Can any of you honestly relate to either Eric or Dylan?

I could never relate to either to be honest. When Columbine happened I, like just everybody, thought it was a case of them being bullied daily and rejected by everybody to the point where they just blew up one day.

See, if I were in their shoes and I was a ticking time bomb seeking revenge, I wouldn't randomly attack a bunch of innocent sophomore nerds in a library who I barely know. Like if I were in Eric's shoes, I would have actually gone after the jocks who bullied me and the people who shunned me like that one girl with the Rammstein sticker who never called him and he saw at the prom with her date or whatever, well I would have 86ed her date when it went down and the girl who humiliated him when he asked her to prom, yeah it would have been curtains for her.


But I guess because Columbine's such a huge school and some people might not even be on campus while it was happening, you couldn't execute that kinda plan to perfection. But I also wouldn't have been laughing and making fun of people during the whole thing. I probably would have been tearful and emotional.


You know what I mean? I feel that most people would have had similar plans to mine if we were homicidal maniacs seeking revenge, but I just can't relate to anything those guys were feeling. Their fascination with the massacre reminds me of like some autistic kid who just stays fixated on one idea for a very long period of time and ceases his ability to think about or feel anything else.


Do you feel me on this? There are some people you can relate to, but I feel that these two were on completely different wavelengths from any way I've ever felt.

I can say that I relate to many little things with both boys and some major things with Dylan. I can relate to feeling like an outcast, liking different things then what is the norm at the time, etc.

I was in seventh grade when Columbine happened. I liked rock music, as opposed to the standard rap that was popular in my Catholic school in the South Bronx, I played way too many video games, and was just hitting puberty so I had a growth spurt that pushed me to 5'8" (I hit 5'10" in eighth grade and stopped growing).... and it's like the second you realize you are different or stand out in any way to others, that's it. So you embrace it and you try to get by. It was not easy and I remember hating going to school.

Luckily, things changed in high school. I was lucky enough to go to an all girls school in Manhattan and experience different cultures and ways of thinking outside of my (still current) Bronx neighborhood. Not having boys around made school easier, it seemed.

But I know what it is like to still feel alone even with all of the friends I had. I know what it is like to want a love of my own. Even someone who could just get me on a deeper level and not just judge me by outer appearance. What it is like to wake up in a slump and dread stepping foot outside, or sometimes making decisions so impulsively that the consequences weren't even thought of until after the fact. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was 29. Suddenly, things made a little more sense. I knew why I was feeling as if every time I stepped into a room, people were staring at me or laughing at me. Random panic attacks. I got medicated and slowly got better. I still have periods of really deep and horrible depression.

In regards to homicide though... I have never felt the urge to kill anyone who ever made me feel badly about myself. If anything, it made me want to destroy myself.

I don't feel much kinship with them. They were both immature and dickish.

Not in the sense that I intend to kill people, no. However, I do empathize with both of them. Our society pushed them off the edge, they lashed out in anger and took thirteen people with them.

Tough question.

"Relate" is maybe too big a word, but I believe some key similarities allow me to understand Eric Harris better than the vast majority of people can. For an in-depth explanation, you might want to check this thread:

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Columbine is unique because they wrote down all their thoughts and did a great job at hiding their true intentions (for the most part). Hindsight is always 20/20. Going to prom a few days earlier and not giving off any red flags is quite remarkable.

Look at the amount of copy cats that continue to get caught even today in 2017. There's always kids and people trying to be like them.

I don't really buy into the mental health stance for either of them, I think they 100% knew what they were doing and 100% more than capable of having empathy for others but the switch turned off completely. Some can make the case the switch wasn't completely off since they let some go but they were past the point of help. It was more so a mission for fame and to achieve personal beliefs. Beliefs that consist of going against a system that is really still messed up today. The bottom line is if you can shoot a jump shot or throw a football well you have better odds of getting away with shit and being more successful in life. Such as rape, such as other bad crimes etc...

Of course they went about it completely wrong but they were past the point of no return. That was their last fuck you much like a Osama Bin Laden to America. It's not necessarily the people they killed, it's where they were killed.

I highly relate to them minus the "killing people and blowing up my school" part.  It's almost like they are a reflection of myself. Although I relate to Eric more because I used to have this "revenge" mentality, I love creating custom maps/mods in games that I play, and like him and Dylan, I've always have high self-awarness.

every time I read about them or hear stories from people who knew them I see more and more of me. I have a lot of traits of them both. A lot of the stuff they both hated about themselves are the same things I hated too, and hearing Sue Klebold's audio book recently even more mirror image of my self, especially the part when hes paranoid about other kids laughing at him, that was me as a teen.

Yes I can.

I relate to parts of them, certain aspects of their personalities. Sometimes while reading their journals I find certain lines or verses that shake me, in a way. Like the thoughts I have been unable to translate into words are written down before me.

I mostly relate to their sadness. Their loneliness and desire to love and be loved.

I know my younger brother relates as well, though in his case it's with their anger and desperation.

Of course, I can definitely relate to Eric/Dylan.

A lot of us can relate, the only difference is in the choices we made or make in the future!

I relate to both, but I lean towards Eric. Dylan is more emotional so I don't fully find myself in him. I do not condone their actions on April 20th, though.

I was nearly the same age at the time and I'm certain Dylan would've been in my circle of friends. I honestly feel like you could substitute him in for some of the fringe group guys around here and not miss a beat.

I'm not sure I could say the same for Eric. It seems like you'd have to get to know him more to relate. It would depend on when I had met him. He was out in Colorado for what, 6 years? Maybe if I had met him early on during that period.

I think most people can relate to their feelings of anger and frustration as teenagers regarding popularity, unrequited love, etc. But once you get older and realize that high school is a small, insignificant chapter of life and things can get better, it's harder to relate to the teen angst. It all seems so petty. (This is not to minimalize Dylan's depression, I don't believe those feelings were just 'teen angst').

Hell yes I can relate to eric and Dylan...I was treated the same fucking way by the same type of jock assholes..and other student body..I was quiet and a loner and a outcast who was miserable at school...at one time I begged my parents to either homeschool me or transfer me ..or move away...I was picked on to no end..called a little weirdo..and had ZERO FRIENDS....any questions????

You bet your ass I know EXACTLY WHAT POOR ERIC AND DYLAN WENT THROUGH..NOW I HAVE THE SAME NAME AS ONE OF THE SHOOTERS..CAN ANYBODY GUESS WHICH ONE?...and yes I'm very serious. If my last name was Harris I would probably be stigmatized.

The experiences of being wronged and alienated are fairly common among people, especially teenagers. That rarely justifies murder.

Not if you were stuffed in lockers..given swirlies..tripped kicked and abused by other students...at some point the boys got tired of the mistreatment and said.." fuck this" they want to mistreat us" we will teach them. All about mistreatment

Pipsydipsy wrote:

Not if you were stuffed in lockers..given swirlies..tripped kicked and abused by other students...at some point the boys got tired of the mistreatment and said.." fuck this" they want to mistreat us"  we will teach them. All about mistreatment

thats why I said "rarely".

That why I don't want any friends..and don't have any...being abused and mistreated

Yeah, dylan a little.

Yeah I'm like a blend of both

I've been reading through some of Dylan's journal, heavy stuff. Pretty relatable.

Pipsydipsy wrote:

That why I don't want any friends..and don't have any...being abused and mistreated

I understand how you feel. It's hard to imagine what having a "friend" would be like. I have a significant other and have had relationships throughout the years but no one that was just a friend.

I've found people aren't trustworthy and very few are who they express themselves to be. At least Eric knew he was wearing a mask, many people are completely ignorant to that fact and many people have just become a mask around an empty shell.

I relate to both btw.

In some aspects yes. After reading "A Mother's Reckoning" when she talks about Dylan's inability to be self deprecating, I could TOTALLY relate. I was a perfectionist and bullied throughout school. I never thought jokes about me were really funny. I had a sense of humor of course but when something was funny to me. I never thought what people were saying about me were humorous. I wanted to be taken seriously.

I've evened out a bit now, but my humor towards myself tends to be a bit dark LOL... but I still have a hard time with too many jokes about me. If I find myself laughing at myself too much, I feel like I'm putting myself down.

It's interesting now too, being older. When Columbine first happened and you would hear "I would have reached out to them, we should reach out to the loners" well, they did have friends who couldn't reach them. Also, just the act of reaching out with no follow through doesn't help. Sure it is well meaning, but if you don't try for a friendship or human connection, I feel like it's really empty.

Yes they had friends. I honestly don't think it would have mattered if they had more friends. They still would have done what they did.


Eric and Dylan's focus was the "system". More friends would not have changed that focus.

"I declared war on the human race and war is what it is.”

"War is war and this is war," "I've declared war on the human race."

“This is just a two man war against everything else.”

"I really am sorry about all of this but war's war."


Heh, get this. KMFDM’s new album is entitled “Adios” and its release date is in April.

How fucking appropriate. A subliminal final “Adios” tribute to Reb and Vodka.

Thanks KMFDM … I ripped the hell out of the system.

More the depression on the part of Dylan. I do occasionally feel like an outcast. I am, for a variety of reasons. And saying otherwise is just downright nonsens m. Thats not judging myself too harshly. Its Just a fact, and its something I have to accept.

As for Dylan I believe that he felt like an outcast on a vastly different level. I dont think he felt like an outcast like any ordinary person. Everyone can feel alone every now and than.

I believe that Dylan felt like an outcast, because he had a host of mental health issues. He wasnt able to comprehend how much he was loved by other people.

Opposite sex: kind off.

Bullying: Not necessarily, because IDK wether they were bullied, and because even thats true, my experiences of bullying or harassment is not really as extreme as the stories of bullying towards Eric and Dylan. Ive never had glass bottles and stuff thrown my way, and apparently this was a thing at Columbine from what Ive heard.
I feel horrible for whatever bullying happened at Columbine to the students, though.

I have no respect for that stuff, whatsoever. I hope that people know better in almost the year 2021

Norwegian wrote:

More the depression on the part of Dylan. I do occasionally feel like an outcast. I am, for a variety of reasons. And saying otherwise is just downright nonsens m. Thats not judging myself too harshly. Its Just a fact, and its something I have to accept.

As for Dylan I believe that he felt like an outcast on a vastly different level. I dont think he felt like an outcast like any ordinary person. Everyone can feel alone every now and than.

I believe that Dylan felt like an outcast, because he had a host of mental health issues. He wasnt able to comprehend how much he was loved by other people.

Opposite sex: kind off.

Bullying: Not necessarily, because IDK wether they were bullied, and because even thats true, my experiences of bullying or harassment is not really as extreme as the stories of bullying towards Eric and Dylan. Ive never had glass bottles and stuff thrown my way, and apparently this was a thing at Columbine from what Ive heard.
I feel horrible for whatever bullying happened at Columbine to the students, though.

I have no respect for that stuff, whatsoever. I hope that people know better in almost the year 2021

Once again, nobody who is just "depressed" goes out and kills 5 people.

Ivan wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

More the depression on the part of Dylan. I do occasionally feel like an outcast. I am, for a variety of reasons. And saying otherwise is just downright nonsens m. Thats not judging myself too harshly. Its Just a fact, and its something I have to accept.

As for Dylan I believe that he felt like an outcast on a vastly different level. I dont think he felt like an outcast like any ordinary person. Everyone can feel alone every now and than.

I believe that Dylan felt like an outcast, because he had a host of mental health issues. He wasnt able to comprehend how much he was loved by other people.

Opposite sex: kind off.

Bullying: Not necessarily, because IDK wether they were bullied, and because even thats true, my experiences of bullying or harassment is not really as extreme as the stories of bullying towards Eric and Dylan. Ive never had glass bottles and stuff thrown my way, and apparently this was a thing at Columbine from what Ive heard.
I feel horrible for whatever bullying happened at Columbine to the students, though.

I have no respect for that stuff, whatsoever. I hope that people know better in almost the year 2021

Once again, nobody who is just "depressed" goes out and kills 5 people.

Im fully aware that someone thats Just depressed doesnt go out and kill people. Most mentally ill people dont.

The tiny minority of mentally ill people, however, do.

"The Mind of Those Who Kill, and Kill Themselves - The New York Times" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

With Klebold, it wasnt Just depression, of course. Hes lack of intimacy with females, influences from Eric ++ probably played a part. No mass shooter are simply Just depressed or simply Just bullied or simply Just rejected by girls(as they are usually guys from what I know). But it is part of the whole picture.

Bullying is also something that experts have argued is a part of it(whereas others dispute it). Yet, the multitude of factors- analogy is what Im most familiar with

Regardless, I dont relate to the part of going out and committing murder. I relate to the part of depression. Which is not the same thing.

I can relate to Marilyn Monroes depression and woman- hood, aswell. That doesnt mean I want to become a celebrity.

I can sorta relate to Eric in a way as I have anger issues, but not to the point i'm homicidal. And that I was bullied before as well. Dylan because i'm more closed in and quiet. I don't support what they did but I can sorta relate to their issues before the shooting.

I think a lot of people can, but it also gets to a point Where its extremely complicated. Ivan has a point, sort of, that theres more than Just depression in Dylans mind. The vast majority are not, but I do believe that for a few people its possible to go from that particular place of suicidal to also homicidal. I cant answer why that is, as Im not a criminologist, or psychologist, nor have I researched this deeply. But I do believe its more like 'I inflict my pain onto you' and 'if I die, I might aswell take people with me'.

That is incredibly hard for me to understand. I think paranoid dellusions are part of some mass murderers. Feeling percecuted.

So far Ive seen conflicting statements about Dylans mental health. Of course, theres no dispute that he was depressed. But I cant comprehend why Ochberg says that Dylan wasnt psychotic, whereas Langmann says he was. Mary Ellen O'Toole suggests that Dylan was more than Just depressed.