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 couple of things i wonder about

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lastmealpotatoskins

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couple of things i wonder about Empty
PostSubject: couple of things i wonder about   couple of things i wonder about Icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 4:49 pm

1. so why did the boys bring multiple knifes and not stab anybody? Eric I believe is reported to have said something along the lines of stabbing people might be fun.

2. If this was a suicide mission why not kill every possible person they could?

3. They killed themselves 48 minutes after the massacre began, why not try to escape?

4. why didn't the propane bombs go off?

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PostSubject: Re: couple of things i wonder about   couple of things i wonder about Icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 4:55 pm

1. Who knows?

2. By the time the shooting started most people had run off. Personally I don't think they cared about the body count, more of the fact at least they killed someone.

3. Why escape? To where? Would the SWAT teams shoot you? Would you want to finally end it all after that hell?

4. ?
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couple of things i wonder about Empty
PostSubject: Re: couple of things i wonder about   couple of things i wonder about Icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 5:23 pm

2.

They indeed intended to kill more people than they did. They just thought that the bombs would accomplish that for them. They still believed they'd go off for quite a while--- until they realized they weren't functioning properly at the very end.

3.

They wanted to die themselves, so why even bother. Both were suicidal. Dylan was just more straight forward (and consistent in discussing it) than Eric (Eric did admit he was suicidal in his psych evaluation papers in the 11k. It is in the form where he had to circle answers. He didn't write the word suicidal (that we're aware of/have access to), but he admits it on this particular document).
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PostSubject: Re: couple of things i wonder about   couple of things i wonder about Icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 6:03 pm

1. It was actually Dylan mentioning stabbing people would be a fun thing to do. Knives were his thing whereas bombs and guns were Eric's thing.
2. True, they wanted to kill tons of people but they also wanted to have power by holding someone's life in their hands and decide whether that person lives or dies. That would give them the feeling of being godlike. Plus Eric mentioned in the basement tapes something along the lines of wanting to cause physcological turmoil on the survivors.
3. What would be the point of trying to escape? When everyone knew they were the shooters and the police would be after them.
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PostSubject: Re: couple of things i wonder about   couple of things i wonder about Icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 7:02 pm

lastmealpotatoskins wrote:


1. so why did the boys bring multiple knifes and not stab anybody? Eric I believe is reported to have said something along the lines of stabbing people might be fun.

2. If this was a suicide mission why not kill every possible person they could?

3. They killed themselves 48 minutes after the massacre began, why not try to escape?

4. why didn't the propane bombs go off?

CatherineM813 wrote:
1. It was actually Dylan mentioning stabbing people would be a fun thing to do. Knives were his thing whereas bombs and guns were Eric's thing.

2. True, they wanted to kill tons of people but they also wanted to have power by holding someone's life in their hands and decide whether that person lives or dies. That would give them the feeling of being godlike. Plus Eric mentioned in the basement tapes something along the lines of wanting to cause physcological turmoil on the survivors.

3. What would be the point of trying to escape? When everyone knew they were the shooters and the police would be after them.


1.  I'd just like to add that I speculate that Dylan had a fascination and fantasy with kniving others because he was a cutter.  He knew how it felt on himself and so he wanted to inflict that particular, personal type of weapon on another and externalize it.  See how it felt to cut someone else.

2. I agree with CatherineM813 that part of the purpose of allowing some to arbitruarily live and others to die -- to play the controller of human fate -- was to inflict psychological damage on those that lived to tell.  And it's true, that many, many students suffered and these adults still suffer today.   They essentially psychologically damaged and tainted the minds of students that were physically undamaged.  The ripple effect of that near hour is enormous.  In a sense, the whole entire student body was made a permanent victim either physically or mentally.

They wanted the bombs to do most of the work because the bombs were an effective, nonconfrontational way to pick off a large number. They killed very little, actually, so I don't think it was really a calculated thing that 13 died.  I bet they also had the perception that they killed a lot more than they actually did.   But because the bombs failed, I'm sure Eric felt the whole thing was a fail.  The fantasy of NBK did not match up to the reality of how it went down.  The lust for killing pretty much stopped after the library carnage which to me means that on some level, they couldn't stomach it or were tired of it - or a bit of both.  Then when they went back to the bombs and that were mostly duds, they lost all focus.

3. Escape is not a possibility for mass murders.  The best "fuck you" a  mass murder can hope for is kamikaze style.  James Holmes now spends his time in a prison cell attempting suicide and TJ Lane's 15 minute of infamy are now over with his flipping the bird in court in his "KILLER" t-shirt.  The best revenge is to have the last word.  E & D knew that.

4. See the other loooooong threads on the bombs in this forum.  It's a ridiculously ever popular and neeeeever ending discussion. ;)


Last edited by InFiNiNcEX5 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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couple of things i wonder about Empty
PostSubject: Re: couple of things i wonder about   couple of things i wonder about Icon_minitimeFri Jun 28, 2013 12:57 am

CatherineM813 wrote:
1. It was actually Dylan mentioning stabbing people would be a fun thing to do. Knives were his thing whereas bombs and guns were Eric's thing.

Yes, I remember that it was said that Dylan was the one talking about stabbing people. I agree that bombs and guns were more of what Eric was interested in, particularly the bombs.

CatherineM813 wrote:

2. True, they wanted to kill tons of people but they also wanted to have power by holding someone's life in their hands and decide whether that person lives or dies. That would give them the feeling of being godlike. Plus Eric mentioned in the basement tapes something along the lines of wanting to cause physcological turmoil on the survivors.

I know that the idea of that was a thrill to them, without question. And it is highly likely they somewhat felt like that when they were actually shooting people. But, again, they intended to shoot at people as they were fleeing the explosion (had the explosion(s) occurred as they'd hoped), along with police who showed up, as well as medical personnel and any reporters and any others who might've been watching the chaos unfold or attempt to help. Oh, indeed, they knew that they would mentally and emotionally scar a large number of people for life with whatever it was they managed to do.

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:


They wanted the bombs to do most of the work because the bombs were an effective, nonconfrontational way to pick off a large number. They killed very little, actually, so I don't think it was really a calculated thing that 13 died.  I bet they also had the perception that they killed a lot more than they actually did.   But because the bombs failed, I'm sure Eric felt the whole thing was a fail.  The fantasy of NBK did not match up to the reality of how it went down.  The lust for killing pretty much stopped after the library carnage which to me means that on some level, they couldn't stomach it or were tired of it - or a bit of both.  Then when they went back to the bombs and that were mostly duds, they lost all focus.

I entirely agree (primarily with the parts of your post I emphasized).

* (I am now really curious if you and I (and a few others) were discussing this at length on tumblr a year ago or so!!...That was a great conversation!!)

I do believe that they felt the death toll was much larger than it actually was due to the general chaos and confusion, and their own state of mind and being at the time (lack of sleep, adrenaline on overdrive, possible fear, etc.)

This is also something that I discussed a year back (maybe with you!): the fact that they knew that using bombs to do the majority of their "bidding" for them was not at ALL "personal", and the fact that they slowed down after they shot people in the library was possibly because it was too personal, and they weren't as into it as they'd imagined they would be. I personally think it went beyond Eric injuring his nose and wanting to check the bombs.

That entire episode was a full on "improvisation" of sorts when the bombs didn't detonate as planned, and despite all of the bravado, I personally sense that it actually bothered them in many ways to shoot people like that. They did not shoot/kill ANYONE who talked to them. It wasn't only Savage that this happened with. While he did say things to her, Eric didn't remotely hurt Bree Pasquale. She was sticking out like a sore thumb because she had no room to hide, and pleaded for her life. As twisted as it was, they were conversing. Most of the others only spoke after they'd already been injured, if I am remembering things correctly. All of that took its toll; the actual shooting, realizing to some degree what they'd done, and coming to the realization that the bombs weren't functioning. It drained them.


CatherineM813 wrote:

3. What would be the point of trying to escape? When everyone knew they were the shooters and the police would be after them.


This point does make complete sense. However, I still personally think they didn't want to escape. I believe they wanted to die.

Shooting at the cops was an attempt to "kill two birds with one stone"; they'd be able to have the thrill and "revenge" at possibly killing/injuring cops with their "own hands", and at some point, the cops would possibly kill them.

When Eric started shooting at the bomb in the cafeteria, he was at a distance that would have given him a bit of time to watch it blow (had it functioned as he intended), and maybe witness some of its destruction, but it would have killed him very quickly (not as quickly as walking right up to it), but it would have killed him, and I believe he knew this.
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PostSubject: Re: couple of things i wonder about   couple of things i wonder about Icon_minitimeWed Jul 17, 2013 7:27 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
lastmealpotatoskins wrote:


1. so why did the boys bring multiple knifes and not stab anybody? Eric I believe is reported to have said something along the lines of stabbing people might be fun.

2. If this was a suicide mission why not kill every possible person they could?

3. They killed themselves 48 minutes after the massacre began, why not try to escape?

4. why didn't the propane bombs go off?

CatherineM813 wrote:
1. It was actually Dylan mentioning stabbing people would be a fun thing to do. Knives were his thing whereas bombs and guns were Eric's thing.

2. True, they wanted to kill tons of people but they also wanted to have power by holding someone's life in their hands and decide whether that person lives or dies. That would give them the feeling of being godlike. Plus Eric mentioned in the basement tapes something along the lines of wanting to cause physcological turmoil on the survivors.

3. What would be the point of trying to escape? When everyone knew they were the shooters and the police would be after them.


1.  I'd just like to add that I speculate that Dylan had a fascination and fantasy with kniving others because he was a cutter.  He knew how it felt on himself and so he wanted to inflict that particular, personal type of weapon on another and externalize it.  See how it felt to cut someone else.

2. I agree with CatherineM813 that part of the purpose of allowing some to arbitruarily live and others to die -- to play the controller of human fate -- was to inflict psychological damage on those that lived to tell.  And it's true, that many, many students suffered and these adults still suffer today.   They essentially psychologically damaged and tainted the minds of students that were physically undamaged.  The ripple effect of that near hour is enormous.  In a sense, the whole entire student body was made a permanent victim either physically or mentally.

They wanted the bombs to do most of the work because the bombs were an effective, nonconfrontational way to pick off a large number. They killed very little, actually, so I don't think it was really a calculated thing that 13 died.  I bet they also had the perception that they killed a lot more than they actually did.   But because the bombs failed, I'm sure Eric felt the whole thing was a fail.  The fantasy of NBK did not match up to the reality of how it went down.  The lust for killing pretty much stopped after the library carnage which to me means that on some level, they couldn't stomach it or were tired of it - or a bit of both.  Then when they went back to the bombs and that were mostly duds, they lost all focus.

3. Escape is not a possibility for mass murders.  The best "fuck you" a  mass murder can hope for is kamikaze style.  James Holmes now spends his time in a prison cell attempting suicide and TJ Lane's 15 minute of infamy are now over with his flipping the bird in court in his "KILLER" t-shirt.  The best revenge is to have the last word.  E & D knew that.

4. See the other loooooong threads on the bombs in this forum.  It's a ridiculously ever popular and neeeeever ending discussion. ;)

Agreed on all counts.
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couple of things i wonder about Empty
PostSubject: Re: couple of things i wonder about   couple of things i wonder about Icon_minitimeWed Jul 17, 2013 9:22 pm

lastmealpotatoskins wrote:
1. so why did the boys bring multiple knifes and not stab anybody? Eric I believe is reported to have said something along the lines of stabbing people might be fun.

I've often wondered if the knives were brought along in case someone tried to overpower the shooters while they were reloading?

Keeping in mind that E/D planned to be on opposite sides of the school from each other, they may have felt they were vulnerable while reloading. A number of previous shooters have been tackled down.

If someone got the idea to try and tackle them down, a knife would come in handy.

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