The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold

Sue Klebold has said things that are inexplicable in my opinion. Things that to me define her character and point directly to her part in everything that happened. Her guilt lies beyond being simply the mother of a killer, her guilt is the creation of a killer.

Some things Sue has said with my commentary then summary.

"Dylan did not do this because of the way he was raised, He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised."

Deflecting blame at it's finest. Claiming no responsibility for something she had a direct hand in. Raising a killer. Dylan was not born a killer, regardless of her idiotic claim that she felt dread upon holding him as a baby. Dylan was turned into a killer by his parents.

"I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness"

LMFAO, seriously? You brought up a son who killed people.... That is a statement that boggles my mind. That someone can be so arrogant as to not realize they can actually make mistakes.

"I don’t understand the decision and I don’t agree with it, but I’m going to support it. This will be resolved quickly if we comply with the ruling, and I don’t want to make a bad situation worse by alienating you from the people running the school."

Said to Dylan on the way home after being suspended for 5 days due to hacking the schools servers. What does she care about in this situation? She cares about how the administration feels about her and Dylan. Her reputation always takes precedence over anything and everything else. She can do no wrong and her child cannot either, if she would admit that he did she would shatter her fabricated lie of a life.

"I told Dylan he couldn’t allow the obnoxious behavior of others to upset him."

In regards to being bullied. Nice Sue, tell your child to hold everything in and pretend everything's fine like you do. Again shifting blame, Dylan couldn't have caused anything that led to "obnoxious behavior" from others. Shifting blame is a common theme in Dylan's writings, no clue where he got that from. Not dealing with emotions... Comes from Sue as well.

"I have read in the years since that the scratch read ‘Fags’ — a slur I have also read was frequently leveled against Dylan and Eric in the hallways at Columbine — but we did not hear that from the school."

In her book, in regards to Dylan scratching "fags" on a locker. Her son cannot be blamed because he himself was called a fag!!! Justification of actions because something was done to you. I'm sure her lessons helped Dylan justify NBK. Another thing is it would tarnish her and her sons reputation and that could not happen since that's all that ever mattered to her.

"This lack of follow-through on my part was uncharacteristic, but indicative: I believed Dylan was a psychologically healthy human being. I never considered that the paper could be a reflection of deep-seated problems. I knew it contained some rough language and a dark theme, but had confidence that his teacher and the school counselor would handle the situation appropriately.”

In regards to the paper Dylan wrote. Has Sue done any parenting... Ever?! Severe lack of interest in her own child. Sue feels no responsibility for Dylan nor his actions. This is one of the major factors that really makes Sue the responsible party for Dylans involvement in Columbine. Sue believes others should take care of it... WTF?! Other don't have an investment in your child... But neither did Sue. I believe she was fooled by Dylan because she herself taught him to live a lie. Never do anything that will give us a bad name, image means everything to her. More than her children.

"I can be in a doctor’s waiting room and still hope they call me by my first name, rather than shout out Mrs Klebold, every time I meet someone and give my name, there’s a moment of hesitancy where I watch their face very closely. They may say, 'Gee, why does that sound so familiar?'"

Stated in 2016. Still to this day caring solely about her reputation, not taking responsibility. Some say it could be shame, but she has shown no shame other than her son brought a bad reputation to their name.

"They had different brain conditions. I believe Dylan had some kind of a mood disorder. I believe psychopathy is in a different category. For whatever reason, the two were like magnetic poles. They stuck together. They fed each other. I don’t want to say someone commits crimes because they have a mental illness – that is not true – but I believe strongly that both Dylan and Eric were victims of their own pathology, just as everyone else was a victim of that pathology.”

Here is a great one. Dylan didn't choose to do this, he couldn't make the choice because he was mentally ill....... She claims to be an advocate for mental illness but is at a complete loss when it comes to understanding it. She says someone doesn't commit crimes because of mental illness and then says they were victims of their own pathology, ok then Sue. Dylan is a victim of your upbringing. Sue will divert blame to anything at any given moment.

Another event that shows Sue's culpability is how she reacted to Dylan saying "Stop pushing me, Mom. I’m getting angry, and I don’t know how well I can control it." Sue apologized later... WTF?! Your son cannot control his anger and you don't question it? You don't talk to him? You apologize because you yourself cannot handle emotions and you taught your son the same, Sue just simply could not handle it because she didn't know how.

"I never had anger towards him, except for the moment when I saw the Basement Tapes at the sheriff’s department, six months after he died. I felt about a day of anger because he was bad-mouthing everybody and everything – family members – and pulling things out of his past, some incident in day care when he was three years old. He was trying to latch on to things that made him feel angry, and he was grasping at straws because he’d had such a good life. But I just couldn’t sustain that anger."

Is Sue even human? Dylan can do no wrong, not when he's killing people... But he cursed on a tape!! No one can see that! Destroy the basement tapes!!! She is a very sick person.

"I feel that Dylan was a victim of some kind of malfunction going on in his brain. If you explained suicide to a child, your grandfather died because he got sick in his brain and hurt grandma and then he hurt himself. That’s my thinking with Dylan. The Dylan I knew and raised was a kind person. He was thoughtful. He was conscious-ridden, which is why this is still so difficult for me to understand. I feel a need to apologize to anyone who might be offended because I’m not angry at him, or don’t judge him. But I don’t, because he is my son, and because I believe that whatever killed all the others, killed him, too.”

Explaining why she's not mad about the actual massacre. Doesn't even talk about the victims.. Because according to Sue there are only 2 victims, herself and Dylan. Dylan didn't kill anyone, his mental illness killed everyone... But... Mental illness doesn't cause crimes.... Sue?? Sue?? It's hard to even respond to this quote honestly, it's just simply sickening.

"I had the distorted belief that Dylan belonged to me. He was mine. And when I see movies, or plays, or songs, I have a sense that someone is taking him away from me, that they’re claiming ownership of something they know nothing about."

In regards to books, movies, ect. Showing her true colors finally. Dylan belonged to Sue, his legacy belonged to her. Why? Because who benefitted the most from Columbine? Sue. Sue the advocate, Sue the speaker.... Sue the murderer.

I could list quotes all day long that show how self-righteous, arrogant, manipulative and disgusting this woman is. Dylans' tragedy was her creation and her property. She wanted to be the only one to benefit from it. He did no wrong because his mental illness did it, which diverts blame and doesn't "tarnish" her family name. She created the perfect façade, she had this façade before Columbine and continues it today. Caring mother, devoted, loving... Her ignorance and inability to deal with emotions or any event that would make her or Dylan look bad caused the whole massacre.

Dylan didn't want to live a lie like his mother, he wanted to be real but was never taught how.

Burn in hell Sue.

Thank you for reading!

The thing I just can't understand about Sue is, who the hell prays for their son to die? I could never make the meaning out of that sentence.

1Mare1 wrote:

The thing I just can't understand about Sue is, who the hell prays for their son to die? I could never make the meaning out of that sentence.

That's after she found out Dylan was involved right? There's two ways of seeing it. She was praying for him to die so the massacre would end. Of course I don't believe that for a second. She was praying that he would die because he ruined her reputation. That's the one I believe.

Have you read Kass' book about Columbine? He writes a fair amount about Sue as a person and who she was before she was married and a mother. Paints a good picture of her imho.

I don't agree with all of what you said but I do think that Sue excuses Dylan from what he did quite a bit and I think that is a bit of motherly nature. It is not right at all but it happens.

The things she did with Dylan, and her parenting style relate back to who she is as a person which is where I feel the Kass book brings some of it to light.

She presents herself as a strong woman who was broken. Someone who clings to logic rather than emotion but in reality is anything but

Lizpuff wrote:

She presents herself as a strong woman who was broken.

Key word here is "presents" something she has done for quite a long time, presenting a false image. The media and everyone love this person.

I think what she does in regards to excusing Dylan goes beyond being motherly.

I haven't read Kass but I've read a lot of her interviews and the such and can see right through her.

While I do somewhat agree that Sue seems to stick her head in the sand when faced with the full roll Dylan played in Columbine, she also is a mother who had every thought, hope and dream concerning her son taken in the blink of an eye. That would effect every aspect of your being, every single thought you had, every action.

Where you see her shame of a ruined reputation, or her embarrassment. I see the shame and embarrassment of a mother who feels like she let her son down. I see a mother who was blissfully unaware that her own son had longed for death for years underneath her very nose and she suspected nothing, did nothing to help him. I see a woman who had a child that she nurtured and loved taken from her in one of the most horrible way you can imagine.  

I honestly get no feelings of arrogance from anything Sue has ever written or said. I only get the feeling of total anguish. Her eyes hold a hell that reflects what her thinking must be like. Her internal dialog would be hell on its own. Much less living with the fact your child not only killed himself, but decided to take innocent people with him.

Yet everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Sue had what she felt was the perfect family. Byron on drugs I think had been the worst thing up until that point. Even when Dylan got in trouble Sue still thought she had the perfect family. Yes she buried her head in the sand a bit but compared to a lot of kids Byron and Dylan were good kids.

I think it goes to show how great of a liar Dylan was. Sue and Tom did not know what was truly going on with him, his friends, his teachers, hell even his counselor did not notice any issues. They may have seen small things but never the big picture.

Had Sue noticed and gotten him help would things have changed? I don't know. I'd like to think yes. But had she been a helicopter parent, I think Dylan would have spun out much sooner

Lizpuff wrote:

I think it goes to show how great of a liar Dylan was.  Sue and Tom did not know what was truly going on with him, his friends, his teachers, hell even his counselor did not notice any issues.  They may have seen small things but never the big picture.

I agree. I have always said that Dylan was the better manipulator of the two.

Dylan doesn't come across as a liar to me really. Unless there are specific circumstances that I'm not aware of at the moment. Dylan hid everything inside. He didn't have to lie because no one was suspect. He didn't have parents to help him, he had adults that lived with him.

silentprocess wrote:

Dylan doesn't come across as a liar to me really.  Unless there are specific circumstances that I'm not aware of at the moment.  Dylan hid everything inside.  He didn't have to lie because no one was suspect.  He didn't have parents to help him, he had adults that lived with him.

He lied by omission. Hiding things inside he was lying about who he was. He lied about going to college, he lied about all of the times he got in trouble. But mostly the lying about who he really was is the biggest thing to me

silentprocess wrote:

Dylan doesn't come across as a liar to me really.  Unless there are specific circumstances that I'm not aware of at the moment.  Dylan hid everything inside.  He didn't have to lie because no one was suspect.  He didn't have parents to help him, he had adults that lived with him.

His ability to hide everything was what made him better at manipulation then Eric was. Dylan was the one who had everyone around him completely fooled. Which in my opinion made him the better liar of the two.

I guess we just have different definitions of lying. To me a lie has to be an intent to deceive someone. I don't believe Dylan had that intent, that's probably because I've suffered from severe depression myself all my life and I know.

Nice to know that you think all severely depressed people are liars. Because I know of no one that freely expresses their desires to die because of their depression.

silentprocess wrote:

I guess we just have different definitions of lying.  To me a lie has to be an intent to deceive someone.  I don't believe Dylan had that intent, that's probably because I've suffered from severe depression myself all my life and I know.

Nice to know that you think all severely depressed people are liars.  Because I know of no one that freely expresses their desires to die because of their depression.

I do not feel that way at all. If you read back on this forum you would see where i discuss my own depression. Almost exactly this time last year I went thru one of the worst times in my life including a suicide attempt of my own. I do NOT think all people with depression or mental illness are liars. From what I personally know about Columbine I would indeed call Dylan a liar.

silentprocess wrote:

Never do anything that will give us a bad name, image means everything to her.

Dylan! You had one job!

silentprocess wrote:

I guess we just have different definitions of lying.  To me a lie has to be an intent to deceive someone.  I don't believe Dylan had that intent, that's probably because I've suffered from severe depression myself all my life and I know.

Nice to know that you think all severely depressed people are liars.  Because I know of no one that freely expresses their desires to die because of their depression.

I do not think all depressed people are liars. But I do think Dylan wanted to die and was willing to do whatever he had to, and by whatever means necessary to achieve his own death. Which in my opinion absolutely included lying in one form or another. Saying he never had to lie because no one suspected or questioned him, is just more proof that he had everyone convinced he was fine. So he may have lied by omission, or just out right lied. Either way it is a moot point.

Ok I'll try to see it from your view.  Where in the columbine documents can we find him talking about lying and using deception?  I'll look them up and read it but don't know where to start.  People who intentionally lie and do so often become proud of their ability to deceive and it will eventually become apparent, it's all over Eric's writings.  Dylan will be the same if he was intentionally trying to deceive people.

Dylan had to write somewhere in all those years of writing that he had lied to someone, those were his personal thoughts and not intended for anyone else.

I just would like proof instead of assumptions.

I am on here during breaks at work. I don't have the time right now to go digging thru the entire 11k. I know you consider Sue to be a bit of a liar herself and bias toward Dylan so ignoring her, There were many people who asked Dylan how he was doing outright and he said he was fine. Outright answering is not hiding anything it is a lie.

Telling his teacher his paper was just a story was a lie.

In a way enrolling in college, driving across states to pick a dorm room and pretending to be interested is a lie. NOw this last one is an opinion of mine.

Go to the 11k and read the testimonies of those that actually knew Eric and Dylan. You can find this on acolumbinesite or broken down by subject here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In any case though, all of what I have said on this thread is my own personal opinion. I never met Dylan or Eric or Sue. I was not around when this was all going on. I have no facts of my own to present other than what others have said. This is just speculation on my part.

I am not asking for anyone to take my side or believe me over you. But when you give an opinion online there are people who will disagree and will state so. Its what makes a conversation.

silentprocess wrote:

Ok I'll try to see it from your view.  Where in the columbine documents can we find him talking about lying and using deception?  I'll look them up and read it but don't know where to start.  People who intentionally lie and do so often become proud of their ability to deceive and it will eventually become apparent, it's all over Eric's writings.  Dylan will be the same if he was intentionally trying to deceive people.

Dylan had to write somewhere in all those years of writing that he had lied to someone, those were his personal thoughts and not intended for anyone else.

I just would like proof instead of assumptions.

There are many times Dylan did in fact lie. But everyone has their own opinions, and often see things from different angles and viewpoints. But I'll just name one or two things off the top of my head without having to dig through documents. LOL!

In Sue's book she wrote she had smelled tobacco on Dylan. When she asked if he had been smoking, he said, "I'm not that stupid." While he didn't say no, he did skirt around the question. Which lead his mom to believe that he didn't smoke, when in fact he did.

He outright lied to his Diversion case worker, when asked about alcohol he said that he had only experimented with it a few times. When in fact he had apparently had enough experience with vodka to have adopted it as a nickname, and did drink often. As he stated in his journal. He talks about being partially drunk with a screw driver. Also in the basement tapes he was taking swings of whiskey.

So to my way of thinking these are lies he told to keep his parents off his back.

Yeah [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] we have completely different definitions of lies. I believe Dylans story was just that, a story, I think anything written as fiction is just a story. There are parallels of course and embellishments, but he didn't write about a high school bombing nor shooting students. He was expressing how he felt on paper not writing a manifesto.

Also Dylan acting like everything was normal up until the end, in my belief, was his last sliver of hope. I know Dylan "came up with the idea" which was obviously his personal thoughts in regards to his treatment and not something he would have acted out without Harris. I believe he wouldn't have done it if not for Harris pushing him and I think he believed that it could still not happen. Dylan was in a tough situation, parents that had interest in him as long as he was successful and not a problem, and a friend who shared how he felt and believed in him. Also in regards to this he could have been manic while doing this things, seeing things would work out and be ok and then have fallen back into his depression. In that case his intent would not have been to deceive. I think we assume much when we say we know what Dylan was thinking and his intents, especially when his writings reflect none of this. Sue we have books and quotes that show her true self.

Course that's all conjecture on my part. It also could have been that he made peace with his suicide and was just doing what a good son would do. Doing what your parents want you to do knowing you won't be there to do it is a huge stretch of a lie in my opinion. A depressed kid is supposed to tell their parents that he didn't plan on being alive to go to college? In a house that forced suppression of feelings or didn't understand them? Yeah... Dylans own father said it wasn't up to him to figure out why this happened.. LMAO WUT?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] those are indeed lies, because deception was the point of him saying those things. Of course I don't know of a teen that wouldn't do that. I and my brothers and even my nephew lied about drinking and smoking and that honestly is one of the standard teenager lies. It seems some people believe that Dylan was an Eric Harris level liar when he was anything but. Normal teen stuff, his depression wasn't a lie, hiding depression isn't a lie it's survival. People hide their mental issues all the time, not to deceive, but to just exist in society without being stigmatized. I know everyone here has not been 100% honest with others on what was going on inside of them.

Course that's all opinion you know? I don't believe hiding depression, anxiety and other mental issues is lying. Telling people these things as a teen would most likely cause counseling which at that era would do more damage than good (I know), more bullying when the kids at school found out, being ostracized, and who knows what other damage it would cause. People with depression hide it to protect themselves and those they love from suffering with them.

silentprocess wrote:

 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] those are indeed lies, because deception was the point of him saying those things.  Of course I don't know of a teen that wouldn't do that.  I and my brothers and even my nephew lied about drinking and smoking and that honestly is one of the standard teenager lies.  It seems some people believe that Dylan was an Eric Harris level liar when he was anything but.  Normal teen stuff, his depression wasn't a lie, hiding depression isn't a lie it's survival.  People hide their mental issues all the time, not to deceive, but to just exist in society without being stigmatized.  I know everyone here has not been 100% honest with others on what was going on inside of them.

Course that's all opinion you know?  I don't believe hiding depression, anxiety and other mental issues is lying.  Telling people these things as a teen would most likely cause counseling which at that era would do more damage than good (I know), more bullying when the kids at school found out, being ostracized, and who knows what other damage it would cause.  People with depression hide it to protect themselves and those they love from suffering with them.

As I said before, everyone has their own way of looking at things. What I see/think/feel/believe will be vastly different from you, because we are different people who have had different experiences in life.

Without a doubt Dylan was a master at hiding his true self, his true feelings. To be that convincing takes a lot of skill and practice. Either he lied as a way to seem normal and to just fly under the radar of life, OR he deceived and manipulated everyone in order to rouse no suspicion of what he and Eric had planned.

Unfortunately this is just another unanswered question to add to the Columbine list. We could debate this back and forth and still never see eye to eye.

silentprocess wrote:

Sue Klebold has said things that are inexplicable in my opinion.  Things that to me define her character and point directly to her part in everything that happened.  Her guilt lies beyond being simply the mother of a killer, her guilt is the creation of a killer.  

Some things Sue has said with my commentary then summary.

"Dylan did not do this because of the way he was raised, He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised."

Deflecting blame at it's finest.  Claiming no responsibility for something she had a direct hand in.  Raising a killer.  Dylan was not born a killer, regardless of her idiotic claim that she felt dread upon holding him as a baby.  Dylan was turned into a killer by his parents.

"I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness"

LMFAO, seriously?  You brought up a son who killed people....  That is a statement that boggles my mind.  That someone can be so arrogant as to not realize they can actually make mistakes.

"I don’t understand the decision and I don’t agree with it, but I’m going to support it. This will be resolved quickly if we comply with the ruling, and I don’t want to make a bad situation worse by alienating you from the people running the school."

Said to Dylan on the way home after being suspended for 5 days due to hacking the schools servers.  What does she care about in this situation?  She cares about how the administration feels about her and Dylan.  Her reputation always takes precedence over anything and everything else.  She can do no wrong and her child cannot either, if she would admit that he did she would shatter her fabricated lie of a life.

"I told Dylan he couldn’t allow the obnoxious behavior of others to upset him."

In regards to being bullied.  Nice Sue, tell your child to hold everything in and pretend everything's fine like you do.  Again shifting blame, Dylan couldn't have caused anything that led to "obnoxious behavior" from others.  Shifting blame is a common theme in Dylan's writings, no clue where he got that from.  Not dealing with emotions...  Comes from Sue as well.

"I have read in the years since that the scratch read ‘Fags’ — a slur I have also read was frequently leveled against Dylan and Eric in the hallways at Columbine — but we did not hear that from the school."

In her book, in regards to Dylan scratching "fags" on a locker.  Her son cannot be blamed because he himself was called a fag!!!  Justification of actions because something was done to you.  I'm sure her lessons helped Dylan justify NBK.  Another thing is it would tarnish her and her sons reputation and that could not happen since that's all that ever mattered to her.

"This lack of follow-through on my part was uncharacteristic, but indicative: I believed Dylan was a psychologically healthy human being. I never considered that the paper could be a reflection of deep-seated problems. I knew it contained some rough language and a dark theme, but had confidence that his teacher and the school counselor would handle the situation appropriately.”

In regards to the paper Dylan wrote.  Has Sue done any parenting...  Ever?!  Severe lack of interest in her own child. Sue feels no responsibility for Dylan nor his actions.  This is one of the major factors that really makes Sue the responsible party for Dylans involvement in Columbine.  Sue believes others should take care of it...  WTF?!  Other don't have an investment in your child...  But neither did Sue.   I believe she was fooled by Dylan because she herself taught him to live a lie.  Never do anything that will give us a bad name, image means everything to her.  More than her children.

"I can be in a doctor’s waiting room and still hope they call me by my first name, rather than shout out Mrs Klebold, every time I meet someone and give my name, there’s a moment of hesitancy where I watch their face very closely. They may say, 'Gee, why does that sound so familiar?'"

Stated in 2016.  Still to this day caring solely about her reputation, not taking responsibility.  Some say it could be shame, but she has shown no shame other than her son brought a bad reputation to their name.

"They had different brain conditions. I believe Dylan had some kind of a mood disorder. I believe psychopathy is in a different category. For whatever reason, the two were like magnetic poles. They stuck together. They fed each other. I don’t want to say someone commits crimes because they have a mental illness – that is not true – but I believe strongly that both Dylan and Eric were victims of their own pathology, just as everyone else was a victim of that pathology.”

Here is a great one.  Dylan didn't choose to do this, he couldn't make the choice because he was mentally ill.......  She claims to be an advocate for mental illness but is at a complete loss when it comes to understanding it.  She says someone doesn't commit crimes because of mental illness and then says they were victims of their own pathology, ok then Sue.  Dylan is a victim of your upbringing.  Sue will divert blame to anything at any given moment.

Another event that shows Sue's culpability is how she reacted to Dylan saying "Stop pushing me, Mom. I’m getting angry, and I don’t know how well I can control it." Sue apologized later...  WTF?!  Your son cannot control his anger and you don't question it?  You don't talk to him?  You apologize because you yourself cannot handle emotions and you taught your son the same, Sue just simply could not handle it because she didn't know how.

"I never had anger towards him, except for the moment when I saw the Basement Tapes at the sheriff’s department, six months after he died. I felt about a day of anger because he was bad-mouthing everybody and everything – family members – and pulling things out of his past, some incident in day care when he was three years old. He was trying to latch on to things that made him feel angry, and he was grasping at straws because he’d had such a good life. But I just couldn’t sustain that anger."

Is Sue even human?  Dylan can do no wrong, not when he's killing people...  But he cursed on a tape!!  No one can see that!  Destroy the basement tapes!!!  She is a very sick person.

"I feel that Dylan was a victim of some kind of malfunction going on in his brain. If you explained suicide to a child, your grandfather died because he got sick in his brain and hurt grandma and then he hurt himself. That’s my thinking with Dylan. The Dylan I knew and raised was a kind person. He was thoughtful. He was conscious-ridden, which is why this is still so difficult for me to understand. I feel a need to apologize to anyone who might be offended because I’m not angry at him, or don’t judge him. But I don’t, because he is my son, and because I believe that whatever killed all the others, killed him, too.”

Explaining why she's not mad about the actual massacre.  Doesn't even talk about the victims..  Because according to Sue there are only 2 victims, herself and Dylan.  Dylan didn't kill anyone, his mental illness killed everyone...  But...  Mental illness doesn't cause crimes.... Sue??  Sue??  It's hard to even respond to this quote honestly, it's just simply sickening.

"I had the distorted belief that Dylan belonged to me. He was mine. And when I see movies, or plays, or songs, I have a sense that someone is taking him away from me, that they’re claiming ownership of something they know nothing about."

In regards to books, movies, ect.  Showing her true colors finally.  Dylan belonged to Sue, his legacy belonged to her.  Why?  Because who benefitted the most from Columbine?  Sue.  Sue the advocate, Sue the speaker.... Sue the murderer.

I could list quotes all day long that show how self-righteous, arrogant, manipulative and disgusting this woman is.  Dylans' tragedy was her creation and her property.  She wanted to be the only one to benefit from it.  He did no wrong because his mental illness did it, which diverts blame and doesn't "tarnish" her family name.  She created the perfect façade, she had this façade before Columbine and continues it today.  Caring mother, devoted, loving...  Her ignorance and inability to deal with emotions or any event that would make her or Dylan look bad caused the whole massacre.

Dylan didn't want to live a lie like his mother, he wanted to be real but was never taught how.

Burn in hell Sue.

Thank you for reading!

Great post, I agree with everything you wrote.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Without a doubt Dylan was a master at hiding his true self, his true feelings. To be that convincing takes a lot of skill and practice. Either he lied as a way to seem normal and to just fly under the radar of life, OR he deceived and manipulated everyone in order to rouse no suspicion of what he and Eric had planned.

That's actually pretty much my point.  Dylan didn't have anyone around besides Eric to care enough about how he felt.  You can read from Sue or Tom's statements that they only cared about how people saw them.  Sue thought the teachers and administration would take care of Dylan cause that's what happened with him his whole life.  She didn't teach him any life lessons, she didn't have the time for it.  His father doesn't even care enough to wonder why Dylan did this, that's for others to determine.....  It's pretty obvious that even if Dylan wanted to lie, he had no opportunity to.  I'm sure Sue asked if Dylan was smoking not only because of the smell but because of how it would portray the family.

To hide things from people they have to actually want to know them.

Sorry, had to edit. A real parent would have talked to Dylan about his story, about his anger which he actually TOLD her he had. She not only ignored Dylan's cry for help she confirmed how he felt. His own mother didn't care enough to ask him how he was feeling.. Sue was one of the major factors that drove Dylan to feel the way he felt. It's all over the internet and in her book.

That's the whole point of the thread anyway. Look at everything she ignored, it's not that she didn't see it. She plain outright ignored Dylan. Blatantly without regret and then on top of it using her own son and his "legacy" to elevate herself.

There is nothing bad you could say about Sue Klebold that hasn't already been said a million times before. She's been blamed, persecuted, accosted in public, sued for millions of dollars, had her entire life destroyed, threatened with her life probably more times than she can remember, and lost a child in the process.

And sure, it would be nice if we could blame her. Then we'd have an easy answer.

But that is one thing you will not get in the Columbine case--an easy answer.

I thought Sue Klebold's book was the best one I've read on Columbine--and actually one of the best books I've read, period. She writes movingly about an unthinkable subject, and it's one of the most powerful statements about motherhood and a mother's love I've encountered. It was a remarkable book, and if it leads one parent to take a closer look at an at-risk child, it will have been worth it.

In the meantime, I'm not buying your simplistic explanation that Sue is somehow the villain behind Columbine. The whole situation is more complicated than that.

Sorry. Try again.

Lol, you don't have to buy it.  I'm simply pointing out statements she has made that are outright disturbing.

Imagine someone that disturbed raising children.  Look at her characteristics.  Examine her statements to Dylan and her reactions.  Look beyond the façade and her sob story book.  Analyze her interviews, the more you look at it the more apparent it becomes imo.

The thoughts were in Dylan before Eric was even in the picture.  So what pushed him into that?  It wasn't Eric.  Something happened somewhere along the line that messed him up.

In this quote she just outright says it:

Those of us who cared for Dylan felt responsible for his death. We thought, “If I had been a better (mother, father, brother, friend, aunt, uncle, cousin), I would have known this was coming.” We perceived his actions to be our failure. I tried to identify a pivotal event in his upbringing that could account for his anger. Had I been too strict? Not strict enough? Had I pushed too hard, or not hard enough? In the days before he died, I had hugged him and told him how much I loved him. I held his scratchy face between my palms and told him that he was a wonderful person and that I was proud of him. Had he felt pressured by this? Did he feel that he could not live up to my expectations?

Yes Sue you were responsible and you even stated what you had done. The pressure you put on a child that you had broken.

silentprocess wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Without a doubt Dylan was a master at hiding his true self, his true feelings. To be that convincing takes a lot of skill and practice. Either he lied as a way to seem normal and to just fly under the radar of life, OR he deceived and manipulated everyone in order to rouse no suspicion of what he and Eric had planned.

That's actually pretty much my point.  Dylan didn't have anyone around besides Eric to care enough about how he felt.  You can read from Sue or Tom's statements that they only cared about how people saw them.  Sue thought the teachers and administration would take care of Dylan cause that's what happened with him his whole life.  She didn't teach him any life lessons, she didn't have the time for it.  His father doesn't even care enough to wonder why Dylan did this, that's for others to determine.....  It's pretty obvious that even if Dylan wanted to lie, he had no opportunity to.  I'm sure Sue asked if Dylan was smoking not only because of the smell but because of how it would portray the family.

To hide things from people they have to actually want to know them.

Sorry, had to edit.  A real parent would have talked to Dylan about his story, about his anger which he actually TOLD her he had.  She not only ignored Dylan's cry for help she confirmed how he felt.  His own mother didn't care enough to ask him how he was feeling..  Sue was one of the major factors that drove Dylan to feel the way he felt.  It's all over the internet and in her book.

That's the whole point of the thread anyway.  Look at everything she ignored, it's not that she didn't see it.  She plain outright ignored Dylan.  Blatantly without regret and then on top of it using her own son and his "legacy" to elevate herself.

You seem to be trying to fully place the blame of Dylan's actions in his parents lap. Mainly his mother's. The blame rests with two people only, Eric and Dylan. No matter who bullied them, no matter what mental issues they suffered from, no matter how they were or were not raised. They decided to do this, they were not forced into it. They chose to try to blow up hundreds of innocent people. When that failed they instead gunned down 13, then took their own lives.  Nothing will ever excuse or justify what they did.

As I have said before, I do feel sympathy for both E&D. I feel both were in desperate need of help.  But lets place the blame where it ultimately belongs, and that is with Eric and Dylan, not their parents.

You may do that.  I have no issue with it whatsoever.  I believe differently, I believe we are a product of our environment.

When the USSR lost power and citizens had somewhat a semblance of freedom.  Why did some Russians only have one cow?  They could finally own more but they wouldn't buy more.  They were told for years that they could only own one cow.  They have a choice though don't they?  No, not in their minds.  

After someone is forced to believe something for years, it becomes who they are.  That's is on Sue.  Sure he chose.  He chose to escape what he viewed as a miserable life, one brought on by his parents expectations of him.  Your basically saying the egg came first and I the chicken.

What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

silentprocess wrote:

You may do that.  I have no issue with it whatsoever.  I believe differently, I believe we are a product of our environment.

When the USSR lost power and citizens had somewhat a semblance of freedom.  Why did some Russians only have one cow?  They could finally own more but they wouldn't buy more.  They were told for years that they could only own one cow.  They have a choice though don't they?  No, not in their minds.  

After someone is forced to believe something for years, it becomes who they are.  That's is on Sue.  Sure he chose.  He chose to escape what he viewed as a miserable life, one brought on by his parents expectations of him.  Your basically saying the egg came first and I the chicken.

What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

As I said before, we could argue this until the end of time, and we would still never see eye to eye. SO lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Am I the only one here that got a good laugh out of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] comment?!

Draw_It_White wrote:

silentprocess wrote:

Never do anything that will give us a bad name, image means everything to her.

Dylan! You had one job!

I thought that was good too.

Don't forget that both Eric & Dylan praised and mocked their parents.

I actually do agree with a couple of points the original poster picks up on. The thing about Sue holding Dylan and having the feeling he will bring great sorrow disturbs me somewhat. Why would she even come out with that?

When Sue says she wishes that Dylan would die, I don't believe that. It completely contradicts what she wrote in her essay for Oprah's magazine. In the essay she says during some point in the afternoon, it was confirmed that Dylan and Eric were the shooters up at the high school. She then goes on to say "that even though I knew others were suffering, I was focused on the safety of my own child". I kept asking the police "where's Dylan? Is he okay?".

She also said earlier in the essay that if anything were to ever happen to either of her children, she'd never get over it. I do not, for a second, believe this woman actually prayed for her own son to die.

Jenn wrote:

When Sue says she wishes that Dylan would die, I don't believe that. It completely contradicts what she wrote in her essay for Oprah's magazine. In the essay she says during some point in the afternoon, it was confirmed that Dylan and Eric were the shooters up at the high school. She then goes on to say "that even though I knew others were suffering, I was focused on the safety of my own child". I kept asking the police "where's Dylan? Is he okay?".

She also said earlier in the essay that if anything were to ever happen to either of her children, she'd never get over it. I do not, for a second, believe this woman actually prayed for her own son to die.

As a mother I cannot envision a time or circumstance that would make me pray for my child to die. It just goes beyond any maternal instinct I have.  Although I have never been faced with something as horrific as what Sue had to deal with. While I believe Sue may have actually wished or prayed for Dylan's death as a means to stop what was happening,  I don't believe she truly meant it.

silentprocess wrote:

Yes Sue you were responsible and you even stated what you had done.  The pressure you put on a child that you had broken.

I wonder how would you act on the site of Dylan's parents? How were they supposed to bring him up?

Draw_It_White wrote:

I actually do agree with a couple of points the original poster picks up on. The thing about Sue holding Dylan and having the feeling he will bring great sorrow disturbs me somewhat. Why would she even come out with that?

May have been a premonition of what was to come. If you believe in things of that sort.

Dylan never had to lie. He never had to actively do so because he just relied on the fact that his parents would trust him to manage his life responsibly. I'm sure his giftedness played a significant role in their long-standing dynamic of hands-off parenting and assuming the best out of him.  

Don't volunteer anything and they assume everything is fine with him.

If mom suspects he's smoking, deflect it and mom will feel bad for every doubting him in the first place.

I don't think he even thought about it really or played things a certain way intentionally, it's just how it was since he was a small child.

She can honestly find excuses all she wants but the fact she didn't give a damn that her older son is doing drugs (no matter how hard or recreational), her younger son smoking, stealing, being moody, scratching lockers, writing violent essays, being drunk and actually having bottles of alcohol in his room, bullying handicapped kids is really concerning. Yeah I know he was punished for stealing and went through various programs but let's be honest, Sue and Tom brushed it off as something that just "happened" where boys will be boys.

My parents had a much stronger lock on me, I couldn't get away with all this shit when I was a kid and not get questioned by my mom, no way.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I actually agree somewhat with your thread title but  not entirely and not for the same reasons you feel this way.

I do have great sympathy for what SK has been through. She lost her child in a nightmarish way for any parent and he's never coming back. She has to live with that forever.

Despite my sympathy, I am horrified and disgusted that Sue spent a large part of the book throwing Eric under the bus but portraying Dylan in as sympathetic light as you possibly could.
Sure, she has to admit that Dylan ended up a killer and what he did is terrible but she still portrays "Psychopath" Eric for leading her vulnerable son astray and being the fundamental reason this tragedy happened. That she would throw another troubled, dead kid under the bus to try to vindicate her family and make her son look less to blame and more deserving of sympathy and understanding disgusts me.

I understand it is a human thing for her to do but I will always be disgusted by that and for a woman who had years to reflect and research and think before writing this book, I don't feel its justified that she did so.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I was unaware Dylan's parents had a site. I doubt a random person on the internet talking to Sue would help her. It's very apparent where Dylan's mental issues originated from, they are hereditary and environmental. I would express to her my opinion though.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] That's exactly my point. I didn't have perfect parents but they actually cared enough to address severe issues in my life.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yes I believe this as well, Dylan was just doing what he was raised to do. Any "manipulation" on his part was just acting how he was taught to act.

Has there been discussion on why Dylan was trying to distance himself from Eric? According to SK for a while when Eric would call he would use her as an excuse to get out of plans. Maybe that was for show?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Has there been discussion on why Dylan was trying to distance himself from Eric? According to SK for a while when Eric would call he would use her as an excuse to get out of plans. Maybe that was for show?

Perhaps he was trying to make them think that he wanted distance from Eric, or maybe he truly did at that given time. It's hard to tell as Dylan's emotions were on a near constant roller coaster ride. Sue didn't mention how long this distancing ploy lasted.

The whole point of this post for me is. I believe Sue failed Dylan and for some reason that irritates me beyond belief. I know some people see Dylan as the worse one, I don't see him that way.

I see a lot of me in Dylan. Sadness, Grief, Loneliness, Depression. I just think she failed him utterly and not only that I seriously do think she took advantage of the situation as well. From everything I've read she has no understanding at all about mental health, she still doesn't even understand Dylan.

For some odd reason I wish she would have done something, anything at all, to help Dylan and change history so he just was another guy living an anonymous life. I wasn't saved, I still suffer daily from my issues. I just wish he didn't have to go through what he did I guess.

That's where my anger at Sue comes from, I'm not here to offend people, just express my views and I really do think what I posted is true. I don't want to convince anyone more than I want to expose Sue.

I would agree that both Dylan's parents and Eric's parents failed them in a way. I think Sue thought she had a closer relationship with Dylan than she did in reality. I think she prided herself as someone she thought her kids could come to with issues- and when they didn't she assumed that was because there were no issues.

She glossed over his transgressions as a teenager as well.

I think it is quite easy to blame Sue as opposed to the Harris family as they just seemed to shut down and close themselves away.

In the same vein though I do not blame her. Anyone can look back with hindsight to who Dylan was before with the knowledge of what he did and see the issues. Even Sue has admitted she had missed signs. None of us knew Dylan before Columbine. Would we have seen any of these issues ourselves if we had?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I believe I would have, it's much easier to recognize one of your own. That's perhaps why it bothers me even more because I could have helped. Helped him survive at least, I couldn't help him recover. Just irritates me that people don't pay enough attention to notice things that are actually quite apparent if you know what to look for.

silentprocess wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I believe I would have, it's much easier to recognize one of your own.  That's perhaps why it bothers me even more because I could have helped.  Helped him survive at least, I couldn't help him recover.  Just irritates me that people don't pay enough attention to notice things that are actually quite apparent if you know what to look for.

If I may ask, what would you have done to help him? I'm curious. Just because so many say he was beyond help.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] well we would have related through shared interest, I was a huge doomer and quake player and I'm familiar with guns since I was raised with them.. We also have some shared interest in music, although my taste is far better than Dylans . And then it's honestly as simple as listening and talking. I wouldn't have been exactly healthy for him I drank heavily and did stupid crap, but I never shot up a school.

He had no one to talk to that wanted to help him. Eric didn't want to and his parents were oblivious. No depressed kid wants to talk to their parents anyway, it would have to have been a peer...

Lizpuff wrote:

I would agree that both Dylan's parents and Eric's parents failed them in a way.  I think Sue thought she had a closer relationship with Dylan than she did in reality.  I think she prided herself as someone she thought her kids could come to with issues- and when they didn't she assumed that was because there were no issues.

She glossed over his transgressions as a teenager as well.

I think it is quite easy to blame Sue as opposed to the Harris family as they just seemed to shut down and close themselves away.

In the same vein though I do not blame her.  Anyone can look back with hindsight to who Dylan was before with the knowledge of what he did and see the issues.  Even Sue has admitted she had missed signs.  None of us knew Dylan before Columbine.  Would we have seen any of these issues ourselves if we had?

I agree with your sentiments. I just wanted to add my thoughts.

I believe that Susan, and in turn Dylan, suffered from an inability to be authentic. Parents can employ any number of parenting styles and some are more efficient at raising balanced individuals than others. I believe that Dylan may have blamed his parents (though he still loved them) because he wasn't given permission to express himself like a human being around them. It was all about being polite or well mannered, being accommodating and considerate of the other person ad nauseam. A projection. Reading Susan's book I got the impression that he was more of a 'pupil' in his own home that would be smacked with a ruler for bad behavior than a child with a genuine connection to his family. This is my own impression her of course, but I always thought she tried to raise him with 'textbook' perfection in mind. I mean, she seemed completely mortified when she discovered that Byron was smoking weed and I was thinking, "Uh, weren't you young in the 70's when EVERYONE was smoking weed? What century do you live in?"

I don't believe being authentic to her children (such as saying that it's normal to feel like you don't fit in or everyone feels lonely from time to time) was one of her strong suits at all. I don't think Dylan was taught (or shown) how to cultivate emotional relationships with others in an effective way. I would extend this to Eric too, being that he was brought up in a military family.

Obviously I'm not blaming either set of parents for the massacre but cultivating trust and a "I know exactly what you're going through" kind of attitude is immensely helpful when dealing with young ones and teenagers. I don't think E/D had that.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I grew up in a similar environment as Dylan. The whole "well we have meals together, she is doing well in school and we taught her to say no to drugs so she is PERFECT, no need to talk about anything else"

The only thing I slightly disagree with is, when it comes to Eric and especially Dylan trying to relate and saying "I know exactly what you're going through' probably wouldn't have helped. Dylan felt SO different and disconnected. It's hard to explain, I'm a lot better than I have been, being older now and getting help but I still have issues with people saying that to me... especially if I know they are in different situations. I get irritated for some reason.

My brother tried to tell me that my parents didn't understand what I was going through in school but I just had to get over it. School wasn't just torture, being in my own mind and not feeling connected was even worse. Oddly I am told by people I went to school with that they thought I was so nice and shy.. and I felt like a monster.

Screamingophelia wrote:

School wasn't just torture, being in my own mind and not feeling connected was even worse. Oddly I am told by people I went to school with that they thought I was so nice and shy.. and I felt like a monster.

I have always said the scariest place in the world is inside my own head at times.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

School wasn't just torture, being in my own mind and not feeling connected was even worse. Oddly I am told by people I went to school with that they thought I was so nice and shy.. and I felt like a monster.

I have always said the scariest place in the world is inside my own head at times.

This is very true. My anxiety comes out as ruminating thoughts. I think and think and think and obsess over everything until I am terrified of itty bitty things. It can be horrible

Some of you read too much into things. If I knew my son was actively shooting people somewhere let alone at school, I would wish for him to die as well. Some of you act like he was being beaten and whipped on a daily basis. Can you blame her stance and thoughts on Eric? if she is insane then a million other parents must be too like Brooks Browns parents. Give it a rest. If anything I feel staying private not speaking about what happened ever pretending your son never existed (Eric's parents) is worse.