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 What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc

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PostSubject: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 2:11 pm

Hi all,

I'm really curious to know, from those who are willing to share, what some of your unanswered questions are regarding both the Columbine incident and school violence in general? What is difficult to reconcile? Where do you get stuck in trying to understand or research to find answers? What frustrates you about the subject?

I plan on sharing my thoughts as well once I'm done with some of my work.

I'm curious because I've talked with so many people over the years and although we all came together to study/look into this one incident (and others), we all came for different reasons and everyone has a wide variety of experiences and perspectives. I find it interesting how different all of us are, despite our common interests.

:)
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 3:06 pm

The question that bothers me (and probably a lot of people) is: 'why'? Why did the shooters do it? And we will never get the answer to that question and that frustrades me. I've done a lot of research on Columbine and other mass shootings and I now know that there is no real answer to that 'why'.
However, we should try to understand the perpetrators to avoid such tragedies in the future. And that brings the question 'what can we as a society do to stop school schootings?'
The thing that bothers me the most about Columbine is that there are (after 19 years) still so many unanswered questions , e.g. Who had the idea? What was the school like, were Eric and Dylan really bullied? Why did Eric let Brooks Brown go? What exactly is on the basement tapes and will they ever be leaked?
These are just a few questions I keep asking myself, there are a lot more and I'm hoping that one day we'll eventually get the answer to at least one of them Smile

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 3:11 pm

Gosh this is a loaded question for me. So many things. I might come back here and post more and more because my brain goes slowly sometimes

Mainly though, I just wish I could be a fly on the wall for the previous last years of their lives. See how they did things, what they talked about in private, hear their real thoughts not just what was written down.

For me, that is the thing shrouded most in mystery. Just what went on between the two. There is a ton of speculation but in the end no one really knows. Not even those close to them.

The stupidity of that police force is what frustrates me. Not releasing evidence, potentially destroying evidence, and the other many blunders that come along with this case. I want to know what they missed, what they skimmed over, thought of as unimportant. Things like the boys actually leaving the duffle bags for example are found today by researchers and the police either did not catch it or didn't want to release it. I want to know more about these things and now 20 years later it is probably impossible

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 10:45 pm


1)Will we ever see the Basement Tapes (what's *on* them is known) and what difference would it make?
2)To what extent were Eric & Dylan really bullied? (Or: to what extent is the school really responsible for the massacre?)
3)Who was Dylan Klebold's mystery girl?
4)Which one of the two of them is screaming "GET UP!" on the 911 tape?
5)Who is that girl making the goofy open-arms gesture in the bottom center of the "silly" school photo?
6)Did Eric really make Dylan do it? (probably not)
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 11:22 am

4) You mean when they first enter the library? If so, that really sounds like Eric's accent.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 11:32 am

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:

1)Will we ever see the Basement Tapes (what's *on* them is known) and what difference would it make?
2)To what extent were Eric & Dylan really bullied?  (Or: to what extent is the school really responsible for the massacre?)
3)Who was Dylan Klebold's mystery girl?
4)Which one of the two of them is screaming "GET UP!" on the 911 tape?
5)Who is that girl making the goofy open-arms gesture in the bottom center of the "silly" school photo?
6)Did Eric really make Dylan do it?  (probably not)


4. I have always thought "Get Up" was Eric and the big "Everybody get up now, you're all mine"is absolutely Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 12:09 pm

I also think there was bullying, I think Eric got it worse but I think he could also be a little instigator.

I don’t think we Can ever get a clear-cut answer on it. Because it was such a big place and there are some people who vehemently deny it . I spoke to one such person, They said they weren’t bullied so how could anyone else have been ? Which is completely illogical.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 12:33 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I also think there was bullying, I think Eric got it worse but I think he could also be a little instigator.

I don’t think we Can ever get a clear-cut answer on it. Because it was such a big place and there are some people who vehemently deny it . I spoke to one such person, They said they weren’t bullied  so how could anyone else have been ? Which is completely illogical.

I agree, there was definetly bullying at Columbine. I mean, there's bullying at almost every American high school, it's unlikely that Columbine was an exception. The question is: was the bullying at Columbine really worse than at other schools and were Eric and/or Dylan really the main targets? I remember that Sue Klebold wrote in her book that Dylan said that he wasn't bullied because he was so tall, but that Eric got all the shit.
However, she also mentioned in an interview that Dylan one day came home from school in a t-shirt with ketchup on it. Some students later said that there were tampons with ketchup thrown at him.
Well, we will probably never know to what extent they were bullied. Man, that is frustrating.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 12:58 pm

rebootoX wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I also think there was bullying, I think Eric got it worse but I think he could also be a little instigator.

I don’t think we Can ever get a clear-cut answer on it. Because it was such a big place and there are some people who vehemently deny it . I spoke to one such person, They said they weren’t bullied  so how could anyone else have been ? Which is completely illogical.

I agree, there was definetly bullying at Columbine. I mean, there's bullying at almost every American high school, it's unlikely that Columbine was an exception. The question is: was the bullying at Columbine really worse than at other schools and were Eric and/or Dylan really the main targets? I remember that Sue Klebold wrote in her book that Dylan said that he wasn't bullied because he was so tall, but that Eric got all the shit.
However, she also mentioned in an interview that Dylan one day came home from school in a t-shirt with ketchup on it. Some students later said that there were tampons with ketchup thrown at him.
Well, we will probably never know to what extent they were bullied. Man, that is frustrating.

Or the extent of the bullying they did to others

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 1:18 pm

Devon, Brooks and Chad said Dylan did get bullied and we know Eric did too. Less than some, more than others.

Bullying is such a cycle. I assume at times Eric picked fights and Dylan lost his temper. Though a lot of times after going through it enough you lash out or fight back. Sometimes when the bullied fight back they can look worse than those who started the harassment.

Eric and Dylan as bullies themselves is an interesting point of discussion for me.

I think it was Robyn or Alex Marsh who said if they liked you they were the sweetest, if they didn’t, watch out.


I’m of the unpopular opinion that Adam Kyler was an exaggerator.. and he could have also been part of the freshman causing problems.. or Dylan was a complete asshole to him to feel tough, we don’t know.


Then they became the ultimate bullies, worse than even Rocky.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 1:59 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Devon, Brooks and Chad said Dylan did get bullied and we know Eric did too. Less than some, more than others.

Bullying is such a cycle. I assume at times Eric picked fights and Dylan lost his temper. Though a lot of times after going through it enough you lash out or fight back. Sometimes when the bullied fight back they can look worse than those who started the harassment.

Eric and Dylan as bullies themselves is an interesting point of discussion for me.

I think it was Robyn or Alex Marsh who said if they liked you they were the sweetest, if they didn’t, watch out.


I’m of the unpopular opinion that Adam Kyler was an exaggerator.. and he could have also been part of the freshman causing problems.. or Dylan was a complete asshole to him to feel tough, we don’t know.


Then they became the ultimate bullies, worse than even Rocky.

Because Adam has a disability I do wonder the extent of the bullying he received. I don't doubt he was picked on a lot bc he was disabled but I wonder who did it. I wonder if it even was Dylan. I am sure Dylan did look a bit imposing and scary though so maybe that was why he selected him?

Was it something that happened daily or was it something that only happened once but bc he is sensitive it made him so utterly scared just by the one occurrence? Hard to say and the details are murky

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 2:28 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Devon, Brooks and Chad said Dylan did get bullied and we know Eric did too. Less than some, more than others.

Bullying is such a cycle. I assume at times Eric picked fights and Dylan lost his temper. Though a lot of times after going through it enough you lash out or fight back. Sometimes when the bullied fight back they can look worse than those who started the harassment.

Eric and Dylan as bullies themselves is an interesting point of discussion for me.

I think it was Robyn or Alex Marsh who said if they liked you they were the sweetest, if they didn’t, watch out.


I’m of the unpopular opinion that Adam Kyler was an exaggerator.. and he could have also been part of the freshman causing problems.. or Dylan was a complete asshole to him to feel tough, we don’t know.


Then they became the ultimate bullies, worse than even Rocky.

Because Adam has a disability I do wonder the extent of the bullying he received.  I don't doubt he was picked on a lot bc he was disabled but I wonder who did it.  I wonder if it even was Dylan.  I am sure Dylan did look a bit imposing and scary though so maybe that was why he selected him?  

Was it something that happened daily or was it something that only happened once but bc he is sensitive it made him so utterly scared just by the one occurrence?  Hard to say and the details are murky

It also all came out after the shooting and I think Adam was in the cafeteria. No teachers or admins confirmed it.

Dylan didn’t seem like he’d paint a swatzika on his face and threaten to kill someone, his outbursts seemed to be in retaliation to someone and at a breaking point. This is all pre 420 of course. . Maybe it was another kid from the TCM?
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 4:42 pm

1. Why they didn't test those bombs and detonators before 20/4?
2. Why they stopped killing after the carnage in the library?
3. Who was the first one who came up with the idea of NBK? I'm very curious how they talked this through.
4. Why they chose these shitty firearms especially Tec?
5. Why Eric didn't send these fucking tapes to media!?
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 5:42 pm

rebootoX wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I also think there was bullying, I think Eric got it worse but I think he could also be a little instigator.

I don’t think we Can ever get a clear-cut answer on it. Because it was such a big place and there are some people who vehemently deny it . I spoke to one such person, They said they weren’t bullied  so how could anyone else have been ? Which is completely illogical.

I agree, there was definetly bullying at Columbine. I mean, there's bullying at almost every American high school, it's unlikely that Columbine was an exception. The question is: was the bullying at Columbine really worse than at other schools and were Eric and/or Dylan really the main targets? I remember that Sue Klebold wrote in her book that Dylan said that he wasn't bullied because he was so tall, but that Eric got all the shit.
However, she also mentioned in an interview that Dylan one day came home from school in a t-shirt with ketchup on it. Some students later said that there were tampons with ketchup thrown at him.
Well, we will probably never know to what extent they were bullied. Man, that is frustrating.

Bullying varies from person to person; the one who's done the most to denounce the school as a bullying crap-hole is Brooks Brown (who, somewhat questionably, claimed to have confronted Frank DeAngelis about the "culture of cruelty" at exaggeration and told him off--can we get confirmation of this from Frank DeAngelis?), the one who's been the biggest denier is Dave Cullen (whose sole reason for doing so is that his book is hooked around the idea that "the media got it wrong!!"--Cullen himself says he was bullied in high school!) Cullen wants us to believe that Columbine was no different than any other school and that E&D probably did have some bad days, but that they would have bombed a football game or something, he also says "Eric and Dylan documented their grievances extensively. Bullying was never mentioned"--teenage boys don't like to admit to bullying, though. Hell, I got the shit knocked out of me in Kansas two or three times during the same time period that E&D were at Columbine and I never felt like complaining to the school once.
I think Columbine does seem worse than a lot of other schools, but it'd need to be upper-crust high schools we'd need to be comparing it to, not redneck shitholes like the one I attended in Kansas, I think--I think the money and privilege a lot of these kids had is a factor that makes Columbine somewhat different.
I just can't accept, with as many bullying stories as there supposedly were at Columbine (read LPorter's posts where Landon Jones, a jock, talked about his contempt for head-bully Rocky Hoffschneider) that it wasn't a factor. I can only agree it probably wasn't the central reason for NBK.

As for the ketchup tampon incident, I wouldn't be surprised if *something* happened, but I want to know if something BIG happened--we've heard some horror story about a big circle of taunting loud yelling jokes ganging up on E&D & company, but if it were something that huge more people would have seen it, and probably would have come forward.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 7:05 pm

I'd like to know why Eric did a goodbye video and I'd like to know to what extent teachers and staff where involved in the bullying (I've written down Mollie Weksler said they where).

I'd also like to know if the jocks ever bullied them physically in any other way than throwing stuff on them and if I remember correctly holding Eric down in gymclass and throwing a ball at his head.

I'd like to know to what extent being bullied by girls in April/May 1998 influenced them.



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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 7:18 pm

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
he also says "Eric and Dylan documented their grievances extensively.  Bullying was never mentioned"

Wait he really said that? Holy shit, that's a blatant lie, Eric wrote several times in his journal how he was bullied.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 7:22 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I have always thought "Get Up" was Eric and the big "Everybody get up now, you're all mine"is absolutely Dylan.


Me as well. They are different voices for sure, with the second voice being much louder.

AN we all know Dylan could yell real good. Haha
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 9:39 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I have always thought "Get Up" was Eric and the big "Everybody get up now, you're all mine"is absolutely Dylan.


Me as well. They are different voices for sure, with the second voice being much louder.

AN we all know Dylan could yell real good. Haha

I want to know how Eric knows that... did Dylan yell at him?
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 7:15 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I have always thought "Get Up" was Eric and the big "Everybody get up now, you're all mine"is absolutely Dylan.


Me as well. They are different voices for sure, with the second voice being much louder.

AN we all know Dylan could yell real good. Haha

I want to know how Eric knows that... did Dylan yell at him?



He probably did at some point or another. But I'm thinking it came more from their video antics and the fact Dylan just seemed to have a somewhat deep, loud ass voice.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 10:34 am

I think there was bullying just like at every other school in North America. I just read some articles where survivors were interviewed post 20/4 about returning to school.
They said things changed/improved between students at the school for a few months after then quickly returned to normal after that. Implying that the bullying returned?

The articles are under Media towards the end of the posts.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 10:40 am

Does anyone have a list of all the books written about Columbine?

I've read:
Columbine by David
A Mothers Reckoning - Sue Klebolds
Rachel's Tears- Darrel Scott
No Easy Answers-Brook Brown

Any others?

Was the entire 911 call ever released? I've heard the main one and the one Valeen Schnurr was heard in.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 10:42 am

Oldmare wrote:
I think there was bullying just like at every other school in North America.  I just read some articles where survivors were interviewed post 20/4  about returning to school.
They said things changed/improved between students at the school for a few months after then quickly returned to normal after that. Implying that the bullying returned?

The articles are under Media towards the end of the posts.

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Sadly the deaths of 15 people didn't change the atmosphere of Columbine for very long. Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 10:47 am

Oldmare wrote:
Does anyone have a list of all the books written about Columbine?

I've read:
Columbine by David
A Mothers Reckoning - Sue Klebolds
Rachel's Tears- Darrel Scott
No Easy Answers-Brook Brown

Any others?

Was the entire 911 call ever released? I've heard the main one and the one Valeen Schnurr was heard in.



The full 911 call has never been released to the public.

Also two books to add to the list.

Columbine: A true crime story by Jeff Kass

Comprehending Columbine by Ralph Larkin
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 11:24 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Oldmare wrote:
Does anyone have a list of all the books written about Columbine?

I've read:
Columbine by David
A Mothers Reckoning - Sue Klebolds
Rachel's Tears- Darrel Scott
No Easy Answers-Brook Brown

Any others?

Was the entire 911 call ever released? I've heard the main one and the one Valeen Schnurr was heard in.



The full 911 call has never been released to the public.

Also two books to add to the list.

Columbine: A true crime story by Jeff Kass

Comprehending Columbine by Ralph Larkin

Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 2:09 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Oldmare wrote:
I think there was bullying just like at every other school in North America.  I just read some articles where survivors were interviewed post 20/4  about returning to school.
They said things changed/improved between students at the school for a few months after then quickly returned to normal after that. Implying that the bullying returned?

The articles are under Media towards the end of the posts.

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Sadly the deaths of 15 people didn't change the atmosphere of Columbine for very long. Crying or Very sad

The bombs could've gone off and nothing would've changed for long.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 2:14 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Oldmare wrote:
I think there was bullying just like at every other school in North America.  I just read some articles where survivors were interviewed post 20/4  about returning to school.
They said things changed/improved between students at the school for a few months after then quickly returned to normal after that. Implying that the bullying returned?

The articles are under Media towards the end of the posts.

Sent from Topic'it App
Sadly the deaths of 15 people didn't change the atmosphere of Columbine for very long. Crying or Very sad

The bombs could've gone off and nothing would've changed for long.


Unfortunately you are right. No If 15 people losing their lives wasn't enough to bring about a drastic change in that school, then the deaths of 1000 more probably wouldn't have made any difference either.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 4:38 pm

Oldmare wrote:
Does anyone have a list of all the books written about Columbine?

I've read:
Columbine by David
A Mothers Reckoning - Sue Klebolds
Rachel's Tears- Darrel Scott
No Easy Answers-Brook Brown

Any others?

Was the entire 911 call ever released? I've heard the main one and the one Valeen Schnurr was heard in.

Walking in Daniel's Shoes by Tom Mauser
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSat Apr 21, 2018 5:24 pm

The thing I'm definitely most curious about is Eric and Dylan's relationship and how they talked. Like what they did talk about in private, how did they speak to each other, what were their thoughts before and during the massacre. Things we will probably never know.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSat Apr 21, 2018 6:18 pm

EthanEmerson wrote:
Hi all,

I'm really curious to know, from those who are willing to share, what some of your unanswered questions are regarding both the Columbine incident and school violence in general? What is difficult to reconcile? Where do you get stuck in trying to understand or research to find answers? What frustrates you about the subject?

I plan on sharing my thoughts as well once I'm done with some of my work.

I'm curious because I've talked with so many people over the years and although we all came together to study/look into this one incident (and others), we all came for different reasons and everyone has a wide variety of experiences and perspectives. I find it interesting how different all of us are, despite our common interests.

Smile
Why in gods name when the bombs didn't go off did they automatically jump to plan B. instead of investigating said bombs and coming back a day later when the problem was rectified...makes absolutely no sense since the massacre was originally planned for April 19th and was then pushed back a day later by Eric because he wanted to get more ammo. On top of that, why did they not kill a single person on either shit list. If it was to get revenge on the bullies, Dylan why did you spare Evan Todd the guy that bullied you yet shot Kyle Velasquez, a mentally retarded kid in the head without hesitation. Why did you stop killing after the library if you walked past scores of classrooms fulled with kids. Why did you commit suicide way earlier then you needed to, they killed themselves in the library a whole 3 hours before the SWAT team even reached them...obviously they had no idea, but why not wait until the second they knew police were right down the hall if the goal is to kill as many people as possible, even though the bombs didn't work, they could of walked around for another 2-3 hours slaughtering classroom after classroom.  Obviously its a good thing it didn't work out, but jeez is it a joke to go with the two whole propane bombs that should of killed 500+, have two shit lists totaling at least 67 people., and not injure a single one of them and instead kill 10 random nerds in a library after two kids outside and a teacher in a hallway


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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSat Apr 21, 2018 6:41 pm

I'd love to know if Robyn actually knew anything about the shooting, especially since she went ahead and "purchased" some of the guns on Eric and Dylan's behalf. If I'd been asked to buy guns purely because I was old enough, I'd ask why they needed guns (I'm sure it's been claimed that they told her they were for target practice) but wouldn't you ask why they needed those particular guns for target practice - perhaps she did ask and felt satisfied with the answer they gave her. Like VoDKaComeHere mentioned, I'd love to know why they didn't target anyone off their shit lists - it seems like a missed opportunity, especially if the people on there were bullying them or did something in class that annoyed them enough to put them on the list etc. Has it ever been confirmed (other than Rachel) that they knew any of the other victims, either personally (through classes shared etc) or through their friends (for example, did Dustin from the Breakfast Run video know any of the victim's - of course, this can be extended to any of their other friends). Was their friendship a one of convenience because Eric wanted people to feel his wrath and Dylan was ready to die but didn't seem 100% confident/comfortable taking the next step? I'd love to hear their thoughts on all the shootings that occurred after their own massacre, especially the school shooting in Florida as Cruz managed to escape the school by blending in with other students - do you think they'd think he was clever for doing that or stupid because he managed to get caught eventually? What do you think they would think of the students from the school who have become activists because of the tragedy at their school? We know their massacre occurred in 1999 and technology was not as far advanced as it is now, do you think they'd have taken a different approach to the shooting if someone had filmed it like the kids in Florida did? Oh my god, so many unanswered questions!
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSat Apr 21, 2018 7:03 pm

There definitely are plenty of unanswered questions! Some I've never thought about until reading other people's responses...

I've always wondered how they came up with the idea, like who said what, was it presented as a joke to test the waters to see how the other person felt? Dylan wrote in his journal something like "maybe going NBK with Eric is a way to find relief" (last part is not a direct quote, I don't remember the exact words) but there was a definite point in time when Dylan was aware of the idea, and did not seem completely sold on the idea...

One question that has remained in my head for years is if Dylan was the one who called the school and said, "this is Eric Harris, there's a bomb in the building" - I was told this directly in person (phone call) by someone on the cafeteria team. He was telling me that the secretary who received that call was extremely shaken by this call. This was way early on in the investigation, within that first year or two. I have never read that in the testimony but there were tons of people who did not have testimony appear in the 11k! People who were at the school.

There was someone who saw Dylan on the payphone prior to the shooting, at about the same time that call supposedly came in.

It sounds cliche to paint Dylan as the kind of person who didn't really want to go through with it as much as Eric, but it's very clear that he wasn't in it for the same reasons as Eric.

I even studied the wounds received by the people they both shot and found that every single victim who died that was shot by both Eric and Dylan - Eric inflicted the mortal wounds while Dylan either inflicted wounds in extremities OR he shot them multiple times well after Eric had already shot them. Dylan technically only killed a few people. I will share my research on this in a different thread, but I dove into it to find out the truth and I was not surprised to see that he really only killed a couple people when you look at the actual wounds he inflicted.

Plus, he started shooting with his double barrel shotgun outside... from long range... sawed off, at that... that is not a smart move if you're aiming to kill as many people as possible. I think he just wanted to die and was willing to take out his rage on everyone else to make that happen, but he was still clearly reserved a bit compared to Eric.

I'd also love to know if any of their friends helped them build their pipe bomb arsenal. There were at least three of their friends who regularly made bombs with them. It was something their group did.

Another question I have is how the heck did Eric get to go pick up clips that he ordered in his father's name? Did they allow him to pick it up because he was 18 and it was supposedly for his father? By that logic, anyone could go in to pick up anyone else's clips as long as they were 18. What if that person had a criminal record and wasn't allowed to have ammo or guns?

So many unanswered questions is right!!
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSat Apr 21, 2018 9:35 pm

The clip question I think Eric ordered under his family name or account? Special orders the store would need personal info and contact #. He could have requested no calls bit that raises suspicions.

I read and article in a psychology magazine written by a DR thst did a thorough analysis about Dylan for Sue/ or Sue requested the information afterwards from the guy. He said a similar thing about Dylan that he fired less shots and less fatal shots. Dylan also let people go during the massacre. Eric didn't let anyone go unless he was with Dylan who did. At the same time though Dylan did participate in the planning and during the massacre.
Good questions!
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSat Apr 21, 2018 9:49 pm

Oldmare wrote:
The clip question I think Eric ordered under his family name or account? Special orders the store would need personal info and contact #. He could have requested no calls bit that raises suspicions.

I read and article in a psychology magazine written by a DR thst did a thorough analysis about Dylan for Sue/ or Sue requested the information afterwards from the guy. He said a similar thing about Dylan that he fired less shots and less fatal shots.  Dylan also let people go during the massacre.  Eric didn't let anyone go unless he was with Dylan who did. At the same time though Dylan did participate in the planning and during the massacre.  
Good questions!

Do you have a link to that article?
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSat Apr 21, 2018 10:23 pm

Hmmmm


Last edited by EthanEmerson on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 1:11 am

EthanEmerson wrote:
I've always wondered how they came up with the idea, like who said what, was it presented as a joke to test the waters to see how the other person felt? Dylan wrote in his journal something like "maybe going NBK with Eric is a way to find relief" (last part is not a direct quote, I don't remember the exact words) but there was a definite point in time when Dylan was aware of the idea, and did not seem completely sold on the idea...

As much as I loathe the movie I'm Not Ashamed, I have to admit that the part at which I've timestamped this video is roughly how I imagine it was conceived:



Oldmare wrote:
Eric didn't let anyone go unless he was with Dylan who did. 

Eric let Brooks go.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 1:43 am

That's what I thought, too when I saw that clip. It's more realistic than anything.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 2:45 am

I would like to know what they thought during the last moments in the library before they blew their brains out. Did they think of anyone? Mom? Dad?
Did they look forward to killing themselves and were relieved to get it done, or was there even some dread/fear now that it was finally time to do it with no way out?
Was there regret?
What did they say to each other?

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 6:22 am

I wonder as well if there is any paranormal activity that occurs on April 20th that no one in the school knows about (that is if they still have the full day off as a memorial day). If there is such a thing as ghosts, who would have chosen to stay behind and who would have moved on. Is the paranormal activity a blow by blow (excuse the pun) replay of the shooting or is it just the souls of the victim's returning each year and then going "home" as it were?
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 9:13 am

Wumselito wrote:
I would like to know what they thought during the last moments in the library before they blew their brains out. Did they think of anyone? Mom? Dad?
Did they look forward to killing themselves and were relieved to get it done, or was there even some dread/fear now that it was finally time to do it with no way out?
Was there regret?
What did they say to each other?

I am most curious about the time before they committed suicide. I wish I could have been in their heads in those final moments. I just want to know (as you said), what were they thinking. I especially want to know if they felt any sort of regret. Not towards their failed plan, but doing the whole thing to begin with. Gosh, it actually pains me not knowing.


I've always wondered that if they did Columbine in this modern time, would they like strap a go pro on themselves like police cams or something? To make an even bigger impact, though I would think those videos would never ever be released. A random question, but I do think about it.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 12:45 pm

Oldmare wrote:
Eric didn't let anyone go unless he was with Dylan who did. 

Eric let Brooks go.[/quote]

I was thinking of once the massacre started. I've always thought he let Brooks because if he had killed him the plans for the day would be interrupted.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 12:55 pm

Do you have a link to that article?[/quote]

Here it is. An interesting article although it's doesn't mention what I thought. I was reading a lot of different articles and books that week. I'll check them to see if I can find who says it to Sue? I'm wondering if Kate Battan mentioned those things about Dylan during the massacre? Does anyone remember if she said that in Sue Klebolds book?

I tend to read multiple things at once so info sometimes overlaps... Probably not the best thing to do!

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 1:11 pm

Wumselito wrote:
Oldmare wrote:
Does anyone have a list of all the books written about Columbine?

I've read:
Columbine by David
A Mothers Reckoning - Sue Klebolds
Rachel's Tears- Darrel Scott
No Easy Answers-Brook Brown

Any others?

Was the entire 911 call ever released? I've heard the main one and the one Valeen Schnurr was heard in.

Walking in Daniel's Shoes by Tom Mauser

Have you read Cassie's book. I did a LONG time ago. It was back when people thought Cassie died because she was Christian.

Also not a book of course but the movie Dawn Anna is about Lauren's mom and we don't know it is about Lauren until the end. I remember watching it and the camera pulls out while Lauren is getting out of the car and she has her blue and white jacket on and it has "Columbine' on the back and I'm like "NO!!!! It's Lauren Townsend' Crying or Very sad


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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 1:11 pm

Oldmare wrote:
Do you have a link to that article?

Here it is. An interesting article although it's doesn't mention what I thought. I was reading a lot of different articles and books that week.  I'll check them to see if I can find who says it to Sue? I'm wondering if Kate Battan mentioned those things about Dylan during the massacre? Does anyone remember if she said that in Sue Klebolds book?

I tend to read multiple things at once so info sometimes overlaps... Probably not the best thing to do!

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Sent from Topic'it App[/quote]

Thank you!

Are you talking about the forgiveness line? I don't recall Sue saying anything about it in the book. Sue is right, Sue doesn't need forgiveness. Empathy and understanding- yes but forgiveness... I don't know that Sue's parenting created Dylan, I just reread a thread here where someone thought that Sue was very responsible for harming Dylan and creating this "monster"

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 1:22 pm

Hmmm. I don't think so. Sue was speaking to someone about Dylan's actions that day and the person replied that Dylan had let people go during the massacre as a way to comfort her may be? I'm thinking Kate but maybe someone else. I'll dig into it more...

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 1:24 pm

I don't think anyone is responsible for Dylan's actions that day but Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 1:49 pm

Oldmare wrote:
Hmmm. I don't think so.  Sue was speaking to someone about Dylan's actions that day and the person replied that Dylan had let people go during the massacre as a way to comfort her may be? I'm thinking Kate but maybe someone else.  I'll dig into it more...

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I feel like she found that out in October through Kate Battan... also many witnesses said that Dylan saw them and didn't shoot. Dylan and Eric had the "opportunity" to kill Val,John, Evan Todd and Bree but didn't. Then there is the leg straddling story. Dylan was reloading and was straddling a girls leg, he knew she was there and chose not to. I'm not sure if this was Dylan's humanity coming through (it may have been for someone like John Savage or Tim Kastle since Dylan knew and liked them) or playing god?
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 8:51 pm

Leg straddling story?? I've never heard about that before.details please!!
In the article I just posted the link for he talks about how Dylan waa starting to disassociate from his well mind. The closer NBK came the more of a separation there was and thst dissociation. I'd like to think his humanity was creeping out. He was not determined to be a psychopath like Eric so he might have felt something. Then you wonder if he did feel something, enough for him to not be as aggressive as Eric with fatal shots and also letting people go...how could he have done it at all? He was more verbally abusive I have read, then Eric. If he was able to feel anything for the people he attacked then how could he go through it at all? Are we just hoping there was humanity there? I have not heard anything about Eric acting that way during the massacre.
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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 9:00 pm

Oldmare wrote:
Leg straddling story?? I've never heard about that before.details please!!
In the article I just posted the link for he talks about how Dylan waa starting to disassociate from his well mind. The closer NBK came the more of a separation there was and thst dissociation. I'd like to think his humanity was creeping out. He was not determined to be a psychopath like Eric so he might have felt something. Then you wonder if he did feel something, enough for him to not be as aggressive as Eric with fatal shots and also letting people go...how could he have done it at all? He was more verbally abusive I have read, then Eric. If he was able to feel anything for the people he attacked then how could he go through it at all? Are we just hoping there was humanity there? I have not heard anything about Eric acting that way during the massacre.  

Dylan was particularly vicious with his words. You can hear him in the 911 call and that's not even the worse of it. It almost sounded like he was trying to sound like a bad guy in a movie.

Dylan wrote that he felt like his humanity was overtaken by an entity...

It was Jessica Holidays statement from the 11k

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PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 9:28 pm

Dylan was particularly vicious with his words. You can hear him in the 911 call and that's not even the worse of it. It almost sounded like he was trying to sound like a bad guy in a movie.

Dylan wrote that he felt like his humanity was overtaken by an entity...

It was Jessica Holidays statement from the 11k

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/quote]

Thanks! I've read part of that before. For some reason when you said straddle I pictured Dylan sitting on someone's leg...anyways...

Was anyone found with any stab wounds? I read over the autopsy reports but never found any mention of knife wounds.

Dylan was intelligent enough to see himself being separated from his sanity I think. He wasn't eating properly according to his weight loss and was consuming alcohol. That would set him up for possible diet deficiencies and the side effects that go along with those. Not a good mix. Those things alone will cause someone to feel "off" and mentally blurry and that's without a depressive disorder on top of it all.

So he was suffering a great deal and for whatever reason in his mind decided NBK and suicide was the only reason. Yet as abusive as he was verbally he only shot several victims after Eric did and let others go. Maybe he was over doing the verbal abuse to meet what by then had become Eric's expectations? Play up the rage like in TBT and other videos.

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What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Empty
PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitimeSun Apr 22, 2018 10:01 pm

Oldmare wrote:
Dylan was particularly vicious with his words. You can hear him in the 911 call and that's not even the worse of it. It almost sounded like he was trying to sound like a bad guy in a movie.

Dylan wrote that he felt like his humanity was overtaken by an entity...

It was Jessica Holidays statement from the 11k

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Thanks! I've read part of that before. For some reason when you said straddle I pictured Dylan sitting on someone's leg...anyways...

Was anyone found with any stab wounds? I read over the autopsy reports but never found any mention of knife wounds.

Dylan was intelligent enough to see himself being separated from his sanity I think.  He wasn't eating properly according to his weight loss and was consuming alcohol. That would set him up for possible diet deficiencies and the side effects that go along with those. Not a good mix. Those things alone will cause someone to feel "off" and mentally blurry and that's without a depressive disorder on top of it all.  

So he was suffering a great deal and for whatever reason in his mind decided NBK and suicide was the only reason. Yet as abusive as he was verbally he only shot several victims after Eric did and let others go.  Maybe he was over doing the verbal abuse to meet what by then had become Eric's expectations? Play up the rage like in TBT and other videos.

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No one was found with knife wounds.

That is a good point... I’m not entirely sure how Eric acted in the cafeteria, a witness says they heard a kid yell “I want to kill myself”
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What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Empty
PostSubject: Re: What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc   What are your unanswered questions, curiosities, dilemmas, frustrations etc Icon_minitime

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