.
Zack was said to be such a close friend of Dylan's and care about him so much yet he insults his friend like that only 2, 3 days after his death? That seems like such a strange thing to do and it makes me wonder just how good of a friend Zack actually was to Dylan.

Is there a direct quote or source to this statement? Cause maybe it just sounds or came off wrong and it's not how Zach meant it...

liquorvamp wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Although Zach didn't think Dylan was even smart enough to do anything in the computer field as far as college....So who knows.  Maybe Zach thought himself to be the real mastermind...

This statement by Zack has always puzzled me and stuck out in my mind.
Zack was said to be such a close friend of Dylan's and care about him so much yet he insults his friend like that only 2, 3 days after his death? That seems like such a strange thing to do and it makes me wonder just how good of a friend Zack actually was to Dylan.

Is there a direct quote or source to this statement? Cause maybe it just sounds or came off wrong and it's not how Zach meant it...

I can't tell you exactly where to find it but it is in Zack's police interview.

I think Zach made that comment to give off the impression just like Brooks that it's too bad the boys weren't smart or thorough enough as they thought despite the fact that they had already killed people. Sort of like, geez, if you were gonna cause a massacre already, can't you at least pull it off right and know what the hell you're doing? Something like that. After 4/20, some of their friends had started dissing them and didn't hesitate to share negative comments which is no surprise since they ended up as murderers, but I think they felt betrayed because the people they spent most of their school years with ended up lying to them and they hated that E&D could've hid it from them the whole time.

It's just strange to me because I can't imagine saying such a thing about one of my close friends after they had died,especially in public ,like Chris Morris did.I would feel like if all I had to say was something insulting, I would owe my friend and their family my silence but people are different.

I can't even imagine. Honestly I can't blame Zach for being angry and hurt. If one of my close friends ever committed such an act I would as hell feel the exact same way. But in the end, I can't stay angry and hold onto that hatred because it will just eat you up inside like a virus. Nate Dykeman however is different. He still keeps in touch with Sue which I think shows that he still cared for Dylan and Eric even after their deaths. Same goes for Devon.

PaintItBlack wrote:

It's just strange to me because I can't imagine saying such a thing about one of my close friends after they had died,especially in public ,like Chris Morris did.I would feel like if all I had to say was something insulting, I would owe my friend and their family my silence but people are different.

Indeed people handle grieving in wildly different ways, sometimes in ways that can seem unfeeling to others. I can't even imagine what kind of emotions E&D's friends must have cycled through or felt in combination. I think the biggest and most unique thing is that they were thrust into the media spotlight immediately, probably walking on eggshells as to how they spoke about their friends who were now perceived as monsters to everyone else. I'd think all that would make for some distorted messaging or seemingly weird actions.

Pipistrelle wrote:

I think the biggest and most unique thing is that they were thrust into the media spotlight immediately, probably walking on eggshells as to how they spoke about their friends who were now perceived as monsters to everyone else. I'd think all that would make for some distorted messaging or seemingly weird actions.

Agreed. Well put.
The media went after them so FAST they haven't even digested the whole thing. and they were still kids. KIDS. Kinda like Brooks said, they had no choice but to grow up faster than they should have, just as teens, because they had to teach themselves about loss, mourning, violence and death and having to move on with life when life haven't even started for them. He admits he feels like emotionally stunted at some point.

Lizpuff wrote:

Although Zach didn't think Dylan was even smart enough to do anything in the computer field as far as college....So who knows.  Maybe Zach thought himself to be the real mastermind...

How skilled was Dylan with computers? Do you think Zach was correct, that Dylan would not have had the smarts to pursue college or a career?

smiggles1218 wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Although Zach didn't think Dylan was even smart enough to do anything in the computer field as far as college....So who knows. Maybe Zach thought himself to be the real mastermind...

How skilled was Dylan with computers? Do you think Zach was correct, that Dylan would not have had the smarts to pursue college or a career?

I'ma need the ones with prior knowledge of this to help us out cause this is new to me too [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So this is from the 11k Zach's interview.

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I think Dylan could have def. been smart enough to study computers. He just had to apply himself and get over his authority issue with teachers. College is a very diff experience from high school. His other issues aside....I think he could have done quite well in college.

Lizpuff wrote:

So this is from the 11k  Zach's interview.  

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Although the way this is worded is very weird. (Like everything else in the 11k). Did Zach mean Dylan? Or could he have meant himself? Given the context I assumed Dylan....

Thank you loads [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. From the sentence structure it looks like it meant that Dylan wasn't smart enough. "Whereas Klebold had wanted to go to college and study computer science, Heckler did not think he was smart enough." The "whereas" should be "while" though...but I'm no english major, what do I know.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think Dylan could have def. been smart enough to study computers. He just had to apply himself and get over his authority issue with teachers. College is a very diff experience from high school. His other issues aside....I think he could have done quite well in college.

Couldn't agree more. But I think Zach may have meant from the aspect of Computer-Science itself. See it kinda varies a little from just technical knowledge, which sounds like what Dylan was really good at. Computer-Science in itself is more in depth with theories or functionality whatsoever. Zach may have known Dylan well enough to know he was lazy and if he doesn't knowledgeably apply himself to things, then he wouldn't excel in it.

liquorvamp wrote:

Thank you loads [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. From the sentence structure it looks like it meant that Dylan wasn't smart enough. "Whereas Klebold had wanted to go to college and study computer science, Heckler did not think he was smart enough." The "whereas" should be "while" though...but I'm no english major, what do I know.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think Dylan could have def. been smart enough to study computers. He just had to apply himself and get over his authority issue with teachers. College is a very diff experience from high school. His other issues aside....I think he could have done quite well in college.

Couldn't agree more. But I think Zach may I have meant from the aspect of Computer-Science itself. See it kinda varies a little from just technical knowledge, which sounds like what Dylan was really good at. Computer-Science in itself is more in depth with theories or functionality whatsoever. Zach may have known Dylan well enough to know he was lazy and if he doesn't knowledgeably apply himself to things, then he wouldn't excel in it.

Ah see I didn't really know what "computer science" really meant. I know Dylan had learned several programming languages. So I think he could have done that. Especially if he was doing something like making video games or something else to capture his interests.