Dylan's suicide position

Was Dylan facing Eric when he committed suicide?

Agent47 wrote:

Was Dylan facing Eric when he committed suicide?

I don't believe he was facing Eric, I think he was at a right angle to him. Eric's back was sort of against the bookshelf and he was facing towards Dylan. Dylan was at a right angle to Eric with Eric was on his right hand side. When Dylan shot himself, he fell onto his right side and his head landed on Eric's knee and then he rolled off of Eric and partly onto his back.

thelmar wrote:

Agent47 wrote:

Was Dylan facing Eric when he committed suicide?

I don't believe he was facing Eric, I think he was at a right angle to him. Eric's back was sort of against the bookshelf and he was facing towards Dylan. Dylan was at a right angle to Eric with Eric was on his right hand side. When Dylan shot himself, he fell onto his right side and his head landed on Eric's knee and then he rolled off of Eric and partly onto his back.

I thought that was done by the people that found them, when they checked them for bombs. They turned Dylan over and checked and then took the pictures.

SandraSmit19 wrote:

I thought that was done by the people that found them, when they checked them for bombs. They turned Dylan over and checked and then took the pictures.

That is a commonly held belief but it doesn't explain the large amount of blood beneath Dylan's head in the photo that was released. There is just as much blood, if not more, to the left of his head as there is to the right of his head. If he was laying beside or on Eric's leg until police arrived and moved him, the majority of his blood would be on, beside, maybe even also under Eric's leg and to Dylan's right side (to the left of him if you are looking at the picture). If you look at the photo taken from the position of Dylan's feet, you can see that there's actually not much blood between Eric's leg, Dylan's hat (which is against Eric's leg), and Dylan's right shoulder. This suggests that although he fell onto his right side, landing on Eric's leg, he was not in that position very long.
The police didn't enter the library until 3:22 pm; about 3 hours after he killed himself if the timeline for the suicides is correct. Dylan would not have been actively bleeding any longer. The only way he could have so much blood on both sides of his head in the picture would be if he had arrived in that position while he was still bleeding, which would have been hours before the police arrived.

thelmar wrote:

SandraSmit19 wrote:

I thought that was done by the people that found them, when they checked them for bombs. They turned Dylan over and checked and then took the pictures.

That is a commonly held belief but it doesn't explain the large amount of blood beneath Dylan's head in the photo that was released. There is just as much blood, if not more, to the left of his head as there is to the right of his head. If he was laying beside or on Eric's leg until police arrived and moved him, the majority of his blood would be on, beside, maybe even also under Eric's leg and to Dylan's right side (to the left of him if you are looking at the picture). If you look at the photo taken from the position of Dylan's feet, you can see that there's actually not much blood between Eric's leg, Dylan's hat (which is against Eric's leg), and Dylan's right shoulder. This suggests that although he fell onto his right side, landing on Eric's leg, he was not in that position very long.
The police didn't enter the library until 3:22 pm; about 3 hours after he killed himself if the timeline for the suicides is correct. Dylan would not have been actively bleeding any longer. The only way he could have so much blood on both sides of his head in the picture would be if he had arrived in that position while he was still bleeding, which would have been hours before the police arrived.

That's a very good point. Like you said, he would not have been bleeding that much anymore by the time they got there. I guess it does make more sense that he moved himself right after shooting himself.

There is one thing that popped into my head though. If he slumped forward on top of Eric's legs after shooting himself, it would have taken more than just his body convulsing to turn himself onto his back like that, especially with his legs all awkward like that. I haven't tried it or anything (nor will I) but it seems like that flip onto his back would take some muscle work. Which begs the question, how aware was he after shooting himself? You hear of people surviving shots to the head, could he have been conscious for several seconds after shooting? We know from the autopsy report that he aspirated blood. Could he have been aware while doing it?

All pretty useless as far as questions go, of course. We'll never know. But I find the possibility that he botched his suicide attempt and was aware long enough to know it to be... disturbing. Not necessarily upsetting, given what he did before he shot himself, but certainly disturbing.

Interesting points guys. The only reason I asked was to try and ascertain what was going through his mind at the time, and I had it in my head that if he WAS facing Eric then it meant he'd had to get the courage and the nerve to do it by seeing Eric dead and knowing there was no way back. The fact that he wasn't suggests to me that he didn't need any convincing or psyching up so to speak, and was quite happy to go ahead and do it without stalling

SandraSmit19 wrote:

thelmar wrote:

SandraSmit19 wrote:

I thought that was done by the people that found them, when they checked them for bombs. They turned Dylan over and checked and then took the pictures.

That is a commonly held belief but it doesn't explain the large amount of blood beneath Dylan's head in the photo that was released. There is just as much blood, if not more, to the left of his head as there is to the right of his head. If he was laying beside or on Eric's leg until police arrived and moved him, the majority of his blood would be on, beside, maybe even also under Eric's leg and to Dylan's right side (to the left of him if you are looking at the picture). If you look at the photo taken from the position of Dylan's feet, you can see that there's actually not much blood between Eric's leg, Dylan's hat (which is against Eric's leg), and Dylan's right shoulder. This suggests that although he fell onto his right side, landing on Eric's leg, he was not in that position very long.
The police didn't enter the library until 3:22 pm; about 3 hours after he killed himself if the timeline for the suicides is correct. Dylan would not have been actively bleeding any longer. The only way he could have so much blood on both sides of his head in the picture would be if he had arrived in that position while he was still bleeding, which would have been hours before the police arrived.

That's a very good point. Like you said, he would not have been bleeding that much anymore by the time they got there. I guess it does make more sense that he moved himself right after shooting himself.

There is one thing that popped into my head though. If he slumped forward on top of Eric's legs after shooting himself, it would have taken more than just his body convulsing to turn himself onto his back like that, especially with his legs all awkward like that. I haven't tried it or anything (nor will I) but it seems like that flip onto his back would take some muscle work. Which begs the question, how aware was he after shooting himself? You hear of people surviving shots to the head, could he have been conscious for several seconds after shooting? We know from the autopsy report that he aspirated blood. Could he have been aware while doing it?

All pretty useless as far as questions go, of course. We'll never know. But I find the possibility that he botched his suicide attempt and was aware long enough to know it to be... disturbing. Not necessarily upsetting, given what he did before he shot himself, but certainly disturbing.

Well, Dylan did not die immediately from a head injury, but suffocated in his own blood. I think he might have been conscious even for a minute or so.

SandraSmit19 wrote:

There is one thing that popped into my head though. If he slumped forward on top of Eric's legs after shooting himself, it would have taken more than just his body convulsing to turn himself onto his back like that, especially with his legs all awkward like that. I haven't tried it or anything (nor will I) but it seems like that flip onto his back would take some muscle work. Which begs the question, how aware was he after shooting himself? You hear of people surviving shots to the head, could he have been conscious for several seconds after shooting? We know from the autopsy report that he aspirated blood. Could he have been aware while doing it?

All pretty useless as far as questions go, of course. We'll never know. But I find the possibility that he botched his suicide attempt and was aware long enough to know it to be... disturbing. Not necessarily upsetting, given what he did before he shot himself, but certainly disturbing.

As you said, it's all speculation so we'll never know if he experienced any sensation after the shot. I tend to think not given the catastrophic brain injury he suffered and because the medical examiner, pg. 12309, said "He could have been capable of some involuntary movement."
I don't think Dylan slumped forward onto Eric's legs when he fell. I think, because he was at a right angle to Eric, he fell onto his right side (which is why the TEC-9 was under his right hand and right leg). The right side of his face/ head landed on Eric's knee area.
pg. 12321- 12322, "A pool of blood on the carpet was to the north, east, and south of Klebold's head, as well as to the west under his left shoulder. There was a blood stain area on the back of his left arm above the elbow that was not consistent with the being formed with the arm in the position found. In addition some of the blood flows on the face were also formed with the head in a position other than as found. These flows were consistent with Klebold's head resting on the right side of the face to allow the blood flow on the left side out of the wound."
So, from his right side, he rolled so his upper body was flat on his back but the lower body was a bit twisted, facing Eric, as we see in the pictures. pg. 12303, "his legs were bent at the hip with his knees towards the north and his lower legs pointing west."

Onyx wrote:

Well, Dylan did not die immediately from a head injury, but suffocated in his own blood. I think he might have been conscious even for a minute or so.

This is also something that's speculated but probably isn't accurate. While he did have blood in his lungs, indicating that he inhaled blood before dying, the autopsy report does not indicate that it was the inhalation of the blood that killed him.
The way that cause of death is listed on autopsies is:
the immediate cause is listed first in part 1, and then other contributing conditions are listed in subsequent parts. In Dylan's autopsy, it says "cause of death is due to brain injuries secondary to a close contact wound." It then lists skull fractures and subdural hemorrhage, and then in part 2 the blood in the lungs is noted. This indicates that he did not die from the blood in his lungs, it was a secondary finding and really only indicates that he was briefly alive (long enough to at least taken a few breaths) after the shot to the head.

thelmar wrote:

Onyx wrote:

Well, Dylan did not die immediately from a head injury, but suffocated in his own blood. I think he might have been conscious even for a minute or so.

This is also something that's speculated but probably isn't accurate. While he did have blood in his lungs, indicating that he inhaled blood before dying, the autopsy report does not indicate that it was the inhalation of the blood that killed him.
The way that cause of death is listed on autopsies is:
the immediate cause is listed first in part 1, and then other contributing conditions are listed in subsequent parts. In Dylan's autopsy, it says "cause of death is due to brain injuries secondary to a close contact wound." It then lists skull fractures and subdural hemorrhage, and then in part 2 the blood in the lungs is noted. This indicates that he did not die from the blood in his lungs, it was a secondary finding and really only indicates that he was briefly alive (long enough to at least taken a few breaths) after the shot to the head.

Thank you for clearing this up, haven't read his autopsy report in ages.