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Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum
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It's a lengthy article, and personally I still don't view him as a hero. I know there is a debate about if he really was in the line of fire like he claimed to be 20 years ago today, or if he embellished some details to fit a better narrative.
Many have stated that Deangelis knew about the rampant bullying in Columbine, and looked the other way, essentially giving the jocks free reign to do whatever they pleased. I have no doubts that he was hit hard by the shooting, but I can't help but wonder if some of that guilt comes from knowing deep down he was part of the reason why it happened.
What are your thoughts on Frank Deangelis?
true_crime
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:22 pm
This was the headlining article just now on CNN.
If anything, I think he is the opposite of a hero: a coward. There are a lot of statements out there of students that year- and a few years before 1999- that severe forms of bullying were going on in that school, that the victims had went to DeAngelis, and the student was told that it wasn’t a big deal, or not to cause a fuss, or that a complaint would tarnish an athlete’s reputation and chances for college entrance, or even for the victim to ignore the situation or not walk/get around the bully.
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:24 pm
I don't view him as a hero at all. Though we all already know the story, an article honoring Dave Sanders would have been much better. That guy is a real hero.
LadyStardust
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:26 pm
I don't like him, and avoid articles in which he is quoted. He irks me by always refering to 13 victims, while discounting that Eric and Dylan were students at his school too. So before the shooting he discounted their existence, and after the shooting continues to do the same thing - perpetuating one of the very reasons the shooting took place. Hope that makes sense...
W.A.R.
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:06 pm
First time ive ever heard him be described as a hero.
bradt93
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:07 pm
Frank Deangelis is not a hero, he was the cause of all the problem at Columbine and it's dumb that he doesn't even mention Eric and Dylans as students there. I would love for millenialrebel to defend that.
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arg
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:09 pm
The fact it's cnn calling someone a hero says enough, they literally give out awards to "heroes" every year. The truth is he was a stereotypical principal of a pre columbine era He ignored bullying if it was done by jocks and favoured athletes, the way schools have always been rum and still are however to a lesser extent He did get the short end of the stick however in the fact that two of the people being bullied decided to shoot up the school and it is good he has dedicated the past 20 years to fighting gun violence and healing his community
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:24 pm
I can definitely see why there would be many many kids who still don’t feel included. I can see why the trench coat mafia started ...
I can also see why people love Mr. DeAngelis too
I think Mr. Sanders was the true hero of the day
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lol
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:42 pm
mamaStardust wrote:
I don't like him, and avoid articles in which he is quoted. He irks me by always refering to 13 victims, while discounting that Eric and Dylan were students at his school too. So before the shooting he discounted their existence, and after the shooting continues to do the same thing - perpetuating one of the very reasons the shooting took place. Hope that makes sense...
That's because Eric and Dylan WEREN'T victims. And to say that they were 15 victims that day is absolutely disgusting. Not that I'm agreeing with DeAngelis in anyway, because he as well was also a piece of work.
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:51 pm
I know this isn’t a public thing but he did say at an event “2 of my students did this, 2 of our kids did this. How did this happen?”
He may not acknowledge it publicly but I’m sure he has guilt.
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slippy123
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:38 pm
I agree with everyone statements thus far. I'm sure he has loads of guilt, and will live with that the rest of his life.
lol wrote:
mamaStardust wrote:
I don't like him, and avoid articles in which he is quoted. He irks me by always refering to 13 victims, while discounting that Eric and Dylan were students at his school too. So before the shooting he discounted their existence, and after the shooting continues to do the same thing - perpetuating one of the very reasons the shooting took place. Hope that makes sense...
That's because Eric and Dylan WEREN'T victims. And to say that they were 15 victims that day is absolutely disgusting. Not that I'm agreeing with DeAngelis in anyway, because he as well was also a piece of work.
While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I would say that Eric and Dylan technically could of been victims of the school's failed faculty. Maybe if DeAngelis did his job, and acted on the bulling issues, the boys could of possibly not been pushed over the edge, but who knows.
They were seemingly pretty normal kids until they started going to Columbine, and everything went downhill from there. Even though I can understand the frustration of what it must of been like seeing the jocks do whatever they please with no consequences, I still have no pity for the boys. What they did was cruel and heinous, and there are no excuses for what ensued.
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:53 pm
If he wasn't a coward, than he'd openly admit that to the mistakes he made and take responsibility, and couldn't seem to do that at the event, even 20 years later. Says a lot about his character.
Last edited by Westygalery on Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
bradt93
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:46 pm
I will always maintain it was a judgemental hick school. You couldn't pay me millions of dollars to attend that school if I was still going to high school.
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:56 pm
It's more of a dystopian suburbia situation to me, I could have that view because the school i went to here was private but it seems the same climate is there in all these damn schools, public or not. If by hick you mean republican christian hunting type, then you couldn't be more spot on from everything I've seen
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:07 pm
In another thread someone mentioned the Schoels felt targeted and were not embraced even after they lost their son.
Val is another person who had to practically leave town because she’s the girl that was asked if she believed in god. Not Rachel or Cassie.
There are probably so many survivors who didn’t and still don’t feel embraced.
Zach and Nate were in school that day. They were interrogated and Nate was kicked out of his home.
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bradt93
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:54 pm
Westygalery wrote:
It's more of a dystopian suburbia situation to me, I could have that view because the school i went to here was private but it seems the same climate is there in all these damn schools, public or not. If by hick you mean republican christian hunting type, then you couldn't be more spot on from everything I've seen
Yes, I noticed you're 20. I'm 30 and I graduated H.S. in 2007, of course I went to a private school. How was it when you went to high school? Was it a little better than a public school?
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bradt93
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:57 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
In another thread someone mentioned the Schoels felt targeted and were not embraced even after they lost their son.
Val is another person who had to practically leave town because she’s the girl that was asked if she believed in god. Not Rachel or Cassie.
There are probably so many survivors who didn’t and still don’t feel embraced.
Zach and Nate were in school that day. They were interrogated and Nate was kicked out of his home. l
So you think people like Evan Todd are the symptom and not the cause of that overall environment?
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:02 pm
bradt93 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
In another thread someone mentioned the Schoels felt targeted and were not embraced even after they lost their son.
Val is another person who had to practically leave town because she’s the girl that was asked if she believed in god. Not Rachel or Cassie.
There are probably so many survivors who didn’t and still don’t feel embraced.
Zach and Nate were in school that day. They were interrogated and Nate was kicked out of his home. l
So you think people like Evan Todd are the symptom and not the cause of that overall environment?
I haven’t really thought about it. I think Evan Todd was a toxic person but I don’t know much about him. I think he was a bully. I hand to ponder your question more to be honest
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slippy123
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:59 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
In another thread someone mentioned the Schoels felt targeted and were not embraced even after they lost their son.
Val is another person who had to practically leave town because she’s the girl that was asked if she believed in god. Not Rachel or Cassie.
There are probably so many survivors who didn’t and still don’t feel embraced.
Zach and Nate were in school that day. They were interrogated and Nate was kicked out of his home.
Chris Morris also stated in this interview that he was told not to come back to Columbine, and was kicked out of his house by his mother. Not to mention arrested on suspicion of being involved.
Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:45 pm
Has Mr.DeAngelis ever spoke about the decision to not let the friends like brooks, Zach, Chris and Nate graduate? Or have we heard if the Klebolds reached out to him?
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LPorter101 Top 10 Contributor
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:27 pm
bradt93 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
In another thread someone mentioned the Schoels felt targeted and were not embraced even after they lost their son.
Val is another person who had to practically leave town because she’s the girl that was asked if she believed in god. Not Rachel or Cassie.
There are probably so many survivors who didn’t and still don’t feel embraced.
Zach and Nate were in school that day. They were interrogated and Nate was kicked out of his home. l
So you think people like Evan Todd are the symptom and not the cause of that overall environment?
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:06 pm
Screamingophelia wrote:
Has Mr.DeAngelis ever spoke about the decision to not let the friends like brooks, Zach, Chris and Nate graduate? Or have we heard if the Klebolds reached out to him?
Why would he blame the friends for what Eric and Dylan did? Did he think they had a part in it?
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slippy123
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:04 am
LPorter101 wrote:
bradt93 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
In another thread someone mentioned the Schoels felt targeted and were not embraced even after they lost their son.
Val is another person who had to practically leave town because she’s the girl that was asked if she believed in god. Not Rachel or Cassie.
There are probably so many survivors who didn’t and still don’t feel embraced.
Zach and Nate were in school that day. They were interrogated and Nate was kicked out of his home. l
So you think people like Evan Todd are the symptom and not the cause of that overall environment?
As much as I can see Evan being a total douche in high-school, I still wonder if maybe there was some truth to him not bullying Eric and Dylan.
Some think it was the "playing god" aspect, others think the humanization after having conversations made it harder to kill. I still find it hard to believe that they would kill random people that never said a word to them, yet let a jock who supposedly bullied them live.
He has been quoted saying disparaging remarks about E & D and the people they associated with, but maybe didn't have the balls to say it to their faces? Either way, he is one lucky dude.
lol
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:47 am
slippy123 wrote:
LPorter101 wrote:
bradt93 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
In another thread someone mentioned the Schoels felt targeted and were not embraced even after they lost their son.
Val is another person who had to practically leave town because she’s the girl that was asked if she believed in god. Not Rachel or Cassie.
There are probably so many survivors who didn’t and still don’t feel embraced.
Zach and Nate were in school that day. They were interrogated and Nate was kicked out of his home. l
So you think people like Evan Todd are the symptom and not the cause of that overall environment?
As much as I can see Evan being a total douche in high-school, I still wonder if maybe there was some truth to him not bullying Eric and Dylan.
Some think it was the "playing god" aspect, others think the humanization after having conversations made it harder to kill. I still find it hard to believe that they would kill random people that never said a word to them, yet let a jock who supposedly bullied them live.
He has been quoted saying disparaging remarks about E & D and the people they associated with, but maybe didn't have the balls to say it to their faces? Either way, he is one lucky dude.
I highly doubt Evan bullied Eric or Dylan. I really very sincerely doubt it. For one thing Evan's comments seem as if they address to the entire group that Dylan and Eric were acquainted with, not Eric and Dylan themselves. Not to mention the fact that if Eric and Dylan saw the guy who tortured them throughout highschool they would've blown his brains out. They didn't. They didn't even seem as if they knew the guy. They saw because they saw his white hat and they targeted him. Even then, they still didn't kill them. Dylan or Eric would have mentioned:
"Evan? Evan Todd?.....Yeah...who's laughing now?" or something in those terms. They never did, and it's because they didn't even know the guy. Besides Todd was a sophomore while Eric and Dylan were seniors. I'm pretty sure Eric and Dylan saw him around and same with Todd, but they never really spoke or anything.
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:57 am
lol wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
LPorter101 wrote:
bradt93 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
In another thread someone mentioned the Schoels felt targeted and were not embraced even after they lost their son.
Val is another person who had to practically leave town because she’s the girl that was asked if she believed in god. Not Rachel or Cassie.
There are probably so many survivors who didn’t and still don’t feel embraced.
Zach and Nate were in school that day. They were interrogated and Nate was kicked out of his home. l
So you think people like Evan Todd are the symptom and not the cause of that overall environment?
As much as I can see Evan being a total douche in high-school, I still wonder if maybe there was some truth to him not bullying Eric and Dylan.
Some think it was the "playing god" aspect, others think the humanization after having conversations made it harder to kill. I still find it hard to believe that they would kill random people that never said a word to them, yet let a jock who supposedly bullied them live.
He has been quoted saying disparaging remarks about E & D and the people they associated with, but maybe didn't have the balls to say it to their faces? Either way, he is one lucky dude.
I highly doubt Evan bullied Eric or Dylan. I really very sincerely doubt it. For one thing Evan's comments seem as if they address to the entire group that Dylan and Eric were acquainted with, not Eric and Dylan themselves. Not to mention the fact that if Eric and Dylan saw the guy who tortured them throughout highschool they would've blown his brains out. They didn't. They didn't even seem as if they knew the guy. They saw because they saw his white hat and they targeted him. Even then, they still didn't kill them. Dylan or Eric would have mentioned:
"Evan? Evan Todd?.....Yeah...who's laughing now?" or something in those terms. They never did, and it's because they didn't even know the guy. Besides Todd was a sophomore while Eric and Dylan were seniors. I'm pretty sure Eric and Dylan saw him around and same with Todd, but they never really spoke or anything.
I thought Dylan said something along the lines of "You used to call me a fag, who's the fag now?" while taunting Evan.
thelmar
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:41 am
SavageGlocker wrote:
I thought Dylan said something along the lines of "You used to call me a fag, who's the fag now?" while taunting Evan.
This quote has been floating around a long time but this isn't what happened in the library. In Todd's testimony (161-179): Dylan saw him and said, "What do we have here?" Eric asked what and Dylan replied. "just some fat fuck." Dylan asked Evan if he was a jock and Todd said no. Dylan said that was good because they didn't like jocks. This conversation was confirmed by others in the library and wouldn't have happened if Dylan knew who Todd was. If Evan had bullied either Eric or Dylan, Dylan would have known him.
Dylan went on to say "Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you," to which Todd replied, "I don't want to get in trouble." Dylan said, "Trouble? You don't even know what fucking trouble is." This scared Todd so he said, "That's not what I meant. I mean, I don't have a problem with you guys, I never will and I never did." There are other library witnesses who recalled this part of the conversation, as well. There is absolutely no one, including Todd (who has since embellished his interactions with Eric and Dylan) that heard either Harris or Klebold say, "You used to call me a fag. Who's a fag now?!"
My only guess is that because Evan Todd admitted in the Time magazine article that people like Eric and Dylan were bullied, over the years this got transformed into Todd actually being one of their bullies. The interaction in the library suggests neither Dylan or Eric knew who he was. Since both had long memories for past hurts, this suggests to me that he never bothered them.
katherinex
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:12 am
He's not a hero! He ignored the bullying faced by students who didn't fit into his ideals of perfect students i.e. the jocks who won the school athletic trophies etc.
The only teachers that day who are hero's were the ones like Dave Sanders who tried his best to get as many students out of there as possible! Dave ultimately paid with his life, but many more could have died if he hadn't been there.
lol
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:03 pm
thelmar wrote:
SavageGlocker wrote:
I thought Dylan said something along the lines of "You used to call me a fag, who's the fag now?" while taunting Evan.
This quote has been floating around a long time but this isn't what happened in the library. In Todd's testimony (161-179): Dylan saw him and said, "What do we have here?" Eric asked what and Dylan replied. "just some fat fuck." Dylan asked Evan if he was a jock and Todd said no. Dylan said that was good because they didn't like jocks. This conversation was confirmed by others in the library and wouldn't have happened if Dylan knew who Todd was. If Evan had bullied either Eric or Dylan, Dylan would have known him.
Dylan went on to say "Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you," to which Todd replied, "I don't want to get in trouble." Dylan said, "Trouble? You don't even know what fucking trouble is." This scared Todd so he said, "That's not what I meant. I mean, I don't have a problem with you guys, I never will and I never did." There are other library witnesses who recalled this part of the conversation, as well. There is absolutely no one, including Todd (who has since embellished his interactions with Eric and Dylan) that heard either Harris or Klebold say, "You used to call me a fag. Who's a fag now?!"
My only guess is that because Evan Todd admitted in the Time magazine article that people like Eric and Dylan were bullied, over the years this got transformed into Todd actually being one of their bullies. The interaction in the library suggests neither Dylan or Eric knew who he was. Since both had long memories for past hurts, this suggests to me that he never bothered them.
Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. Dylan nor Eric knew Evan Todd. The fact that Dylan even had to ask Todd if he was a jock confirms that they had no idea who Todd was.
bradt93
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:07 pm
All I want is Frank Deangelis is to say I'm sorry and admit I should've payed attention
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slippy123
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:58 pm
bradt93 wrote:
All I want is Frank Deangelis is to say I'm sorry and admit I should've payed attention
Facts. People seem to not realize that admitting where you went wrong would get you more respect then making up stories and trying to play the victim. If it hasn't happened yet, I doubt it ever will.
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Subject: Re: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero"
Subject: New CNN article touts Frank Deangelis as a "hero" 
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:40 pm
and admit I should've payed attention