Tearing down Columbine

I would say from what they’re trying to do now, I don’t think it would help. The amount of media coverage every time there’s a shooting at lColumbine would be something that can cause this contagion too.

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The ironic thing is, is that this would give Harris and Klebold exactly what they wanted, a posthumous grant in a sense. They wanted Columbine to be destroyed, and the passing of this proposition grants them another of their fantasies.

Subdomine wrote:

The ironic thing is, is that this would give Harris and Klebold exactly what they wanted, a posthumous grant in a sense. They wanted Columbine to be destroyed, and the passing of this proposition grants them another of their fantasies.

Agreed, tearing down the school gives Eric and Dylan what they always wanted. It's a no from me on this idea.

That is absolutely correct. It’s always what they wanted, columbine to be destroyed. I think we are a little late in the game for demolishing it. That should have been done after the investigation was done. How about every time there is a school shooting we stop comparing it to columbine? Columbine doesn’t hold a torch anymore to the shootings that have taken place since then.
On the other side of it, I wouldn’t want strangers entering my kids school all the time just to take a peek. Would those same people show up to any school and do that? No. It’s creepy. The library isn’t even there anymore. I would’ve figured people would make a pilgrimage to rampart range before trying to enter a fully functioning school.

I agree with everyone that this isn't the answer.

I completely get the sentiment behind it but I think that they are overestimating the appeal of the physical school building. People who travel to the area will still go to see the memorials, where E & D lived, places they frequented. The parking lot and the school grounds will be the same. For those who want to see that stuff, not having the school there isn't likely to make much of a difference.

Today's school shooters are not gaining inspiration from the building itself. If Columbine is influencing them at all it is Eric and Dylan themselves, or the horrible things they did, it's not where they did them.

I think the only reasonable rationale for destroying the school would be if it was too painful a reminder for the community members to look at it. But after 20 yrs, is that even an issue?

Since I think it's more likely than not that someone's going to try shooting the school up again, I think it'd be a better idea to tear the school down now before it happens.

SenSpiritedAway wrote:

That is absolutely correct. It’s always what they wanted, columbine to be destroyed. I think we are a little late in the game for demolishing it. That should have been done after the investigation was done. How about every time there is a school shooting we stop comparing it to columbine? Columbine doesn’t hold a torch anymore to the shootings that have taken place since then.
On the other side of it, I wouldn’t want strangers entering my kids school all the time just to take a peek. Would those same people show up to any school and do that? No. It’s creepy. The library isn’t even there anymore. I would’ve figured people would make a pilgrimage to rampart range before trying to enter a fully functioning school.

I agree that it is, also, an odd time to destroy the school. It's been 20 years now. This is when they want to destroy it? The appropriate time would have been after the investigations were conducted. That's what happened with Sandy Hook. The school was demolished and rebuild from the ground up. It's just sort of odd to want to destroy the school an entire 20 years later.

I don't think destroying the school would do any good for the death tourists anyways. I agree that it's rude for these people to be creeping around the school. Children still attend there. No one wants random strangers trying to get inside just because a school shooting happened there. But, other "landmarks" still exist to bring people to Littleton. Both of the boy's homes, the gas station that they went to right before the shooting, Rampart Range, the memorial, etc.

I understand the reasons behind wanting to tear down the school, but I think it is the wrong choice.

So I'm against it. Mr. D is surprisingly for it and so are a fewteachers who were former students and teach there now. There's a huge FB debate going on Mr. Ds post with past and present students and teachers and parents... I'll keep everyone updated.

Given it's historical context I would say no, but I know it was a place for bullying city. So I don't know.

Here's the email I got since I'm in Jeffco Country, if anybody's interested.
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rocdk wrote:

Here's the email I got since I'm in Jeffco Country, if anybody's interested.
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I don't get why they're asking all of JeffCo (other than taxes but JeffCo residents prove time and again that they refuse to pay the most minor taxes to support basic education aspects) They should really only be asking the Columbine community IMO.

There’s a heated debate in a group I’m in as well. But somebody commented that it should be torn down because the old library is still sealed off. I thought it was completely torn down to make the atrium? So it doesn’t even exist it’s not just sealed off?

I know that’s not completely the point, I just wanted to see if I am misremembering?

And I want to reiterate you’re absolutely letting Eric and Dylan win if you tear it down. That’s what they wanted. You’re just giving it to them 20 years later. I wanted to say that in the thread that’s going on but I don’t know how people feel about me mentioning their names. Some people still want to do no notoriety for the case. I think the cats out of the bag with this one. Just like people that want no notoriety for like Ted Bundy. Everyone already knows what Ted Bundy is

QuestionMark wrote:

Since I think it's more likely than not that someone's going to try shooting the school up again, I think it'd be a better idea to tear the school down now before it happens.

The chances of Columbine being shot up twice are just the same as lightening striking twice. It's possible but also seems extremely unlikely at the same time. Columbine copycats have always prefer attacking their own local schools rather than going all the way to Colorado (Sol Pais might be an exception) to attack Columbine. I think tearing down the school at this point is just more adding to the postmortem victory of Eric & Dylan, they only killed barely a fraction of what they hope to but they still ended up becoming household names and inspired countless other shootings and mass murders.

They probably don't care much for Eric and Dylan or their intentions from two decades ago. They're dealing with everyday life.

But I'm not that sure this is about repelling creepy strangers from randomly showing up in the hallways. Money is involved. A lot of it.

I want to know what the alumni think. I know millennial waiting. I’m going to ask my friend who is in a alumni and survivor what she thinks.

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It will stop people from going in Garking and trying to get in. I never knew how many times it happened. Or if this happened because of Sol Pais?

However, it’s not gonna stop the contagion of the shooting itself. You’re going to have disturbed people who use it as a blueprint or idolize them. It’s sad but it’s going to happen with all the information out there. Tearing down Columbine won’t stop school shootings.

I know that’s not the main point but I’ve heard that brought up a couple times. About the people that idolize them and want to see where it happened and stuff. That’s going to happen school or no school.

Agreed. School or no school people will show up. They have a memorial located right next to the school for crying out loud! Maybe I’m wrong in saying this, but the memorial isn’t for just local residents. Should only military veterans be able to visit Arlington Cemetery? No. It’s for everyone to visit and reflect at. The memorial being there is going to attract people and yes, there are people who go too far by trying to enter the school, but how many do this? Have they released numbers? I know another thread spoke of how no one else has “the right” to be “involved” in Columbine, but I find that ignorant. Some events that happen in this world effect more than just the local community; Columbine is one of them. People visit there for many reasons (irregardless if they knew anyone personally). It touched people on a personal level. If I was a community member, I’d want to know how many visitors are actual “Columbiners” and the % that goes on to being a mass shooters before I handed over my tax dollars to tear down a school that should’ve been removed 20 years ago.

After the shooting there were many talks about what to do with the school.
I've heard that the idea of tearing down and rebuilding was on the table, but it would of cost the county millions of dollars of which they didn't have.

I also remember reading that the community overwhelmingly decided that tearing down the school would give Eric and Dylan exactly what they wanted, so they stood strong and decided to remodel instead.

I've always wondered what it must of been like to go back to a school where 13 students died a few months prior.
It has to be hella eerie, especially at night when there are only a few students or faculty roaming around.

I don't think I'd be able to get the thought of what happened there out of my head, at least for awhile.

This has been done many times in the past and it never changed a thing!


"Out of sight, Out of mind" has never worked because the deed has already been done.

It doesn't matter whether a building/house is torn down to try to "erase" the event.


Any "act" once done has already solidified its place in time/history regardless of any actions taken after the event.

I really do not see the point in knocking it down and rebuilding it, it achieves nothing. It would still be the same site - if the argument were to stand true about another attack. So there is nothing to gain, only money to lose which surely could be spent more wisely.

I am with anyone else who said it would be a posthumous victory for Eric and Dylan.

patogen wrote:

They probably don't care much for Eric and Dylan or their intentions from two decades ago. They're dealing with everyday life.

But I'm not that sure this is about repelling creepy strangers from randomly showing up in the hallways. Money is involved. A lot of it.  

Yep. Building a new high school from scratch ain't cheap. And someone's gonna get that contract.

Are the Hoffschneiders are still in the construction racket? If so, they should put in a bid. That would be the ultimate irony - the (school)house that Rocky built.

Screamingophelia wrote:

There’s a heated debate in a group I’m in  as well. But somebody commented that it should be torn down because the old library is still sealed off. I thought it was completely torn down to make the atrium? So it doesn’t even exist it’s not just sealed off?

I know that’s not completely the point, I just wanted to see if I am misremembering?

You're right, the old library is completely gone now.
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I think they should rebuild the school. The building represents too much to some people out there. It IS different from other buildings where school shootings occurred because the Columbine shooting IS different from other shootings. It is the most famous, landmark case. As others pointed out, it is the case referred to when other shootings happen. It is the school that draws tourists to it, and gets many threats.

Would you want to be the parent of a kid at that school? Or even a kid at that school, with weirdos making threats and tourists gawking at your school and just knowing what happened there? It’s become a shrine to what happened and it’s too much of a draw. It’s an attractive nuisance.

Eric and Dylan win either way. It’s a shrine to what they did or it’s destroyed as they wanted. But which choice is safer to the students?

I guess I don't see how tearing down a building will help prevent other school shootings from happening.? I think the type of media coverage it gets is far more damaging than the building it happened in.

this brings me back to the time when movies were blamed for tragedies... Huh, looks like we still live in those times nowadays

If you demolish Columbine, then you would have to demolish Marjory STONEMAN as well, because more people died there. I know Sandy Hook was demolished and so was the Gymnasium at Dunblane and also Port Arthur Cafe has all the doors and windows and the roof removed, leaving it just a shell.

They can turn Columbine into some condos or a new apartment complex. Something like that.

Columbine20 wrote:

If you demolish Columbine, then you would have to demolish Marjory STONEMAN as well, because more people died there. I know Sandy Hook was demolished and so was the Gymnasium at Dunblane and also Port Arthur Cafe has all the doors and windows and the roof removed, leaving it just a shell.

Just from the way I interpret the article and email, it seems as though Columbine is being question for destruction due to copycats. Stoneman hasn't had any copycats... yet. Sandy Hook tore the school down right after the investigation which makes sense. I feel like that would have been the most appropriate time to tear down Columbine. Of course, that would never have prevented any copycats. Tearing it down a while 20 years later just seems weird.

Have former students and teachers weighed in?

I know [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said Mr. D is for it. I have not asked my other friend yet what she thinks...

I feel like from the current students they see it as a regular school. Some have a ton of rebel pride others are like "it's school..." They talk about the shooting but I get the sense that the weight is gone. I would also like to know how many people are actually trying to get into the school because of the shooting or loitering, are they questioned? Are talking about people wandering around the park and getting too close? We know of the high profile incidents (sol pais) but other than that, copycats and shootings have been going on since shortly after.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I feel like from the current students they see it as a regular school. Some have a ton of rebel pride others are like "it's school..." They talk about the shooting but I get the sense that the weight is gone. I would also like to know how many people are actually trying to get into the school because of the shooting or loitering, are they questioned? Are talking about people wandering around the park and getting too close? We know of the high profile incidents (sol pais) but other than that, copycats and shootings have been going on since shortly after.

I have a feeling that the whole Sol Pais incident is what sparked this conversation. There was a bit of a scare going on there for the community. I, personally, feel like she really did just go to Colorado to commit suicide. I know for a while it was up in the air. I don't think she had any intention of carrying out a real copycat event.

hvernon wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I feel like from the current students they see it as a regular school. Some have a ton of rebel pride others are like "it's school..." They talk about the shooting but I get the sense that the weight is gone. I would also like to know how many people are actually trying to get into the school because of the shooting or loitering, are they questioned? Are talking about people wandering around the park and getting too close? We know of the high profile incidents (sol pais) but other than that, copycats and shootings have been going on since shortly after.

I have a feeling that the whole Sol Pais incident is what sparked this conversation. There was a bit of a scare going on there for the community. I, personally, feel like she really did just go to Colorado to commit suicide. I know for a while it was up in the air. I don't think she had any intention of carrying out a real copycat event.

Quite right [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I also speculate Sol Pais wanted to make her way there for her suicide. There seemed like lack of planning on her part for a mass shooting. I do wonder if this sparked the debate on the demolishing of columbine. As I recall back in 99 everyone wanted to keep the school to show strength and determination against “evil”.

bradt93 wrote:

They can turn Columbine into some condos or a new apartment complex. Something like that.

That would just attract more negative attention.

A good article with perspectives from former students, Will Beck (who was eating lunch outside the cafeteria) and Josh Lapp (who was in the library).
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Beck said:
Will Beck, 36, a Columbine survivor who now works as a financial adviser in Utah, said he recently took his three young children to the school to walk them through the bathroom he sought shelter in during the shooting. He pointed out the exact location where a teacher saved his life. And he showed them the fence he climbed to finally escape the violence.
"I was heartbroken over the thought of losing it," Beck told NPR. "The school, to me, is a very special place."
Revisiting the school shortly after the shooting, and even now with his children, helps him conquer the trauma.
"We can't let the shooters rule our lives," Beck said. He said he has been discussing the proposal with others in the tight-knit community of Columbine survivors.

and

Beck, the Columbine survivor, said he hopes school officials decide to keep the 1970s-era building. News of mass shootings, he said, routinely remind him of the near-death experience he and his classmates had endured. When he first learned the site might be torn down, it packed yet another emotional punch.
"There's retraumatizing stuff for us all the time," Beck said. "But this was way closer to home."

Lapp said:
"It's not right," Josh Lapp, 36, who works in the construction industry and is another survivor, told NPR. "This community has had to deal with enough of a burden, to ask them to pay for this new construction isn't fair, just because of what the shooters did."

thelmar wrote:

A good article with perspectives from former students, Will Beck (who was eating lunch outside the cafeteria) and Josh Lapp (who was in the library).
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Beck said:
Will Beck, 36, a Columbine survivor who now works as a financial adviser in Utah, said he recently took his three young children to the school to walk them through the bathroom he sought shelter in during the shooting. He pointed out the exact location where a teacher saved his life. And he showed them the fence he climbed to finally escape the violence.
"I was heartbroken over the thought of losing it," Beck told NPR. "The school, to me, is a very special place."
Revisiting the school shortly after the shooting, and even now with his children, helps him conquer the trauma.
"We can't let the shooters rule our lives," Beck said. He said he has been discussing the proposal with others in the tight-knit community of Columbine survivors.

and

Beck, the Columbine survivor, said he hopes school officials decide to keep the 1970s-era building. News of mass shootings, he said, routinely remind him of the near-death experience he and his classmates had endured. When he first learned the site might be torn down, it packed yet another emotional punch.
"There's retraumatizing stuff for us all the time," Beck said. "But this was way closer to home."

Lapp said:
"It's not right," Josh Lapp, 36, who works in the construction industry and is another survivor, told NPR. "This community has had to deal with enough of a burden, to ask them to pay for this new construction isn't fair, just because of what the shooters did."

This is a great article. I was wondering how survivors and victim families weighed in on this topic. I hope more speak out regardless if it’s for or against. It will be some great insight. Thank you for sharing.

There has to be problems going on that we never hear about in the media. Not only Sol Pais but more crazy people.

It won't prevent future shootings but I would tear it down to prevent the crazy people invading.

Remember that one kid on here recording himself sneaking in as a student? That was kinda crazy.

Screamingophelia wrote:

I want to know what the alumni think. I know millennial waiting. I’m going to ask my friend who is in a alumni and survivor what she thinks.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What are your thoughts?

It will stop people from going in Garking and trying to get in. I never knew how many times it happened. Or if this happened because of Sol Pais?

However, it’s not gonna stop the contagion of the shooting itself. You’re going to have disturbed people who use it as a blueprint or idolize them. It’s sad but it’s going to happen with all the information out there. Tearing down Columbine won’t stop school shootings.

I know that’s not the main point but I’ve heard that brought up a couple times. About the people that idolize them and want to see where it happened and stuff. That’s going to happen school or no school.

I'm hearing from a lot of people that there's a lot of structural issues wrong with the building: seeping sewage, parts of the building slowly crumbling because it's on a hill, etc. If this was ANY other school, obviously it would need to be torn down and rebuilt. But because it IS Columbine, there's that sentimental attachment, in addition to the whole "Eric and Dylan will have won" thing. I'm mixed on the whole thing.

Yumeko-chan wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I want to know what the alumni think. I know millennial waiting. I’m going to ask my friend who is in a alumni and survivor what she thinks.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What are your thoughts?

It will stop people from going in Garking and trying to get in. I never knew how many times it happened. Or if this happened because of Sol Pais?

However, it’s not gonna stop the contagion of the shooting itself. You’re going to have disturbed people who use it as a blueprint or idolize them. It’s sad but it’s going to happen with all the information out there. Tearing down Columbine won’t stop school shootings.

I know that’s not the main point but I’ve heard that brought up a couple times. About the people that idolize them and want to see where it happened and stuff. That’s going to happen school or no school.

I'm hearing from a lot of people that there's a lot of structural issues wrong with the building: seeping sewage, parts of the building slowly crumbling because it's on a hill, etc.  If this was ANY other school, obviously it would need to be torn down and rebuilt.  But because it IS Columbine, there's that sentimental attachment, in addition to the whole "Eric and Dylan will have won" thing.  I'm mixed on the whole thing.

I haven't heard about the structural issues, but that makes sense because the building is older. Obviously, if it is having some damning structural problems it should be torn down. The building won't be safe in the future. I think a middle point could be reached. Perhaps the building no longer functions as a school, but isn't torn down to keep it as a memorial.

I have mixed feelings. I keep going back and forth on it.

I guess I wish it was torn down when it happened. But I understand why it wasn't. They're right. Nobody had any idea what it would turn into so many years later.

I've been there twice. I know I'm part of the problem. But when I went I tried to keep a low profile. I tried to blend in. I tried to be respectful. I didn't want to bother any students. I didn't want to make anyone uncomfortable or waste anyone's time or resources.

I got in and out and nobody even noticed. At least I wasn't confronted.

But some people make us all look a lot worse than we are.

If anyone is offended that I went there...sorry...not sorry...sorry. I don't know. The whole thing is fucked and I wish none of it ever happened.

But it did...and it impacted people well beyond that school and that community.

Whatever happens, I'm glad I went while I could.

Evan Todd has weighed in on the subject and <gasp!> other than  his short blurb on arming everybody in the school (not really, but sort of) he makes a lot of really valid points. A recommended read.

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Well, I can see some of these clowns still don't know the root of the problem, because of their actions in the 90s is what led Eric and Dylan to commit these crimes. They wouldn't stop bullying and they still refuse to acknowledge any responsibility. Evan Todd is the worst of it. Hey let's bully these two kids, because they wear black and are different.

thelmar wrote:

Evan Todd has weighed in on the subject and <gasp!> other than  his short blurb on arming everybody in the school (not really, but sort of) he makes a lot of really valid points. A recommended read.

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I don't listen to anything that fat f**k has to say, because he was part of the problem of the toxic Columbine culture.

Guess I'll have to keep an eye on this, if they do decide to tear it down I will have to fly there for the weekend just to see it before it gets trashed.

thelmar wrote:

Evan Todd has weighed in on the subject and <gasp!> other than  his short blurb on arming everybody in the school (not really, but sort of) he makes a lot of really valid points. A recommended read.

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He does make some interesting points. I'm glad we are hearing from more students who were there during the shooting. I feel like their opinions on the matter are the ones that are most important. This really shouldn't be something the whole county decides, but rather those who were most affected by the shooting.

Absolutely, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], it is ultimately the community’s choice. Do they want to spend tax payer dollars on tearing down and rebuilding Columbine or perhaps another school that may need it more? Regardless, people will travel to visit “Columbine”. Other mass shooters will still have Columbine searches in their web browsers. It won’t change anything. I know the Hope Memorial Library is slated to be kept in its current location, which it should, but even that I would think would attract “tourists and onlookers” who visit. This is just one of those events that building or not will stay with us. I do often wonder if after our children (1999 high school kids) will Columbine be as “big” as it had been? Kind of like how we can refer to the Bath School Massacre. “Way back when”.

Has anyone heard anything from victims families speaking out? I would love to hear their take on it being torn down.

Yeah, this isn't the solution

The shooting happened 20 years ago. The school got cleaned up, the library is gone, they basically remodeled the school. So it's not like anything is the same or is a constant reminder of the shooting.
I think it's too late anyways. If they were to tear it down, they should have done so about 17 years ago. However, I do agree with what people are saying about the demolition and Eric and Dylan (it's what they wanted, what they were trying to do).

I just feel like the action is too late and irrelevant now.

It is an old building and probably has structural problems, so I think it should be torn down anyways. Plus, get rid of all the bad memories you know.

[quote="SenSpiritedAway"]Absolutely, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], it is ultimately the community’s choice. Do they want to spend tax payer dollars on tearing down and rebuilding Columbine or perhaps another school that may need it more? Regardless, people will travel to visit “Columbine”. Other mass shooters will still have Columbine searches in their web browsers. It won’t change anything. I know the Hope Memorial Library is slated to be kept in its current location, which it should, but even that I would think would attract “tourists and onlookers” who visit. This is just one of those events that building or not will stay with us. I do often wonder if after our children (1999 high school kids) will Columbine be as “big” as it had been? Kind of like how we can refer to the Bath School Massacre. “Way back when”.

Has anyone heard anything from victims families speaking out? I would love to hear their take on it being torn down. [/quote ] or what about the Charles Whitman shooting back in the 60s? It was relevant too and it probably still gets a lot of searches on the internet.

Someone on Reddit posted this blog by Columbine teacher English teacher, Paula Reed.

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