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 Was Patti shot first?

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cakeman

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PostSubject: Was Patti shot first?   Was Patti shot first? Icon_minitimeSat Jul 20, 2019 3:25 pm

For a later, longer post, I was reading through the statements of Bree Pasquale and Patti Nielson again. It has always struck me as curious that Patti reported Eric wearing his trench coat and something on his head. On the usual account, they shoot at Patti after Dylan has gone down and back up the stairs. Eric was supposed to have already ditched his trench coat by then. I am starting to believe she was shot first, which would then resolve this problem, as, if Eric wore a balaclava, it is said to be at the very beginning, and it would resolve the trench coat issue.

Patti says it was "approximately 11:20", which would fit with the timeline of being the first shot. Also, unless I am reading it incorrectly, Bree says after Patti ran into the library panicking that there was a student with a gun, she looked outside to see Dylan toss a pipe bomb into the parking lot, as Richard Castaldo describes before he was shot, then she notices what seems like either Lance Kirklin or Daniel Rohrbrough shot below the stairs, and then she says Dylan entered the cafeteria. All of this is supposed to happen before Patti runs in the library on the usual interpretation, but it's hard to square this with Bree's account. She had no reason to look outside before.

Of course, then Rachel and Richard sitting there while Patti is shot at seems a little curious, but maybe Patti just didn't take long to get into the library.  If true, I feel this supports the notion that their first priority was clearing the west entrance - I have begun to suspect they figured most of the shooting victims would have been there, rather than running into the parking lot. It would not have taken many shots to have survivors in the cafeteria fleeing into the parking lot get the message that they need to turn around. Also, only Dylan descends the stairs where he could have shot people fleeing into the parking lot, but they both enter the west entrance when people are running up the cafeteria stairs, and seem to relish that their victims ran that way rather than miss a beat.
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Koltin
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PostSubject: Re: Was Patti shot first?   Was Patti shot first? Icon_minitimeSat Jul 20, 2019 5:09 pm

cakeman wrote:
Patti reported Eric wearing his trench coat and something on his head.
That could have been a folded up balaclava, many people have stated that they thought that the gunshots were part off a senior prank. This can be the reason why Rachel and Richard didn't really react.
I think it's likely that Patti was shot first.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Patti shot first?   Was Patti shot first? Icon_minitimeSat Jul 20, 2019 8:24 pm

Patti wasn’t shot.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Patti shot first?   Was Patti shot first? Icon_minitimeSat Jul 20, 2019 11:31 pm

Patti was injured by broken glass when Eric and Dylan shot out the front doors. She wasn't shot.
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cakeman

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PostSubject: Re: Was Patti shot first?   Was Patti shot first? Icon_minitimeSun Jul 21, 2019 7:50 am

Talk about missing the point guys. Try reading beyond the title. It's about the sequence of events, not about whether the bullet hit Patti. Emphasis on "first" not on "shot". "Shot at" is used just as much in the OP, and "Was Patti shot at first" would be confusing due to the meaning of "at first", and anything else - "Was Patti the first to be fired upon" would be pretentious. Imagine it's "Was Brian Anderson shot first" if you are honestly confused, though I can't imagine you are. Not to mention, it's been characterized as a grazing wound from a bullet. Whether the glass shattered or not is one of the questions here.

Koltin wrote:
cakeman wrote:
Patti reported Eric wearing his trench coat and something on his head.
That could have been a folded up balaclava, many people have stated that they thought that the gunshots were part off a senior prank. This can be the reason why Rachel and Richard didn't really react.
I think it's likely that Patti was shot first.

Yes, in the OP I assume it was the balaclava. That's true about a senior prank. Richard mentions that. However, it seems weird for them not to react if the glass shattered. Perhaps it didn't.
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Lizpuff

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PostSubject: Re: Was Patti shot first?   Was Patti shot first? Icon_minitimeMon Jul 22, 2019 8:56 am

If you watch Eric in Columbine, Eric walks from the doors to the library at a casual pace and it takes him probably 10 to 15 seconds. So I think if Patti was really moving fast (which she would be) she could get to the library in just a few seconds.

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cakeman

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PostSubject: Re: Was Patti shot first?   Was Patti shot first? Icon_minitimeMon Jul 22, 2019 10:12 am

Interesting point Lizpuff. That certainly makes me feel her and Brian being the first shot (at) can be treated as a fact, but I do still wonder about the few seconds or so, since Richard remembers the pipe bomb tossed. I wonder if the shot just pierced the glass. Just a hole in the window, rather than the glass falling to the floor (which would also mean chances are it was a bullet grazing Patti, as she says it was). Pretty sure they shoot it again when they come back to enter it, which might be what explains the glass everybody can see afterwards. For instance, one of those three shell casings traced to Dylan was just in front of the door as I recall, and always imagined it as a gratuitous shot to the glass before entering. Even if they convinced themselves the glass was part of the senior prank, which I don't think they would, then it must at least be explained why Richard does not mention it. Though I suppose his being shot always leaves open the possibility it's just wiped from his memory or whatever, or maybe Jeffco told him not to do so.

4 victims rather than 2 I think drives home that the first priority was clearing the west entrance, meaning the stairs and entering the west entrance was not improvised. And while entering the library almost certainly was, it could not have been because of following Patti. Indeed if she was shot (at) first, they could not have known where she ran, as it's some time until they even enter the west entrance. Though, even on the usual narrative that they dick around in the hallway rather than rush into the library is probably enough to show that isn't true. I can see why it's attractive if you stick to the usual narrative about "plan B" and Patti being shot after all of the above, but not otherwise.

Also just good to have the facts regardless. Tossing the pipe bomb then "go go" or whatever, does not seem to be true.
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cakeman

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PostSubject: Re: Was Patti shot first?   Was Patti shot first? Icon_minitimeMon Jul 27, 2020 11:59 pm

Bumping a year old thread. Cullen illustrates another problem in thinking Patti wasn't shot first. From Page 50:

"The chaos and the solitude went on side by side, often only yards apart. As Dave Sanders ushered kids to the commons staircase, part-time art teacher Patti Nielson paced above him on hall-monitor duty. Sanders herded the lunch crowd up the stairwell toward her, but then down a parallel hallway. Nearly five hundred kids charged the length of the building. Nielson never saw or heard them."

lol


He also notes "Nielson thought it was a BB gun. Then she saw the size of the hole."  Even though it's large I find it significant that at least Cullen relays a hole rather than all the glass shattered like you see in pictures of the aftermath. Makes it easier to accept that Rachel and Richard were shot after, not before, perhaps still convincing themselves it was a prank, or something.

Bree, our best witness, clearly looks out the window because Patti enters, and clearly sees Dylan before he has descended the hill and entered the commons - and then saw that happen. On the usual timeline this has already happened:
Bree's statement

Even though she said as much on tv, people ignore it:


Seems to me to be the same pipe bomb Richard described. For example see 1:04 here: 


Brian's statement at points seems to gel with the usual theory. He thought at least Eric was shooting already, though it seems like he possibly isn't quite seeing Eric, and says that Dylan was just loading. Then he says things like Eric had his KMFDM hat on. He also does say it was 11:20, and that Patti was telling him to get out of the hall, which seems to me to suggest it's before anything had started. Same for Richard if we ignore the pipe bomb. However, given Brian and Richard were shot, I trust Bree. And in fact most people seem to do so, at least in other areas. In fact in Brian's first statement, he doesn't even mention Patti until he gets to the library.

Also note that same Bree clip has her say 'for last year' not 'last four years', which makes more sense given when we think they started planning. Funny how everything but the comments mentioned in this thread is what it what known for.
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