E/D and Girls

This might sound like a silly question but I'm going to throw if out there anyways. Do you think E/D kissed anyone? Maybe Eric because he had a bit more luck with the ladies but I'm not sure. What do you guys think?

I don't think Dylan ever kissed a girl. Too shy to act on it, I guess? I'm not too sure on Eric, but his behaviour with Susan leads me to think that he never got beyond kissing a girl's cheek either. (He did supposedly have that 'girlfriend' back in Plattsburgh, though, so who knows? Maybe he did have a first kiss?)

I tend to think that neither kissed a girl properly on the lips.  

I also don't think Eric had any luck with the ladies. That description sounds too Cullenesque!  While I'll give Eric credit for trying hard to get girls, he had absolutely no luck cultivating a relationship.  Sadly, Eric really had the opportunity to kiss Susan DeWitt on the lips, or even have a little makeout session with her before the parents got home, but he didn't take a risk in that regard.  Instead, he opted for a kiss on the cheek.  It's sad to think he couldn't have experienced more with a girl but I would guess he didn't want to "start bonding" with her before NBK.  As for Eric's other past dates, I get the feeling he turned them off long before any intimacy opportunities came up.  

I agree that Dylan was far too shy so never kissed a girl.  Simply being alone with a girl he liked probably was too intense for him to handle.  I think Dylan needed to be around girls in the company of others so it wouldn't be so overwhelming or in a friendship situation like with Devon or Robyn.  Sasha Jacobs said she dated him once or twice and didn't feel comfortable around Dylan. I can well imagine how awkward that date would've been.   Alas, not enough self confidence for Dylan.  Otherwise, if he had it, I am more than sure he would've had girlfriends.

I'm leaning towards that side as well.

Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like I believed Cullen and thought Eric was a Casanova. I also give Eric a lot of credit for putting himself out there and never giving up when it came to girls. I really do believe that some type of relationship could have formed between him and Susan. It's sad how that never ended up happening.

On prom night people in their group said Dylan was being very confident which was so unlike him so perhaps he actually did end up kissing Robyn.

Does anyone think age matters with these types of experiences? I don't but I would love to hear other people's opinions.

Considering that Eric only kissed Susan on the cheek, I'm going to assume he never kissed a girl properly. Maybe he had a quick peck on the lips once, but never a real kiss.

Reading over this thread, I feel deeply, deeply sorry for E/D. I had my first serious relationship at 15, and by the time I was E/D's age, I'd kissed many times.

It must have been extremely painful for Eric to get rejected time after time. You can't force girls to be attracted to him when they aren't, but it still must have hurt.

CatherineM813 wrote:

I really do believe that some type of relationship could have formed between him and Susan.

I always wonder about that, especially because of the message he left for her on the Basement Tapes.

snegopady wrote:

CatherineM813 wrote:

I really do believe that some type of relationship could have formed between him and Susan.

I always wonder about that, especially because of the message he left for her on the Basement Tapes.

The basement tape message and the heartbreaking letter Susan wrote after the shooting. She mentioned of possibly being able to love him and what an amazing person he was.  

StinkyOldGrapes wrote:

Considering that Eric only kissed Susan on the cheek, I'm going to assume he never kissed a girl properly. Maybe he had a quick peck on the lips once, but never a real kiss.

Reading over this thread, I feel deeply, deeply sorry for E/D. I had my first serious relationship at 15, and by the time I was E/D's age, I'd kissed many times.

It must have been extremely painful for Eric to get rejected time after time. You can't force girls to be attracted to him when they aren't, but it still must have hurt.

I don't fully understand why girls were so quick to reject Eric. He was attractive, smart, witty, caring and sweet towards the people he liked. And I know this might sound a bity fangirly but if I went to CHS during that time I probably would have really liked him. Perhaps a lot of the girls he liked were into the popular jocks and other guys with a high social standing. And from what people have said it sounded like Eric was a bit clingy and needy which can be a turnoff to some.

CatherineM813 wrote:

I don't fully understand why girls were so quick to reject Eric. He was attractive, smart, witty, caring and sweet towards the people he liked. And I know this might sound a bity fangirly but if I went to CHS during that time I probably would have really liked him. Perhaps a lot of the girls he liked were into the popular jocks and other guys with a high social standing. And from what people have said it sounded like Eric was a bit clingy and needy which can be a turnoff to some.

I think Eric's short height and thin body type might have been off-putting to girls. He wasn't particularly masculine looking, which may have made him feel he had to prove his masculinity through violence.

I've always rejected the idea that having a girlfriend would have eased Eric's anger and possibly prevented Columbine, but I'm re-thinking that now.

I think Eric was a violent guy, and nothing was going to change that, but personally, if I had gotten to 18 and had never kissed anyone, I would have started to doubt my place in the world too.

Eric must have started believing that he'd never find someone. He must have felt there was nobody like him in this world. That kind of indifference is deadly.

I often think that there are girls on this forum who would have made great partners for E/D, but there were obviously no girls like the ones here at Columbine.

CatherineM813 wrote:

Does anyone think age matters with these types of experiences? I don't but I would love to hear other people's opinions.

Not really. I was about eighteen when I got my first kiss, so I was a bit of a 'late bloomer' in comparison with some others. It's never really bothered me all that much, though. I think age is only a problem with these experiences when you make it into a problem.

Quote :

I don't fully understand why girls were so quick to reject Eric. He was attractive, smart, witty, caring and sweet towards the people he liked. And I know this might sound a bity fangirly but if I went to CHS during that time I probably would have really liked him. Perhaps a lot of the girls he liked were into the popular jocks and other guys with a high social standing. And from what people have said it sounded like Eric was a bit clingy and needy which can be a turnoff to some.

He tried too hard. Most girls can sense desperation and neediness. I doubt that his woe-is-me approach I've heard about helped in this case. Girls typically didn't date him for long. I don't know, though.. It seems to me like some of the girls he picked out were not at all willing to level with him, or unable to level with him. I still believe he needed someone who challenged him on a mental level, who appreciated his quirky sense of humour and who could deal with his temper and self-deprecation if need be. I don't think most of the girls he picked to 'date' were that type of person. (Honestly, I think I would've liked the kid if I went to CHS.. but I also probably would've gotten into a hell of a fight with him more than once.  )

CatherineM813 wrote:

Does anyone think age matters with these types of experiences? I don't but I would love to hear other people's opinions.

thedragonrampant wrote:

Not really. I was about eighteen when I got my first kiss, so I was a bit of a 'late bloomer' in comparison with some others. It's never really bothered me all that much, though. I think age is only a problem with these experiences when you make it into a problem.

My experience would be similar and not a big deal either as the preference was for quality experiences.  However, for guys in high school that could be considered a blow to the ego if they haven't developed a rep of having a least some experience with girls. There is the need for boys to prove themselves attractive to women in school.  Atleast Dylan had Robin, a girl he was seen around the school with. However, friends and associates seem to clearly underscore the fact that she wasn't Dylan's girlfriend..that they were just friends. So, maybe for Dylan, he wasn't about to date anyone; he had a specific someone in mind.  In his journal, he clearly laments over not having a girl to do everything/anything with, to cuddle, to share his feelings with.  This is why he is pee green jealous of his best friend, Zach hooking up with Devon. Having a girlfriend as a life raft, a soundboard for difficult, dark feelings.  So, outwardly, Dylan seems fine to have a friendship with Robyn and was not interested in pursuing a girlfriend (likely because he didn't have the social skills for it.)  But on the inside, he feels left out of what friends around him were enjoying.  Zach, Nate, Brooks, etc. - all having girl friends.  I recall Nate saying that Dylan wasn't interested in a serious relationship, "he was waiting until after HS."  This was Nate's PoV not what Dylan told him.  The only friend who didn't yet have a girlfriend was.. Eric.  This would seal their close bond even tighter. They both shared being the odd man out, unable to have a succesful, intimate relationship with a female.

CatherineM813 wrote:

I don't fully understand why girls were so quick to reject Eric. He was attractive, smart, witty, caring and sweet towards the people he liked. And I know this might sound a bity fangirly but if I went to CHS during that time I probably would have really liked him. Perhaps a lot of the girls he liked were into the popular jocks and other guys with a high social standing. And from what people have said it sounded like Eric was a bit clingy and needy which can be a turnoff to some.

thedragonrampant wrote:

[He tried too hard. Most girls can sense desperation and neediness. I doubt that his woe-is-me approach I've heard about helped in this case. Girls typically didn't date him for long. I don't know, though.. It seems to me like some of the girls he picked out were not at all willing to level with him, or unable to level with him. I still believe he needed someone who challenged him on a mental level, who appreciated his quirky sense of humour and who could deal with his temper and self-deprecation if need be. I don't think most of the girls he picked to 'date' were that type of person. (Honestly, I think I would've liked the kid if I went to CHS.. but I also probably would've gotten into a hell of a fight with him more than once.  )

Agreed. Eric's only deficit in his pursuit of women is that he never took 'no' for an answer.  And he wouldn't accept refusal to the point of it screaming 'stalker!'.  When he finally managed to get a date, he seemed to self sabotage by chronic complaining. As if good conversation with a date would be for Eric to bring up the fact that he knows his date's friend and that her friend's boyfriend is someone he disliked.  Someone that pissed Eric off because the guy picked on him.  (This would be part of his conversation with Susan Dewitt.)  There goes grudgeholder Eric.  My feeling is that this was the pattern.  Constantly holding on to the slights and complaining about people he disliked or what he hated.  He sees his date as someone he confide in for sympathy.  Dating = theraputic catharesis for Eric.  I would bet that he did this over and over again with girl's he dated.  They just got bored of the pattern or thought, 'man, he's a bit scary.. he's got anger issues.'   Or if that didn't do it, 'omg! he's calling me again, he just called like, 30 minutes ago.. my mom thinks this he's weird."  Yes, "the weird kid" Eric.  Maybe on some level Eric intuited that he was coming off exactly like that.  Personally, I do think Eric's big motivations for girls was to get laid.  I think he badly wanted to tick that off on his check list.  Yeah, I know. I'm going to get flack for that here. ;)  Apart from being horny, Eric felt it was important to accomplish sex with a girl in a machismo kind of way. Whereas Dylan was not coming from that type of motivation.  Eric and Dylan were kind of the "Lost Boys" from Peter Pan.  Unable to move on to the next level -  beyond the distraction of violence, weapons, fireworks, videogames and adventure.  Sadly, male friends all around them left the two in the dust.

CatherineM813 wrote:

This might sound like a silly question but I'm going to throw if out there anyways. Do you think E/D kissed anyone? Maybe Eric because he had a bit more luck with the ladies but I'm not sure. What do you guys think?

Just my 2 cents:

I highly doubt that either of them kissed a girl, except for Eric supposedly kissing Susan DeWitt on the cheek. Dylan seemed like he would be really nervous around the girls he liked, & probably way too nervous to initiate a kiss. Eric seemed less shy in pursuing the ladies, but I don't think he ever made it very far. I doubt he ever got near the point of kissing (except Susan) in his few "relationships" or whatever you wanna call them.

I think Eric's biggest downfall when it came to girls is that he whined too much. He's mad at this person & this person.....this guy made fun of him....blah blah. He may have been hoping the girls would feel sorry for him, but it probably just came off as being weak. And, as someone else mentioned, his persistence might have been a problem with some girls. I'm a little confused as far as Dylan goes, because some people say that they knew he had a crush on them (i.e. Sarah Slater), some say he asked them out (i.e. Tobin Kennedy), etc, but others act like he was to shy to even start a conversation with girls he liked. Maybe he got more shy as he went along?

That was a really great post!! I agreed with your two cents. But if I knew Eric and he complained to me about the things that were bothering him I actually wouldn't mind. I love being the type of person that people want to confide in and helping people with their problems.

Eric talked a lot about wanting to get laid befire NBK but I can see why he wouldn't want to admit that he might not have kissed a girl.

CatherineM813 wrote:

I love being the type of person that people want to confide in and helping people with their problems.

Eric: "I'm planning mass murder. Wanna talk about it? And I would love for you to be my girlfriend and take me home to meet your parents. It's your choice completely, but if you say No, I'm going to plan an even worse mass murder."
Dylan: "The same goes for me. So, which one of us are you going to choose?"

That actually made me laugh. I wouldn't expect him to tell me that he's planning mass murder. I meant problems with school, people, family, and life in general.

CatherineM813 wrote:

I meant  problems with school, people, family, and life in general.

I know what you really meant and you'd probably have made a good friend to both E and D.  

What I was getting at though, is that both teenage boys had serious problems, and if one of them had found an understanding girlfriend, the other one's jealousy would have probably made them contemplate an even more serious mass murder.

A considerate girlfriend may have helped one of them, but at the same time it would have probably made the other more homicidal.

I wouldn't like to be the girl that came between Eric and Dylan.

Even if you were just a kind, caring friend, in the end one or both of them would probably have hit on you, and you'd have to make a choice.

You've got two homicidal maniacs fighting over you... you're dead either way.

i will say this, i know it's kinda bad but since 4/20, i had a huge crush on Eric. I still do, so had I went to Columbine, I probably would have written a two page letter telling him that I had a crush on him and went to Dylan and would have been like, "here, could you give this to Eric?" and then run away because i'm super shy, lol.

Eric had a fierce temper, so do I, so we would've matched fine, he'd get angry at me, I'd get angry at him back and the attraction would have grown stronger from both our tempers raging....Yeah, I'd have been interested in dating him if I went to CHS.

Hey, I recently saw a girl named Jaime Jolly in the columbine yearbook which means she fits Dylans poem. I remember seeing a thread dedicated to trying out different named to the poem but now I can't find it. Can anyone help me out?

Since the girl Dylan made a poem about didn't even know him it is possible it could be about her.

Also Jaime is kind of a weird name, Isn't it usually spelled Jamie? And Dylan wrote about the name being strange..

A little off topic, but what happened to the theory about Dylan being bisexual? I think I first read that on Wikipedia a few years ago, I skimmed the article a moment ago but couldn't see anything. I think Cullen may have mentioned it in his book too, but what evidence is there to confirm this?

04daviszoe wrote:

A little off topic, but what happened to the theory about Dylan being bisexual? I think I first read that on Wikipedia a few years ago, I skimmed the article a moment ago but couldn't see anything. I think Cullen may have mentioned it in his book too, but what evidence is there to confirm this?

From what I can recall, it was a reporter who had supposedly talked to Dylan in a chat room. Dylan had supposedly told him or suggested to this person that he was Bi. But to my knowledge this was dismissed as it really couldn't be proven.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

A little off topic, but what happened to the theory about Dylan being bisexual? I think I first read that on Wikipedia a few years ago, I skimmed the article a moment ago but couldn't see anything. I think Cullen may have mentioned it in his book too, but what evidence is there to confirm this?

From what I can recall, it was a reporter who had supposedly talked to Dylan in a chat room. Dylan had supposedly told him or suggested to this person that he was Bi. But to my knowledge this was dismissed as it really couldn't be proven.

True, plus Dylan was kicked off of AOL so many times he had a bunch of throwaway names.

The only one that’s been verified was Wurmhole

He also said Dylan wanted to blow stuff up and wanted to call him... then radio silence.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

A little off topic, but what happened to the theory about Dylan being bisexual? I think I first read that on Wikipedia a few years ago, I skimmed the article a moment ago but couldn't see anything. I think Cullen may have mentioned it in his book too, but what evidence is there to confirm this?

From what I can recall, it was a reporter who had supposedly talked to Dylan in a chat room. Dylan had supposedly told him or suggested to this person that he was Bi. But to my knowledge this was dismissed as it really couldn't be proven.

Oh oh I feel dumb, I already knew that but thank you for that refresh! You know there's always like one dumb question that plays on your mind for a while, and yet you don't research it out of laziness/stubbornness because you just *know* it. Yeah that was me Thank you!

04daviszoe wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

04daviszoe wrote:

A little off topic, but what happened to the theory about Dylan being bisexual? I think I first read that on Wikipedia a few years ago, I skimmed the article a moment ago but couldn't see anything. I think Cullen may have mentioned it in his book too, but what evidence is there to confirm this?

From what I can recall, it was a reporter who had supposedly talked to Dylan in a chat room. Dylan had supposedly told him or suggested to this person that he was Bi. But to my knowledge this was dismissed as it really couldn't be proven.

Oh oh I feel dumb, I already knew that but thank you for that refresh! You know there's always like one dumb question that plays on your mind for a while, and yet you don't research it out of laziness/stubbornness because you just *know* it. Yeah that was me Thank you!

We all have these moments! I forget and then remember shit again at the drop of a hat.

Here is something I have never seen. We know this is wrong, but coming from Marla I think it's interesting, from the 11k

Marla Fanst [1,410] claimed DK asked her to the prom; said Devon Adams was DK’s ex-girlfriend (QS)

This should be Marla Faust, unless there are 2 Marla's with similar last names that Dylan asked to the prom..

Dylan probably didn't. Eric had a few girlfriends before Columbine. So it's possible he did.