| Eric's dates | |
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+5Littlelo silentprocess Screamingophelia Lizpuff Rebbie556 9 posters |
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Rebbie556
Posts : 475 Contribution Points : 97281 Forum Reputation : 225 Join date : 2017-01-30
| Subject: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:46 pm | |
| I always find it interesting that pretty much every girl Eric went out with described him as “weird” and “uncomfortable” but continued going on dates with him anyway. What’s up with that? | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:59 pm | |
| A lot of them did not actually continue to date him after the first date. He did date Sasha for a bit but I am not sure how many times they went out.
I think outwardly Eric was just a bit weird. Skinny short different clothing but nothing to make you not want to date him. He wasn't horrible looking. And he did seem nice I am sure when you first met him.
Then you go out with him and realize he is more than awkward either sitting in silence or talking about things like people picking on him or violent topics and realize you don't have anything in common with him. _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:28 pm | |
| - Lizpuff wrote:
- A lot of them did not actually continue to date him after the first date. He did date Sasha for a bit but I am not sure how many times they went out.
I think outwardly Eric was just a bit weird. Skinny short different clothing but nothing to make you not want to date him. He wasn't horrible looking. And he did seem nice I am sure when you first met him.
Then you go out with him and realize he is more than awkward either sitting in silence or talking about things like people picking on him or violent topics and realize you don't have anything in common with him. I have always thought the fact he would willingly tell girls about being picked on very strange. He always tried to act so tough all the time, yet he would undermine that by confiding in random girls about something that was very embarrassing to him. Although he may have been using it to get sympathy from them. Most girls didn't/don't want to hear a guy whining about getting picked on. If Eric was doing it for sympathy, then it likely ended in the girls thinking he was just pathetic, among the other reason they stated of not liking him. |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:31 pm | |
| - ShadowedGoddess wrote:
- Lizpuff wrote:
- A lot of them did not actually continue to date him after the first date. He did date Sasha for a bit but I am not sure how many times they went out.
I think outwardly Eric was just a bit weird. Skinny short different clothing but nothing to make you not want to date him. He wasn't horrible looking. And he did seem nice I am sure when you first met him.
Then you go out with him and realize he is more than awkward either sitting in silence or talking about things like people picking on him or violent topics and realize you don't have anything in common with him.
I have always thought the fact he would willingly tell girls about being picked on very strange. He always tried to act so tough all the time, yet he would undermine that by confiding in random girls about something that was very embarrassing to him. Although he may have been using it to get sympathy from them.
Most girls didn't/don't want to hear a guy whining about getting picked on. If Eric was doing it for sympathy, then it likely ended in the girls thinking he was just pathetic, among the other reason they stated of not liking him. I have always been sort of fascinated by what Susan said they talked about on Prom night. I agree it is strange that he would always talk about being picked on. Maybe he just didn't know what else to talk about. _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:41 pm | |
| Kind of like Dylan getting mad in his writings about not being able to talk about suicide with a girl, around the time Zach and Devon started dating. He was angry that Zach could talk about wanting to commit but he couldn't. I wonder how long into knowing the girl did Dylan start talking about it? Even people who are older who are going through bad things will be VERY hard pressed to find a new possible date open to hearing about a lot of serious issues first off, like "nice to meet you, here is all my baggage"
Being described as weird or odd sometimes isn't a bad thing, some people like an oddball.
That's an interesting question about prom night... could you imagine his train of thought "Being picked on... doesn't matter anymore... umm.. what are you doing Tuesday? No, she'll ask why I'm specifically asking about Tuesday..."
I remember when I was 15 I really liked a boy, and he liked me but too many people were asking me questions about our budding little romance and I got uncomfortable and stopped talking to him completely. I liked him a lot too and I always felt bad, we're facebook friends and I sometimes want to apologize to him for being a jerk LOL. So, it could have been as simple as that.
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:44 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- Kind of like Dylan getting mad in his writings about not being able to talk about suicide with a girl, around the time Zach and Devon started dating. He was angry that Zach could talk about wanting to commit but he couldn't. I wonder how long into knowing the girl did Dylan start talking about it? Even people who are older who are going through bad things will be VERY hard pressed to find a new possible date open to hearing about a lot of serious issues first off, like "nice to meet you, here is all my baggage"
Being described as weird or odd sometimes isn't a bad thing, some people like an oddball.
That's an interesting question about prom night... could you imagine his train of thought "Being picked on... doesn't matter anymore... umm.. what are you doing Tuesday? No, she'll ask why I'm specifically asking about Tuesday..."
I remember when I was 15 I really liked a boy, and he liked me but too many people were asking me questions about our budding little romance and I got uncomfortable and stopped talking to him completely. I liked him a lot too and I always felt bad, we're facebook friends and I sometimes want to apologize to him for being a jerk LOL. So, it could have been as simple as that.
I was under the impression that Dylan never tried to talk to anyone about suicide. Moreso that he was just lamenting he had no one to talk to about it. Do you think he did talk suicide to a girl? And if so who? _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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silentprocess
Posts : 167 Contribution Points : 67334 Forum Reputation : 0 Join date : 2017-07-20
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:45 pm | |
| Maybe Eric knew of Dylans idea of going NBK with a girl and was trying to see if anyone shared his feelings, if they could relate on that he could possibly delve deeper.
I don't know if that's even a possibility.
It could have simply been something he wanted to relate with someone besides Dylan. Regardless it was an important part of his life at that time or he wouldn't even breach the subject. _________________ There are no laws of nature that prevent humans from making choices.
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:55 pm | |
| I'll have to read that part again, because he could have just been venting. I was thinking Sarah Slater, he had a crush on her and they talked a lot when Dylan was sad, but I don't think Zach had met Devon yet since she was what, 2 years younger?
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:59 pm | |
| - silentprocess wrote:
- Maybe Eric knew of Dylans idea of going NBK with a girl and was trying to see if anyone shared his feelings, if they could relate on that he could possibly delve deeper.
I don't know if that's even a possibility.
It could have simply been something he wanted to relate with someone besides Dylan. Regardless it was an important part of his life at that time or he wouldn't even breach the subject. Wow I NEVER thought of that possibility. I also found it strange he would willingly tell girls he was picked on, but never thought that maybe he was looking for someone to relate to him. Maybe not necessarily trying to find a girl to go NBK with, but it's an interesting thought... | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:01 pm | |
| I have also thought that since Eric seemed closer to his mom, maybe he was just more comfortable letting the Reb mask slip when he was with a girl. Possibly in the hopes that she would be accept the real him. Who in his own opinion, was a loser that got picked on.
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:16 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- Being described as weird or odd sometimes isn't a bad thing, some people like an oddball.
I always assumed the girls had just picked up the same strange vibe, a gut feeling that something wasn't right with Eric, and they couldn't place a finger on it enough to explain it. So they just said it was things like "He was to quiet, wasn't friendly, just wasn't my taste, " etc. It was just weird that almost every girl he was interested in would have almost the same reaction to him.
Last edited by ShadowedGoddess on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:23 pm | |
| There was probably something Eric was putting out, and it may have been unconscious on his part. Which is annoying probably for him, because how do you change it? He and Dylan were always labeled as very different from others, you keep telling people that, they embrace it, then it can become toxic. I'm different, therefore better, therefore the rules don't apply to me. I'm just speculating now.
I agree with the idea of Eric wanted to find someone to relate to. Maybe he was also doing it for sympathy, being a bit softie for women. Dylan was the one who had the "romantic" ideal for NBK being with him and a woman he loves, then they would die and be together for eternity on a different plane of existence.
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:24 pm | |
| Did any of them comment on whether or not Eric was polite and respectful (e.g. Opening doors, complimenting them)? His parents would have no doubt tried to raise him that way.
Dylan wrote somewhere that he hated sexists and people who were "assholes to chicks".
EDIT: I know in his journal, Eric talked about who he could trick into his bed first. I wonder if that was all talk, or if he really tried but was terrible at it. He was obviously relentless asking certain girls out, as many have testified to.
Last edited by Littlelo on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:26 pm | |
| I'm not entirely sure but I'd assume so.
I never heard that about Dylan but both them seemed to have been raised to be polite and respectful. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:27 pm | |
| - Littlelo wrote:
- Did any of them comment on whether or not Eric was polite and respectful (e.g. Opening doors, complimenting them)? His parents would have no doubt tried to raise him that way.
Dylan wrote somewhere that he hated sexists and people who were "assholes to chicks". Susan did on prom night. She told him she had a headache and he offered her tylenol and told her she could wait inside while her car warmed up among other things. She said he seemed polite. There is a 11k thread on the documents area that has her testimony in it. _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:29 pm | |
| [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that's right! I forgot about that. She also said he put his arm around her and kissed her on the cheek I believe? | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:29 pm | |
| - Littlelo wrote:
- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that's right! I forgot about that. She also said he put his arm around her and kissed her on the cheek I believe?
yep you are correct! _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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1Mare1
Posts : 426 Contribution Points : 66819 Forum Reputation : 10 Join date : 2017-08-01
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:33 pm | |
| I guess Eric's awkwardness was a major turn off in dates he attempted to have. I can picture how they went, possibly he would be quiet and lack topics to talk about. I wouldn't say his presence scared the girls off, though. | |
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:40 pm | |
| I always thought it was interesting that on prom night, Susan got a page from her sister telling her to come home but she chose to stay another half hour. She could have easily used that as an excuse to leave, which leads me to believe she wasn't in a hurry.
I wonder if she knew Eric was going to an after-prom party that night as well. He did, didn't he? | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:45 pm | |
| Thanks for that info Lizpuff!
They seemed to have had fun and connected enough for him to say goodbye to her in the last BT _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:58 pm | |
| - Littlelo wrote:
- I wonder if she knew Eric was going to an after-prom party that night as well. He did, didn't he?
Yes, he met up with Dylan later that night. |
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:05 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- Thanks for that info Lizpuff!
They seemed to have had fun and connected enough for him to say goodbye to her in the last BT I tend to think he only mentioned her because he hadn't been rejected by her yet. Susan was just the most recent girl he was interested in that gave him a chance. We all know Eric moved from one love interest to another pretty quickly throughout the years, and who knows what would have happened with Susan. I could be completely wrong though! | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:21 pm | |
| From what I understand Eric talked to Kristi that night at the after prom party and a few other girls, they both (Eric and Dylan) genuinely had a good time according to a lot of people who were there.
Littlelo, you could be right. Even Dylan had his "romantic' moment, granted with Devon who was there with Zach and I guess he held hands with Robyn, probably more for her benefit than his.
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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1Mare1
Posts : 426 Contribution Points : 66819 Forum Reputation : 10 Join date : 2017-08-01
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:20 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
Littlelo, you could be right. Even Dylan had his "romantic' moment, granted with Devon who was there with Zach and I guess he held hands with Robyn, probably more for her benefit than his.
Is it correct Dylan kissed Devon in the forehead on the prom night? It was really a big move for him. | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 101424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:37 pm | |
| - 1Mare1 wrote:
- Screamingophelia wrote:
Littlelo, you could be right. Even Dylan had his "romantic' moment, granted with Devon who was there with Zach and I guess he held hands with Robyn, probably more for her benefit than his.
Is it correct Dylan kissed Devon in the forehead on the prom night? It was really a big move for him. According to her yes. I believe it. _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:13 pm | |
| They both knew they had nothing to lose by that point and if they tried to make a move on someone they liked and were denied, it wouldn't matter in a couple days anyway. That makes me think they were just so painfully shy or awkward with girls, it was not something they were capable of. | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:24 am | |
| He did kiss Devon on the forehead, she was safe though because she was with Zach., so no fear of rejection I have had guy friends who have pecked on me on the lips and slow danced with me with girlfriends....
It is interesting whenever it's brought up about how shy and awkward they were with girls, considering the amount of times people say they asked girls out.
Robyn supposedly had a huge crush on him but Dylan was the one not interested.
I was also incorrect when I said Dylan was rejected when he talked about suicide. Dylan said he was said because Zach was able to talk to Devon about that but HE couldn't complain about jocks without being demonized.
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:14 pm | |
| I guess I can clarify that they weren't too shy not to ask girls out, but when it came to anything more, I'm betting they either didn't get the chance or chickened out. Just my two cents though! | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:03 am | |
| Excellent point! Even though both of them wanted that kind of affection. Eric was raunchier about it for laxk of a better word. Then you have Dylan with his foot fetush but just wanted to hold your hand. Lol
As far as I know neither of them ever call themselves ugly. Maybe Dylan? but Eric never... they described themselves as different and shy _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Rebbie556
Posts : 475 Contribution Points : 97281 Forum Reputation : 225 Join date : 2017-01-30
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:08 am | |
| [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "give vodka Porn CDs" I don't wanna know.... Eric had crappy writing btw lmao! And I'm confused did he really hate what he wrote? Example: makes racist nicknames list also Eric: hates racism. how?? | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:27 am | |
| [quote="Littlelo"] - silentprocess wrote:
- . I also found it strange he would willingly tell girls he was picked on
He could of wanted a girl to be nice to hima nd comfort him, girls are usually nice like that. |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:05 am | |
| E&D watched a lot of D movies/soft core semi pornos together. Like Cavegirl Island.
He wanted to be a contradiction. He wanted people to pour over his journals and ask questions. He also said he hates liars but that HE could lie and he was good at it.
Also back in the late 90's it wasn't as PC. A lot of words you used back then just be be edgy or "funny" wouldn't fly now.
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Rebbie556
Posts : 475 Contribution Points : 97281 Forum Reputation : 225 Join date : 2017-01-30
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:47 pm | |
| He told the girls about being picked on because teachers didn't give a damn? Maybe he was looking for help before it was too late... No one's seems to take responsibility there for bullying .Maybe it's not only E&D's fault ?everyone who knew the boys said they were normal kids. How many students said they were bullied? Btw. Is Sue Klebold really here? "It happened unexpected, they were just psychopaths" exactly....(I do not condone what the boys did)
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:59 pm | |
| I don't imagine Sue is on this board/I hope not...
I often want to apologize to Yumeko every time I mention E&D.... I don't condone, I PROMISE, promise. If I ever did again meet someone associated with the case in person I would keep my lips quite sealed.
There was a huge bullying issue at Columbine for a long time. A kid got his hair set on fire and no one did anything about it. I'm sure there were far more instances than that.
Maybe when E&D talked about being picked on and feeling isolated and disrespected there was always that angry element to it and it fueled their rage but when he talked to others about it he could be more vulnerable? | |
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:29 pm | |
| Maybe Eric talked about being picked on to different girls because it was just a normal occurrence in the school and a regular topic of conversation between people. That would be an even sadder thought. | |
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Tracy
Posts : 23 Contribution Points : 65734 Forum Reputation : 0 Join date : 2017-10-14
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:36 pm | |
| - ShadowedGoddess wrote:
I always assumed the girls had just picked up the same strange vibe, a gut feeling that something wasn't right with Eric, and they couldn't place a finger on it enough to explain it. So they just said it was things like "He was to quiet, wasn't friendly, just wasn't my taste, " etc.
It was just weird that almost every girl he was interested in would have almost the same reaction to him. It doesn't surprise me. Most of us have known boys like Eric and Dylan at some point. They just don't know how to act around girls and it chases them away. One boy in high school I will never forget. His name was Jason(Hi if you ever read this!!). I was a junior, he was a sophomore. Instant crush the moment I laid eyes on him. He was very shy and only had a couple friends, and they were casual friends at best. He wasn't easy to get to know and I was the opposite of him, very social, many friends, etc. Over time it got to the point where I'd practically drool at the sight of him. Later that year we wound up in a class together and after talking to him a bit off and on, asked him if he'd study with me after school. It was perfect timing(for me anyways). I had recently broke up with my BF....and my fantasies of Jason were in overdrive. I went to his house after school one day....and it all came crashing down. He couldn't communicate properly and would barely look me in the eye. It was very uncomfortable. I left and we barely talked at all the rest of the school year. Senior year I tried talking to him again during lunch one day and nothing had improved. I gave up and never talked to him again. I felt bad for him. Still do actually. I knew he liked me but he just couldn't handle it. I always wondered if he knew how close he was to having me. - Littlelo wrote:
- They both knew they had nothing to lose by that point and if they tried to make a move on someone they liked and were denied, it wouldn't matter in a couple days anyway. That makes me think they were just so painfully shy or awkward with girls, it was not something they were capable of.
I agree. They 'froze' when it counts. The whole issue with girls is one of the tragedies underneath the real tragedy of Columbine. They were lonely. Socially awkward....shy....depressed....and lonely. While Columbine is very complex, I am in the group who believes this whole nightmare could've been avoided if they had simply got girlfriends. It may sound shallow but they really needed them and it would've done wonders with their confidence/self esteem. They had a LOT of built up anger. It just kept growing and growing. It needed release. If they had girlfriends, instead of shooting off guns dreaming of a school massacre, they're planning on getting to third base and a home run. Instead of filming themselves venting rage at humanity in general, they're making out with their girlfriends at the movies. Dylan's rage over his friend getting a GF is telling. IMO it comes across as envy more than it does anything else. Speaking of them having "nothing to lose"..... The lack of an obvious sexual component to the Columbine massacre has always intrigued me. At zero hour....they're temporary gods. As you said, they've got nothing to lose. They'll be dead later that day. They can do as they please....which could've easily included rape. Not only is there no rape, girls weren't targeted as a specific group like you see in some other massacres. It became random. There's no outward method to the underlying madness. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:45 pm | |
| - Tracy wrote:
- ShadowedGoddess wrote:
I always assumed the girls had just picked up the same strange vibe, a gut feeling that something wasn't right with Eric, and they couldn't place a finger on it enough to explain it. So they just said it was things like "He was to quiet, wasn't friendly, just wasn't my taste, " etc.
It was just weird that almost every girl he was interested in would have almost the same reaction to him. It doesn't surprise me. Most of us have known boys like Eric and Dylan at some point. They just don't know how to act around girls and it chases them away.
One boy in high school I will never forget. His name was Jason(Hi if you ever read this!!). I was a junior, he was a sophomore. Instant crush the moment I laid eyes on him. He was very shy and only had a couple friends, and they were casual friends at best. He wasn't easy to get to know and I was the opposite of him, very social, many friends, etc. Over time it got to the point where I'd practically drool at the sight of him. Later that year we wound up in a class together and after talking to him a bit off and on, asked him if he'd study with me after school. It was perfect timing(for me anyways). I had recently broke up with my BF....and my fantasies of Jason were in overdrive.
I went to his house after school one day....and it all came crashing down. He couldn't communicate properly and would barely look me in the eye. It was very uncomfortable. I left and we barely talked at all the rest of the school year. Senior year I tried talking to him again during lunch one day and nothing had improved. I gave up and never talked to him again.
I felt bad for him. Still do actually. I knew he liked me but he just couldn't handle it. I always wondered if he knew how close he was to having me.
- Littlelo wrote:
- They both knew they had nothing to lose by that point and if they tried to make a move on someone they liked and were denied, it wouldn't matter in a couple days anyway. That makes me think they were just so painfully shy or awkward with girls, it was not something they were capable of.
I agree. They 'froze' when it counts.
The whole issue with girls is one of the tragedies underneath the real tragedy of Columbine.
They were lonely. Socially awkward....shy....depressed....and lonely. While Columbine is very complex, I am in the group who believes this whole nightmare could've been avoided if they had simply got girlfriends. It may sound shallow but they really needed them and it would've done wonders with their confidence/self esteem.
They had a LOT of built up anger. It just kept growing and growing. It needed release. If they had girlfriends, instead of shooting off guns dreaming of a school massacre, they're planning on getting to third base and a home run. Instead of filming themselves venting rage at humanity in general, they're making out with their girlfriends at the movies.
Dylan's rage over his friend getting a GF is telling. IMO it comes across as envy more than it does anything else.
Speaking of them having "nothing to lose".....
The lack of an obvious sexual component to the Columbine massacre has always intrigued me. At zero hour....they're temporary gods. As you said, they've got nothing to lose. They'll be dead later that day. They can do as they please....which could've easily included rape. Not only is there no rape, girls weren't targeted as a specific group like you see in some other massacres. It became random. There's no outward method to the underlying madness.
I just can't get behind the whole "A girlfriend would have saved them" thing. IF either had actually found a steady girl, it may have very temporarily made them feel somewhat better about themselves for a short period of time. BUT them being in a relationship would NOT have stopped the mental issues both clearly suffered from. More so Dylan then Eric in my opinion. Any relationship they had would have likely ended badly. Dylan was in love with the idea of being in love with the PERFECT girl. If he had found a girlfriend I doubt the relationship would have lasted when she didn't meet his expectations of his Halcyon dream girl. I think Dylan was likely in love with a figment of his own imagination. Eric dated off and on, and none of those worked out. You can't say it was the girls fault, because the common denominator in those few failed relationships was Eric. He was very hotheaded, very petty minded, held grudges over tiny things, etc. Some of the girls who dated him gave the impression that he was scary. What that means is anyone's guess. While other girls who he tried to date said he was very persistent, the type who didn't take "NO" for an answer. So I think it would be safe to say that little Eric would have been a very demanding, possibly a very controlling boyfriend if things had gotten past a random movie date here and there and had actually made it to a real relationship. Add in the fact that he had some serious self esteem issues, with a healthy dose of depression and equal parts of anger, and you have a recipe that is just a bad mix altogether. If Eric and Dylan had gotten the help they both needed then that would be a different story altogether. But in their current mental state at the time, no relationship would have saved them for long. |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:42 pm | |
| Both of the boys would have had serious issues had they gotten into any long term relationship. I do think they were both in a way very self concious and maybe having doubts about making moves on girls before NBK. They had nothing to lose, so why didn't they try anything with Susan and Robyn respectfully? I still contend (hearsay from Dylan's friends etc) that Robyn was pretty into Dylan and would have at least fancied a kiss from him, but they didn't try anything. Did they not want their friends to have those kinds of memories of them? Would you want your story of sex on prom night to be with someone who commits a mass murder a few days later? It's annoying though that not getting any or not a lot in HS and college is stigmatized. Some people I know didn't get into serious relationships or lose their V card until AFTER college and were for all intents and purposes kind, hard working and not bad looking at all.. it just didn't come easily to them Here is an interesting article I found that talks about this topic, from Jeff Kass. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] He says Eric Harris was this wildly popular student, especially with the girls -- that he's dating or having sex with all these girls at school. And I totally disagree with that. I don't find any attribution in his book or in the end notes for that. I don't know where it comes from. I'd like to know. And he says similar things about Dylan. He says Dylan had all these friends, and that he was well-connected at school and at least was more popular than we thought he was. And I don't know where he comes up with that, either.
"Now, maybe you can find a study showing that if you have five close friends, you're a normal high school student in America," he goes on. "But even if you could prove that Dylan had five close friends, that doesn't mean he was a normal high school student, because Dylan didn't believe that himself. Dylan was blinded to friends by his depression, and Eric was blinded to any friends he had by his rage. So I think you're in this academic situation. You could say, 'Gee, Eric and Dylan, you had a lot of friends, and you lived these great middle-class lives.' But that didn't get through to them. They thought their lives were miserable. So it's a classic case of perception versus reality."
As for Kass' perceptions, he says, "I think both Eric and Dylan died virgins. And even though it's sort of a weird topic to get into -- their sex lives -- I really think it's illustrative of how well-connected, or not connected, they were to the school community. I feel they were outcasts.
_________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Rebbie556
Posts : 475 Contribution Points : 97281 Forum Reputation : 225 Join date : 2017-01-30
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:03 am | |
| Another interesting thing I think, no one really talks from what I have seen, maybe because it can be weird, considering he was 17 at the time, but Dylan's shame in sex and his desires. Which seem VERY vanilla... at least to me.
He wasn't raised religious and in AMR Sue said she taught Byron and Dylan about safe and ethical sex, which is more than my parents did. My mom said NEVER have it because you will get pregnant and die and my dad said when I get to college just use condoms..... _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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VoDKaComeHere
Posts : 134 Contribution Points : 65390 Forum Reputation : 25 Join date : 2017-12-24
| Subject: @ShadowedGoddess Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:36 am | |
| It was probally because he felt more comfortable venting about it to girls than with male friends. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:08 pm | |
| - VoDKaComeHere wrote:
- It was probally because he felt more comfortable venting about it to girls than with male friends.
I agree. In my opinion Eric seemed to be closer to him mom, and even talked to her about not being able to find a date for prom. I think he was likely used to having a sympathetic female ear. So he probably did feel more at ease talking about his issues with a girl. |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:18 pm | |
| - ShadowedGoddess wrote:
- Screamingophelia wrote:
- My mom said NEVER have it because you will get pregnant and die and my dad said when I get to college just use condoms.....
Damn that was advice on very different ends of the spectrum! I was quite the conflicted teen when it came to sex. Another reason I sometimes wonder why people say because Eric and Dylan were virgins they never had a first kiss, because they didn't have a serious girlfriend and Dylan was shy... I was completely shy, inept, not very attractive and had no idea what I was doing and I kissed 3 boys before I was 16. No real boyfriend until I was 22... lots of kissing before then though. All the making out in the world though would not stop the massacre. How nice would it be if that could stop violence? | |
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:28 pm | |
| No one was going to be good enough for either of them. They would have found an issue. And even if they had found a girlfriend it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Eric didn't even stick around long enough to see if things could work out with Susan, they hung out one time. He just wanted to see if he could get any action before his inevitable death. | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:34 pm | |
| - Littlelo wrote:
- No one was going to be good enough for either of them. They would have found an issue. And even if they had found a girlfriend it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Eric didn't even stick around long enough to see if things could work out with Susan, they hung out one time. He just wanted to see if he could get any action before his inevitable death.
Especially with Dylan, I know Shadowed has joked if she sneezed wrong he would have an issue but honestly, she's right... I think Dylan would have found an issue and pushed her away. It's good neither of them had girlfriends on 4/20, look at what happened to their friends. What kind of hell would those girls have gone through on top of the 99% chance of being in school that day and seeing your boyfriend running around the school laughing and shooting people? I think there is a YA novel about that.. not Eric and Dylan but a school shooting where the guy had a girlfriend. I read about it when I was reading about the movie April Showers, which is about Columbine too. | |
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:37 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- Littlelo wrote:
- No one was going to be good enough for either of them. They would have found an issue. And even if they had found a girlfriend it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Eric didn't even stick around long enough to see if things could work out with Susan, they hung out one time. He just wanted to see if he could get any action before his inevitable death.
Especially with Dylan, I know Shadowed has joked if she sneezed wrong he would have an issue but honestly, she's right... I think Dylan would have found an issue and pushed her away.
It's good neither of them had girlfriends on 4/20, look at what happened to their friends. What kind of hell would those girls have gone through on top of the 99% chance of being in school that day and seeing your boyfriend running around the school laughing and shooting people?
I think there is a YA novel about that.. not Eric and Dylan but a school shooting where the guy had a girlfriend. I read about it when I was reading about the movie April Showers, which is about Columbine too. I think about that possibility a lot. I'm sure Robyn and Susan were majorly affected as they were the last female to spend time with each of them before the shooting, and neither of them were even dating. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:38 pm | |
| I still can't shake the feeling that Dylan's Halcyon girl was likely just a figment of his very overactive imagination. |
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Littlelo
Posts : 1210 Contribution Points : 71753 Forum Reputation : 90 Join date : 2017-04-26
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:40 pm | |
| - ShadowedGoddess wrote:
- I still can't shake the feeling that Dylan's Halcyon girl was likely just a figment of his very overactive imagination.
After Randy Stair I seriously entertained this idea too, but I think I read something in his journal that ruled it out for me. | |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6449 Contribution Points : 198628 Forum Reputation : 1327 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 37
| Subject: Re: Eric's dates Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:44 pm | |
| - Littlelo wrote:
- ShadowedGoddess wrote:
- I still can't shake the feeling that Dylan's Halcyon girl was likely just a figment of his very overactive imagination.
After Randy Stair I seriously entertained this idea too, but I think I read something in his journal that ruled it out for me. I think his Halcyon girl was one specific girl but he had crushes on a bunch throughout the year. I wonder if he got crushes very easy at some point. Like a "Dylan, you dropped your pen' smile and Dylan was all like "Ah! She's the one, she's wearing a green shirt, my favorite color. I am in LOVE!" | |
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