A muddle of everything I've wondered the past while.

Are the Harris's anymore to "blame" than the Klebolds?

Why do people seem let Dylan off more lightly?

Are the "suicidal/homicidal" tags placed on them accurate?

Psychopath or not?

Ever wonder what was on Dylans hard drive that he wanted gone so badly?
(Did he have a "foot fetish, & bondage, exteme liking. or "a foot fetish, & bondage exteme, liking." ?)

The harris' knew there were problems but by appearance everything looked to be normal. Same for Dylan.

No one had a good reason to suggest something more serious than normal adolescent problems was occurring. I can't blame the Harris' because if I did then I would be assuming they knew something bad was going to happened and they had no clue. Though, I am interested to read the release of their testimonies in 2027.

Mainly perceptions on how people perceive them. I do find the psychological diagnoses to be simplistic. It is just restricting the cause to them and not trying get into school environment. Though the conclusion likely helped the school avoid taking any blame for what happened as there were lawsuits against the school and some teachers.

Dylan's computer could have had some social taboo content. Or he could have just killed the computer the way he would eventually kill himself later on. He apparently loved computers. And I am sure he didn't mind passing it onto any of his friends(I doubt it).

I think both the families are to blame, even just a little. Why didn't they notice that their kids spent a lot of time breaking shit in their garage and going to gun shows? Because those are some early warning signs.

areyoulistening wrote:

(Did he have a "foot fetish, & bondage, exteme liking. or "a foot fetish, & bondage exteme, liking." ?)

You know, that is a good question and I never really thought about that until now. I am going to say he had an 'extreme liking'.

philosopher_king wrote:

The harris' knew there were problems but by appearance everything looked to be normal. Same for Dylan.

No one had a good reason to suggest something more serious than normal adolescent problems was occurring. I can't blame the Harris' because if I did then I would be assuming they knew something bad was going to happened and they had no clue. Though, I am interested to read the release of their testimonies in 2027.

Mainly perceptions on how people perceive them. I do find the psychological diagnoses to be simplistic. It is just restricting the cause to them and not trying get into school environment. Though the conclusion likely helped the school avoid taking any blame for what happened as there were lawsuits against the school and some teachers.

Dylan's computer could have had some social taboo content. Or he could have just killed the computer the way he would eventually kill himself later on. He apparently loved computers. And I am sure he didn't mind passing it onto any of his friends(I doubt it).

Did Dylans folks know that there was problems though? Apparently they saw nothing to tell them that something was wrong. I don't blame them either, it's just something that I've heard quite a bit and had to rethink myself. I agree with everything else you said though

Jenn wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

(Did he have a "foot fetish, & bondage, exteme liking. or "a foot fetish, & bondage exteme, liking." ?)

You know, that is a good question and I never really thought about that until now. I am going to say he had an 'extreme liking'.

I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe it's the foot fetish thing that ties together with extreme bondage, in my mind. I know that they're different, it would just make sense.
If it's true, that knocks a perception of Dylan out the window. Nobody ever mentions his foot fetish.

Dang Dylan and his lack of punctuation.

Dylan always seems to be described by people who knew him as gentle and kind. Eric seems to often be described as an angry kid who was preoccupied with violence. I have noticed way more people step up to say Dylan was their friend than Eric. I could see that as Eric having fewer friends or fewer redeeming qualities than Dylan but I think more that it's Eric had fewer friends because he moved so much, and people are afraid of calling themselves friends of the "leader"

BurnIt wrote:

Dylan always seems to be described by people who knew him as gentle and kind. Eric seems to often be described as an angry kid who was preoccupied with violence. I have noticed way more people step up to say Dylan was their friend than Eric. I could see that as Eric having fewer friends or fewer redeeming qualities than Dylan but I think more that it's Eric had fewer friends because he moved so much, and people are afraid of calling themselves friends of the "leader"

People also knew Dylan a lot better, he'd lived there his whole life. I'm under the personal opinion that Dylan had just as much rage as Eric did, he just hid it so much better. I agree with you about Eric having less friends because he moved around. I think he would have been okay if he'd lived in one place, or even didn't move from Plattsburgh, he seemed to really like it and his friends there said that he was a lovely person.

I'm happy to see this new forum and have meandered my way over here from word of mouth. ;) Apologies if this is long winded and I've veered a bit 'off topic' for this particular thread. This'll be my first post here and I'll just pop in and add my .02 cents on what was briefly discussed here previously.

I find it fascinating (and telling) that Dylan wiped his computer yet opted to leave behind his private journal. In keeping with D &E's self-proclaimed 'self-awareness', there is no mistaking that Dylan handled both – differing glimpses of his innermost self - with deliberate intent. Did he consider that he didn’t care too much if people, family, friends read and experience his pain and personal struggles via his own hand but perhaps considered the hardcore content on his computer far too much for him to contemplate having it be associated with his overall post NBK persona? Eric left behind his journal with the intent of it being a manifesto of his focused anger and NBK centric planning. Self-loathing, suicide desires and unrequited love color most of Dylan's journals with about 5% of it being NBK-centric. If Dylan had a plethora of NBK related plans on his computer and planned on an equal level with Eric, why not leave the hard drive intact as a legacy just as Eric wanted his journals to be? Imo, I tend to think that Dylan's deep, dark sexual desires were a major shame to him so much so that easiest way to deal with his ‘computer brain’ was to wipe the whole drive leaving nothing accidentally behind to chance. In his journals, he apologizes to his secret love for indulging in his compulsive porn and masturbating habits. Dylan's ideal surrounding the notion of love seems romantic as opposed to your typical openly lustful teenage boy fantasies. He yearns to cuddle, and longs for love, the real thing, pure and true Then there is the secret, dark side he indulges in privately binging, purging, regretting, self- loathing – ultimately purging the entire contents of computer in a matter of seconds.

His foot fetish and bondage liking almost seem, somewhat, contradictory. Usually, - but this is certainly not always the case - hetrosexual men with foot fetishes tends to be on the submissive side of the fence, to differing degrees, with a goddess-like ideal to be in control, if not dominant over them. I don't want to come across 'all or nothing' here because I'm sure there are exceptions to fetishes like everything else in life - but I do have some first hand experience regarding this arena. However, the bondage aspect, would allude a need to dominate and maintain control over women. Perhaps, a loathing and confusion about them: "they all set out to hate & ignore me" gave him an outlet to channel another part of his rage with misognistic flavored bondage porn. On the other hand, if he had a foot fetish it's possible that Dylan fantasized about women dominating and emasculating him in bondage. This may have been the huge, secret, mortification and repulsion for him and the reason for wiping the entire drive rather than deleting only portions of it. On the other hand, if he only F-disked the drive, I believe there are ways to still retrieve stuff? I guess one has to smash the drive like Adam Lanza did to ensure everything is gone. So, if that is the case, Jeffco possibly has recovered some data...

Dylan's journal so romanticizes love with almost no mention of sexual thoughts. He seems to have compartmentalized the two. The only mentions he ever made in his journals that were sexual were apologetic; about fetishes,, about porn, about masturbation. It makes it seem that he was ashamed of any sexual thoughts and I think he wiped his hard drive because he was ashamed of the porn. It's a simple answer and I try hard to not simplify anything about Columbine but I really do think it was porn shame and nothing else.

And no, I don't agree with the homicidal/suicidal tags that are always attached to Eric and Dylan respectively. Dylan was obviously homicidal. He was the more vocal of the two during the massacre; witnesses said he seemed to be having a good time. I don't understand why the suicidal tag is never attached to Eric. He planned NBK for over a year, acknowledging the entire time that he would die doing it. He never expressed any remorse over the thought that he'd have to die to finish NBK or any wish to live past that day.

BurnIt wrote:

And no, I don't agree with the homicidal/suicidal tags that are always attached to Eric and Dylan respectively. Dylan was obviously homicidal. He was the more vocal of the two during the massacre; witnesses said he seemed to be having a good time. I don't understand why the suicidal tag is never attached to Eric. He planned NBK for over a year, acknowledging the entire time that he would die doing it. He never expressed any remorse over the thought that he'd have to die to finish NBK or any wish to live past that day.

You don't get the feeling that perhaps Eric wanted something to stop NBK or that he was hoping to get caught?

Jenn wrote:

You don't get the feeling that perhaps Eric wanted something to stop NBK or that he was hoping to get caught?

I don't think getting caught was the plan but something coming up that could stop it, maybe. I mean, I'd love to think so but we'll never know.

I do believe that Eric needed some reason to stick around in life and he has always struck me as an "all or nothing" type of dude. So when NBK was actually going a head I think he went full board with it and jumped head first into planning it. Could the marines have helped? I don't know. I do think he would have made a great vet though.

areyoulistening wrote:

Jenn wrote:

You don't get the feeling that perhaps Eric wanted something to stop NBK or that he was hoping to get caught?

I don't think getting caught was the plan but something coming up that could stop it, maybe. I mean, I'd love to think so but we'll never know.

I do believe that Eric needed some reason to stick around in life and he has always struck me as an "all or nothing" type of dude. So when NBK was actually going a head I think he went full board with it and jumped head first into planning it. Could the marines have helped? I don't know. I do think he would have made a great vet though.

I just always felt like he left behind clues that he wanted to get caught. Telling his therapist he was homicidal. Uploading his plans into the schools hard drive. Why even do that? That just seems like you're wanting to get caught. Leaving the mini tape recorder in plain sight on the kitchen counter. I don't know, I just think perhaps he wanted to get caught.

I don't, no. I get the feeling he wanted humanity to be something worth saving, and that he was disappointed it wasn't. He seemed to channel all that disappointment into rage. He didn't really see himself worth saving either, I don't think. For all his talk of being Godlike, he ultimately self selected right out out of the gene pool.
A nihilist right to the end I suppose.
But Eric in general bugs me. Which I suppose a whole other post.

BurnIt wrote:

I don't, no. I get the feeling he wanted humanity to be something worth saving, and that he was disappointed it wasn't. He seemed to channel all that disappointment into rage. He didn't really see himself worth saving either, I don't think. For all his talk of being Godlike, he ultimately self selected right out out of the gene pool.
A nihilist right to the end I suppose.
But Eric in general bugs me. Which I suppose a whole other post.

Go ahead and make the post. I'd like hearing it.

Jenn wrote:

BurnIt wrote:

I don't, no. I get the feeling he wanted humanity to be something worth saving, and that he was disappointed it wasn't. He seemed to channel all that disappointment into rage. He didn't really see himself worth saving either, I don't think. For all his talk of being Godlike, he ultimately self selected right out out of the gene pool.
A nihilist right to the end I suppose.
But Eric in general bugs me. Which I suppose a whole other post.

Go ahead and make the post. I'd like hearing it.

I concur.

I think he meant for those plans to be found after all was said and done, if there was anything left of the school. He was always performing for an audience.
The psychiatrist thing...I don't know. I don't think he meant it as a clue. I think he possibly genuinely thought someone could help him. When they didn't, it just fed his disappointment with people.
I've also considered that he possibly used it as a test (what will you do with this clear and present threat of murder?) and viewed the result as a failure, and proof that humans were just too stupid to live.

Jenn wrote:

I just always felt like he left behind clues that he wanted to get caught. Telling his therapist he was homicidal. Uploading his plans into the schools hard drive. Why even do that? That just seems like you're wanting to get caught. Leaving the mini tape recorder in plain sight on the kitchen counter. I don't know, I just think perhaps he wanted to get caught.

Telling his therapist I believe was his cry for help that was seriously missed. He couldn't say outright what he was planning to him, because that means jail for God knows how long so informing him that he had homicidal thoughts was his way of doing that. Mr and Mrs Harris told the Mausers that his therapist told them that it was a routine teenage angst answer or something to that affect and that it was nothing to worry about. I'd love to know what Eric told him. As far as I know, Mr and Mrs Harris don't even know what Eric said because it was sealed. I know that they sued and wanted to see it but I'm not sure if they were granted access to those files or not in the end.

The tape was made the night before though wasn't it? Maybe it was something for his parents that he didn't want Dylan to hear?

areyoulistening wrote:

Are the Harris's anymore to "blame" than the Klebolds?

Why do people seem let Dylan off more lightly?

Are the "suicidal/homicidal" tags placed on them accurate?

Psychopath or not?

Ever wonder what was on Dylans hard drive that he wanted gone so badly?
(Did he have a "foot fetish, & bondage, exteme liking. or "a foot fetish, & bondage exteme, liking." ?)

They're both as much to blame as each other, really.

BurnIt wrote:

Dylan's journal so romanticizes love with almost no mention of sexual thoughts. He seems to have compartmentalized the two. The only mentions he ever made in his journals that were sexual were apologetic; about fetishes,, about porn, about masturbation. It makes it seem that he was ashamed of any sexual thoughts and I think he wiped his hard drive because he was ashamed of the porn. It's a simple answer and I try hard to not simplify anything about Columbine but I really do think it was porn shame and nothing else.

Agreed and compartmentalized is the perfect choice of words.

Being discovered for having secret kinky sexual interests was apparently perceived as more shameful than the revealed secret of NBK. Ah, priorities..

Jenn wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

Jenn wrote:

You don't get the feeling that perhaps Eric wanted something to stop NBK or that he was hoping to get caught?

I don't think getting caught was the plan but something coming up that could stop it, maybe. I mean, I'd love to think so but we'll never know.

I do believe that Eric needed some reason to stick around in life and he has always struck me as an "all or nothing" type of dude. So when NBK was actually going a head I think he went full board with it and jumped head first into planning it. Could the marines have helped? I don't know. I do think he would have made a great vet though.

I just always felt like he left behind clues that he wanted to get caught. Telling his therapist he was homicidal. Uploading his plans into the schools hard drive. Why even do that? That just seems like you're wanting to get caught. Leaving the mini tape recorder in plain sight on the kitchen counter. I don't know, I just think perhaps he wanted to get caught.

I still very much feel this is the case. I believe a week or two ago you and I were having this discussion on the other forum that just got shut down, Jenn (my name was the same there).

Like I said then, it really seems to me that he was torn between just doing whatever so he could die, too, but also trying to be heard and helped. When no one noticed it, (or took it seriously if they did notice it), but chose instead to focus on irrelevant nonsense and harangue him for it, he just felt that he would never be understood, and instead decided to entirely devote the rest of his life to planning destruction and his own death. I do think he was immensely suicidal; just as suicidal as Dylan, in fact, but was not the type to admit it to anyone, but something in him wanted to be caught and saved at the same time. As I also said before, I believe somewhere deep inside Dylan, he also hoped, at some point or another, to maybe be helped, too.

I think Eric wanted to be helped and when it didn't happen, that lack of help just fueled his anger. At some point he committed completely to NBK. I don't know when that was (thanks for nothing Eric with your stupid fake journal) but my guess is that the Luvox and the shrink were the end.

BurnIt wrote:

I think Eric wanted to be helped and when it didn't happen, that lack of help just fueled his anger. At some point he committed completely to NBK. I don't know when that was (thanks for nothing Eric with your stupid fake journal) but my guess is that the Luvox and the shrink were the end.

Most people say the military was his last attempt to get help, but it was actually probably a diversion.

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

BurnIt wrote:

Dylan's journal so romanticizes love with almost no mention of sexual thoughts. He seems to have compartmentalized the two. The only mentions he ever made in his journals that were sexual were apologetic; about fetishes,, about porn, about masturbation. It makes it seem that he was ashamed of any sexual thoughts and I think he wiped his hard drive because he was ashamed of the porn. It's a simple answer and I try hard to not simplify anything about Columbine but I really do think it was porn shame and nothing else.

Agreed and compartmentalized is the perfect choice of words.

Being discovered for having secret kinky sexual interests was apparently perceived as more shameful than the revealed secret of NBK. Ah, priorities..

I am always wondering if Dylan actually did know his sexual preferences that good. He was afterall still a virgin and how do you know what you really like if you never had the experienxe in that area? Maybe he watched some perverted porne and got aroused(yuk, I am getting kind of nauseous from this post), because, you know, he was like a 16 year old boy back then and they get horney from EVERYTHING!!!

He was also quite the Tarantinofan and Quintin is known for his footfetish: it makes me wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that he thought he was into such a thing?!

I'm interested in your opinion Ivan.

On Eric. When did he give up? I also think the military was a diversion.

I don't know about Dylan. I suppose I could say I knew what turned me on when I was 16. All that ever struck me about Dylan's fetish thing was that he seemed so deeply ashamed of his fetishes, of any sexual thoughts at all, and I imagine that fed into his depression and self loathing. And what a damned shame that is. A foot fetish and/or a bondage fetish are so normal they're nearly boring. It's sad he felt he was so incredibly perverted.

BurnIt wrote:

On Eric. When did he give up? I also think the military was a diversion.

I don't know about Dylan. I suppose I could say I knew what turned me on when I was 16. All that ever struck me about Dylan's fetish thing was that he seemed so deeply ashamed of his fetishes, of any sexual thoughts at all, and I imagine that fed into his depression and self loathing. And what a damned shame that is. A foot fetish and/or a bondage fetish are so normal they're nearly boring. It's sad he felt he was so incredibly perverted.

There's so much uncertain about Eric. Calling him a psychopath and untreatable is absurdly simple and clean. Human beings just aren't wired that easily.
Eric Harris was so much more than we see and the information that we have. I'm aware that sounds slightly fan girlish but I can promise that it isn't, I'm just interested in people and I like to see all sides. I generally see the good in people anyway....

Dylan was undoubtedly ashamed of what he was turned on by. Could that be because of his religious background? I don't know how strict that was though.
But it could also be the "extreme" nature of what turned him on that possibly made him think that there was something wrong. I just know that 17 year old boys do not stop masturbating for no good reason. He must have felt a strong enough conviction about it to stop.

Man, I'd love to sit and talk this stuff through with them. Again, not fan girling, human behavior fascinates me.

Meh. I have had to catch myself a few times, delete a post I was going to write or a response i was gojng to post, because reading it back to myself I found it too fan girly sounding. My "thing" is trying to find what is hidden. Dylan was a bit of a mindfuck to me. Murdered 13 people. Go look for hidden good side. Find journal of desperately suicidal "I have do much love" kid. Ok. Good found. Double check dark side. "Everybody get up now!" OK, yep still there. All done.
The same dichotomy that seems to so trouble everyone who knew Dylan makes complete sense to me. It was so easy that it fucked with me for a minute. Usually I have to hunt around. But Dylan put his whole heart right out there. Full iof love, full if hate, it's all there in spades.
Eric is hard. I'm having a hard time finding the good that balances the bad. I know it has to be in there and I like balance and i believe in balance so I keep looking. And it just....isn't there? Yet? I don't know. I think I can come off as fan girling Eric when I'm looking around so hard for his redeeming qualities. Which is ironic because if I had to pick a word with which to articulate my feelings about Eric, I would say that I am annoyed by him. All this theatre and the show he put on and then NOTHING. NOTHING underneath. No record left at all of him that he didn't manipulate. Bah.

BurnIt wrote:

Meh. I have had to catch myself a few times, delete a post I was going to write or a response i was gojng to post, because reading it back to myself I found it too fan girly sounding. My "thing" is trying to find what is hidden. Dylan was a bit of a mindfuck to me. Murdered 13 people. Go look for hidden good side. Find journal of desperately suicidal "I have do much love" kid. Ok. Good found. Double check dark side. "Everybody get up now!" OK, yep still there. All done.
The same dichotomy that seems to so trouble everyone who knew Dylan makes complete sense to me. It was so easy that it fucked with me for a minute. Usually I have to hunt around. But Dylan put his whole heart right out there. Full iof love, full if hate, it's all there in spades.
Eric is hard. I'm having a hard time finding the good that balances the bad. I know it has to be in there and I like balance and i believe in balance so I keep looking. And it just....isn't there? Yet? I don't know. I think I can come off as fan girling Eric when I'm looking around so hard for his redeeming qualities. Which is ironic because if I had to pick a word with which to articulate my feelings about Eric, I would say that I am annoyed by him. All this theatre and the show he put on and then NOTHING. NOTHING underneath. No record left at all of him that he didn't manipulate. Bah.

Funny how people can think completely different about things: Dylan remains a big puzzle to me...On some level I understand his personality, because I am suffering from some of his curses too. Such as trying to please people and avoiding arguments and when I can't: the bomb bursts. His behaviour on 4-20 is something I can't understand and never will. All there is, is speculation on that point.
Till that day there was this split personallity: an easygoing somehow troubled shy teenager, who was clever, creative and really funny. on the other hand a deeply disturbed, dypressed and insane kid, who hates himself and creates a mindfuck, wich containes him believing being a God.

To me: Eric: nothing special there. Without the rage, there is this somewhat boring kid imo...who thinks he can create gamelevels wich were nothing special, but he is bragging like he is The Jesus Christ of Doomlevelmaking. Very childish too, in his schoolwork there is always the aspect of playing war or that the only thing he likes to do is playing Doom. Jees kid...your seventeen: get a life! But that's just one persons opinion. Maybe your right and there is much more then that first meets the eye, but right now I don't see it...

Please don't hate me for that!

BurnIt wrote:

Meh. I have had to catch myself a few times, delete a post I was going to write or a response i was gojng to post, because reading it back to myself I found it too fan girly sounding. My "thing" is trying to find what is hidden. Dylan was a bit of a mindfuck to me. Murdered 13 people. Go look for hidden good side. Find journal of desperately suicidal "I have do much love" kid. Ok. Good found. Double check dark side. "Everybody get up now!" OK, yep still there. All done.
The same dichotomy that seems to so trouble everyone who knew Dylan makes complete sense to me. It was so easy that it fucked with me for a minute. Usually I have to hunt around. But Dylan put his whole heart right out there. Full iof love, full if hate, it's all there in spades.
Eric is hard. I'm having a hard time finding the good that balances the bad. I know it has to be in there and I like balance and i believe in balance so I keep looking. And it just....isn't there? Yet? I don't know. I think I can come off as fan girling Eric when I'm looking around so hard for his redeeming qualities. Which is ironic because if I had to pick a word with which to articulate my feelings about Eric, I would say that I am annoyed by him. All this theatre and the show he put on and then NOTHING. NOTHING underneath. No record left at all of him that he didn't manipulate. Bah.

I think I'm actually going to cry! I'd written a long, well thought out response, and it never sent!

I think with the "fan girl" sounding stuff, you can only try your best to rephrase things but sometimes it still can come across that way.

See I'm the opposite, Dylan annoys the hell out me! His friends and parents have described him as loving and kind and I have no doubt that he could be kind and genuinely mean it. Yet he said to a dying Lance Kirklin "sure, I'll help you" and then shot him in the face! (Thankfully he survived) I mean which side of him is the truth? are they both the truth?

Eric I think let some emotion out in his journal sometimes, maybe without meaning to. His "bad-ass" persona frustrates the hell out of me and the only person that ever says anything nice about him is Susan DeWitt and both of his bosses. In work he had to be professional and with Susan he had to be sweet. So yet again, which was he?

I don't think they can be easily put in categories, they were human after all and nobody fits in one particular box. As annoying as it is, for the time being, all we have is the information that we have. I can't see anything else being released until the parents dispositions in 2027.

My original post explained things so much better but I can't remember it now

Jenn wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

Jenn wrote:

You don't get the feeling that perhaps Eric wanted something to stop NBK or that he was hoping to get caught?

I don't think getting caught was the plan but something coming up that could stop it, maybe. I mean, I'd love to think so but we'll never know.

I do believe that Eric needed some reason to stick around in life and he has always struck me as an "all or nothing" type of dude. So when NBK was actually going a head I think he went full board with it and jumped head first into planning it. Could the marines have helped? I don't know. I do think he would have made a great vet though.

I just always felt like he left behind clues that he wanted to get caught. Telling his therapist he was homicidal. Uploading his plans into the schools hard drive. Why even do that? That just seems like you're wanting to get caught. Leaving the mini tape recorder in plain sight on the kitchen counter. I don't know, I just think perhaps he wanted to get caught.

I agree. He even announced to his entire physcology class that he kept dreaming of shooting up the school one day and it always ended with him blowing the place up. Also after reading Dylan's story I noticed that it was very similar to what happened on April 20th. I think the person in the story is Dylan.

CatherineM813 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

Jenn wrote:

You don't get the feeling that perhaps Eric wanted something to stop NBK or that he was hoping to get caught?

I don't think getting caught was the plan but something coming up that could stop it, maybe. I mean, I'd love to think so but we'll never know.

I do believe that Eric needed some reason to stick around in life and he has always struck me as an "all or nothing" type of dude. So when NBK was actually going a head I think he went full board with it and jumped head first into planning it. Could the marines have helped? I don't know. I do think he would have made a great vet though.

I just always felt like he left behind clues that he wanted to get caught. Telling his therapist he was homicidal. Uploading his plans into the schools hard drive. Why even do that? That just seems like you're wanting to get caught. Leaving the mini tape recorder in plain sight on the kitchen counter. I don't know, I just think perhaps he wanted to get caught.

I agree. He even announced to his entire physcology class that he kept dreaming of shooting up the school one day and it always ended with him blowing the place up. Also after reading Dylan's story I noticed that it was very similar to what happened on April 20th. I think the person in the story is Dylan.

I think Dylan was both the persons in the story. The narrative one and the shooter. He wanted TO BE the shooter, he admired the shooter. Also I always wondered if Eric was the little prick with the big mouth.

But I didn't want to be off-topic: Maybe they left the little clues out of contempt for the rest of the world; they had fun leaving those and still no one was noticing. Damn, it's hard to make mysef clear, I hope you guys get it.

tragedy79 wrote:

CatherineM813 wrote:

Jenn wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

Jenn wrote:

You don't get the feeling that perhaps Eric wanted something to stop NBK or that he was hoping to get caught?

I don't think getting caught was the plan but something coming up that could stop it, maybe. I mean, I'd love to think so but we'll never know.

I do believe that Eric needed some reason to stick around in life and he has always struck me as an "all or nothing" type of dude. So when NBK was actually going a head I think he went full board with it and jumped head first into planning it. Could the marines have helped? I don't know. I do think he would have made a great vet though.

I just always felt like he left behind clues that he wanted to get caught. Telling his therapist he was homicidal. Uploading his plans into the schools hard drive. Why even do that? That just seems like you're wanting to get caught. Leaving the mini tape recorder in plain sight on the kitchen counter. I don't know, I just think perhaps he wanted to get caught.

I agree. He even announced to his entire physcology class that he kept dreaming of shooting up the school one day and it always ended with him blowing the place up. Also after reading Dylan's story I noticed that it was very similar to what happened on April 20th. I think the person in the story is Dylan.

I think Dylan was both the persons in the story. The narrative one and the shooter. He wanted TO BE the shooter, he admired the shooter. Also I always wondered if Eric was the little prick with the big mouth.

But I didn't want to be off-topic: Maybe they left the little clues out of contempt for the rest of the world; they had fun leaving those and still no one was noticing. Damn, it's hard to make mysef clear, I hope you guys get it.

Good points. I'll have to reread the story again but it's possible that Eric could have been the little prick with the big mouth. And I do get where you are coming from.

Oh now I have to reread the story

tragedy79 wrote:

I think Dylan was both the persons in the story. The narrative one and the shooter. He wanted TO BE the shooter, he admired the shooter. Also I always wondered if Eric was the little prick with the big mouth.

But I didn't want to be off-topic: Maybe they left the little clues out of contempt for the rest of the world; they had fun leaving those and still no one was noticing. Damn, it's hard to make mysef clear, I hope you guys get it.

You make perfect sense. Good observation that Dylan was both the observer and the shooter in his tale. It's almost like the story was his emotional, intellectual transition from invisible, observing nobody to empowered, anti-hero. From passive to active. It was reported that this story was found in his glove box. I would bet he read it on the way to NBK so that he could assume the identity he admired to become on his little 'Judgment Day'.

The clues E&D blatantly left behind ..like foreshadowing bread crumb trails.. do tend to make me chuckle. Because it was all there and no one bothered to pay attention and they were banking on that fact. It's a bit like rousing the Borg on Star Trek:Next Gen - where it takes forever for them (society) to take notice and do something about it. Dylan's teacher Judy Kelly was offended enough to talk to Dylan and then escalate it to his parents. And, yet, if it was that bothersome of a red flag, why did the parents never get a copy of their kids story to take a look at? And who knows, the Klebold's seemed to have been so blind about their "golden child" they probably wouldn't have reprimanded him much anyway. Many things near misses occured and as fate would have it, it was in favor of E & D in the end.

^^ This makes me think of that quote from the basement tapes where Eric says he could convince everyone he had a twin brother coming out of his back. I half think he could have.

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

Being discovered for having secret kinky sexual interests was apparently perceived as more shameful than the revealed secret of NBK. Ah, priorities..

I've always suspected this

Sex is so much more taboo than violence. So that makes sense to me. Especially fetish stuff.
Someone needs to put it out there that nearly EVERYONE has a fetish of some sort

BurnIt wrote:

Sex is so much more taboo than violence. So that makes sense to me. Especially fetish stuff.
Someone needs to put it out there that nearly EVERYONE has a fetish of some sort

I agree that everyone has something that turns them on but we'll never know how deep and possibly dark his fetish went.

I suppose you mean the bondage. He did note extreme liking but even supposing he meant "bondage extreme, liking" rather than "bondage, extreme liking", he seems to have had a warped view of what was normal. I'd guess that what he considered extreme bondage was probably not nearly as extreme as Extreme gets.

I'm just supposing that you meant that because, really, how dark can you get with feet?

BurnIt wrote:

I suppose you mean the bondage. He did note extreme liking but even supposing he meant "bondage extreme, liking" rather than "bondage, extreme liking", he seems to have had a warped view of what was normal. I'd guess that what he considered extreme bondage was probably not nearly as extreme as Extreme gets.

I'm just supposing that you meant that because, really, how dark can you get with feet?

No I'm not talking about the feet, although that does weird me out a bit. There are some pretty nasty places on the internet and you can slowly get warped in. Who knows what kind of stuff he was looking at. It may been nothing but I tend to over think things and 17 year old boys do not stop masturbating and smash their hard drive for nothing.
Then again, I know nothing about him and maybe he was just over reacting, just in my mind it's suspicious.

It's very, very common to lose any kind of sexual desire with depression. That was probably why he quit; if not the whole reason then it was probably a very big factor.
I think he felt weirder than he was and I think he wiped his hard drive because he thought he was some kind of horrifying deviant.
Meh to the feet thing. Can't think of a more harmless fetish than feet.

I'm not really sure whether depression was the main factor in his quiting. The first time he mentions quiting pornography in his journal it's as if he's trying to bargain with the universe like 'well, I quit doing this, and picking on people, so why aren't things getting better for me?' So, his view is that porn is "bad" or "wrong". A bit later on, after he has discovered his 'soul mate', he seems embarassed and remorseful that he is engaging in this activity as if he is cheating on her by doing so.

He never explicitly mentions lustfull fantasies as Eric does. The boldest he goes is "I imagine me and her doing things together, the sound of her laugh, I picture her face, I love her". It's quite a unique perspective for a teen boy. The more he resisted or supressed his natural urges, the more he found himself surfing the web and finding the pull of non-vanilla, taboo (for him) porn more stimulating. Plus, given that he felt disempowered in his daily life erotica combined with power, control and dominance was a power kegger. As for the foot fetish, I'd bet he was initially tweaked by the sensual Selma Hayek scene in From Dusk Till Dawn In fact, I'm sure many teen guys watching that scene felt the physical reaction even when they never in their life considered women's feet an erotic sex practice. Probably majorly confusing but thrilling all at once.

I just think it's too bad he felt that way about his own sexuality.
I've never seen that movie.

Regarding the Tarantino movie-foot fetish subject, I read somewhere that he thought Uma Thurman's character in Pulp Fiction was his "ideal woman" and her feet were shown and referenced to quite a bit. (She does have cute feet, I gotta say)