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 Questions Still Unanswered?

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queenfarooq




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PostSubject: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeSat Nov 16, 2013 5:07 pm

What questions about the massacre do you personally have that you feel could always remain unanswered? I don't mean general questions about the massacre that have the answers lurking either somewhere on this forum or within the Columbine documents. What I mean is are there any questions you have where the answers (if any) provided in the official documents just don't add up? Especially to those who have researched Columbine for a long period of time, do you feel there is anything you still can't answer, or never will?

Just a few from me:
1. Is there any other evidence we know nothing about?

2. How did the plan come together? Who came up with the idea, what was said when the plan was formed and did either have serious second thoughts?

3. How many different people were identified as shooters on 4/20 and by how many different witnesses in total?

4. What is the reason Eric and Dylan did not shoot everyone they saw or made eye contact with? I know we spoke about those they had conversations with and speculated why they may not have shot them, but what about everyone else?

5. What did Eric and Dylan actually do in the 48 hours before the attack?

6. How thoroughly was Eric's room searched and was Dylan's room ever searched by his parents?

7. What was on Dylan's computer?

8. What did Eric say in his therapy sessions?

9. Why did it take so long for law enforcement to enter the school? Did they enter prior to what we know?

10. What did the parents say in the depositions and other police interviews?

11. Why were Rachel Scott and Daniel Rohrbough left outside the school for so long?

12. How is the time discrepancy on Rachel Scott's lunch receipt explained, even after it had been adjusted?

13. For that matter, why were there so many time discrepancies on the day of the shooting? Is this normal?

14. How accurate are the basement tape and 911 transcripts we have?

15. Why was the search warrant for the Harris home "missing" for so long?

16. Has any of the evidence been destroyed?

There's so many more that i will post when i can think properly. I'm interested to hear what others have to say, i have a feeling the cafeteria bombs will be brought up.
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JayJay




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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 17, 2013 2:27 am

Those above are good questions. I guess for me the most burning questions are mostly psychological, they have to do with the interaction between Eric and Dylan.

To what extent one led the other on or was it more or less equal? (Just because I'm not convinced it's all Eric being the leader).

How did the subject come about between them in the beginning? From talking about it to actually preparing it, was it Eric who gave the impetus?

Would Dylan have killed others by himself, without Eric giving form to the massacre?

Did they have to convince the other to do it, to go ahead with the planning? Questions about that entry in Dylan's diary about ''I'll go on my killing spree''. How formed was the idea of killing in Dylan's mind at first, without Eric's participation?

I gather we don't know much about other friends who had talked of suicide or killing with one or the other. How much did Dylan talk of killing with Zach, before Eric became closer to Dylan? Were there any other friends that discussed this with either Eric or Dylan? (I'm pretty sure there is more to this than any documents lets on, and I understand why friends would not have divulged that. Not that any one would actually go on a rampage, but maybe discussing it.)

Questions about doubts they may have had as the day of the shooting neared. Did any think of aborting the mission at different moments?

What did they feel during and after the shooting? Did they feel some (even slight) empathy, some regret, disappointment?

Questions about their mental states prior to the shooting, mostly about Eric's mental state because it's less clear from his writings and from his psychological evaluation forms.

Also, questions about the Harris family's denial and handling of Eric's bomb-making schemes, trouble-making prior to the shooting. Why did the dad hang up when the gun store called to say bullets had arrived? Were they dreading that their son was worse off than they thought and sort of dismiss it? Or did they genuinely believe he was doing better after having started the therapy?

I believe there's a ton of young people (young men, especially) who discuss homicide/shooting up their school. What is/are the ignition mechanism(s) from talking about it to actually doing it?

Is therapy / counselling really effective in cases like this or it's just a crap shot?

Questions about the victims too: do some of them forgive? Can you forgive? Can you have empathy for Eric and Dylan or understand why they did it even if you're wounded for life or if your friends/siblings have been killed? What would the Harrises have to say about their son: do they love him still, are angry, have blocked it off? (We know the Klebolds do from Far from the Tree+Oprah mag piece).

So many questions, so few answers. scratch

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"Is evil something you are? Or is it something you do? My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape."
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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 17, 2013 10:08 am

queenfarooq wrote:

7. What was on Dylan's computer?

7 is the one that bothers me all the time.
I feel like Dylan had a crapload of at least one or two of these- more journal entries/writing, porn, doom wads, chatlogs (damn imagine if there were some of him and eric talking)

A question I have is what if the security camera in the library really was on, and they just destroyed the surveillance tape to respect the families?
What if in 2027 more crime scene photos of E&D are leaked/released, as well as the full 911 call and the basement tapes?
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Wideawake

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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 18, 2013 5:05 pm

I have tons of questions, but in general there are a lot of strange things that I feel don't add up or were not properly explored by law enforcement. Or at least, those explanations were not given to us. A few that come to mind:

1. The number of witnesses pressured by police to change their stories - Bryan Frye, Courtney Haulman, Jennifer Tindall, etc.

2. The bank teller (Erik Buckner's mom, pg 1331 of the 11K) who told police that Chris Morris, E&D came into her bank and cashed their checks on April 9th, and that Chris Morris withdrew all the money in his account. What did he use it for?

3. How the hell can we NOT know by now when the bombs were planted? Or even who planted them? We really don't know that it was E&D.

4. This has always bothered me. If you read the search warrant for Eric's house after the massacre (pg 25676), it states "Detective Nick Rogers of Denver Police Department responded to REDACTED South Reed Street, County of Jefferson, State of Colorado, with the Denver and Sheridan Police Departments SWAT Team at about 2:00 p.m. Upon arrival, they discovered Eric Harris' parents and sister inside the house." There's more, of course. But who was the female inside the house? Anybody know?
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Moseley




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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 18, 2013 5:38 pm

Wideawake wrote:
I have tons of questions, but in general there are a lot of strange things that I feel don't add up or were not properly explored by law enforcement. Or at least, those explanations were not given to us. A few that come to mind:

1. The number of witnesses pressured by police to change their stories - Bryan Frye, Courtney Haulman, Jennifer Tindall, etc.

2. The bank teller (Erik Buckner's mom, pg 1331 of the 11K) who told police that Chris Morris, E&D came into her bank and cashed their checks on April 9th, and that Chris Morris withdrew all the money in his account. What did he use it for?

3. How the hell can we NOT know by now when the bombs were planted? Or even who planted them? We really don't know that it was E&D.

4. This has always bothered me. If you read the search warrant for Eric's house after the massacre (pg 25676), it states "Detective Nick Rogers of Denver Police Department responded to REDACTED South Reed Street, County of Jefferson, State of Colorado, with the Denver and Sheridan Police Departments SWAT Team at about 2:00 p.m. Upon arrival, they discovered Eric Harris' parents and sister inside the house." There's more, of course. But who was the female inside the house? Anybody know?
I'm curious what did Frye, Haulman and Tindall say that was changed?
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Wideawake

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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 18, 2013 8:51 pm

Moseley wrote:
Wideawake wrote:
I have tons of questions, but in general there are a lot of strange things that I feel don't add up or were not properly explored by law enforcement. Or at least, those explanations were not given to us. A few that come to mind:

1. The number of witnesses pressured by police to change their stories - Bryan Frye, Courtney Haulman, Jennifer Tindall, etc.

2. The bank teller (Erik Buckner's mom, pg 1331 of the 11K) who told police that Chris Morris, E&D came into her bank and cashed their checks on April 9th, and that Chris Morris withdrew all the money in his account. What did he use it for?

3. How the hell can we NOT know by now when the bombs were planted? Or even who planted them? We really don't know that it was E&D.

4. This has always bothered me. If you read the search warrant for Eric's house after the massacre (pg 25676), it states "Detective Nick Rogers of Denver Police Department responded to REDACTED South Reed Street, County of Jefferson, State of Colorado, with the Denver and Sheridan Police Departments SWAT Team at about 2:00 p.m. Upon arrival, they discovered Eric Harris' parents and sister inside the house." There's more, of course. But who was the female inside the house? Anybody know?
I'm curious what did Frye, Haulman and Tindall say that was changed?
This is what I have written in my notes.

Bryan Frye: immediately identified Harris from media; identified REDACTED as the person who shot Lance Kirklin and pointed REDACTED out to investigators in the yearbook; specifically mentioned that REDACTED had really bad acne; later told police after being pressured that it was Klebold who he saw shoot Lance Kirklin

Courtney "Misty" Haulman: stated that she saw 3 shooters and identified REDACTED as "the main one"; was shown three photo lineups and identified 2 photos as those of the shooters, but it is not noted who the people were that she identified; was later discredited by the police because the investigating officer said she was disoriented and confused about where the shooters were standing (this was 6 months after the massacre)

Jennifer Tindall: originally stated that she saw a gunman in a white tee shirt standing with a heavy-set guy in a trench coat with long black hair, at that time told police that they were not Harris or Klebold; picked REDACTED from a photo lineup; later agreed with police that it must have been Harris and Klebold she saw

A few others I made notes about:

Crystal Archuleta: originally stated that the shooter she saw was REDACTED (later in the report it says Perry), was shown pictures of Klebold and denied that it was him; specifically stated that the shooter she saw had "bad acne" and walked "pigeon-toed"; later told police it was Klebold

Jonathan Cole: repeatedly stated he saw 3 shooters, 2 in trench coats and 1 in a white tee shirt, saw them all at the same time; the one in the white tee shirt told the others to "go, go, go!"; he wasn't pressured by police, but was hospitalized several times in the course of the investigation and his mother denied further interviews.




I have more, but no time at the moment. I'm not saying I think there were more shooters or that there was a conspiracy theory. But it seems like JeffCo's idea of follow up is actually "pressure people into believing the official story" than actual follow up. My opinion only though.
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queenfarooq




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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 5:09 pm

Wideawake wrote:


4. This has always bothered me. If you read the search warrant for Eric's house after the massacre (pg 25676), it states "Detective Nick Rogers of Denver Police Department responded to REDACTED South Reed Street, County of Jefferson, State of Colorado, with the Denver and Sheridan Police Departments SWAT Team at about 2:00 p.m. Upon arrival, they discovered Eric Harris' parents and sister inside the house." There's more, of course. But who was the female inside the house? Anybody know?
I assume this could  be some kind of a mistake. Mrs Harris' sister was  at the Harris residence on the day of the massacre. "once inside the residence, WHEELDON learned that there were three known people occupying the house upon the arrival of the police. These individuals were identified as Mr and Mrs HARRIS and Mrs HARRIS'S sister" pg(10222) She is mentioned a couple of times as been there in the report. Her name is Karen Shepard ans she is Eric's mothers twin sister, interestingly she was also on his shit list i believe.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 5:14 pm

queenfarooq wrote:
Her name is Karen Shepard ans she is Eric's mothers twin sister, interestingly she was also on his shit list i believe.
That is very interesting. Have you been able to track down any possible reason why?

I find it weird that those three people could have been at the Harris residence and not noticed anything amiss that morning. Didn't the place smell like gas? Weren't the boys out in the garage smashing up stuff for shrapnel and making a lot of noise?
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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeWed Nov 20, 2013 5:35 pm

The Auntie's on the Shit List. Gotta love that. Cool 
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queenfarooq




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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 6:21 am

gustopoet wrote:
queenfarooq wrote:
Her name is Karen Shepard ans she is Eric's mothers twin sister, interestingly she was also on his shit list i believe.
That is very interesting. Have you been able to track down any possible reason why?

I find it weird that those three people could have been at the Harris residence and not noticed anything amiss that morning. Didn't the place smell like gas? Weren't the boys out in the garage smashing up stuff for shrapnel and making a lot of noise?
I haven't come across any further mention of Eric's aunt no.

It's frustrating that we don't know how long any of the other Harris family members were home that morning before the police arrived on their doorstep, or before they knew something was going on at the school. I doubt all three family members were home for the entire morning though.
According to the official documents "Upon our arrival, we contacted Wayne Harris, Kathy Harris and Karen Shepard, the occupants. According to Mr. Harris, "the press" had already been at their door. And, while they were reserved, the Harrises volunteered to intercede with their son if he were in fact involved with the ongoing situation. The Harrises were awaiting the arrival of their lawyer." pg(10243)
Presumably the Harris family knew Eric was involved in someway hence the reason they had already contacted their lawyer, the description of "ongoing situation" would imply this interaction occurred fairly early on in the day. Likewise i can imagine the Harris family also saw all the items Eric left behind in the home and realized something was amiss. It doesn't seem to be made clear anywhere how long they were home that morning.

There were reports of the house smelling of gasoline yes. "WHEELDON smelled a very strong odor of automobile engine gasoline throughout the HARRIS' house. WHEELDON asked Mr. HARRIS if the odor of gas was normal and he replied "no"."WHEELDON attempted to locate the source of the gasoline odor. WHEELDON walked through the living room and into the HARRIS'S two car garage at which time it was obvious that the gas odor was originating from within the HARRIS'S garage because of the heaviness of the odor. pg(10222) "It was decided that due to the gas vapors and the possibility of a bomb inside the house the house would be evacuated." pg(10223)

You're right they were in the garage reportedly making a lot of noise on 4/20. Ed Reffitt (was working on the house next to Harris') says "at approximately 09:00 a.m. KLEBOLD drove up to HARRIS home. He stated the garage door opened while KLEBOLD was still in the car and KLEBOLD pulled the vehicle into the garage and the door closed. REFFITT stated he heard glass breaking in the garage and the car left shortly after 09:00 a.m. He stated he did not see who was in the car when it left. REFFTIT stated the vehicle he saw on April 20,1999 was an older dark grey BMW with large speakers in the back window. pg(10237)

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
The Auntie's on the Shit List. Gotta love that. Cool 
Yeah i wonder what she did, or more likely what Eric perceived her to have done.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions Still Unanswered?   Questions Still Unanswered? Icon_minitimeSat Nov 23, 2013 4:11 pm


10. What did the parents say in the depositions and other police interviews?

2027 is when the transcript becomes declassified

15. Why was the search warrant for the Harris home "missing" for so long?

I mean it was a legit report and search warrant because of the death threats,I know the county officials met and decided to basically cover their asses...the original must of been shredded.
All around the people in charge of responding and reporting on Columbine collectively screwed the pooch on this one.
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