How would you summarize Columbine?

I'm curious to know, how would you summarize Columbine? Like, the cause, the events that led to E&D's decision, the day's events, the investigation, the aftermath, community response, world response, etc.?

There are so many different viewpoints I'm curious to catch a glimpse into how other people view it. If you'd like to share, of course!

To summarize, I think they had everything handed to them.

Two boys From opposite sides of the country but similar backgrounds met each other when they were 13. One had a lot of friends but felt incredibly alone the other hand few friends in his new home and always felt incredibly alone the two boys realized they had a lot in common and grew up together. Around the time they were 15 or 16 they started changing for the worse and during that time there’s no one to really guide them so they relied on each other and they fed into each others anger and rage which caused a cataclysmic event a sunny April day that changed the world Both for people who survived it and people who witnessed it. For those who were teenagers at the time they were part of our generation for better or worse.

Two best friends, disgusted by the world thy found themselves in, reacted with the biggest "fuck you" they could think of.

The society has sown a wind and reaped a whirlwind.

Sad tall guy and angry short guy combine forces into putting all the hurt they've had in their lives into 1 hour of hell. Then conspiracy theories, copycat crimes etc.

Two middle-class boys who lived comfortable lives with loving parents, lacked so so much perspective that they decided that the world was terribly unfair and that they needed to slaughter 13 innocent people in order to have revenge and infamy.

Or "two boys overreacted to the fact that life is just not fair".

Pixie13 wrote:

Two middle-class boys who lived comfortable lives with loving parents, lacked so so much perspective that they decided that the world was  terribly unfair and that they needed to slaughter 13 innocent people in order to have revenge and infamy.

Or "two boys overreacted to the fact that life is just not fair".

Family doesn't change a shit when they had to spend large part of their day in abusive environment. Dylan was subjected to psychological liquidation by the society since he entered the C.H.I.P.S. program.
I don't think we should differentiate between abusive schools and abusive families.

I doubt the "good families" stuff. If they really had decent families, they would be able to talk about the abuse at school and get moved out of the school. Like Brooks Brown initially did.
They clearly weren't encouraged to care about their well-being. Sue Klebold hates picky eaters which shows that she probably doesn't give a fuck about well-being of others. She probably indoctrinated Dylan that it's bad to quit bad environments.

Also, they weren't innocents. The only innocents are those who demand that victims of psychological liquidation must receive awesome compensation and high quality help in recovery and disabled victims of psychological liquidation must receive generous disability pensions that more than compensate for lost income. All others are vile traitors.

Are you saying Kyle Velasquez was not an innocent? You are messed up.

And balls to it being an "abusive environment", there are children who suffer far more abuse at home and at school who never shoot up schools. They weren't repeatedly raped, they weren't beaten, they never worried that they weren't going to have enough to eat, they never came home to find their mom OD'd on the sofa. So the Harrises and Klebolds were not perfect parents... So what? It happens. The issue is that life is shitty and unfair, you learn it at school and you learn it as adults. If you don't like it, you try to change the world for the better. You don't plant propane bombs and shoot up a school.

Pixie13 wrote:

Are you saying Kyle Velasquez was not an innocent? You are messed up.

And balls to it being an "abusive environment", there are children who suffer far more abuse at home and at school who never shoot up schools. They weren't repeatedly raped, they weren't beaten, they never worried that they weren't going to have enough to eat, they never came home to find their mom OD'd on the sofa. So the Harrises and Klebolds were not perfect parents... So what? It happens. The issue is that life is shitty and unfair, you learn it at school and you learn it as adults. If you don't like it, you try to change the world for the better. You don't plant propane bombs and shoot up a school.

Again all of the victims were innocent not just Kyle. Kyle I’m sure was really awesome but so were  Mr. Sanders and Lauren and Danny Mauser....

Also I’m pretty sure Kyle was suspended from a school for setting someone’s hair on fire. So we are all capable of good and bad things. Obviously though he didn’t deserve what happened to him he should be living a great life along with the other 12 that were killed that day

Actually [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree with you. None of them deserved it and while I don't see E&D as innocent, I still see them as victims of themselves.

Pixie13 wrote:

Actually [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree with you. None of them deserved it and while I don't see E&D as innocent, I still see them as victims of themselves.

As do I.

They had issues that festered for a long time.

Pixie13 wrote:

Are you saying Kyle Velasquez was not an innocent? You are messed up.

Show me where he demanded that victims of psychological liquidation must receive awesome compensation and high quality help in recovery and disabled victims of psychological liquidation must receive generous disability pensions that more than compensate for lost income and I'll believe in his innocence.

Pixie13 wrote:

And balls to it being an "abusive environment", there are children who suffer far more abuse at home and at school who never shoot up schools. They weren't repeatedly raped, they weren't beaten, they never worried that they weren't going to have enough to eat, they never came home to find their mom OD'd on the sofa.

Yes. For every martyr there's a thousand of nameless suicides, forgotten, unavenged. For every suicide there's a dozen struggling in poverty due to trauma. Do you think I don't know it? I am one of the latter and I have nothing but gratitude and admiration for the martyrs who laid down their life to make the society's kill-ratio a bit less lopsided.

As for changing the world for better? It can't be done against will of the masses and the society is just inhuman and evil. It loves to punish those who were subjected to psychological liquidation and loves to punish those few who help them.

Do you know for example that most of prostitutes have PTSD and are victims of Child Sexual Abuse? 90% of them wants to quit prostitution but they can't. The treacherous hordes just love when victims of psychological liquidation are struggling in life so that they could degrade and exploit them as "losers".

I already wrote about the perfidious nature of the hordes of evil in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
Like that doctor was working hard to bring awareness of effects of childhood trauma on future health to ensure that victims will get the help they need and her research was just ignored because the privileged hordes with ACE score of 0 to 2 love when victims of psychological liquidation suffer so that they could feel like "winners".

You know, in a way, it's shocking to realise how many people didn't have crippling childhood trauma, didn't end up with mental disorder. Those of them who aren't outraged about that injustice and aren't doing everything they can to help victims, especially financially are the real enemies.

Pixie13 wrote:

So what? It happens. The issue is that life is shitty and unfair, you learn it at school and you learn it as adults. If you don't like it, you try to change the world for the better. You don't plant propane bombs and shoot up a school.

If "life is unfair, get over it" then there's nothing wrong about killing people at random. In that case it shouldn't even even be persecuted because "life is unfair, get over it". In that case there wasn't even anything controversial about shooting kids at school and planting bombs. "Life is unfair, get over it".

I'd argue that we don't need more nihilism. We need zealous hatred against the inhuman hordes that stand against help and justice for victims of psychological liquidation.

Two troubled kids found themselves so irritated with the annoyances of the world that they decided to strike back in the most tragic way possible.

Pixie13 wrote:

Actually [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree with you. None of them deserved it and while I don't see E&D as innocent, I still see them as victims of themselves.

Same here.

Quote :

Family doesn't change a shit when they had to spend large part of their day in abusive environment. Dylan was subjected to psychological liquidation by the society since he entered the C.H.I.P.S. program.

Interestingly a survivor from the library had been on the very same programme with Dylan.

I think Chad Laughlin and someone who was in the limo with Dylan during prom was in it too. She was the one who commented on how much he ate at prom.

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Pixie13 wrote:

Are you saying Kyle Velasquez was not an innocent? You are messed up.

Show me where he demanded that victims of psychological liquidation must receive awesome compensation and high quality help in recovery and disabled victims of psychological liquidation must receive generous disability pensions that more than compensate for lost income and I'll believe in his innocence.

Pixie13 wrote:

And balls to it being an "abusive environment", there are children who suffer far more abuse at home and at school who never shoot up schools. They weren't repeatedly raped, they weren't beaten, they never worried that they weren't going to have enough to eat, they never came home to find their mom OD'd on the sofa.

Yes. For every martyr there's a thousand of nameless suicides, forgotten, unavenged. For every suicide there's a dozen struggling in poverty due to trauma. Do you think I don't know it? I am one of the latter and I have nothing but gratitude and admiration for the martyrs who laid down their life to make the society's kill-ratio a bit less lopsided.

As for changing the world for better? It can't be done against will of the masses and the society is just inhuman and evil. It loves to punish those who were subjected to psychological liquidation and loves to punish those few who help them.

Do you know for example that most of prostitutes have PTSD and are victims of Child Sexual Abuse? 90% of them wants to quit prostitution but they can't. The treacherous hordes just love when victims of psychological liquidation are struggling in life so that they could degrade and exploit them as "losers".

I already wrote about the perfidious nature of the hordes of evil in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
Like that doctor was working hard to bring awareness of effects of childhood trauma on future health to ensure that victims will get the help they need and her research was just ignored because the privileged hordes with ACE score of 0 to 2 love when victims of psychological liquidation suffer so that they could feel like "winners".

You know, in a way, it's shocking to realise how many people didn't have crippling childhood trauma, didn't end up with mental disorder. Those of them who aren't outraged about that injustice and aren't doing everything they can to help victims, especially financially are the real enemies.

Pixie13 wrote:

So what? It happens. The issue is that life is shitty and unfair, you learn it at school and you learn it as adults. If you don't like it, you try to change the world for the better. You don't plant propane bombs and shoot up a school.

If "life is unfair, get over it" then there's nothing wrong about killing people at random. In that case it shouldn't even even be persecuted because "life is unfair, get over it". In that case there wasn't even anything controversial about shooting kids at school and planting bombs. "Life is unfair, get over it".

I'd argue that we don't need more nihilism. We need zealous hatred against the inhuman hordes that stand against help and justice for victims of psychological liquidation.

Demanding things of someone who was mentally disabled? Yikes.

I don't doubt they had issues in their home lives. I think that Eric had the typical military father figure who didn't accept failure or signs of weakness and a brother who lived up to his father's standards leaving him behind in the dust. I think that Dylan lived with his very aloof parents who despite what they say didn't pay as much attention to him as he needed. I think They were stuck in the past with the "golden boy Dylan" and didn't realize how he was spiraling.

Comparing pain in life is silly bc everyone's problems and issues are real to them. Everyone has something in their life they have had to work thru and to them it was hard.

Lizpuff wrote:

Demanding things of someone who was mentally disabled?  Yikes.

To be honest it would be much more probable for him to grasp the concept than for most of normies.

Lizpuff wrote:

I don't doubt they had issues in their home lives.  I think that Eric had the typical military father figure who didn't accept failure or signs of weakness and a brother who lived up to his father's standards leaving him behind in the dust.

Basically abusive family. They were also the assholes who ruined his growing up years by moving him around the country.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think that Dylan lived with his very aloof parents who despite what they say didn't pay as much attention to him as he needed.  I think They were stuck in the past with the "golden boy Dylan" and didn't realize how he was spiraling.

Judging by some little things Sue Klebold said like that she hates picky eaters, and about the confrontation with freshmen jocks after school, she just taught him to shut up and take all the shit he gets.

Like, it's not like they caused their mental illness by themselves, but basically put them in position where they couldn't quit the violent abusive environment at school and also put pressure on them long after they were broken by it.

Lizpuff wrote:

Comparing pain in life is silly bc everyone's problems and issues are real to them.  Everyone has something in their life they have had to work thru and to them it was hard.  

Nonsense. Most of people aren't abused until they lose mental health and only a minority of people have shit piled on upon them by the society until they become mentally ill/disabled.
There's enough research and statistics on it. Watch the video, read the Wikipedia article link I provided as a start.
"Everyone has their problems" doesn't hold up to scrutiny and is just a weak excuse that traitors use to deny victims the help they need and justice that the society owes them.

More:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There's distinct biological damage done to minority of people.

Most of people have it very easy in life. People don't have it hard unless they are struggling with day to day functioning and failing at it regularly. If there's no regular failure, it's very easy mode.
I'd define hard vs. easy like an arcade game. If you regularly get "killed" it's somewhat difficult. Most of people play very easy. Like going to school is moderately hard (due to disability) if you have ~50% attendance. Then being at lesson requires rolling 10 on d20.
Having 95% of attendance is when one has very easy. Only failing on 1 on D20 (critical failure).

So, most of people don't have it moderately or even slightly hard. Most of people have it very easy. And the work, school, etc. is centred around people having it very easy.

Lizpuff wrote:

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Pixie13 wrote:

Are you saying Kyle Velasquez was not an innocent? You are messed up.

Show me where he demanded that victims of psychological liquidation must receive awesome compensation and high quality help in recovery and disabled victims of psychological liquidation must receive generous disability pensions that more than compensate for lost income and I'll believe in his innocence.

Pixie13 wrote:

And balls to it being an "abusive environment", there are children who suffer far more abuse at home and at school who never shoot up schools. They weren't repeatedly raped, they weren't beaten, they never worried that they weren't going to have enough to eat, they never came home to find their mom OD'd on the sofa.

Yes. For every martyr there's a thousand of nameless suicides, forgotten, unavenged. For every suicide there's a dozen struggling in poverty due to trauma. Do you think I don't know it? I am one of the latter and I have nothing but gratitude and admiration for the martyrs who laid down their life to make the society's kill-ratio a bit less lopsided.

As for changing the world for better? It can't be done against will of the masses and the society is just inhuman and evil. It loves to punish those who were subjected to psychological liquidation and loves to punish those few who help them.

Do you know for example that most of prostitutes have PTSD and are victims of Child Sexual Abuse? 90% of them wants to quit prostitution but they can't. The treacherous hordes just love when victims of psychological liquidation are struggling in life so that they could degrade and exploit them as "losers".

I already wrote about the perfidious nature of the hordes of evil in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
Like that doctor was working hard to bring awareness of effects of childhood trauma on future health to ensure that victims will get the help they need and her research was just ignored because the privileged hordes with ACE score of 0 to 2 love when victims of psychological liquidation suffer so that they could feel like "winners".

You know, in a way, it's shocking to realise how many people didn't have crippling childhood trauma, didn't end up with mental disorder. Those of them who aren't outraged about that injustice and aren't doing everything they can to help victims, especially financially are the real enemies.

Pixie13 wrote:

So what? It happens. The issue is that life is shitty and unfair, you learn it at school and you learn it as adults. If you don't like it, you try to change the world for the better. You don't plant propane bombs and shoot up a school.

If "life is unfair, get over it" then there's nothing wrong about killing people at random. In that case it shouldn't even even be persecuted because "life is unfair, get over it". In that case there wasn't even anything controversial about shooting kids at school and planting bombs. "Life is unfair, get over it".

I'd argue that we don't need more nihilism. We need zealous hatred against the inhuman hordes that stand against help and justice for victims of psychological liquidation.

Demanding things of someone who was mentally disabled?  Yikes.

I don't doubt they had issues in their home lives.  I think that Eric had the typical military father figure who didn't accept failure or signs of weakness and a brother who lived up to his father's standards leaving him behind in the dust.  I think that Dylan lived with his very aloof parents who despite what they say didn't pay as much attention to him as he needed.  I think They were stuck in the past with the "golden boy Dylan" and didn't realize how he was spiraling.  

Comparing pain in life is silly bc everyone's problems and issues are real to them.  Everyone has something in their life they have had to work thru and to them it was hard.  

Dylan's parents strike me as part hippie part WASP. Seemingly really liberal and open minded but very concerned about appearances. It's remarkable how much they remind me of my parents and my upbringing.

I do agree Dylan was given a LOT of freedom. I never had the choice whether or not to sit down for dinner (unless I had an activity at school or something like that) but I also get the vibe that a lot of parents were kind of like Dylan's in my generation. Maybe I'm wrong?

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Demanding things of someone who was mentally disabled?  Yikes.

To be honest it would be much more probable for him to grasp the concept than for most of normies.

Lizpuff wrote:

I don't doubt they had issues in their home lives.  I think that Eric had the typical military father figure who didn't accept failure or signs of weakness and a brother who lived up to his father's standards leaving him behind in the dust.

Basically abusive family. They were also the assholes who ruined his growing up years by moving him around the country.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think that Dylan lived with his very aloof parents who despite what they say didn't pay as much attention to him as he needed.  I think They were stuck in the past with the "golden boy Dylan" and didn't realize how he was spiraling.

Judging by some little things Sue Klebold said like that she hates picky eaters, and about the confrontation with freshmen jocks after school, she just taught him to shut up and take all the shit he gets.

Like, it's not like they caused their mental illness by themselves, but basically put them in position where they couldn't quit the violent abusive environment at school and also put pressure on them long after they were broken by it.

Lizpuff wrote:

Comparing pain in life is silly bc everyone's problems and issues are real to them.  Everyone has something in their life they have had to work thru and to them it was hard.  

Nonsense. Most of people aren't abused until they lose mental health and only a minority of people have shit piled on upon them by the society until they become mentally ill/disabled.
There's enough research and statistics on it. Watch the video, read the Wikipedia article link I provided as a start.
"Everyone has their problems" doesn't hold up to scrutiny and is just a weak excuse that traitors use to deny victims the help they need and justice that the society owes them.

More:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There's distinct biological damage done to minority of people.

Most of people have it very easy in life. People don't have it hard unless they are struggling with day to day functioning and failing at it regularly. If there's no regular failure, it's very easy mode.
I'd define hard vs. easy like an arcade game. If you regularly get "killed" it's somewhat difficult. Most of people play very easy. Like going to school is moderately hard (due to disability) if you have ~50% attendance. Then being at lesson requires rolling 10 on d20.
Having 95% of attendance is when one has very easy. Only failing on 1 on D20 (critical failure).

So, most of people don't have it moderately or even slightly hard. Most of people have it very easy. And the work, school, etc. is centred around people having it very easy.

I am not here to argue minutiae. We won't agree on this and that is ok.

For me in my opinion, Eric and Dylan were stuck in their problems they perceived were going to last forever. I think that if either had remained alive they would see these issues as minor and would be able to move past them. I am sure other problems would crop up as they always do in life and would they have been able to handle those issues? Who knows. In Dylan's case I think probably not.

However stating that what they went thru in their home lives is abuse is all people's opinions. If we again "compare" lives here, compared to what I went thru their lives were just peachy. I wish their issues were the issues I faced as a child. Many others might have the same opinion. Are there people out there that have "cushy" lives? Sure I think that is very true. Again compared to what I went thru. Does that mean that they don't perceive issues in their own cushy life? No. Their issues may not be huge but again they still have problems and those problems do affect them. It is not my place nor anyone else's to judge.

We can all cry out "I HAVE THE WORST LIFE EVER" and there will always be someone that has it worse.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Pixie13 wrote:

Are you saying Kyle Velasquez was not an innocent? You are messed up.

Show me where he demanded that victims of psychological liquidation must receive awesome compensation and high quality help in recovery and disabled victims of psychological liquidation must receive generous disability pensions that more than compensate for lost income and I'll believe in his innocence.

Pixie13 wrote:

And balls to it being an "abusive environment", there are children who suffer far more abuse at home and at school who never shoot up schools. They weren't repeatedly raped, they weren't beaten, they never worried that they weren't going to have enough to eat, they never came home to find their mom OD'd on the sofa.

Yes. For every martyr there's a thousand of nameless suicides, forgotten, unavenged. For every suicide there's a dozen struggling in poverty due to trauma. Do you think I don't know it? I am one of the latter and I have nothing but gratitude and admiration for the martyrs who laid down their life to make the society's kill-ratio a bit less lopsided.

As for changing the world for better? It can't be done against will of the masses and the society is just inhuman and evil. It loves to punish those who were subjected to psychological liquidation and loves to punish those few who help them.

Do you know for example that most of prostitutes have PTSD and are victims of Child Sexual Abuse? 90% of them wants to quit prostitution but they can't. The treacherous hordes just love when victims of psychological liquidation are struggling in life so that they could degrade and exploit them as "losers".

I already wrote about the perfidious nature of the hordes of evil in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
Like that doctor was working hard to bring awareness of effects of childhood trauma on future health to ensure that victims will get the help they need and her research was just ignored because the privileged hordes with ACE score of 0 to 2 love when victims of psychological liquidation suffer so that they could feel like "winners".

You know, in a way, it's shocking to realise how many people didn't have crippling childhood trauma, didn't end up with mental disorder. Those of them who aren't outraged about that injustice and aren't doing everything they can to help victims, especially financially are the real enemies.

Pixie13 wrote:

So what? It happens. The issue is that life is shitty and unfair, you learn it at school and you learn it as adults. If you don't like it, you try to change the world for the better. You don't plant propane bombs and shoot up a school.

If "life is unfair, get over it" then there's nothing wrong about killing people at random. In that case it shouldn't even even be persecuted because "life is unfair, get over it". In that case there wasn't even anything controversial about shooting kids at school and planting bombs. "Life is unfair, get over it".

I'd argue that we don't need more nihilism. We need zealous hatred against the inhuman hordes that stand against help and justice for victims of psychological liquidation.

Demanding things of someone who was mentally disabled?  Yikes.

I don't doubt they had issues in their home lives.  I think that Eric had the typical military father figure who didn't accept failure or signs of weakness and a brother who lived up to his father's standards leaving him behind in the dust.  I think that Dylan lived with his very aloof parents who despite what they say didn't pay as much attention to him as he needed.  I think They were stuck in the past with the "golden boy Dylan" and didn't realize how he was spiraling.  

Comparing pain in life is silly bc everyone's problems and issues are real to them.  Everyone has something in their life they have had to work thru and to them it was hard.  

Dylan's parents strike me as part hippie part WASP. Seemingly really liberal and open minded but very concerned about appearances. It's remarkable how much they remind me of my parents and my upbringing.

I do agree Dylan was given a LOT of freedom. I never had the choice whether or not to sit down for dinner (unless I had an activity at school or something like that) but I also get the vibe that a lot of parents were kind of like Dylan's in my generation. Maybe I'm wrong?

I think you hit the nail on the head with Dylan's parents. I have always been interested in Sue as a person and how she deals with things. She seems very very logical in her reasonings which I think is atypical of most moms or women in general. I wonder how Dylan would have been with a more emotional thinking mother. Would he have felt better or would he have felt smothered?

Lizpuff wrote:

For me in my opinion, Eric and Dylan were stuck in their problems they perceived were going to last forever.  I think that if either had remained alive they would see these issues as minor and would be able to move past them.  I am sure other problems would crop up as they always do in life and would they have been able to handle those issues?  Who knows.  In Dylan's case I think probably not.

First and foremost, they were deprived of mental health through abuse. So they needed to receive compensation for it, high quality help in recovery and if any of them was disabled a disability pension more than fully compensating lost income.

Lizpuff wrote:

However stating that what they went thru in their home lives is abuse is all people's opinions.  If we again "compare" lives here, compared to what I went thru their lives were just peachy.  I wish their issues were the issues I faced as a child.  Many others might have the same opinion. Are there people out there that have "cushy" lives?  Sure I think that is very true.  Again compared to what I went thru.  Does that mean that they don't perceive issues in their own cushy life?  No.  Their issues may not be huge but again they still have problems and those problems do affect them.  It is not my place nor anyone else's to judge.

Mental disorders, including trauma are biological phenomena, not "opinions". They were deprived of mental health and driven to suicidal depression.

Lizpuff wrote:

We can all cry out "I HAVE THE WORST LIFE EVER" and there will always be someone that has it worse.

"Someone has it worse" isn't relevant to anything. The compensation is for damage done, not for "having the worst life".

Also, opinions and acknowledgements are worthless, only hard cash and concrete help in recovery counts as repayment of the debt that the society took upon itself by subjecting a minority of selected individuals to psychological liquidation.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Dylan's parents strike me as part hippie part WASP. Seemingly really liberal and open minded but very concerned about appearances. It's remarkable how much they remind me of my parents and my upbringing.

I wonder how much they exposed him to new age ideas. I bet Sue owned some new age books that influenced Dylan in how he perceived reality and the concept of afterlife.

Nevermind. There's no point talking about it. Most of people are just soulless zombies that hate science, hate justice and hate victims. God, how disgusting!

I just hope more shootings will come soon and treacherous hordes will bleed again.

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

For me in my opinion, Eric and Dylan were stuck in their problems they perceived were going to last forever.  I think that if either had remained alive they would see these issues as minor and would be able to move past them.  I am sure other problems would crop up as they always do in life and would they have been able to handle those issues?  Who knows.  In Dylan's case I think probably not.

First and foremost, they were deprived of mental health through abuse. So they needed to receive compensation for it, high quality help in recovery and if any of them was disabled a disability pension more than fully compensating lost income.

Lizpuff wrote:

However stating that what they went thru in their home lives is abuse is all people's opinions.  If we again "compare" lives here, compared to what I went thru their lives were just peachy.  I wish their issues were the issues I faced as a child.  Many others might have the same opinion. Are there people out there that have "cushy" lives?  Sure I think that is very true.  Again compared to what I went thru.  Does that mean that they don't perceive issues in their own cushy life?  No.  Their issues may not be huge but again they still have problems and those problems do affect them.  It is not my place nor anyone else's to judge.

Mental disorders, including trauma are biological phenomena, not "opinions". They were deprived of mental health and driven to suicidal depression.

Lizpuff wrote:

We can all cry out "I HAVE THE WORST LIFE EVER" and there will always be someone that has it worse.

"Someone has it worse" isn't relevant to anything. The compensation is for damage done, not for "having the worst life".

Also, opinions and acknowledgements are worthless, only hard cash and concrete help in recovery counts as repayment of the debt that the society took upon itself by subjecting a minority of selected individuals to psychological liquidation.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Dylan's parents strike me as part hippie part WASP. Seemingly really liberal and open minded but very concerned about appearances. It's remarkable how much they remind me of my parents and my upbringing.

I wonder how much they exposed him to new age ideas. I bet Sue owned some new age books that influenced Dylan in how he perceived reality and the concept of afterlife.

Opinions are not irrelevant here. What you are stating is all just your opinion. Your opinion is that what they went thru was abuse. Ok great I get it. I disagree. I do think that both sets of parents ignored what should have been obvious signs that their boys were having some serious issues but I don't think it even comes near to "abuse". You can go on and on and on about what you think, and it is nothing but your opinion.

How I would summarize it:
two kids who deicided to take lives as an act of revenge, rage, and emotional damage

I'd say its the event that really started it all if you think about it. Most school shootings were inspired by columbine and the shooters themselves fangirled over the 2 (The first person that comes in mind is Álvaro Castillo).


IMO, its really annoying/cringey how many people call them both heroes or idolize them when they cleary have no clue what happened that day.

I would summarize columbine as a failure (from what they wanted), the bombs didn't detonate, and they missed many oppertuities to have shot many more. They spent most of the time shouting at and Tormenting people, although maybe that is what they wanted to do as well.

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

I just hope more shootings will come soon and treacherous hordes will bleed again.

I hope you don't have easy access to firearms.

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Also, opinions and acknowledgements are worthless, only hard cash and concrete help in recovery counts as repayment of the debt that the society took upon itself by subjecting a minority of selected individuals to psychological liquidation.

I'm new here. What is this psychological liquidation that I keep seeing brought up? You seem rather passionate about it.

miketheratguy wrote:

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Also, opinions and acknowledgements are worthless, only hard cash and concrete help in recovery counts as repayment of the debt that the society took upon itself by subjecting a minority of selected individuals to psychological liquidation.

I'm new here. What is this psychological liquidation that I keep seeing brought up? You seem rather passionate about it.

It's a euphemism for bullying/abuse. 

BTW I think this user left because we don't condone mass shootings.

I just cant get over that person saying Eric and Dylan had life just so so hard. The hardest most abused children ever

QuestionMark wrote:

miketheratguy wrote:

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Also, opinions and acknowledgements are worthless, only hard cash and concrete help in recovery counts as repayment of the debt that the society took upon itself by subjecting a minority of selected individuals to psychological liquidation.

I'm new here. What is this psychological liquidation that I keep seeing brought up? You seem rather passionate about it.

It's a euphemism for bullying/abuse. 

BTW I think this user left because we don't condone mass shootings.

I just spotted that. I was curious to hear him explain his beliefs rather than just repeat the rhetoric but he seemed too angry to do so. Several of his posts screamed red flag to me.

miketheratguy wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

miketheratguy wrote:

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Also, opinions and acknowledgements are worthless, only hard cash and concrete help in recovery counts as repayment of the debt that the society took upon itself by subjecting a minority of selected individuals to psychological liquidation.

I'm new here. What is this psychological liquidation that I keep seeing brought up? You seem rather passionate about it.

It's a euphemism for bullying/abuse. 

BTW I think this user left because we don't condone mass shootings.

I just spotted that. I was curious to hear him explain his beliefs rather than just repeat the rhetoric but he seemed too angry to do so. Several of his posts screamed red flag to me.

I hope he finds some inner peace before he decides to do something rash, and I think that's all I'm gonna say.

This isn't the first time a user has come on here with a similar avi spouting they wished another shooting would occur

I wouldn't be surprised if this is someone who has been here before

Lizpuff wrote:

I just cant get over that person saying Eric and Dylan had life just so so hard.  The hardest most abused children ever

Bullying is an easy catch-all excuse. There are plenty of people who have had it harder in life than Eric and Dylan - myself included - and don't commit mass murder.

I think EoD is going to commit a massacre soon, he has waved many red flags.

miketheratguy wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I just cant get over that person saying Eric and Dylan had life just so so hard.  The hardest most abused children ever

Bullying is an easy catch-all excuse. There are plenty of people who have had it harder in life than Eric and Dylan - myself included - and don't commit mass murder.

It can be a catalyst but the only reason...


This forum is actually one of the most accepting and level headed places to discuss true crime that I’ve found.

I do think bullying has a role in most MS, however it is a combination of triggers that leads to them, and they are fortunately very rare.

Ziamber II wrote:

I think EoD is going to commit a massacre soon, he has waved many red flags.

I tried asking him to explain his philosophy because I too have been getting bad vibes from his posts. I've only been here a week but throughout all my browsing his comments are the only ones that have given me concern. I've been hesitating to say something about it for a few days now.

Yeah me too reading his stuff was particularly troubling to me.

Lizpuff wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Emanation of Darkness wrote:

Pixie13 wrote:

Are you saying Kyle Velasquez was not an innocent? You are messed up.

Show me where he demanded that victims of psychological liquidation must receive awesome compensation and high quality help in recovery and disabled victims of psychological liquidation must receive generous disability pensions that more than compensate for lost income and I'll believe in his innocence.

Pixie13 wrote:

And balls to it being an "abusive environment", there are children who suffer far more abuse at home and at school who never shoot up schools. They weren't repeatedly raped, they weren't beaten, they never worried that they weren't going to have enough to eat, they never came home to find their mom OD'd on the sofa.

Yes. For every martyr there's a thousand of nameless suicides, forgotten, unavenged. For every suicide there's a dozen struggling in poverty due to trauma. Do you think I don't know it? I am one of the latter and I have nothing but gratitude and admiration for the martyrs who laid down their life to make the society's kill-ratio a bit less lopsided.

As for changing the world for better? It can't be done against will of the masses and the society is just inhuman and evil. It loves to punish those who were subjected to psychological liquidation and loves to punish those few who help them.

Do you know for example that most of prostitutes have PTSD and are victims of Child Sexual Abuse? 90% of them wants to quit prostitution but they can't. The treacherous hordes just love when victims of psychological liquidation are struggling in life so that they could degrade and exploit them as "losers".

I already wrote about the perfidious nature of the hordes of evil in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
Like that doctor was working hard to bring awareness of effects of childhood trauma on future health to ensure that victims will get the help they need and her research was just ignored because the privileged hordes with ACE score of 0 to 2 love when victims of psychological liquidation suffer so that they could feel like "winners".

You know, in a way, it's shocking to realise how many people didn't have crippling childhood trauma, didn't end up with mental disorder. Those of them who aren't outraged about that injustice and aren't doing everything they can to help victims, especially financially are the real enemies.

Pixie13 wrote:

So what? It happens. The issue is that life is shitty and unfair, you learn it at school and you learn it as adults. If you don't like it, you try to change the world for the better. You don't plant propane bombs and shoot up a school.

If "life is unfair, get over it" then there's nothing wrong about killing people at random. In that case it shouldn't even even be persecuted because "life is unfair, get over it". In that case there wasn't even anything controversial about shooting kids at school and planting bombs. "Life is unfair, get over it".

I'd argue that we don't need more nihilism. We need zealous hatred against the inhuman hordes that stand against help and justice for victims of psychological liquidation.

Demanding things of someone who was mentally disabled?  Yikes.

I don't doubt they had issues in their home lives.  I think that Eric had the typical military father figure who didn't accept failure or signs of weakness and a brother who lived up to his father's standards leaving him behind in the dust.  I think that Dylan lived with his very aloof parents who despite what they say didn't pay as much attention to him as he needed.  I think They were stuck in the past with the "golden boy Dylan" and didn't realize how he was spiraling.  

Comparing pain in life is silly bc everyone's problems and issues are real to them.  Everyone has something in their life they have had to work thru and to them it was hard.  

Dylan's parents strike me as part hippie part WASP. Seemingly really liberal and open minded but very concerned about appearances. It's remarkable how much they remind me of my parents and my upbringing.

I do agree Dylan was given a LOT of freedom. I never had the choice whether or not to sit down for dinner (unless I had an activity at school or something like that) but I also get the vibe that a lot of parents were kind of like Dylan's in my generation. Maybe I'm wrong?

I think you hit the nail on the head with Dylan's parents.  I have always been interested in Sue as a person and how she deals with things.  She seems very very logical in her reasonings which I think is atypical of most moms or women in general.  I wonder how Dylan would have been with a more emotional thinking mother.  Would he have felt better or would he have felt smothered?

I wonder if that would have made it easier for Dylan to talk about what he was feeling and going through?

His parents even assumed that someone like Dylan wouldn't be bullied because of his height... tall kids with friends CAN get bullied. I do wonder really how "popular" Dylan was. One can have a group of people they hang out with but feel disconnected and I think after a while, except for Eric he did feel disconnected from them even though they hung out. So while Devon and Nate thought of Dylan has their best friends, Dylan had this one track mind to destruction along with Eric

Screamingophelia wrote:

I wonder if that would have made it easier for Dylan to talk about what he was feeling and going through?

His parents even assumed that someone like Dylan wouldn't be bullied because of his height... tall kids with friends CAN get bullied. I do wonder really how "popular" Dylan was. One can have a group of people they hang out with but feel disconnected and I think after a while, except for Eric he did feel disconnected from them even though they hung out. So while Devon and Nate thought of Dylan has their best friends, Dylan had this one track mind to destruction along with Eric

It makes me wonder if, had Eric and Dylan had a greater social circle, the tragedy could have been avoided. Maybe someone could have successfully talked them out of it. Maybe someone could have gotten the authorities to intervene. Maybe they just plain wouldn't have been so focused on their anger and distaste for other people, or even had the same level of anger and distaste to begin with. Instead they were virtually isolated, left to plot and plan together with very few people to distract them.

miketheratguy wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I wonder if that would have made it easier for Dylan to talk about what he was feeling and going through?

His parents even assumed that someone like Dylan wouldn't be bullied because of his height... tall kids with friends CAN get bullied. I do wonder really how "popular" Dylan was. One can have a group of people they hang out with but feel disconnected and I think after a while, except for Eric he did feel disconnected from them even though they hung out. So while Devon and Nate thought of Dylan has their best friends, Dylan had this one track mind to destruction along with Eric

It makes me wonder if, had Eric and Dylan had a greater social circle, the tragedy could have been avoided. Maybe someone could have successfully talked them out of it. Maybe someone could have gotten the authorities to intervene. Maybe they just plain wouldn't have been so focused on their anger and distaste for other people, or even had the same level of anger and distaste to begin with. Instead they were virtually isolated, left to plot and plan together with very few people to distract them.

IDK that Dylan really had it in him to socialize with too many people. While he did have a lot of friends he did seem to gravitate toward one friend at a time. Be that Nate, Zach or Eric.

I do think Eric wanted more friends....or maybe he just wanted a diff set of friends. I get the feeling that the friends he did have were not good enough for him.

Lizpuff wrote:

IDK that Dylan really had it in him to socialize with too many people.  While he did have a lot of friends he did seem to gravitate toward one friend at a time.  Be that Nate, Zach or Eric.  

I do think Eric wanted more friends....or maybe he just wanted a diff set of friends.  I get the feeling that the friends he did have were not good enough for him.  

I was painfully shy as a kid and only had a few close friends. I was liked in school and all that, I just didn't like socializing - going to big gatherings, joining people for sports, etc. As a result I had what I considered to be "school friends" - people I would talk to in class or maybe occasionally a hangout once in a blue moon. They were basically associates. Other than that there were the handful of close friends, maybe three or four people who I really enjoyed spending close time with on a regular basis. I'd go to their house or they'd come to mine (I often preferred that they come to mine). Hanging out in a group was rare as I often felt self-conscious if it wasn't one-on-one. In my teenage years I became a bit less shy but seemed to become a bit more introverted and came to prefer having just one or two close friends and not much else. I wonder if there was any of that going on with Eric and Dylan.

Having girlfriends helped. I can't imagine how lonely it must have been not to have female companionship all the way to nearly adulthood.

Thanks for sharing, to all who did. It's really interesting to see how it gets boiled down, and to see that what stands out the most is quite similar even if the details of each perspective differ.

Some of the parts of the 911 library calls were inaudible but one of the parts that was clear was Eric saying “you guys are gonna pay now” this is more confirmation bullying played a role in there decision

Lizpuff wrote:

I just cant get over that person saying Eric and Dylan had life just so so hard.  The hardest most abused children ever

Nothing that happened to E&D comes close to...hell, I could name ten bajillion people who had it worse than him. Read up on the childhoods of Sonny Liston, or maybe Valerie Solanas, or how about that dreadful Sylvia Likens story? She was put through gulag torture and then she didn't even live!

My summary of Columbine: Two immature, spoiled brats slaughter innocent children for attention.

Hence why we need to look at mental health...

While it is easy to compare certain traumas and certain things people have gone through Julie two for us after remember everyone is different. I truly believe looking at this will prove that there is mental health issues coming into playing with the shootings. Because you’re really right, why do have those who have been tortured all their life and have lived in bad conditions not do this but somebody who is depressed and bullied commit a massacre like this?

Though if you look into Brenda Spencer’s childhood she was horribly abused and she was molested. She had to share a bed with her father and her father bought her all the guns she used

Speaking of comparisons, when I was a teenager, the sound of a bag of chips crinkling sent me into a physically explosive rage. I had to leave the room when people ate chips. Other people wouldn't even notice the sound of the bag.

Same goes for experiences. They all impact us differently, even on a visceral level. Whatever they experienced - their thought processes were out of control, and they came to the conclusion that there was nothing worth living. Life is suffering for all of us, and their perceptions tilted their scale in favor of destroying life.

Suffering is always relative to the individual. It's not the external influences that cause the suffering, though. It's how it's filtered by the individual. In my case, with the chips, my nervous system filtered that as an intrusive experience akin to nails on a chalkboard combined with electric shock that induced inexplicable rage. If another kid punched me in the face or shoved me into a locker, though, I wouldn't think much of it. I didn't process physical violence as a big deal. Even if it was scary to experience being punched and shoved in the moment, it disappeared out of my system.

We are all wired to process stimuli differently via the nervous system which also activates other responses like adrenaline.

I was an angry monkey as a teenager, and full of adrenaline when someone laughed at me, yet being punched and shoved didn't give me an adrenaline rush or pull a reaction out of me...

There's a problem with comparing our problems. First, the discrepancy in what we perceive to be different levels of abuse proves that it's not outside stimuli that causes people to respond with violence. It's the inner process that filters and processes the experience and determines what it "means."

It also seeks to invalidate one person's pain and raise up another's. Like my pain is better than your pain. You don't know what pain is, etc.

I think it's pretty clear - based on results - that kids who think life isn't worth living and nobody else's life is worth anything, either, were suffering perhaps more than people who can take a good beating. The results speak for themselves. I don't refer to suffering in this sense as outer actions, I'm referring to internal suffering. Their inner suffering was far worse.

I mean, you take two people - one commits suicide, the other doesn't. The person who didn't commit suicide was (obviously) not as adversely affected by their circumstances - even if they were beaten 100x harder than the person who killed themselves.

The point is... why be so quick to invalidate people's pain when the way they chose to end their life demonstrates they were in pain on a level most can't comprehend? I mean, how nihilistic and bitter does one have to be to want to kill everyone and themselves? And then act on that desire and do it?

I think the actions prove the pain was severe.

Life is not a contest between who has the biggest black eyes. Whoever gets the most beatings gets to reign as the supreme victim.

It's about acknowledging how people are internalizing the stimuli and recognizing that one person's pain is not necessarily another's. It doesn't make anyone better than anyone else. It just means you're looking at that person's life. Not comparing it to anyone else's. Comparisons can be useful, but in this case, comparing people's pain in order to invalidate them isn't constructive.

It's like there's one faction that wants to dive into why E&D experienced so much pain if they weren't physically abused like other people have been.

The other faction wants to use that to invalidate their experiences.

And both factions come together to have a conversation.

But they're not having the same conversation. One faction's context is "let's figure out and examine their pain." The other faction's context is, "they didn't have it that rough, they couldn't have been in pain."

It's really two conversations. The first conversation is about examining their individual pain.

The second conversation is about investigating why they experienced pain to the degree that made them want to kill - despite not having been abused to the extent that others have been.

These conversations can't exist in the same space.