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 Was Columbine the cruelest?

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 12:35 am

I was thinking of other school and mass shootings and both the severity of the injured but also the way the shooters behaved.

Did Columbine last the longest? Also were Eric and Dylan’s taunts worse than other shooters?

Also I think Vegas might have had the most injured but Columbine left 2 or 3 kids paralyzed among dozens of traumatized people with physical and emotional scars.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 2:26 am

I think Eric and Dylan were the luckiest with their circumstances, but at the same time I do feel the victims had it pretty bad.

In most shootings it's over and done with in 10-20 minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 4:28 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
Also were Eric and Dylan’s taunts worse than other shooters? 

I mean most mass shooters are focused more on killing people then thinking up good insults.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 8:47 am

I will say that it was probably the longest when compared to recent school shootings. These modern day shootings have been fairly fast, most over in a matter of minutes, as Ivan stated. BUT the Columbine victims were trapped in the school for hours, hearing nothing but fire alarms, smelling smoke, hearing booms of the pipe bombs and crickets, etc.

If they were unlucky enough to have been in the library then they had to hear others being taunted, shot. They heard Bree Pasquale begging Eric not to kill her over and over again, and then having to watch/listen as people died in agony all around them. They pretty much had no idea what was going on anywhere else besides the rooms,closets,cabinets they had hidden in.

Unlike the victims of recent shootings who were on their cells recording, live streaming, texting.  Take Parkland for example. Those kids knew what was going on, they knew when Cruz was identified, they knew when the danger had past.  With Columbine Eric and Dylan had free rein of the school due to police/SWAT not entering it to engage them, and their victims were hampered by the shitty technology at the time.

So again, the situation with Columbine was somewhat unique in the fact that Eric and Dylan did have the time and opportunity to be cruel to their victims. I think QuestionMark is right as well. Most shooters now know they have a very limited time before the police are on them, SO they just try for a high body count.  

Just think if E&D if had went into the school ONLY shooting and not bothering to torment their victims, their kill count would have been much higher. So the fact they did waste time by taunting people likely saved a lot of lives.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 8:53 am

IDK. I always think Sandy Hook was bad just because of the ages of the victims. Most had no idea what was going on and I can't imagine how scared they were.

It is hard to compare victims though

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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 9:20 am

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If these interpretations of what they are saying during the shooting is true then I guess it is the cruelest in the sense that they had the most fun doing it.

I have read witnesses saying Dylan especially seemed to have fun, I wonder why? I mean Eric seems to be having a blast too. Is it just because Dylan was more noticable and walked around more?

If Eric or Dylan would have done the shooting alone I think they wouldn't have been as expressive.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 10:01 am

munchkinphone wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  

If these interpretations of what they are saying during the shooting is true then I guess it is the cruelest in the sense that they had the most fun doing it.

I have read witnesses saying Dylan especially seemed to have fun, I wonder why? I mean Eric seems to be having a blast too. Is it just because Dylan was more noticable and walked around more?

If Eric or Dylan would have done the shooting alone I think they wouldn't have been as expressive.

I got the feeling they were treating it like a movie or video game. From planning on what they were wearing to making the basement tapes they seemed to want to make an impression.

I read somewhere it was Dylan saying "wooo!!' in the library when the pipe bombs went off but I always thought that was Eric. Have we ever talked about why we thought Dylan was having the time of his life? I always thought it was because he was so awkward and shy in his daily life, he was the "nice" guy and filled with a lot of rage and he let it out. I sometimes think he was putting on a show for Eric, but that leads into the whole "Dylan was a follower" thing. I also think, and people can agree or disagree with the bullying, they probably wanted people to feel as awful as they did. They became the ultimate bullies that day.

Sandy Hook was absolutely crueler due to the age of the victims. I cannot wrap my head around a 20 something year old killing 6 year olds. Which then brings up the discussion of WHY is it any worse than an 18 year old killing a 14 year old... It's not any worse but there is just something about it, you have 2 teenagers trying to kill their classmates but then an adult killing small children, it is different.

In the school shootings like Parkland, were there as many injured as in Columbine?

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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 10:23 am

munchkinphone wrote:
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The above video is NOT accurate.

In the publicly released Patti 911 call the only person you hear get shot is Kyle Velasquez. There was another segment clipped that included girls screaming/shot (Townsend, Schnurr).

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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 1:08 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:

I got the feeling they were treating it like a movie or video game. 

Well obviously, they talked about who was going to adapt their story to the big screen after all.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 2:33 pm

sororityalpha wrote:
munchkinphone wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The above video is NOT accurate.

In the publicly released Patti 911 call the only person you hear get shot is Kyle Velasquez. There was another segment clipped that included girls screaming/shot (Townsend, Schnurr).


I'm sceptical as well but there are parts that can be heard on multiple versions of the call and that doesn't make sense for a dispatcher to say.

Also I think the timing seems accurate because Patti describes them going "wooo" right after you can hear them go wooo.

Also the voices do sound like them, it wouldn't be easy to fake.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 2:35 pm

Dunblane and Sandy Hook were very bad because they were elementary schools, but the scene of Martin Bryant Shooting dead the mother before killing her 2 kids, chasing one around a tree to kill her. He was reported to be laughing throughout the rampage. Those would probably be the crulest Shootings.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 3:11 pm

Aaron Cohn claims Eric said "this is great" and then laughed

Apparently they also asked people what's so funny, I doubt anyone was laughing when they said that.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 3:32 pm

munchkinphone wrote:
Aaron Cohn claims Eric said "this is great" and then laughed

Apparently they also asked people what's so funny, I doubt anyone was laughing when they said that.

I can't imagine anyone was laughing at them or at all in the library.

One of the kids who were killed asked "haven't you done enough?" I think.

I also vaugely remember someone saying that a girl asked "what is wrong with you?"I always thought that was Val. Also "she's already dead" but I don't know if that is true.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Columbine the cruelest?    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 9:29 pm

Quote :
One of the kids who were killed asked "haven't you done enough?" I think.


That was allegedly said by John Tomlin, but I don't think it's true. Nicole Nowlen never mentioned it in the 11k.

In the audio of Lauren Townsend's death, I've seen some people claim to hear Val scream "What is wrong with you?" just before her infamous screams of "Oh my God, help me."


Last edited by Szabo on Tue May 08, 2018 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: boog    Was Columbine the cruelest?  Icon_minitimeTue May 08, 2018 9:38 pm

sororityalpha wrote:
munchkinphone wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The above video is NOT accurate.

In the publicly released Patti 911 call the only person you hear get shot is Kyle Velasquez. There was another segment clipped that included girls screaming/shot (Townsend, Schnurr).


Didn't know the Kyle Velasquez part, thanks for the info.

Guys, don't forget: there was a 32-minute period between the end of the library massacre and E&D's suicides where they wandered around aimlessly shooting into empty classrooms, fought lamely with cops from afar, and failed to shoot out their bombs in the cafeteria.
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