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 Questions on the Suicide

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PostSubject: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:05 am

Hey folks, sorry if I am sounding redundant, I'm sure this happens with most new members (asking the same questions)

The suicide really intrigues me, after some studying, Eric mentioned plans of them escaping to another country where they couldn't be caught/found or about stealing a plane and piloting it into the twin towers/new york.

So makes me think that after their plans really didn't work out how they wanted and after killing some students, reality set in and seeing all the cops they knew it was either death or life in prison.

Do you think the suicide was planned? Even as a plan B? Or was just a way out since the original plans didn't work? I've read both were even wearing the same color boxers (which could of been a coincidence) and they committed suicide next to each other.

And the way it went down, Eric didn't even say anything to dylan before shooting himself, I mean if I was in that situation I'd at least say goodbye to my friend or something along that lines before shooting. And doing it together would of probably been ideal. To me this seems like Eric was using dylan for this and since it was over, he didn't care about him anymore (and maybe never did?)

Dylan placed and lit a molotov after eric shot himself and right before his suicide, do you think there was any reason for this? Maybe he was hesitant about shooting himself, or just wanted to fuck around with causing more destruction, or maybe he wanted to set the library on fire so their dead bodies would be charred?

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:13 am

joebox97 wrote:
Hey folks, sorry if I am sounding redundant, I'm sure this happens with most new members (asking the same questions)

The suicide really intrigues me, after some studying, Eric mentioned plans of them escaping to another country where they couldn't be caught/found or about stealing a plane and piloting it into the twin towers/new york.

So makes me think that after their plans really didn't work out how they wanted and after killing some students, reality set in and seeing all the cops they knew it was either death or life in prison.

Do you think the suicide was planned? Even as a plan B? Or was just a way out since the original plans didn't work? I've read both were even wearing the same color boxers (which could of been a coincidence) and they committed suicide next to each other.

And the way it went down, Eric didn't even say anything to dylan before shooting himself, I mean if I was in that situation I'd at least say goodbye to my friend or something along that lines before shooting. And doing it together would of probably been ideal. To me this seems like Eric was using dylan for this and since it was over, he didn't care about him anymore (and maybe never did?)

Dylan placed and lit a molotov after eric shot himself and right before his suicide, do you think there was any reason for this? Maybe he was hesitant about shooting himself, or just wanted to fuck around with causing more destruction, or maybe he wanted to set the library on fire so their dead bodies would be charred?


I think Eric was assuming he would die by cops. But in the basement tapes he does mention that he knows he’s going to die. Something people don’t focus on is Eric‘s suicidal feelings. People tend to gloss over Erics depression and Dylan‘s anger.


I think the whole escaping thing was Eric’s fantasy. I am one of the people who truly believe Dylan wanted to die and he was going to die regardless. Witnesses say that someone was yelling today I’m killing myself, today is the day the world ends today is the day I die. Pretty sure that was Dylan. I think he had always been hesitant about killing himself for some reason. Which is why he didn’t do it a couple years before when he was thinking about it. I think the Molotov cocktail was maybe a ritual? I also think he was giving himself a very finite amount of time to pull the trigger. He may have been freaked out when he saw what Eric looked like. I think the whole situation was starting to hit them they were seeing that they didn’t enjoy it as much as they thought they would and it was just time to go. I find it a bit heartbreaking for lack of a better word that they killed them selves around the others that they killed. I’m not sure if I can find the words to describe how I feel or I don’t know there’s just something about it that makes me sadder.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:27 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
I think Eric was assuming he would die by cops. But in the basement tapes he does mention that he knows he’s going to die. Something people don’t focus on is Eric‘s suicidal feelings. People tend to gloss over Erics depression and Dylan‘s anger.


PREACH IT! cheers

Indeed Eric was JUST as suicidal/depressed as Dylan, and Dylan was JUST as angry as Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:33 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think Eric was assuming he would die by cops. But in the basement tapes he does mention that he knows he’s going to die. Something people don’t focus on is Eric‘s suicidal feelings. People tend to gloss over Erics depression and Dylan‘s anger.


PREACH IT! cheers

Indeed Eric was JUST as suicidal/depressed as Dylan, and Dylan was JUST as angry as Eric.

Very good insight! Eric's last journal entry or maybe it was the last footage of the basement tapes, he seems really sad to leave his family which gives evidence that he knows he's going to die that day.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:36 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
joebox97 wrote:
Hey folks, sorry if I am sounding redundant, I'm sure this happens with most new members (asking the same questions)

The suicide really intrigues me, after some studying, Eric mentioned plans of them escaping to another country where they couldn't be caught/found or about stealing a plane and piloting it into the twin towers/new york.

So makes me think that after their plans really didn't work out how they wanted and after killing some students, reality set in and seeing all the cops they knew it was either death or life in prison.

Do you think the suicide was planned? Even as a plan B? Or was just a way out since the original plans didn't work? I've read both were even wearing the same color boxers (which could of been a coincidence) and they committed suicide next to each other.

And the way it went down, Eric didn't even say anything to dylan before shooting himself, I mean if I was in that situation I'd at least say goodbye to my friend or something along that lines before shooting. And doing it together would of probably been ideal. To me this seems like Eric was using dylan for this and since it was over, he didn't care about him anymore (and maybe never did?)

Dylan placed and lit a molotov after eric shot himself and right before his suicide, do you think there was any reason for this? Maybe he was hesitant about shooting himself, or just wanted to fuck around with causing more destruction, or maybe he wanted to set the library on fire so their dead bodies would be charred?


I think Eric was assuming he would die by cops. But in the basement tapes he does mention that he knows he’s going to die. Something people don’t focus on is Eric‘s suicidal feelings. People tend to gloss  over Erics depression and Dylan‘s anger.


I think the whole escaping thing was Eric’s fantasy. I am one of the people who truly believe Dylan wanted to die and he was going to die regardless. Witnesses say that someone was yelling today I’m killing myself,  today is the day the world ends today is the day I die. Pretty sure that was Dylan. I think he had always been hesitant about killing himself for some reason. Which is why he didn’t do it a couple years before when he was thinking about it. I think the Molotov cocktail was maybe a ritual? I also think he was giving himself a very finite amount of time to pull the trigger. He may have been freaked out when he saw what Eric looked like. I think the whole situation was starting to hit them they were seeing  that they didn’t enjoy it as much as they thought they would and  it was just time to go. I find it  a bit heartbreaking for lack of a better word that they killed them selves around the others that they killed. I’m not sure if I can find the words to describe how I feel or I don’t know there’s just something about it that makes me sadder.

And yea that is very interesting to me as well. Why did they do it in the library? Because they were having a shootout with the cops? They could of done it anywhere in the school but they did it in the room where the most violence happened.

They took out that library after the massacre, which makes the cafeteria's ceiling higher and worked out. Imagine if they did it in the cafeteria or science area. Would be a little harder to renovate those areas.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:36 am

IMHO, I think both used the other just as much. Dylan used Eric to get himself a sure path to suicide, and Eric used Dylan to be able to have a partner in his killing spree.

I am sure the suicide was 100% planned but I do think both boys at one point or another second guessed the plans. Thus talking about possibly fleeing the country. And I know that most think that Dylan never actually planned on going to college or Eric going to the marines, but I do think at one point or another each thought seriously about doing those things

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:37 am

joebox97 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
joebox97 wrote:
Hey folks, sorry if I am sounding redundant, I'm sure this happens with most new members (asking the same questions)

The suicide really intrigues me, after some studying, Eric mentioned plans of them escaping to another country where they couldn't be caught/found or about stealing a plane and piloting it into the twin towers/new york.

So makes me think that after their plans really didn't work out how they wanted and after killing some students, reality set in and seeing all the cops they knew it was either death or life in prison.

Do you think the suicide was planned? Even as a plan B? Or was just a way out since the original plans didn't work? I've read both were even wearing the same color boxers (which could of been a coincidence) and they committed suicide next to each other.

And the way it went down, Eric didn't even say anything to dylan before shooting himself, I mean if I was in that situation I'd at least say goodbye to my friend or something along that lines before shooting. And doing it together would of probably been ideal. To me this seems like Eric was using dylan for this and since it was over, he didn't care about him anymore (and maybe never did?)

Dylan placed and lit a molotov after eric shot himself and right before his suicide, do you think there was any reason for this? Maybe he was hesitant about shooting himself, or just wanted to fuck around with causing more destruction, or maybe he wanted to set the library on fire so their dead bodies would be charred?


I think Eric was assuming he would die by cops. But in the basement tapes he does mention that he knows he’s going to die. Something people don’t focus on is Eric‘s suicidal feelings. People tend to gloss  over Erics depression and Dylan‘s anger.


I think the whole escaping thing was Eric’s fantasy. I am one of the people who truly believe Dylan wanted to die and he was going to die regardless. Witnesses say that someone was yelling today I’m killing myself,  today is the day the world ends today is the day I die. Pretty sure that was Dylan. I think he had always been hesitant about killing himself for some reason. Which is why he didn’t do it a couple years before when he was thinking about it. I think the Molotov cocktail was maybe a ritual? I also think he was giving himself a very finite amount of time to pull the trigger. He may have been freaked out when he saw what Eric looked like. I think the whole situation was starting to hit them they were seeing  that they didn’t enjoy it as much as they thought they would and  it was just time to go. I find it  a bit heartbreaking for lack of a better word that they killed them selves around the others that they killed. I’m not sure if I can find the words to describe how I feel or I don’t know there’s just something about it that makes me sadder.

And yea that is very interesting to me as well. Why did they do it in the library? Because they were having a shootout with the cops? They could of done it anywhere in the school but they did it in the room where the most violence happened.

They took out that library after the massacre, which makes the cafeteria's ceiling higher and worked out. Imagine if they did it in the cafeteria or science area. Would be a little harder to renovate those areas.  

I think you are right there. Some here believe they went back to the library to be back around the victims/where the most died...but not me. I think they went there purely because it was a high vantage point with a good view of the parking lot where law enforcement was gathering. I think they went back there to shoot at the cops and when Eric realized that they were not doing any damage they decided to die.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:46 am

Lizpuff wrote:
IMHO, I think both used the other just as much.  Dylan used Eric to get himself a sure path to suicide, and Eric used Dylan to be able to have a partner in his killing spree.

I am sure the suicide was 100% planned but I do think both boys at one point or another second guessed the plans. Thus talking about possibly fleeing the country.  And I know that most think that Dylan never actually planned on going to college or Eric going to the marines, but I do think at one point or another each thought seriously about doing those things


The Marines things still confuses me a bit. In Sue’s book she says that in February of 1999 Both families went to Outback to celebrate the end of Diversion. I have to look at the book again because I don’t remember If it was Kathy or Dylan that told Sue that the Marines were a no go and that Eric was going to go to community college and work. Then later in the chapter Sue says she told Kathy what Dylan was going to in the fall (college) and she felt a bit smug but then in April she of course felt foolish.

However , in April didn’t he have a meeting with the marine recruiter? It was around his birthday? So I still don’t know the whole story. Or I’m not understanding it because it’s too early in the morning right now. Or Eric and Dylan were just lying up until then and then Eric made a last ditch effort to join the Marines around his birthday?

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:49 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
IMHO, I think both used the other just as much.  Dylan used Eric to get himself a sure path to suicide, and Eric used Dylan to be able to have a partner in his killing spree.

I am sure the suicide was 100% planned but I do think both boys at one point or another second guessed the plans. Thus talking about possibly fleeing the country.  And I know that most think that Dylan never actually planned on going to college or Eric going to the marines, but I do think at one point or another each thought seriously about doing those things


The Marines things still confuses me a bit. In Sue’s book she says that in February of 1999 Both families went to Outback  to celebrate the end of Diversion. I have to look at the book again because I don’t remember If it was Kathy or Dylan that told Sue that the Marines were a no go and that Eric was going to go to community college and work. Then later in the chapter Sue says she told Kathy what Dylan was going to in the fall (college) and she felt a bit smug  but then in April she of course felt foolish.  

However , in April didn’t he have a meeting with the marine recruiter? It was around his birthday?  So I still don’t know the whole story. Or I’m not understanding it because it’s too early in the morning right now. Or Eric and Dylan were just lying up until then and then Eric made a last ditch effort  to join the Marines around his birthday?

Yes Eric had a meeting with the recruiter in April of 99. It is possible that He told people both stories of college and the marines prior to his actually going into the recruitment office.

You are right that on Dylan told Sue that Eric was not going into the Marines after diversion. Perhaps he thought at that time with his "record" he couldn't join the marines?

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:49 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
IMHO, I think both used the other just as much.  Dylan used Eric to get himself a sure path to suicide, and Eric used Dylan to be able to have a partner in his killing spree.

I am sure the suicide was 100% planned but I do think both boys at one point or another second guessed the plans. Thus talking about possibly fleeing the country.  And I know that most think that Dylan never actually planned on going to college or Eric going to the marines, but I do think at one point or another each thought seriously about doing those things


The Marines things still confuses me a bit. In Sue’s book she says that in February of 1999 Both families went to Outback  to celebrate the end of Diversion. I have to look at the book again because I don’t remember If it was Kathy or Dylan that told Sue that the Marines were a no go and that Eric was going to go to community college and work. Then later in the chapter Sue says she told Kathy what Dylan was going to in the fall (college) and she felt a bit smug  but then in April she of course felt foolish.  

However , in April didn’t he have a meeting with the marine recruiter? It was around his birthday?  So I still don’t know the whole story. Or I’m not understanding it because it’s too early in the morning right now. Or Eric and Dylan were just lying up until then and then Eric made a last ditch effort  to join the Marines around his birthday?

Yea Eric talked to a recruiter around his last birthday but I can't remember what happened, if he got denied because of the meds he was on, or he just said screw it and kept his plan for NBK
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:52 am

joebox97 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
IMHO, I think both used the other just as much.  Dylan used Eric to get himself a sure path to suicide, and Eric used Dylan to be able to have a partner in his killing spree.

I am sure the suicide was 100% planned but I do think both boys at one point or another second guessed the plans. Thus talking about possibly fleeing the country.  And I know that most think that Dylan never actually planned on going to college or Eric going to the marines, but I do think at one point or another each thought seriously about doing those things


The Marines things still confuses me a bit. In Sue’s book she says that in February of 1999 Both families went to Outback  to celebrate the end of Diversion. I have to look at the book again because I don’t remember If it was Kathy or Dylan that told Sue that the Marines were a no go and that Eric was going to go to community college and work. Then later in the chapter Sue says she told Kathy what Dylan was going to in the fall (college) and she felt a bit smug  but then in April she of course felt foolish.  

However , in April didn’t he have a meeting with the marine recruiter? It was around his birthday?  So I still don’t know the whole story. Or I’m not understanding it because it’s too early in the morning right now. Or Eric and Dylan were just lying up until then and then Eric made a last ditch effort  to join the Marines around his birthday?

Yea Eric talked to a recruiter around his last birthday but I can't remember what happened, if he got denied because of the meds he was on, or he just said screw it and kept his plan for NBK

When the recruiter came to his house his mom showed the recruiter the meds and the recruiter said he would check to see if he was still eligible. You will get diff results from diff people but according to the recruiter Eric never knew he was not accepted. Personally I think he did know. Even if he never got the actual message, I think as soon as his mom pulled out those pills he knew

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:53 am

joebox97 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
IMHO, I think both used the other just as much.  Dylan used Eric to get himself a sure path to suicide, and Eric used Dylan to be able to have a partner in his killing spree.

I am sure the suicide was 100% planned but I do think both boys at one point or another second guessed the plans. Thus talking about possibly fleeing the country.  And I know that most think that Dylan never actually planned on going to college or Eric going to the marines, but I do think at one point or another each thought seriously about doing those things


The Marines things still confuses me a bit. In Sue’s book she says that in February of 1999 Both families went to Outback  to celebrate the end of Diversion. I have to look at the book again because I don’t remember If it was Kathy or Dylan that told Sue that the Marines were a no go and that Eric was going to go to community college and work. Then later in the chapter Sue says she told Kathy what Dylan was going to in the fall (college) and she felt a bit smug  but then in April she of course felt foolish.  

However , in April didn’t he have a meeting with the marine recruiter? It was around his birthday?  So I still don’t know the whole story. Or I’m not understanding it because it’s too early in the morning right now. Or Eric and Dylan were just lying up until then and then Eric made a last ditch effort  to join the Marines around his birthday?

Yea Eric talked to a recruiter around his last birthday but I can't remember what happened, if he got denied because of the meds he was on, or he just said screw it and kept his plan for NBK

Double checked. Dylan is the one that told Sue in February that the Marines fell through and Kathy told her that she wasn’t sure what Eric was going to do.

I think the medication is the only reason he wasn’t accepted . I think If he wasn’t on medication he would’ve been recruited

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 11:55 am

Lizpuff wrote:
joebox97 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
IMHO, I think both used the other just as much.  Dylan used Eric to get himself a sure path to suicide, and Eric used Dylan to be able to have a partner in his killing spree.

I am sure the suicide was 100% planned but I do think both boys at one point or another second guessed the plans. Thus talking about possibly fleeing the country.  And I know that most think that Dylan never actually planned on going to college or Eric going to the marines, but I do think at one point or another each thought seriously about doing those things


The Marines things still confuses me a bit. In Sue’s book she says that in February of 1999 Both families went to Outback  to celebrate the end of Diversion. I have to look at the book again because I don’t remember If it was Kathy or Dylan that told Sue that the Marines were a no go and that Eric was going to go to community college and work. Then later in the chapter Sue says she told Kathy what Dylan was going to in the fall (college) and she felt a bit smug  but then in April she of course felt foolish.  

However , in April didn’t he have a meeting with the marine recruiter? It was around his birthday?  So I still don’t know the whole story. Or I’m not understanding it because it’s too early in the morning right now. Or Eric and Dylan were just lying up until then and then Eric made a last ditch effort  to join the Marines around his birthday?

Yea Eric talked to a recruiter around his last birthday but I can't remember what happened, if he got denied because of the meds he was on, or he just said screw it and kept his plan for NBK

When the recruiter came to his house his mom showed the recruiter the meds and the recruiter said he would check to see if he was still eligible.  You will get diff results from diff people but according to the recruiter Eric never knew he was not accepted.  Personally I think he did know.  Even if he never got the actual message, I think as soon as his mom pulled out those pills he knew

Kind of crazy to think if he did get accepted and he could fulfill his blood lust/suicidal tendencies through the marines
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 12:00 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I think the medication is the only reason he wasn’t accepted . I think If he wasn’t on medication he would’ve been recruited


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  I have often wondered IF Eric being accepted would have changed anything at that point?  scratch I know we have talked about it once or twice in different threads.  But Eric had said that maybe he just needed a reason to be good.  Sadly all we can do is speculate what if any changes it would have made in his life, and then in the lives of SO many more.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 12:01 pm

joebox97 wrote:
Kind of crazy to think if he did get accepted and he could fulfill his blood lust/suicidal tendencies through the marines

IF he was able to complete the training. With his anger issues that would have been hard. Not impossible but hard.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 12:20 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think the medication is the only reason he wasn’t accepted . I think If he wasn’t on medication he would’ve been recruited


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  I have often wondered IF Eric being accepted would have changed anything at that point?  scratch I know we have talked about it once or twice in different threads.  But Eric had said that maybe he just needed a reason to be good.  Sadly all we can do is speculate what if any changes it would have made in his life, and then in the lives of SO many more.

I think between both of them Eric could’ve been persuaded not to do it.

Eric had to create a whole other personality in order to let the anger out. Vodka was just a nickname Dylan’s friends gave him, he gave himself the name Reb. I know might be an unpopular opinion but I think the Marines could’ve helped.

However, the person above that mentioned the anger issues. I don’t know if he would’ve thrived in an environment that would be like the one he was already in with his dad. I think he would’ve thrived in more of a creative environment. Sometimes wonder if the military thing was just because he felt like he had to join. I do sometimes think he felt in inadequate compared to his dad and brother.

Eric is very very interesting. People that label him just as a psychopath and write him off are Not looking into him enough

I don’t know which one wrote it in their planner but someone Wrote in March 1999 death , afraid? People think that might be Dylan but I think it was Eric....

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 12:26 pm

I find both of them VERY interesting, including their friendship. They were more than what the media and unintelligent people label them as.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 12:49 pm

Eric never said he wanted to fly planes into the Twin Towers. In Eric's rant about how he was going to "kick Natural Selection up a few notches" by killing people with bombs, guns and other weapons (I'm still not sure how he came to the conclusion that murdering people equals Natural Selection), but anyway he said he wanted to set up bombs in buildings and on bridges.

He didn't say that he was going to fly a plane into a building in New York City. All he said was that if they could escape and hijack a plane, he would crash it "in NYC" with him and Vodka inside of it. He never said where he wanted to crash it.

Eric and Dylan both were depressed. If anything, Eric was more remorseful about what was going to happen than Dylan was. Not that it stopped him or anything but he did actually think about his parents and how it would affect them. He thought about friends he wanted to survive and friends he missed from his childhood. As far as I can tell, Dylan did none of those things and Dylan was the one who only cared about himself. Dylan sat on the basement tapes talking shit about his parents and his family. Eric didn't do that. He said he thought his parents did a good job even if they did make mistakes.

NBK was Dylan's idea. He's the one who dragged Eric into it because he couldn't just kill himself all the way back in 1997 like he wanted to. His entire journal is nothing but a pity party and him feeling sorry for himself. Eric's journal was full of "Dylan/V and me". Dylan's journal was full of "me/I".

Eric was the one who thought of Dylan as his best friend. Eric's the one who copied Dylan. Dylan just settled on Eric cuz Zack and Nate got girlfriends and didn't hang around with him as much anymore. Dylan was pretty much all Eric had. Any other friends Eric may have had were friends of Dylan's.

This is how I see it anyway, and I know that a lot of people don't agree with me. I mean, when it comes down to it, the only people who do know the actual truth are dead so all we can go on is what's left behind

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 1:06 pm

Jenn wrote:
Eric never said he wanted to fly planes into the Twin Towers. In Eric's rant about how he was going to "kick Natural Selection up a few notches" by killing people with bombs, guns and other weapons (I'm still not sure how he came to the conclusion that murdering people equals Natural Selection), but anyway he said he wanted to set up bombs in buildings and on bridges.

He didn't say that he was going to fly a plane into a building in New York City. All he said was that if they could escape and hijack a plane, he would crash it "in NYC" with him and Vodka inside of it. He never said where he wanted to crash it.

Eric and Dylan both were depressed. If anything, Eric was more remorseful about what was going to happen than Dylan was. Not that it stopped him or anything but he did actually think about his parents and how it would affect them. He thought about friends he wanted to survive and friends he missed from his childhood. As far as I can tell, Dylan did none of those things and Dylan was the one who only cared about himself. Dylan sat on the basement tapes talking shit about his parents and his family. Eric didn't do that. He said he thought his parents did a good job even if they did make mistakes.

NBK was Dylan's idea. He's the one who dragged Eric into it because he couldn't just kill himself all the way back in 1997 like he wanted to. His entire journal is nothing but a pity party and him feeling sorry for himself. Eric's journal was full of "Dylan/V and me". Dylan's journal was full of "me/I".

Eric was the one who thought of Dylan as his best friend. Eric's the one who copied Dylan. Dylan just settled on Eric cuz Zack and Nate got girlfriends and didn't hang around with him as much anymore. Dylan was pretty much all Eric had. Any other friends Eric may have had were friends of Dylan's.

This is how I see it anyway, and I know that a lot of people don't agree with me. I mean, when it comes down to it, the only people who do know the actual truth are dead so all we can go on is what's left behind

Yea the twin towers thing was probably just from some unresourceful conspiracy video or maybe I just brought up 9/11 for no reason.

I do find your points interesting and it may of well be true, the journals a great point, kind of curious as Dylan was rarely mentioning Eric in his writings while it was quite the opposite for eric. Like you said though we will never know.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 4:04 pm

I don't think either one of them were following the other. Eric was not the leader nor was Dylan. Eric was not a follower, nor was Dylan. I think NBK was a team effort with both of them putting in equal parts. I don't think either of them dragged the other into it though. Dylan had the idea first, as far as we know. He certainly wrote about it first. But I don't think that means he necessarily dragged Eric into it. And I don't think Eric dragged Dylan into it. Eric wanted to kill just as much as Dylan. As Lizpuff said, both used the other just as much.

I agree that Dylan was more selfish. His journal shows that.

I agree that Eric showed more remorse. We know he made the Reb tape crying and saying goodbye to family/friends and apologizing. He was worried about his family after his death. I don't recall Dylan ever having any kind of goodbye. I think it chalks up to Dylan being more suicidal than Eric imo. I'm not trying to diminish Eric's depression. Dylan talked about suicide a lot. Why he didn't commit sooner, we will never know. He was obsessed with his own death. Eric, not so much. I think, in a way, Eric was much more afraid of killing himself. That's why he planned suicide by cop. That's why he likely just sat down and blew his brains out, no goodbye to Dylan or anything. If he hesitated, there's a chance he thought he couldn't do it. In the end, Dylan seemed to be the one who chickened out by putting the gun to his temple. I think Eric was more thoughtful of his suicide because he was more scared of it in a way. And perhaps scared isn't the right word, but I can't think of a better way to express. I hope someone understands what I am trying to say and that this isn't super sloppy.

As Screaming pointed out... I believe the afraid? death thing was also Eric not Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 4:32 pm

Yeah, I think the last Molotov cocktail was a feeble attempt to burn down the library. Not necessarily so they'd be charred over everybody and thing else, though maybe that was part of it - make people have to wonder who did the crime even longer.  Their vision involved fires. I think that's why propane and other fuel was chosen. I don't think it's a lot more than thinking fire looks cool.  

Eric says if they escape by some "weird as shit luck". I don't think the escape plan was very serious. However, in the post you mention "NBK.doc", there is much that is interesting in it. He says they will wear balaclavas when they begin the massacre, and despite that not being what we are told about the massacre, Eric had one on him. It also mentions going from room to room and killing people, and of course their not doing this is one of the most talked about aspects of the massacre.

He also mentions committing suicide by swallowing crickets that release chlorine gas so other people die as a result of their corpses. Maybe this is why the police thought corpses were "booby trapped?" I never quite understood that bit. They seem to say pipe bombs were slipped under bodies and stuff for the police, and were worried that the gunmen's corpses too were booby trapped. But, uh, corpses can't light a pipe bomb, can they?

And with my theory that they still thought the bombs would go off while in the library, I've been criticized that they did not envision themselves dying by bomb blast. They only considered dying by gunshot, I guess is what they're saying. But that's just not true, and I don't think one needs more than the CCTV footage to show they were perfectly ready to die from bombs.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 4:38 pm

joebox97 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
joebox97 wrote:
Hey folks, sorry if I am sounding redundant, I'm sure this happens with most new members (asking the same questions)

The suicide really intrigues me, after some studying, Eric mentioned plans of them escaping to another country where they couldn't be caught/found or about stealing a plane and piloting it into the twin towers/new york.

So makes me think that after their plans really didn't work out how they wanted and after killing some students, reality set in and seeing all the cops they knew it was either death or life in prison.

Do you think the suicide was planned? Even as a plan B? Or was just a way out since the original plans didn't work? I've read both were even wearing the same color boxers (which could of been a coincidence) and they committed suicide next to each other.

And the way it went down, Eric didn't even say anything to dylan before shooting himself, I mean if I was in that situation I'd at least say goodbye to my friend or something along that lines before shooting. And doing it together would of probably been ideal. To me this seems like Eric was using dylan for this and since it was over, he didn't care about him anymore (and maybe never did?)

Dylan placed and lit a molotov after eric shot himself and right before his suicide, do you think there was any reason for this? Maybe he was hesitant about shooting himself, or just wanted to fuck around with causing more destruction, or maybe he wanted to set the library on fire so their dead bodies would be charred?


I think Eric was assuming he would die by cops. But in the basement tapes he does mention that he knows he’s going to die. Something people don’t focus on is Eric‘s suicidal feelings. People tend to gloss  over Erics depression and Dylan‘s anger.


I think the whole escaping thing was Eric’s fantasy. I am one of the people who truly believe Dylan wanted to die and he was going to die regardless. Witnesses say that someone was yelling today I’m killing myself,  today is the day the world ends today is the day I die. Pretty sure that was Dylan. I think he had always been hesitant about killing himself for some reason. Which is why he didn’t do it a couple years before when he was thinking about it. I think the Molotov cocktail was maybe a ritual? I also think he was giving himself a very finite amount of time to pull the trigger. He may have been freaked out when he saw what Eric looked like. I think the whole situation was starting to hit them they were seeing  that they didn’t enjoy it as much as they thought they would and  it was just time to go. I find it  a bit heartbreaking for lack of a better word that they killed them selves around the others that they killed. I’m not sure if I can find the words to describe how I feel or I don’t know there’s just something about it that makes me sadder.

And yea that is very interesting to me as well. Why did they do it in the library? Because they were having a shootout with the cops? They could of done it anywhere in the school but they did it in the room where the most violence happened.

They took out that library after the massacre, which makes the cafeteria's ceiling higher and worked out. Imagine if they did it in the cafeteria or science area. Would be a little harder to renovate those areas.  

Their car bombs were set to explode at noon, and the library was one of the few places from which to watch them.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 4:38 pm

hvernon wrote:
I don't think either one of them were following the other. Eric was not the leader nor was Dylan. Eric was not a follower, nor was Dylan. I think NBK was a team effort with both of them putting in equal parts. I don't think either of them dragged the other into it though. Dylan had the idea first, as far as we know. He certainly wrote about it first. But I don't think that means he necessarily dragged Eric into it. And I don't think Eric dragged Dylan into it. Eric wanted to kill just as much as Dylan. As Lizpuff said, both used the other just as much.

I agree that Dylan was more selfish. His journal shows that.

I agree that Eric showed more remorse. We know he made the Reb tape crying and saying goodbye to family/friends and apologizing. He was worried about his family after his death. I don't recall Dylan ever having any kind of goodbye. I think it chalks up to Dylan being more suicidal than Eric imo. I'm not trying to diminish Eric's depression. Dylan talked about suicide a lot. Why he didn't commit sooner, we will never know. He was obsessed with his own death. Eric, not so much. I think, in a way, Eric was much more afraid of killing himself. That's why he planned suicide by cop. That's why he likely just sat down and blew his brains out, no goodbye to Dylan or anything. If he hesitated, there's a chance he thought he couldn't do it. In the end, Dylan seemed to be the one who chickened out by putting the gun to his temple. I think Eric was more thoughtful of his suicide because he was more scared of it in a way. And perhaps scared isn't the right word, but I can't think of a better way to express. I hope someone understands what I am trying to say and that this isn't super sloppy.

As Screaming pointed out... I believe the afraid? death thing was also Eric not Dylan.

Some good points here. I understood what you were trying to say about Eric doing it fast before second thoughts came in which would make sense.

And Dylan did say goodbye to his mom in the basement tapes but I don't believe he was crying like Eric did in a couple scenes from those tapes.

Also the fact that Dylan was more ruthless/brutal to the victims than Eric. I am starting to believe that both of them were just in a perfect storm, I'm starting to believe one didn't drag the other in like many people claim. I know people can be manipulated and depressive minds are easier to control but killing people I see hard to convincing most people to commit along with taking their own lives.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2018 5:59 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I think the medication is the only reason he wasn’t accepted . I think If he wasn’t on medication he would’ve been recruited


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  I have often wondered IF Eric being accepted would have changed anything at that point?  scratch 

I seriously doubt it. At the time Eric was "applying" to be a Marine, the only notable conflict the United States was involved with was a paltry peacekeeping tour in Yugoslavia. Eric wanted blood, and he was not gonna get it at the time he supposedly wanted to join.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeSun Dec 02, 2018 11:45 am

hvernon wrote:
I don't think either one of them were following the other. Eric was not the leader nor was Dylan. Eric was not a follower, nor was Dylan. I think NBK was a team effort with both of them putting in equal parts. I don't think either of them dragged the other into it though. Dylan had the idea first, as far as we know. He certainly wrote about it first. But I don't think that means he necessarily dragged Eric into it. And I don't think Eric dragged Dylan into it. Eric wanted to kill just as much as Dylan. As Lizpuff said, both used the other just as much.

I agree that Dylan was more selfish. His journal shows that.

I agree that Eric showed more remorse. We know he made the Reb tape crying and saying goodbye to family/friends and apologizing. He was worried about his family after his death. I don't recall Dylan ever having any kind of goodbye. I think it chalks up to Dylan being more suicidal than Eric imo. I'm not trying to diminish Eric's depression. Dylan talked about suicide a lot. Why he didn't commit sooner, we will never know. He was obsessed with his own death. Eric, not so much. I think, in a way, Eric was much more afraid of killing himself. That's why he planned suicide by cop. That's why he likely just sat down and blew his brains out, no goodbye to Dylan or anything. If he hesitated, there's a chance he thought he couldn't do it. In the end, Dylan seemed to be the one who chickened out by putting the gun to his temple. I think Eric was more thoughtful of his suicide because he was more scared of it in a way. And perhaps scared isn't the right word, but I can't think of a better way to express. I hope someone understands what I am trying to say and that this isn't super sloppy.

As Screaming pointed out... I believe the afraid? death thing was also Eric not Dylan.

Good post! A lot of this is expressing thoughts of myself. I guess that while E&D were both depressen and self-loathing, Eric suicidal tendencies were not as big or urgent as Dylan's. Musing over their behaviour during the last weeks and days it seemed to be much more easy to cut all ties for Dylan and then just go.
And also i agree on Dylan being more selfish. Tbh, i am not sure how much of really being a friend Dylan feeled to Eric or if he was more happily going along with Eric to leave this earth with a bang. Eric on the other side was very much concerned that people should view NBK as a payback, revenge, dished out by two friends.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on the Suicide   Questions on the Suicide Icon_minitimeSun Dec 02, 2018 3:35 pm

It was definitely a team effort 100%. I personally don't believe Dylan would of killed himself if he didn't have anyone going out with him. Hence why he talked about suicide for years before the massacre, yet as far as we know never even attempted to kill himself. I also believe that columbine wouldn't of happened if either of them decided to back out. It was a team thing, or nothing.
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