School Shootings and Gun Violence: Europe vs America

I read this really interesting article about school shootings in America versus school shootings in Europe. It also touched on gun violence and shone a different light on it.

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But guns have become the elephant in the room that nobody talks about....When the elephant’s presence is too massive not be noticed—for example, when the elephant kills several people—the elephant’s spokesmen rush in to tell us that “No, this is not the time to talk about the elephant.” And so we talk about video games and psychological screening and parents and everything else, until the next multiple killing. But of course that, too, is not the time to talk about elephants.

What do you guys think? I mean, personally I am in favour of stricter gun laws in America, or at least better background checks for now, although I understand that it is a contentious issue.

Do you think that the access to guns in America is the reason for more school shootings there?
Would there be less school shootings if there were stricter gun laws? I constantly see the argument that people would find other ways (for example stabbing). I also understand that criminals are the least likely people to legally buy a gun, due to background checks and the fact that you can trace a gun. But would it reduce this kind of violence significantly?
And, what other differences can you see between America and Europe?

Bluhhhh!!! There was a shooting in Germany right after Columbine that killed even more people than Columbine--17, IIRC. It's mentioned in "No Easy Answers"

I think it's our gun culture in general.

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

Bluhhhh!!!  There was a shooting in Germany right after Columbine that killed even more people than Columbine--17, IIRC.  It's mentioned in "No Easy Answers"

Robert Steinhäuser, Gutenberg Gymnasium in Erfurt in 2002.
Killed 12 teachers, the secretary, 2 students and a police officer and himself as retaliation for getting expelled the semester before that.
He was part of a sport shooting association and after some training and instruction (... among others from one of the policemen who would later respond to the incident...) got a gun license and was able to acquire his weapons legally.

After that Germany had one fatal shooting in 2009 where the shooter killed 15 and himself and one in 2006 where 6 got injured and the shooter killed himself.

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Do you think that the access to guns in America is the reason for more school shootings there?

Definetly.

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Would there be less school shootings if there were stricter gun laws? I constantly see the argument that people would find other ways (for example stabbing). I also understand that criminals are the least likely people to legally buy a gun, due to background checks and the fact that you can trace a gun. But would it reduce this kind of violence significantly?

If there were stricter gun laws, school violence would still happen but it just won't end dramatically with an enourmous death count. Stabbing is one option for example, but it's easier to prevent since the police can just shoot down the preperator easily without the fear of getting into a firefight. I personally don't see any direct reducement of violence when it's happening, just less consequences when they're using knives, ax etc. instead of guns.

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And, what other differences can you see between America and Europe?

Just the way how easily it is to obtain guns in America in comparison to Europe. Other than that, I don't see any major differences.

Even when America tries to get stricter laws, there are so many loopholes. Examples like Eric and Dylan had Robyn buy guns, Adam had Nancy buy guns, Dylann Roof was able to buy a gun even with a drugs charge (which proves that some gun stores don't care about rules, I guess).

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Jbow89 wrote:

I think it's our gun culture in general.

3 years after columbine. 16 died, excluding Steinhauser (the perpetrator).

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

Bluhhhh!!!  There was a shooting in Germany right after Columbine that killed even more people than Columbine--17, IIRC.  It's mentioned in "No Easy Answers"

Meant to reply to you.

SaucyJimmy wrote:

Despite its relatively lax gun laws, Switzerland has only had one mass shooting in recent history: the Zug massacre on 27 September 2001.

It's almost as if mass murder is negatively correlated with individual power.

Friedrich looked like an idiot.

School shooters and criminals can obtain firearms anywhere, despite all the gun laws and restrictions. There really should be tighter background checks, but if the state bans semi-automatic weapons, bad guys will resort to handguns. And if they ban handguns, they will resort to knives. And even if they ban knives, they will resort to cars. The point is not to restrict people from having firearms, if the government takes them, the law abiding citizens are going to be unarmed and unable to defend themselves while criminals will still find their way.

The entire school shooting fad is not just an american thing, it happens world wide. Even in countries with strictest firearm laws there are shooting sprees

Im never for giving up rights and granting governmental control.

I myself own 8 firearms and ill be damned if. Our government is going to tell me anything..they are so screwed up themselves. Our government needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves. One question.." where do we get off telling the American citizens how to live their lives when we ourselves can't get out of our own way....people..listen up, GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE!...PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!...IT IS NOT WHAT WAS PUT INTO ERIC AND DYLANS HANDS THAT. KILLED THOSE STUDENTS
AT COLUMBINE HIGHSCHOOL....IT WAS WHAT WAS PUT INTO THIER. MINDS!....PLAIN AND SIMPLE...AND ADAM LANZA IS THE SAME. DAMN STORY

School shootings are the result of a complex variety of factors. People prefer to oversimplify the causes of shootings so possible solutions appear straightforward and simple; Wide-scale prevention of shootings would require an expensive, complex approach involving multiple facets of society.

The FBI. Profilers said that it was indeed all Eric Harris's planning, they conclude he was was devoid of any true feelings.
The lead profiler said that Dylan klebold was the follower..and that ERIC HARRIS was most definantly. The leader..it was all his idea and he in fact talked Dylan klebold into it..just like he talked him into breaking into the van to steal..this comes directly from the FBI themselves..Dylan the leader and planner?.. No way in hell did he come up with that..it was all Eric 100%..folks
You can't say its not true..because if you do, that's like saying you know more than they do they go on to say that Eric wanted the bombing more than the shooting and he actually looked up to Timothy McVeigh and hated society as a whole ...they wanted to go down in history as the greatest mass murders of their time...( directly from a FBI PROFILER who worked on the case...Dylan was the mastermind...bull shit....that theory is complete bullshit

Eric was also determined to have had a lot more mental problems than Dylan..the FBI spells it all out in black and white..they say columbine was not about bullying in the very least..it was about a hated society

In my opinion making gun laws only stricter hurts law abiding citizens while people who are determined to kill will find a way to obtain weapons to kill with.

There are felons arrested every single day where I live with firearms. How did they get these firearms? Not from an authorized dealer. Whereas stricter gun laws hinder me, who has a conceal carry license, by making more loopholes and crap I have to jump through while felons are buying them on the street for cash or drugs. I can stop a school/workplace shooting, why would people want to make it harder for me to protect them?

We all know police are only there to clean up the mess and citizens are the ones who are always on the scene immediately and can stop a shooting.

Russian shooter Anton Konev simply killed a worker at a gun shop and took the guns from there. Others could do the same.

Seung Hui Cho committed the worst school shooting in history, using two small caliber handguns and numerous 10 round magazines. He didn't need an assault rifle; all he needed was a sufficiently methodical plan, which he had.

STK wrote:

Seung Hui Cho committed the worst school shooting in history, using two small caliber handguns and numerous 10 round magazines. He didn't need an assault rifle; all he needed was a sufficiently methodical plan, which he had.

Although he did use hollow points, which are more deadly than FMJ.

SaucyJimmy wrote:

Despite its relatively lax gun laws, Switzerland has only had one mass shooting in recent history: the Zug massacre on 27 September 2001.

But you need your ID to be a certain colour to be able to get a gun and pretty much do anything.
In Switzerland your ID will be a different colour to a regular ID if you have a mental illness or have been hospitalised for mental problems or something similar, like suicidal thoughs. Your ID will be another different colour if you've commit a crime.
If you had mental problems when you were a child however don't have problems anymore you can go through a long process to get a regular ID.
If your ID is a different colour to regular IDs then you can't get a gun and most jobs don't accept people with different coloured IDs.
Unless you have absolutely nothing wrong with you and have a regular ID, you can live a regular life. If not, your life will be hell.
Why do I bring this up? Because people who have problems can't get guns. If they have depression or something, they most likely can't get guns. Dylan Klebold and Seung Hui Cho, for example, probably couldn't get guns there. Dylan because of depression and Cho definitely couldn't due to his anxiety, selective mutism and because he said he had to repeat Columbine in High School. Him talking about repeating Columbine pretty much eliminates any chances of him getting a gun. Elliot Rodger wouldn't either. He went through several therapists and had several medications, people knew he hated women (he sent a misogynistic website called PUAhate to some of his family members) and is just the type of guy that wouldn't be able to get a gun in Switzerland. Elliot had "potential mass murderer" written all over him.
It's harder to get guns in Switzerland than a lot of people think.