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 Eric and Dylan's final moments

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bradt93
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Eric and Dylan's final moments Empty
PostSubject: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 7:57 am

Many rumours linger that before they commited suicide, they said "1,2,3"

As far as we know, Dylan's blood stain on Eric's left leg suggests that Eric was the first one to die.

Eric seemed to not be hesitant to shoot him self, but Dylan may have been, as he died after Eric.

In the suicide photo, Eric's head is basically blown off. Eric's death was most likely instantaneous and he wouldn't have felt anything. Dylan, on the other hand, shot himself in the side of the head I believe. Do you think Dylan felt one or two seconds of intense pain?



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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 8:30 am

the 123 thing is a myth and it was debunked.

I have heard many theories about Dylan after he shot himself. What seems to make sense to me is that he was completely unconscious after he shot himself but his body was going thru autonomous motions such as coughing in response to the blood he was inhaling. I do not think he felt much if anything.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 8:37 am

Lizpuff wrote:
the 123 thing is a myth and it was debunked.

I have heard many theories about Dylan after he shot himself.  What seems to make sense to me is that he was completely unconscious after he shot himself but his body was going thru autonomous motions such as coughing in response to the blood he was inhaling.  I do not think he felt much if anything.

Thanks for clearing that up - I feel slightly better about their deaths knowing that they didn't feel anything
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 8:51 am

a broken human wrote:
Many rumours linger that before they commited suicide, they said "1,2,3"

As far as we know, Dylan's blood stain on Eric's left leg suggests that Eric was the first one to die.

Eric seemed to not be hesitant to shoot him self, but Dylan may have been, as he died after Eric.

In the suicide photo, Eric's head is basically blown off. Eric's death was most likely instantaneous and he wouldn't have felt anything. Dylan, on the other hand, shot himself in the side of the head I believe. Do you think Dylan felt one or two seconds of intense pain?




As [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said, the 1-2-3 was debunked. From Patti Nielson's statement pg. 98 (bold is mine, for emphasis)
Kate Batten subsequently requested IO recontact Patti Nielson and interview her regarding a statement appearing in an August 22, 1999 Rocky Mountain News article. In brief, the statement reads, "Art teacher Patti Nielson, hiding in a cabinet, heard voices in unison count, 'one! two! three!' then she heard a loud boom."
Patti's reply to Batten:
Patti Nielson she was aware of the fact she had been quoted in the Rocky Mountain News article as documented above.   When asked if that was an accurate account of the incident occurring on 04/20/99, Patti Nielson responded in the negative.   Patti Nielson told IO she at no time has ever spoken with either Lynn Bartells or Carla Crowder (News staff writers responsible for the article).   Patti Nielson went on to state to her knowledge she has never been interviewed by a Rocky Mountain News writer.  Patti Nielson explained she did recall giving an interview to the Denver Post approximately 2 1/2 to 3 months ago but again denied making the statement which was quoted in the Rocky Mountain News article.

Patti Nielson told IO she was unclear as to who the source for that quote was but speculated someone she had possibly spoken with relayed that information to the Rocky Mountain News writers. When asked for further clarification on that point, Patti Nielson stated over the course of time she has had numerous conversations with friends, students and associates where she has speculated on how Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold died.   Patti Nielson stated she could have envisioned a "scenario" where the two suspects did something like a countdown and then shot themselves simultaneously.   Patti Nielson quickly pointed out what she described was pure speculation and she
made no observations concerning that point.


So, she was basically talking with friends or family, speculating as to what could have happened, and someone ran to the press and said they counted 1-2-3. The press then ran with that without fact checking with Patti first and so yet another annoying Columbine myth was launched.

I agree, too, with Lizpuff that the damage to his head was significant enough that after the shot Dylan was rendered instantly unaware of anything and felt no pain.
Also, a lot of people seem to think that Dylan hesitated and I just don't see any evidence for that.
I think people speculate this because Eric's brain matter was found under the residue from a Molotov cocktail that was set on a table beside where their bodies were found.
I may be wrong on this point, but it's my understanding that the Molotov didn't explode, it just burned. I think you actually have to throw them, get them to break, before they explode. I'd have to dig through the evidence stuff to find this.
So either boy could have lit it, they killed themselves, and then stuff (whatever residue comes from a burning Molotov consists of) dripped onto the table on top of Eric's brain matter.  I agree that Eric went first based on Dylan's blood on his knee, but I don't see evidence that suggests it was by anything more than a matter of moments.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 9:18 am

Found it!
pg. 8938
It is reasonable for the fuse device to apply enough heat to the exterior of the container and cause it to fracture in that location. This condition is consistent with the fuel pattern and lack of heavy fire
damage observed on the top of the table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Threaded pieces of the top of the glass bottle used to contain the fuel were found on the tabletop Toe threaded pieces of glass were heavily charred indicating a pro-longed exposure to fire. The fuel pattern on the table was consistent with the determined bottle location. near the south edge. The glass and fuel directional patterns were inconsistent with a high-pressure content release, and no evidence that the bottle was thrown against
the table was found.


Table 15 was Pat Ireland's table, right next to where Harris and Klebold were found.
To me, this sounds like the Molotov was lit and burned for a long time before it's contents ended up on top of Eric's brain matter. I'm only speculating, of course, but in my view I think either Dylan or Eric could have lit it and it doesn't support hesitation on Dylan's part.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 9:26 am

I don’t recall Patrick saying if he remembers hearing the gunshots, just Dylan coughing

So he may have seen them as he was trying to get to the window Sad

I don’t think Lisa would have seen them while being wheeled out and I think Patti and the others weren’t close.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 5:27 pm

are there any photos of them in their original death positions?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 5:36 pm

None released.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeTue May 14, 2019 10:23 pm

I doubt they will ever get released.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeWed May 15, 2019 9:49 am

The whole thing is tragic, I know if I've seen dead bodies in the library, I probably would go insane and be in therapy for the rest of my life. All of them were just starting their lives including Eric and Dylan if they would've got help. Crying or Very sad

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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeSun May 19, 2019 1:42 pm

bradt93 wrote:
The whole thing is tragic, I know if I've seen dead bodies in the library, I probably would go insane and be in therapy for the rest of my life. All of them were just starting their lives including Eric and Dylan if they would've got help. Crying or Very sad
Screw both Eric and Dylan. No one forced them to do this. They chose to do this, so in the end they chose to commit mass murder. They chose to ruin everyone's lives. They chose to kill themselves. They were not victims. Fuck them. The actual victims had no idea they were going to die. They did not choose to die. Eric and Dylan woke up on that day knowing they were going to die.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2019 3:44 am

Eric went first. No doubt. Look at placement. There’s no way he felt anything. His death was so instant that I can’t even emphasize the instant with words.

Dylan is a different situation? Did he die instantly? Or did he live for a few seconds/minutes?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2019 8:57 am

FreeJust wrote:
Eric went first. No doubt. Look at placement. There’s no way he felt anything. His death was so instant that I can’t even emphasize the instant with words.

Dylan is a different situation? Did he die instantly? Or did he live for a few seconds/minutes?


Dylan was more than likely brain dead but he did asphyxiate on his blood. Patrick heard him coughing

He and Lisa were in the library during the suicides but they more than likely saw nothing.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2019 9:15 am

My gut feeling is that he felt a second or two of extreme pain and then lapsed into unconsciousness.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric and Dylan's final moments   Eric and Dylan's final moments Icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2019 11:12 am

Denver Post is the one that started the rumor. They stated that Patty Neilson heard them say 1, 2, 3 then shoot but when she was questioned about it by the police, she advised that she never even spoke to the Denver Post.
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