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PostSubject: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 12:01 am

IMO
When eric and dylan killed themself did they die happy with what they did or did they regret it all?

Also the question of what the basement tapes were like drives me nuts
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 12:45 am

And apparently there's another hidden tape called the "nixon" tape.
Im also curious how much ammo they had on them when they committed suicide.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 2:47 am

Body language from the cafeteria seems to indicate that they both looked a bit dejected that the bombs didn't properly detonate (particularly Eric who made wild boasts about how powerful their bombs were going to be). Eric even gets desperate enough to shoot at the propane tank in the cafeteria, trying to get it to explode. Going by what many eyewitnesses in the library mentioned, they kept telling everyone they were going to blow the library/school up, so they must've still had their hearts set on it. Do I believe they ever regretted the massacre? Doubtful (although they probably regretted how the bombs were pretty much a failure). They were past the point of caring for anyone but themselves. If they didn't even care enough to think about the repercussions their actions would have for their parents, then obviously they didn't give a shit about anyone else. Letting people live was part of their lame God complex fantasy that they lived out.

I know Eric and Dylan sympathisers won't want to hear this, but I'm glad that Eric smashed himself in the nose whilst shooting Cassie (a nice dose of karma that, whilst not coming close to the agony E&D meted out to others, was something I'm glad happened to him as a result of his action). Apparently Dylan didn't die instantly, either. I only hope he felt agony and discomfort as he inhaled his own blood drawing his last breaths. Again, the result of his actions. Disappointed/embarrassed that they were unable to deliver their master plan they bragged about "doing right and better than others" and in pain once the adrenalin wore off, that's how I'd like to think they died.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 3:01 am

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Seems like your a little jealous
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 3:03 am

Squid wrote:
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Seems like your a little jealous

Seems like you're one of those desperate teenage tumblr girls with ~a~blackened~soul~ who, lyk, totallt luvs Reb and VoDka omgz!!!111
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 3:04 am

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Wrong-o
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 3:08 am

Squid wrote:
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Wrong-o

Just noticed you're quite defensive of them. Thought you might be one of those ones who take cringey selfies in their custom-made "wrath" or "natural selection" t-shirts. Got that vibe, ya know?
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 3:14 am

No that'd be that wendlabergman chick. But ya I guess I get a little defensive when people (like you) refuse to try to understand people and rather make up their own shallow opinions and try to force others to believe their BS
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 3:43 am

Squid wrote:
No that'd be that wendlabergman chick. But ya I guess I get a little defensive when people (like you) refuse to try to understand people and rather make up their own shallow opinions and try to force others to believe their BS

Try to understand people?

All the guy said was he was glad they had a small dose of karma in their last 30 minutes of life. Would you be so defensive if they were two overweight neckbeards in their 30's in prison today? Did you wish their murdering spree would have been smooth sailing or something?
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 3:48 am

Nah he also said some other BS in another post.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 4:14 am

Squid wrote:
No that'd be that wendlabergman chick. But ya I guess I get a little defensive when people (like you) refuse to try to understand people and rather make up their own shallow opinions and try to force others to believe their BS

As I mentioned in another post, yes, there was speculation that Eric and Dylan were bullied, and provided they didn't decide to become the ultimate bullies themselves, I would have certainly had compassion for them if they were indeed bullied (though, as previously mentioned, there have been reports they E&D were actually the ones who bullied and intimidated others prior to the massacre). Murdering, wounding, and taunting innocent people (most of whom they didn't even know) as "revenge" is just messed up. Shouting something to the effect of "this is for all the shit you jocks put us through" in a LIBRARY of all places indicates that they were using their "revenge" as an excuse to senselessly kill anyone (that, or they watched too many shitty revenge-kill movies *half serious*).

They essentially said it themselves; they were insecure and bitter at world where they felt they didn't fit in and were angry at humanity. You know what? Not everyone will be popular or lucky with the opposite sex in high school, but most mature teens will realise that there's more to life than a cliquey high school and will move on with their lives and grow out of the "fuck the world" high school mentality, instead of having a big, immature, homicidal tantrum. I call BS on the "bullying" justification. Even Sue Klebold herself said she was perplexed when Dylan mentioned on the goodbye basement tape that distant relatives whom none of the Klebold family really had much to do with treated him like the "runt of the litter'. It's like the boys were grasping at straws to excuse their desire to go on a pathetic power trip and carry out a senseless massacre. I get sick of people trying to use that flimsy excuse for what they did.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with exploring why E&D came to be the people they were, and as an example, I appreciate Sue Klebold's efforts in doing so (although I think that deep down, she is still somewhat in denial about her son's exact role in the massacre), but it's any hint of justification for what E&D did that I will never understand.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 4:23 pm

cyn1231 wrote:
IMO
When eric and dylan killed themself did they die happy with what they did or did they regret it all?

Also the question of what the basement tapes were like drives me nuts

I get the impression that they both were pretty bummed about the way the whole thing went down, and probably died pretty miserable, at least Eric. Dylan was probably just happy to get the whole thing over with.

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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 7:02 pm

I think they died feeling miserable. But if there's an afterlife and they know how much they're talked about today and how much of an impact they made, they'd be thrilled.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 9:23 pm

Squid wrote:
No that'd be that wendlabergman chick. But ya I guess I get a little defensive when people (like you) refuse to try to understand people and rather make up their own shallow opinions and try to force others to believe their BS

That was a Halloween costume which I no longer have. Please don't name-drop me without tagging me.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 9:56 pm

bubbles wrote:
Body language from the cafeteria seems to indicate that they both looked a bit dejected that the bombs didn't properly detonate (particularly Eric who made wild boasts about how powerful their bombs were going to be). Eric even gets desperate enough to shoot at the propane tank in the cafeteria, trying to get it to explode. Going by what many eyewitnesses in the library mentioned, they kept telling everyone they were going to blow the library/school up, so they must've still had their hearts set on it. Do I believe they ever regretted the massacre? Doubtful (although they probably regretted how the bombs were pretty much a failure). They were past the point of caring for anyone but themselves. If they didn't even care enough to think about the repercussions their actions would have for their parents, then obviously they didn't give a shit about anyone else. Letting people live was part of their lame God complex fantasy that they lived out.

I know Eric and Dylan sympathisers won't want to hear this, but I'm glad that Eric smashed himself in the nose whilst shooting Cassie (a nice dose of karma that, whilst not coming close to the agony E&D meted out to others, was something I'm glad happened to him as a result of his action). Apparently Dylan didn't die instantly, either. I only hope he felt agony and discomfort as he inhaled his own blood drawing his last breaths. Again, the result of his actions. Disappointed/embarrassed that they were unable to deliver their master plan they bragged about "doing right and better than others" and in pain once the adrenalin wore off, that's how I'd like to think they died.


Oh, but you who are probably several years older than E&D ever lived to be are glad of the deaths of two troubled teenagers and hope they suffered when they died as much as possible. Yes,  that illustrates just how high minded and compassionate you are.Yes, you are just sooo much better and moral than all Columbiners or likely anyone else.  Rolling Eyes


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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 10:06 pm

Squid,
I don't think you meant it in a mean way but I asK others to  please stop picking on WendlaBergman.
I don't know her well but she seems very nice and I've never seen her be rude to anyone.


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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 10:11 pm

Gctiger wrote:
Squid wrote:
No that'd be that wendlabergman chick. But ya I guess I get a little defensive when people (like you) refuse to try to understand people and rather make up their own shallow opinions and try to force others to believe their BS

Try to understand people?

All the guy said was he was glad they had a small dose of karma in their last 30 minutes of life. Would you be so defensive if they were two overweight neckbeards in their 30's in prison today?  Did you wish their murdering spree would have been smooth sailing or something?


They died at age 17 and 18.How much more karma can you wish on somebody?

To wish more is nothing but vengeful and a longing for revenge.And that makes you better how?
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeWed Mar 30, 2016 10:35 pm

I made a thread before about them maybe regretting it during the shooting, particularly Eric, so I find this really interesting.

I dunno, i think it's really interesting to think about this, to be quite honest, I go back and forth with this. At one point, I imagine it being that they were so pumped up, ready to go, it's gonna be awesome type of thing and after those first couple of shots and hitting that point of no return, it could be that it wasn't how they imagined it to be at all and that they did regret it but didn't want to show it to one another.

Like, you could compare it to that child-like behavior where you want something so so bad and when you get it you just get disappointed. I feel like that maybe Eric felt this way, Dylan was definitely enjoying it, whooping it up all the time. During their 'down period' and roaming the school, it could be that Eric thought to himself "man what have i done? definitely not like in the movies, no more comfort of being home, in my bed, contact with my parents, my brother... no more DOOM, no more movies, is this really what I wanted?" ...

On the other hand, you could say they just didn't care and wanted to make everything seem as 'bad ass' as possible, going around school, destroying stuff, being in delusion, Eric waving at reporters in that CC footage etc...

I think both scenarios are possible I dunno, but I think, if they ever did regret it during the shooting, I think it had to be Eric, definitely not Dylan. Dylan was in this delusion about exiting life, going to something better, so I think he just rode it out, enjoying the mayhem, looking forward to the grand finale.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 3:42 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
bubbles wrote:
Body language from the cafeteria seems to indicate that they both looked a bit dejected that the bombs didn't properly detonate (particularly Eric who made wild boasts about how powerful their bombs were going to be). Eric even gets desperate enough to shoot at the propane tank in the cafeteria, trying to get it to explode. Going by what many eyewitnesses in the library mentioned, they kept telling everyone they were going to blow the library/school up, so they must've still had their hearts set on it. Do I believe they ever regretted the massacre? Doubtful (although they probably regretted how the bombs were pretty much a failure). They were past the point of caring for anyone but themselves. If they didn't even care enough to think about the repercussions their actions would have for their parents, then obviously they didn't give a shit about anyone else. Letting people live was part of their lame God complex fantasy that they lived out.

I know Eric and Dylan sympathisers won't want to hear this, but I'm glad that Eric smashed himself in the nose whilst shooting Cassie (a nice dose of karma that, whilst not coming close to the agony E&D meted out to others, was something I'm glad happened to him as a result of his action). Apparently Dylan didn't die instantly, either. I only hope he felt agony and discomfort as he inhaled his own blood drawing his last breaths. Again, the result of his actions. Disappointed/embarrassed that they were unable to deliver their master plan they bragged about "doing right and better than others" and in pain once the adrenalin wore off, that's how I'd like to think they died.


Oh, but you who are probably several years older than E&D ever lived to be are glad of the deaths of two troubled teenagers and hope they suffered when they died as much as possible. Yes,  that illustrates just how high minded and compassionate you are.Yes, you are just sooo much better and moral than all Columbiners or likely anyone else.  Rolling Eyes

Again, they made the choice to do what they did that day, including killing themselves. The people they selfishly murdered and wounded had little say in what happened to them that day. I think any reasonable person can understand why my sympathy lies solely with their victims.

And yeah, as someone in my mid-twenties, I can definitely see that teenagers can be pretty stupid at times. I was pretty irrational as a teen, but thankfully not irrational/selfish enough to do something along the lines of what E&D did.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 4:08 am

bubbles wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
bubbles wrote:
Body language from the cafeteria seems to indicate that they both looked a bit dejected that the bombs didn't properly detonate (particularly Eric who made wild boasts about how powerful their bombs were going to be). Eric even gets desperate enough to shoot at the propane tank in the cafeteria, trying to get it to explode. Going by what many eyewitnesses in the library mentioned, they kept telling everyone they were going to blow the library/school up, so they must've still had their hearts set on it. Do I believe they ever regretted the massacre? Doubtful (although they probably regretted how the bombs were pretty much a failure). They were past the point of caring for anyone but themselves. If they didn't even care enough to think about the repercussions their actions would have for their parents, then obviously they didn't give a shit about anyone else. Letting people live was part of their lame God complex fantasy that they lived out.

I know Eric and Dylan sympathisers won't want to hear this, but I'm glad that Eric smashed himself in the nose whilst shooting Cassie (a nice dose of karma that, whilst not coming close to the agony E&D meted out to others, was something I'm glad happened to him as a result of his action). Apparently Dylan didn't die instantly, either. I only hope he felt agony and discomfort as he inhaled his own blood drawing his last breaths. Again, the result of his actions. Disappointed/embarrassed that they were unable to deliver their master plan they bragged about "doing right and better than others" and in pain once the adrenalin wore off, that's how I'd like to think they died.


Oh, but you who are probably several years older than E&D ever lived to be are glad of the deaths of two troubled teenagers and hope they suffered when they died as much as possible. Yes,  that illustrates just how high minded and compassionate you are.Yes, you are just sooo much better and moral than all Columbiners or likely anyone else.  Rolling Eyes

Again, they made the choice to do what they did that day, including killing themselves. The people they selfishly murdered and wounded had little say in what happened to them that day. I think any reasonable person can understand why my sympathy lies solely with their victims.

And yeah, as someone in my mid-twenties, I can definitely see that teenagers can be pretty stupid at times. I was pretty irrational as a teen, but thankfully not irrational/selfish enough to do something along the lines of what E&D did.


I don't have any problem with what you said above and even agree with some of it, but I never said that I didn't have any sympathy for the victims or their relatives.I've always said the opposite.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 5:12 am

Yes, but you seem to take issue with contempt towards Eric and Dylan. Given what they did, I think it's pretty natural for people to feel that way towards them.

You say that me hoping that they died ultimately unhappy and in pain doesn't make me better than them. I have those feelings because of what they did. They had no true justifiable reason to kill and hurt their innocent victims who did NOTHING to them (not that much could really excuse what they did in any circumstances). I believe that my wishes for their final moments are justified due to the horrific decisions they both chose to make.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 5:24 am

bubbles wrote:
Yes, but you seem to take issue with contempt towards Eric and Dylan. Given what they did, I think it's pretty natural for people to feel that way towards them.

You say that me hoping that they died ultimately unhappy and in pain doesn't make me better than them. I have those feelings because of what they did. They had no true justifiable reason to kill and hurt their innocent victims who did NOTHING to them (not that much could really excuse what they did in any circumstances). I believe that my wishes for their final moments are justified due to the horrific decisions they both chose to make.

I am not ignoring your responses to me,but in light of the fact that we could probably never find any common ground on anything,I think it's best for us to not discuss things further. It only seems to lead to conflict.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 6:38 am

Strange that you want to shut down discussion on a "discussion" forum, but okay..

I am just genuinely curious as to why some people feel that there are genuine mitigating factors that somehow vindicate E&D's actions that day or that sympathy is warranted for their deaths as a result of their own choices and actions. It honestly just astonishes me that people feel that way. None of it computes.

I guess that some people don't like their slightly romanticized perception of E&D being challenged? Because I know it's been said many times before, but let's be real, if you put yourself in the position of any of those kids they harmed that day or the families of the murdered kids/coach, I highly doubt any of you would be so quick to defend them. And for their supporters, I doubt they'd think Eric or Dylan were that shit-hot if they were paralysed because of their bullets.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 10:19 am

Shit-hot? Hot shit? Your responses are always laughable. The end.
As for the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] name dropping. I was just pointing out that I'm not the one to take selfies dressed up as E&D as bubbles was disillusioned about and I've pointed him into the right direction to who does as I've come across her picture of herself dressed as in another post. Not that it's a bad or good thing. I don't care either way. I dress pretty weird sometimes too even when it's not Halloween. PS. I think your Halloween costume was cool.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 11:04 am

bubbles is spot on in his response to the OP.

Eric and Dylan were bullied, but how much was in response to their aggressive behavior? Like shooting kids with BB guns. Coming up with derogatory names for freshman. Scrawling homophobic slurs into lockers. Assaulting co-workers. Threatening to kill fellow students. If you put out that much negative energy you are going to get a little back.

Sue Klebold says Dylan's biggest conflict senior year was with a freshman! That does not sound like a kid who is getting that much bullying.

If bullying was the cause of the massacre they would've shot up a football game or the weight room. Instead they went into a library of all places looking for jocks. Shot girls and underclassmen.

This wasn't about bullies.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 11:12 am

Sources?
They went into the library bcos their original plan failed big time.
Your over exaggerating everything to your view. State some hard facts.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 12:04 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
Gctiger wrote:
Squid wrote:
No that'd be that wendlabergman chick. But ya I guess I get a little defensive when people (like you) refuse to try to understand people and rather make up their own shallow opinions and try to force others to believe their BS

Try to understand people?

All the guy said was he was glad they had a small dose of karma in their last 30 minutes of life. Would you be so defensive if they were two overweight neckbeards in their 30's in prison today?  Did you wish their murdering spree would have been smooth sailing or something?


They died at age 17 and 18.How much more karma can you wish on somebody?

To wish more is nothing but vengeful and a longing for revenge.And that makes you better how?

The fact that they were 17-18 really doesn't change anything.  They were fully aware of what they were doing given the insane amount of preparation and attention to detail.  They planned for over a year to murder hundreds of other 18, 17, 16, 15, and 14 year olds along with adult teachers.

And yes, death is the ultimate end point.  It's really as far as "karma" can go.  And no, I'm not going to run around and celebrate they had small doses of karma in their hour of carnage.  But I'm not really going to feel bad that Eric was probably in much pain because of his broken nose, or that their bombs were failures, or that their body count wasn't even near what they wanted it to be.  I'm sure the other person echos my thoughts.  You can't wish MORE karma on someone who is dead.  But their moments alive probably had a sense of failure.  They killed themselves in the library they had just told the cowering students under the table that they were "gonna blow up".  They didn't die in a shootout.  They didn't have "the most deaths in US history".  They died knowing their NBK fantasy was hardly what they planned.  Again, I'm not gonna run around and celebrate that fact.  But I'm not going to sympathize either.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 12:11 pm

Actually, there is no evidence or facts as to why the boys went where and did what because their plan was to blow up the Cafeteria and then stand outside and shoot people as they ran out. They improvised is what they did. And it just so happens that the Library was the closest place to where they started shooting and where they entered the school (the west entrance). It was also the closest place where they could find a lot of people to shoot in a small place.

Shooting kids running through the hall wasn't go to work because Dylan and Eric were not very good at shooting moving targets, most of the students had evacuated the Cafeteria, classrooms had locks on them so what was left? The Library. They wanted to start shooting people as quickly as possible to avoid them from escaping and that was the best place for them to go. I imagine they thought they'd get a high body count in there because they could shoot all their victims at close range, which is what seemed to work best for them. Like I said, they were not very good with handling and shooting guns. (See Rampart Range for example. They were terrible at hitting far away targets and Dylan was holding a loaded gun directed towards his stomach). So they needed targets they could shoot close up, not ones running away.

Columbine was supposed to be a bombing. They targeted the Cafeteria because that is where the most students would be, not the most jocks. This was not about getting revenge on jocks, this was about taking out the entire school and everyone in it. People seem to be so fixated on who they shot and who they didn't shoot and try to use that as proof that they were after certain groups of people, but they weren't. They wanted to blow everybody, including their own friends, up in the Cafeteria explosion.

This was NOT supposed to be a shooting. This was an improvised shooting after a failed bombing attempt. Their victims were people who just so happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There is no rhyme or reason behind any of the people they shot. They shot who was convenient and accessible to them. There is no common denominator between any of their victims to suggest they were after any specific group of people. They shot and killed whoever they saw. It was completely random. Half the people they didn't even look under the tables to see who they were shooting. They just pointed the guns under there and shot. So that right there should tell you that who they killed was all random.

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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 12:29 pm

Jenn wrote:
Actually, there is no evidence or facts as to why the boys went where and did what because their plan was to blow up the Cafeteria and then stand outside and shoot people as they ran out. They improvised is what they did. And it just so happens that the Library was the closest place to where they started shooting and where they entered the school (the west entrance). It was also the closest place where they could find a lot of people to shoot in a small place.

Shooting kids running through the hall wasn't go to work because Dylan and Eric were not very good at shooting moving targets, most of the students had evacuated the Cafeteria, classrooms had locks on them so what was left? The Library. They wanted to start shooting people as quickly as possible to avoid them from escaping and that was the best place for them to go. I imagine they thought they'd get a high body count in there because they could shoot all their victims at close range, which is what seemed to work best for them. Like I said, they were not very good with handling and shooting guns. (See Rampart Range for example. They were terrible at hitting far away targets and Dylan was holding a loaded gun directed towards his stomach). So they needed targets they could shoot close up, not ones running away.

Columbine was supposed to be a bombing. They targeted the Cafeteria because that is where the most students would be, not the most jocks. This was not about getting revenge on jocks, this was about taking out the entire school and everyone in it. People seem to be so fixated on who they shot and who they didn't shoot and try to use that as proof that they were after certain groups of people, but they weren't. They wanted to blow everybody, including their own friends, up in the Cafeteria explosion.

This was NOT supposed to be a shooting. This was an improvised shooting after a failed bombing attempt. Their victims were people who just so happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There is no rhyme or reason behind any of the people they shot. They shot who was convenient and accessible to them. There is no common denominator between any of their victims to suggest they were after any specific group of people. They shot and killed whoever they saw. It was completely random. Half the people they didn't even look under the tables to see who they were shooting. They just pointed the guns under there and shot. So that right there should tell you that who they killed was all random.

Well put, a great synopsis. Let's all remember that Columbine was, first and foremost, a failed bombing. Hell, in the end, they not only wanted to blow up the cafeteria, their classmates, and friends, but even themselves. Everything that happened after they realized the bombs weren't going off and they wouldn't be able to pick off their classmates running out of the cafeteria like some arcade game, everything else was improvisation. And, as we all know, that usually doesn't go too well. It was a disaster in many, many ways, including in E/D's own minds I think.

I do think Eric may have felt a lot more let down about the whole thing, and the up-close shooting than Dylan. By all accounts, Dylan was having a good ole time, laughing like a crazed maniac. All Eric had was a bloody nose and a failed grandiose plan.

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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 12:34 pm

Gctiger wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Gctiger wrote:
Squid wrote:
No that'd be that wendlabergman chick. But ya I guess I get a little defensive when people (like you) refuse to try to understand people and rather make up their own shallow opinions and try to force others to believe their BS

Try to understand people?

All the guy said was he was glad they had a small dose of karma in their last 30 minutes of life. Would you be so defensive if they were two overweight neckbeards in their 30's in prison today?  Did you wish their murdering spree would have been smooth sailing or something?


They died at age 17 and 18.How much more karma can you wish on somebody?

To wish more is nothing but vengeful and a longing for revenge.And that makes you better how?

The fact that they were 17-18 really doesn't change anything.  They were fully aware of what they were doing given the insane amount of preparation and attention to detail.  They planned for over a year to murder hundreds of other 18, 17, 16, 15, and 14 year olds along with adult teachers.

And yes, death is the ultimate end point.  It's really as far as "karma" can go.  And no, I'm not going to run around and celebrate they had small doses of karma in their hour of carnage.  But I'm not really going to feel bad that Eric was probably in much pain because of his broken nose, or that their bombs were failures, or that their body count wasn't even near what they wanted it to be.  I'm sure the other person echos my thoughts.  You can't wish MORE karma on someone who is dead.  But their moments alive probably had a sense of failure.  They killed themselves in the library they had just told the cowering students under the table that they were "gonna blow up".  They didn't die in a shootout.  They didn't have "the most deaths in US history".  They died knowing their NBK fantasy was hardly what they planned.  Again, I'm not gonna run around and celebrate that fact.  But I'm not going to sympathize either.



I'm glad you elaborated more on your thoughts.I don't have any reaction to what you just said.

I do think that sometimes people who are appalled by the fact that Columbiners exist or who come into this and find out we exist think they can reason with them or shame them out of it.I don't know about anybody else but that would never work with me.I've been a Columbiner since I was a kid, over half my my life. I'm well versed in everything and I'm not going to change my mind about E&D or being a Columbiner.You can't shame someone who doesn't feel they are doing anything shameful.
You can't convince someone they are wrong when they wholeheartedly believe they are right.


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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeThu Mar 31, 2016 11:34 pm

ThoughtBox wrote:
Everything that happened after they realized the bombs weren't going off and they wouldn't be able to pick off their classmates running out of the cafeteria like some arcade game, everything else was improvisation.

Nothing groundbreaking to add, but I've been thinking about this and what [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said above.  I wonder if some of the enduring fascination/curiosity about this crime is due to the huge mismatch between their plan and the reality of what they actually did that day.  It explains why some of their actions seem spontaneous and often perplexing/illogical, despite the fact that they'd planned NBK for over a year.  From a purely analytical true-crime-geek standpoint, if you treat Columbine as one big event, from the first mentions of killing people up through E/D's suicides, it doesn't make any 'sense', but that ignores the complete failure of the original plan and the total improvisation of the crime they committed.  Of course, there is also the significant difference between planning a crime and actually doing it, even if the plans go as intended.

To me, it seems like there are two sets of 'why' questions - why they planned the crime they intended to commit and why they made the choices they did on the day.  What fascinates me is the potential difference between the two sets of answers.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeFri Apr 01, 2016 12:57 am

Squid wrote:
Shit-hot? Hot shit? Your responses are always laughable. The end.
As for the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] name dropping. I was just pointing out that I'm not the one to take selfies dressed up as E&D as bubbles was disillusioned about and I've pointed him into the right direction to who does as I've come across her picture of herself dressed as in another post. Not that it's a bad or good thing. I don't care either way. I dress pretty weird sometimes too even when it's not Halloween. PS. I think your Halloween costume was cool.

Okay. Thank you. Smile I went through my clothes earlier because I remembered this post, and found I actually do still have the shirt! It fell behind drawers in my dresser along with some old band tees. I need a bigger dresser. :p
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeFri Apr 01, 2016 3:01 am

Squid wrote:
Shit-hot? Hot shit? Your responses are always laughable. The end.
My responses are always laughable? I think that speaks volumes about your maturity. Looks like I've struck a nerve with you. You seem awfully bitter that I'm calling E&D out for being the hateful, selfish people that they both were. It's okay, though. Keep making excuses for them and deluding yourself that they would have made a conscious decision to spare your life had you been in the position of any one of those kids in the library.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeFri Apr 01, 2016 3:06 am

You didn't struck anything except my funny bone. Go on.
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PostSubject: Re: most unsettling unanswered columbine question   most unsettling unanswered columbine question Icon_minitimeSun Apr 03, 2016 4:33 am

The impossible question.

My speculation: a mix between the two. On one hand they had just completed a final mission, one to which they had, in part, previously dedicated their lives to planning for a solid year. They may have failed in some aspects, but they were able to live out their dream. Lives taken, a school they hated wrecked, godlike egos fed. On the other hand, the failure was quite large. What could have been 500 deaths, was now only 13. Not that they probably knew the exact toll. They obviously were aware of their shortcomings with the bombs, and frustrated by them, hence the return to the cafeteria. But with the masses of adrenaline that were pumping, I feel that they would have been much too hyped and ecstatic to truly understand, and mourn, what had gone wrong. The rush of emotions that both surely must have felt in those final moments would likely have been so much more complex than a question happiness or sadness. A mixture of the two, plus one hundred and one other things. I don't, however, see how either could have died completely unsatisfied.

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