Would have Nikolas done the shooting if his mother was still alive?

Do you think Nikolas would have done the shooting if his mother was still alive?

Was his mental health and mood already bad enough for him to kill people before the death of his mother (since it worsen after her death) and would have he been able to do it and disappoint and shock his mother and make her fall into despair.

P.S: I am not really sure about the correctness of my questions. "would" + "have" + past participle + question made my brain short-circuit.

That is a somewhat hard question to answer. It's clear that Nikolas was indeed headed down a bad path even before his mother died. But would it had ended with murder had his mom been in perfect health? Who knows?

Nikolas had been physically abusive to his mom over the years, so he apparently wasn't all that worried about her being shocked or in despair.

I do believe Nik loved his mother. But his mental issues were only getting worse and worse. He probably would have done something similar sooner or later even if Lynda hadn't died. But I will say that her passing away also likely pushed him closer to being able to do the things he did.

I don’t think he would have

Well he did say that if his mom died he would kill people and IIRC tried to kill himself not long after her death, so it seems reasonable to assume that if she was alive he probably wouldn't have committed the massacre. 

Though the possibility of killing someone out of anger/on impulse would still be there.

I think that some people have always acted in a bizarre and unpredicatble way that there is always a chance that they go on a Rampage one day, Nikolas Cruz is one of them. He would have done it at a later date even if he mother was alive probably.

Ziamber II wrote:

I think that some people have always acted in a bizarre and unpredicatble way that there is always a chance that they go on a Rampage one day, Nikolas Cruz is one of them.  He would have done it at a later date even if he mother was alive probably.

I can agree with this. It was clear that Cruz's mental state wasn't getting any better, he was just slipping farther down hill. He had no support system, no one really gave a fuck.  So in a sense he was probably considered a lost cause.

I'm sure his mom loved him, but she had no clue how to deal with him. She tried to get him help over the years, then finally seemed to give up and just let him do what he wanted for the most part. I feel Lynda Cruz was overwhelmed and had no real options to pursue in getting Nik help that she hadn't tried previously that had little to no effect on his behavior.

The last few years she was reduced to calling the police on Nik and Zach more of less hoping it would scare them into behaving. Well we all know that it didn't work for either boy. Both had records a mile long. Zach's being worse up until the shooting.

Maybe if his Mom had lived for a few more years he would have out grown the school shooter phase and set his sights more on a work place type shooting. He had worked at the Dollar Tree for like two years, so that could have become a target or as he had said in his confession he(or his Demon)had also considered going to a park and just shooting random people.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Maybe if his Mom had lived for a few more years he would have out grown the school shooter phase and set his sights more on a work place type shooting. He had worked at the Dollar Tree for like two years, so that could have become a target or as he had said in his confession he(or his Demon)had also considered going to a park and just shooting random people.  

Or just quietly kill himself. I mean he did try it twice before the actual shooting, so I think it's more likely he'd try that once or twice more before attempting a rampage.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Maybe if his Mom had lived for a few more years he would have out grown the school shooter phase and set his sights more on a work place type shooting. He had worked at the Dollar Tree for like two years, so that could have become a target or as he had said in his confession he(or his Demon)had also considered going to a park and just shooting random people.  

Or just quietly kill himself. I mean he did try it twice before the actual shooting, so I think it's more likely he'd try that once or twice more before attempting a rampage.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  True. He had attempted suicide a couple of times. Although the seriousness of his attempts are questionable at best.

It seems that none were considered bad enough for an ER visit, and no one really was aware that Nik had even tried to kill himself.  But it is also possible that he could have progressed his attempts and would have been successful one day.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Maybe if his Mom had lived for a few more years he would have out grown the school shooter phase and set his sights more on a work place type shooting. He had worked at the Dollar Tree for like two years, so that could have become a target or as he had said in his confession he(or his Demon)had also considered going to a park and just shooting random people.

Or just quietly kill himself. I mean he did try it twice before the actual shooting, so I think it's more likely he'd try that once or twice more before attempting a rampage.

True, although it was through alcohol poisoning and ingesting ibuprofen so either he was really ignorant or either he didn't really want to die (I definitely think it was the second option). But I do think if he hadn't committed a mass shooting he would have eventually committed suicide. I even think in many cases suicide could have been the only way to prevent a mass shooting.

Why didn't he become an hero on February 14th?

Ziamber II wrote:

Why didn't he become an hero on February 14th?

Well in certain online communities he did.

Ziamber II wrote:

Why didn't he become an hero on February 14th?

He planned on doing it, but he didn't. My theory is he probably didn't feel like doing it like with the Santa Fe shooter.

Halcyon666 wrote:

Ziamber II wrote:

Why didn't he become an hero on February 14th?

He planned on doing it, but he didn't. My theory is he probably didn't feel like doing it like with the Santa Fe shooter.  

OHHH You meant why didn't he commit suicide?! LOL!  

Also I'm fairly sure Dimi told the police that he chickened out. Although I do think its possible Nik wanted to see the fallout of his actions.

Years ago, after the Derrick Bird shootings, i always thought that becoming an hero would be the hardest part of any massacre.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Halcyon666 wrote:

Ziamber II wrote:

Why didn't he become an hero on February 14th?

He planned on doing it, but he didn't. My theory is he probably didn't feel like doing it like with the Santa Fe shooter.  

OHHH You meant why didn't he commit suicide?! LOL!  

Also I'm fairly sure Dimi told the police that he chickened out.   Although I do think its possible Nik wanted to see the fallout of his actions.

Yeah an hero = suicide, the term has an interesting history if you look up the history of it.

I agree with you about Nik wanting to see the fallout.

Ziamber II wrote:

Years ago, after the Derrick Bird shootings, i always thought that becoming an hero would be the hardest part of any massacre.

Some shooters commit a mass shooting to feel alive, so it must not be easy to kill yourself right at the moment when you really feel alive. You're just starting to feel good, you've got adrenaline, you feel like you are something, like you are feared, like you exist and yet you've got to end it all.

Neah wrote:

Ziamber II wrote:

Years ago, after the Derrick Bird shootings, i always thought that becoming an hero would be the hardest part of any massacre.

Some shooters commit a mass shooting to feel alive, so it must not be easy to kill yourself right when you really feel alive. You're just starting to feel good and it's over.

I agree with this, it makes tons of sense.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Maybe if his Mom had lived for a few more years he would have out grown the school shooter phase and set his sights more on a work place type shooting. He had worked at the Dollar Tree for like two years, so that could have become a target or as he had said in his confession he(or his Demon)had also considered going to a park and just shooting random people.  

Or just quietly kill himself. I mean he did try it twice before the actual shooting, so I think it's more likely he'd try that once or twice more before attempting a rampage.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  True. He had attempted suicide a couple of times. Although the seriousness of his attempts are questionable at best.

It seems that none were considered bad enough for an ER visit, and no one really was aware that Nik had even tried to kill himself.  But it is also possible that he could have progressed his attempts and would have been successful one day.

Neah wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Maybe if his Mom had lived for a few more years he would have out grown the school shooter phase and set his sights more on a work place type shooting. He had worked at the Dollar Tree for like two years, so that could have become a target or as he had said in his confession he(or his Demon)had also considered going to a park and just shooting random people.  

Or just quietly kill himself. I mean he did try it twice before the actual shooting, so I think it's more likely he'd try that once or twice more before attempting a rampage.

True, although it was through alcohol poisoning and ingesting ibuprofen so either he was really ignorant or either he didn't really want to die (I definitely think it was the second option). But I do think if he hadn't committed a mass shooting he would have eventually committed suicide. I even think in many cases suicide could have been the only way to prevent a mass shooting.

Maybe it's a bit naïve of me to say but I don't think of Nick as very bright, so what looks like a half-hearted suicide attempt to us may have been wholly serious to him.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Halcyon666 wrote:

Ziamber II wrote:

Why didn't he become an hero on February 14th?

He planned on doing it, but he didn't. My theory is he probably didn't feel like doing it like with the Santa Fe shooter.  

OHHH You meant why didn't he commit suicide?! LOL!  

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

^Helpful reading.

Neah wrote:

Ziamber II wrote:

Years ago, after the Derrick Bird shootings, i always thought that becoming an hero would be the hardest part of any massacre.

Some shooters commit a mass shooting to feel alive, so it must not be easy to kill yourself right at the moment when you really feel alive. You're just starting to feel good, you've got adrenaline, you feel like you are something, like you are feared, like you exist and yet you've got to end it all.

But the reality comes crashing down when the fun wears off, just look at Columbine, and also the scary moment the CMR rampage ended.

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's a bit naïve of me to say but I don't think of Nick as very bright, so what looks like a half-hearted suicide attempt to us may have been wholly serious to him.

True.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's a bit naïve of me to say but I don't think of Nick as very bright, so what looks like a half-hearted suicide attempt to us may have been wholly serious to him.

True.

I am not sure. Maybe the first time he was ignorant and naive but after a failed attempt he should have done his research. It took me two minutes to search and learn that an ibuprofen overdose is not lethal. I don't think Nikolas was stupid even if he was probably not above the average either. Plus he had guns, which is a much more certain way to commit suicide in comparison to the methods he used (and quicker and less painful if done right) so why didn't he do it? Maybe because it was actually too certain.

I don't believe his attempts were serious, but it doesn't mean that his troubles and pain were not serious. I am sure he hoped he wouldn't wake up when he took the pills, but I also think he knew he would wake up. I am not the kind of person who blame people for doing something for attention. If someone is threatening his life, is harming himself for attention, it is that he really suffers from being ignored or lonely. But since iirc Nikolas never told anyone that he attempted suicide, I don't know why he did it. Maybe to feel what being close to death is, or more probably he hoped that someone would find him (but didn't he go to a place where he was alone when he drank the alcohol?) and when he felt better and realized that no-one had found him, he didn't dare to tell anyone about it.

Neah wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's a bit naïve of me to say but I don't think of Nick as very bright, so what looks like a half-hearted suicide attempt to us may have been wholly serious to him.

True.

I am not sure. Maybe the first time he was ignorant and naive but after a failed attempt he should have done his research. It took me two minutes to search and learn that an ibuprofen overdose is not lethal. I don't think Nikolas was stupid even if he was probably not above the average either. Plus he had guns, which is a much more certain way to commit suicide in comparison to the methods he used (and quicker and less painful if done right) so why didn't he do it? Maybe because it was actually too certain.

I don't believe his attempts were serious, but it doesn't mean that his troubles and pain were not serious. I am sure he hoped he wouldn't wake up when he took the pills, but I also think he knew he would wake up. I am not the kind of person who blame people for doing something for attention. If someone is threatening his life, is harming himself for attention, it is that he really suffers from being ignored or lonely. But since iirc Nikolas never told anyone that he attempted suicide, I don't know why he did it. Maybe to feel what being close to death is, or more probably he hoped that someone would find him (but didn't he go to a place where he was alone when he drank the alcohol?) and when he felt better and realized that no-one had found him, he didn't dare to tell anyone about it.

I can agree with this. I truly don't think Nik was serious in his attempts. As you said he had the means to do it right, meaning the guns. But his half-hearted efforts may have been just another unheard "cry" for help on his part.

Sadly that seems to have been the way this kid's life played out.

It’s ironic that he will probably get the death penalty

Ziamber II wrote:

Neah wrote:

Ziamber II wrote:

Years ago, after the Derrick Bird shootings, i always thought that becoming an hero would be the hardest part of any massacre.

Some shooters commit a mass shooting to feel alive, so it must not be easy to kill yourself right at the moment when you really feel alive. You're just starting to feel good, you've got adrenaline, you feel like you are something, like you are feared, like you exist and yet you've got to end it all.

But the reality comes crashing down when the fun wears off, just look at Columbine, and also the scary moment the CMR rampage ended.

Even the greatest cannot escape reality. The perpetrators of the CMR rampage were not the exception.

Smiggles94 wrote:

It’s ironic that he will probably get the death penalty

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Neah wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's a bit naïve of me to say but I don't think of Nick as very bright, so what looks like a half-hearted suicide attempt to us may have been wholly serious to him.

True.

I am not sure. Maybe the first time he was ignorant and naive but after a failed attempt he should have done his research. It took me two minutes to search and learn that an ibuprofen overdose is not lethal. I don't think Nikolas was stupid even if he was probably not above the average either. Plus he had guns, which is a much more certain way to commit suicide in comparison to the methods he used (and quicker and less painful if done right) so why didn't he do it? Maybe because it was actually too certain.

I don't believe his attempts were serious, but it doesn't mean that his troubles and pain were not serious. I am sure he hoped he wouldn't wake up when he took the pills, but I also think he knew he would wake up. I am not the kind of person who blame people for doing something for attention. If someone is threatening his life, is harming himself for attention, it is that he really suffers from being ignored or lonely. But since iirc Nikolas never told anyone that he attempted suicide, I don't know why he did it. Maybe to feel what being close to death is, or more probably he hoped that someone would find him (but didn't he go to a place where he was alone when he drank the alcohol?) and when he felt better and realized that no-one had found him, he didn't dare to tell anyone about it.

I can agree with this. I truly don't think Nik was serious in his attempts. As you said he had the means to do it right, meaning the guns. But his half-hearted efforts may have been just another unheard "cry" for help on his part. 

That was a possibility I hadn't even considered. These half-hearted attempts at killing himself could've been his way of trying to get someone to take action and help him. 

Neah wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's a bit naïve of me to say but I don't think of Nick as very bright, so what looks like a half-hearted suicide attempt to us may have been wholly serious to him.

True.

I am not sure. Maybe the first time he was ignorant and naive but after a failed attempt he should have done his research. It took me two minutes to search and learn that an ibuprofen overdose is not lethal. 

I've heard of idiots who attempted suicide with Febreeze of all things, I could totally believe Nick just didn't understand that ODing on ibuprofen wouldn't be lethal.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I can agree with this. I truly don't think Nik was serious in his attempts. As you said he had the means to do it right, meaning the guns. But his half-hearted efforts may have been just another unheard "cry" for help on his part. 

That was a possibility I hadn't even considered. These half-hearted attempts at killing himself could've been his way of trying to get someone to take action and help him. .

Sadly as I said before, many people stood by and watched Nik nosedive. They didn't so much as bat an eyelash UNTIL after he had killed 17 people.

I really doubt it.I think that the fact that his mom died and he was left with someone that bullied him (his brother) was what made him feel lost.

Unrelated, but what the hell is the CMR rampage? Google's only turned up the Baga massacre, but apparently this one happened in 2014 and was more of a troll thing?

7kids wrote:

Unrelated, but what the hell is the CMR rampage? Google's only turned up the Baga massacre, but apparently this one happened in 2014 and was more of a troll thing?

@Ziamber II   Look what you have gotten started!

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

7kids wrote:

Unrelated, but what the hell is the CMR rampage? Google's only turned up the Baga massacre, but apparently this one happened in 2014 and was more of a troll thing?

@ZiamberII   Look what you have gotten started!

At least Google takes the CMR rampage seriously if it compares it to the Baga massacre. People are still traumatized by so much merciless trolling, it's not something to be taken lightly.

Neah wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

7kids wrote:

Unrelated, but what the hell is the CMR rampage? Google's only turned up the Baga massacre, but apparently this one happened in 2014 and was more of a troll thing?

@ZiamberII   Look what you have gotten started!

At least Google takes the CMR rampage seriously if it compares it to the Baga massacre. People are still traumatized by so much merciless trolling, it's not something to be taken lightly.

If only @ZiamberII would probably explain it then just randomly mentioning it in threads thus leading to people rightfully having no clue what he is on about.

UncontinuedProcess wrote:

Neah wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

7kids wrote:

Unrelated, but what the hell is the CMR rampage? Google's only turned up the Baga massacre, but apparently this one happened in 2014 and was more of a troll thing?

@ZiamberII   Look what you have gotten started!

At least Google takes the CMR rampage seriously if it compares it to the Baga massacre. People are still traumatized by so much merciless trolling, it's not something to be taken lightly.

If only @ZiamberII would probably explain it then just randomly mentioning it in threads thus leading to people rightfully having no clue what he is on about.

True!  The only thing I have ever really gotten him to explain enough to get a half ass grasp of is the Easter egg smashing incident.  Yet I am still trying to fully figure out the cat hiding the spoons behind the sofa thing.    

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

UncontinuedProcess wrote:

Neah wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

7kids wrote:

Unrelated, but what the hell is the CMR rampage? Google's only turned up the Baga massacre, but apparently this one happened in 2014 and was more of a troll thing?

@ZiamberII   Look what you have gotten started!

At least Google takes the CMR rampage seriously if it compares it to the Baga massacre. People are still traumatized by so much merciless trolling, it's not something to be taken lightly.

If only @ZiamberII would probably explain it then just randomly mentioning it in threads thus leading to people rightfully having no clue what he is on about.

True!  The only thing I have ever really gotten him to explain enough to get a half ass grasp of is the Easter egg smashing incident.  Yet I am still trying to fully figure out the cat hiding the spoons behind the sofa thing.    

I think the CMR rampage is a mass-trolling campaign committed by ZiamberII and some of his friends on the Internet. Well, we are not supposed to know it was ZiamberII, but you cannot hide anything to the TTC!

Neah wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

UncontinuedProcess wrote:

Neah wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

7kids wrote:

Unrelated, but what the hell is the CMR rampage? Google's only turned up the Baga massacre, but apparently this one happened in 2014 and was more of a troll thing?

@ZiamberII   Look what you have gotten started!

At least Google takes the CMR rampage seriously if it compares it to the Baga massacre. People are still traumatized by so much merciless trolling, it's not something to be taken lightly.

If only @ZiamberII would probably explain it then just randomly mentioning it in threads thus leading to people rightfully having no clue what he is on about.

True!  The only thing I have ever really gotten him to explain enough to get a half ass grasp of is the Easter egg smashing incident.  Yet I am still trying to fully figure out the cat hiding the spoons behind the sofa thing.    

I think the CMR rampage is a mass-trolling campaign committed by ZiamberII and some of his friends on the Internet. Well, we are not supposed to know it was ZiamberII, but you cannot hide anything to the TTC!

*facepalm* it's an obvious troll in retrospect. Like he even gives it away by saying it was an internet troll rampage. I just assumed he meant the two perps were trolls, or killing trolls, something like that.

What really got me interested too was that little detail about those two being kids on computers thinking they were killing people. Like that's a whole new level of crazy right there, much more so than Adam Lanza himself!

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I can agree with this. I truly don't think Nik was serious in his attempts. As you said he had the means to do it right, meaning the guns. But his half-hearted efforts may have been just another unheard "cry" for help on his part. 

That was a possibility I hadn't even considered. These half-hearted attempts at killing himself could've been his way of trying to get someone to take action and help him. .

Sadly as I said before, many people stood by and watched Nik nosedive. They didn't so much as bat an eyelash UNTIL after he had killed 17 people.

I think part of this was because some people (like his brother and fellow classmates) were outright scared of him, and were ignorant as to what they could've done to help. 

There's absolutely no excuse for the school administration, security guards, or police though.

QuestionMark wrote:

There's absolutely no excuse for the school administration, security guards, or police though.

100% Agreed!

I think there would have been a series of incidents that would have triggered him to commit a shooting at another location in the future, possibly a workplace rampage.

I think he would continue to abuse his mother and end up in some branch of the military from ROTC and would end up killing lots of innocent civilians in Afghanistan instead of american kids

BlackAndWhiteKittenz wrote:

I think he would continue to abuse his mother and end up in some branch of the military from ROTC and would end up killing lots of innocent civilians in Afghanistan instead of american kids

He failed his ASVAB so unless he obtained a waiver he wouldn’t have been able to join. Even if he did join he would almost certainly fuck up constantly in boot camp and would likely receive a discharge fairly quickly. His behavior was off the wall in a setting as mundane as public school, so it’s only liable to worsen in an environment as controlled as the military (look at how “well” he handled a corrections officer he didn’t like).