Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis

Norwegian wrote:

Of course Dylan hurt other people. But that doesnt mean he did what he did for the same reason as Eric did. Which he didnt.
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Langmann also elaborates this in hes book Killer Kids. That whereas bot all psychopaths are sadists, the psychopathic school shooters are. Sadism, here, he argues, is the intent to cause harm to other people out of pleassure. Both their journals and experts that study them tells us that Dylan had a vastly different personality trait than Eric

Well, I don't agree with their analysis. I think both Eric and Dylan showed sadism, as well as depression, delusions, etc. Also, pretty much every mass shooter must have traits of sadism to commit a mass shooting in the first place. You can keep trying to change my opinion, but unless some new evidence comes out, it's not going to change.

Eric se llevó con él las respuestas.

downwardspiral wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Of course Dylan hurt other people. But that doesnt mean he did what he did for the same reason as Eric did. Which he didnt.
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Langmann also elaborates this in hes book Killer Kids. That whereas bot all psychopaths are sadists, the psychopathic school shooters are. Sadism, here, he argues, is the intent to cause harm to other people out of pleassure. Both their journals and experts that study them tells us that Dylan had a vastly different personality trait than Eric

Well, I don't agree with their analysis. I think both Eric and Dylan showed sadism, as well as depression, delusions, etc. Also, pretty much every mass shooter must have traits of sadism to commit a mass shooting in the first place. You can keep trying to change my opinion, but unless some new evidence comes out, it's not going to change.

Most of the evidence provided by threat assessment perspectives from FBI and based on Peter Langmans research, theres no public profile, so I hold this view, based on that.

I believe that Dylan was a complicated personality. Allthough, according to Dwayne Fuselier, it was more like Dylan was hurting and didnt care if he hurt others. I believe thats the conclusion that most experts have accepted.

Not too long ago I read a bit from a book by criminal profiler Mary Ellen O'toole, and the question hit me: Do we always understand the motive for someone to commit a violent act? I dont think we do. Even though Im far from an expert, Im keenly aware that we probably do not have an adequate debate over what level of this is mental illness and what isnt. Even though most mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of violence rather than perpetrators

This conclusion "he was hurting and didn't care if he hurt others" - what does it even mean? He didnt "didnt care", he actively WANTED to hurt others. He worked for months to hurt others.

Ligeya wrote:

This conclusion "he was hurting and didn't care if he hurt others" - what does it even mean? He didnt "didnt care", he actively WANTED to hurt others. He worked for months to hurt others.

Its nearly impossible to fully comprehend mass murderers imo. But we can only only understand as far as its possible. I think its possible that what Fuselier ment by that statement is, that Dylan didnt care that he murdered others for the sake of dying. I also think its interesting that everything else we know about school shooters is that it screams failure from one end to the other. So theres emotional setbacks, failures and so on.

imo both eric and dylan had psychopathic/sociopathic traits but dylans depression overshadowed those traits.

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

This conclusion "he was hurting and didn't care if he hurt others" - what does it even mean? He didnt "didnt care", he actively WANTED to hurt others. He worked for months to hurt others.

Its nearly impossible to fully comprehend mass murderers imo. But we can only only understand as far as its possible. I think its possible that what Fuselier ment by that statement is, that Dylan didnt care that he murdered others for the sake of dying. I also think its interesting that everything else we know about school shooters is that it screams failure from one end to the other. So theres emotional setbacks, failures and so on.

I am sorry, but it sound almost offensive. Unfortunately hundreds of people kill themselves every day because they are hurting too much, in one way or another. They don't kill other people because their pain is too unbearable, especially the way Dylan killed other people. He commited mass murder because he actively wanted to commit mass murder. Same as Eric.

Ligeya wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

This conclusion "he was hurting and didn't care if he hurt others" - what does it even mean? He didnt "didnt care", he actively WANTED to hurt others. He worked for months to hurt others.

Its nearly impossible to fully comprehend mass murderers imo. But we can only only understand as far as its possible. I think its possible that what Fuselier ment by that statement is, that Dylan didnt care that he murdered others for the sake of dying. I also think its interesting that everything else we know about school shooters is that it screams failure from one end to the other. So theres emotional setbacks, failures and so on.

I am sorry, but it sound almost offensive. Unfortunately hundreds of people kill themselves every day because they are hurting too much, in one way or another. They don't kill other people because  their pain is too unbearable, especially the way Dylan killed other people. He commited mass murder because he actively wanted to commit mass murder. Same as Eric.

Thats correct. But a few do, however.
I dont think Dylan did because he wanted to. I think he did because he didnt have the courage to commit suicide alone and he therefore went along with Erics plan

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

This conclusion "he was hurting and didn't care if he hurt others" - what does it even mean? He didnt "didnt care", he actively WANTED to hurt others. He worked for months to hurt others.

Its nearly impossible to fully comprehend mass murderers imo. But we can only only understand as far as its possible. I think its possible that what Fuselier ment by that statement is, that Dylan didnt care that he murdered others for the sake of dying. I also think its interesting that everything else we know about school shooters is that it screams failure from one end to the other. So theres emotional setbacks, failures and so on.

I am sorry, but it sound almost offensive. Unfortunately hundreds of people kill themselves every day because they are hurting too much, in one way or another. They don't kill other people because  their pain is too unbearable, especially the way Dylan killed other people. He commited mass murder because he actively wanted to commit mass murder. Same as Eric.

Thats correct. But a few do, however.
I dont think Dylan did because he wanted to. I think he did because he didnt have the courage to commit suicide alone and he therefore went along with Erics plan

And why do you think so, if you don't mind me asking? Considering the fact that he was first who mentioned mass murder and mentioned it several times?

Ligeya wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

This conclusion "he was hurting and didn't care if he hurt others" - what does it even mean? He didnt "didnt care", he actively WANTED to hurt others. He worked for months to hurt others.

Its nearly impossible to fully comprehend mass murderers imo. But we can only only understand as far as its possible. I think its possible that what Fuselier ment by that statement is, that Dylan didnt care that he murdered others for the sake of dying. I also think its interesting that everything else we know about school shooters is that it screams failure from one end to the other. So theres emotional setbacks, failures and so on.

I am sorry, but it sound almost offensive. Unfortunately hundreds of people kill themselves every day because they are hurting too much, in one way or another. They don't kill other people because  their pain is too unbearable, especially the way Dylan killed other people. He commited mass murder because he actively wanted to commit mass murder. Same as Eric.

Thats correct. But a few do, however.
I dont think Dylan did because he wanted to. I think he did because he didnt have the courage to commit suicide alone and he therefore went along with Erics plan

And why do you think so, if you don't mind me asking? Considering the fact that he was first who mentioned mass murder and mentioned it several times?

I dont think any of that stuff matters who came up with it first. I think it matters that they did it for completely different reasons. Now, its possible, of course, that Dylan may have had some sadistic traits, but from most of what Ive read so far it points in the direction of an extreme dependance on Harris aswell as feelings of rejection or alienation. Be it real or percieved. And along the lines its possible that the environment at the school have played a role, allthough I think thats an unsafe assumption

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

This conclusion "he was hurting and didn't care if he hurt others" - what does it even mean? He didnt "didnt care", he actively WANTED to hurt others. He worked for months to hurt others.

Its nearly impossible to fully comprehend mass murderers imo. But we can only only understand as far as its possible. I think its possible that what Fuselier ment by that statement is, that Dylan didnt care that he murdered others for the sake of dying. I also think its interesting that everything else we know about school shooters is that it screams failure from one end to the other. So theres emotional setbacks, failures and so on.

I am sorry, but it sound almost offensive. Unfortunately hundreds of people kill themselves every day because they are hurting too much, in one way or another. They don't kill other people because  their pain is too unbearable, especially the way Dylan killed other people. He commited mass murder because he actively wanted to commit mass murder. Same as Eric.

Thats correct. But a few do, however.
I dont think Dylan did because he wanted to. I think he did because he didnt have the courage to commit suicide alone and he therefore went along with Erics plan

And why do you think so, if you don't mind me asking? Considering the fact that he was first who mentioned mass murder and mentioned it several times?

I dont think any of that stuff matters who came up with it first. I think it matters that they did it for completely different reasons. Now, its possible, of course, that Dylan may have had some sadistic traits, but from most of what Ive read so far it points in the direction of an extreme dependance on Harris aswell as feelings of rejection or alienation. Be it real or percieved. And along the lines its possible that the environment at the school  have played a role, allthough I think thats an unsafe assumption

Doctor Todd Grande believes Dylan was a psychopath with vulnerable narcissism. That makes more sense and aligns better with reality than the fairytale version that depicts Dylan as a scared kid with Stockholm syndrome.

Read up about covert narcissism, Dylan shows a lot of those traits. Anybody who can callously carry out what Dylan did and enjoy it (and reports indicate Dylan enjoyed the act of killing, even moreso than Eric) are obviously up there on the psychopath scale.

There are two types of psychopathy, too. Factor 1 and factor 2. Dylan showed a few traits from both.

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

Ligeya wrote:

This conclusion "he was hurting and didn't care if he hurt others" - what does it even mean? He didnt "didnt care", he actively WANTED to hurt others. He worked for months to hurt others.

Its nearly impossible to fully comprehend mass murderers imo. But we can only only understand as far as its possible. I think its possible that what Fuselier ment by that statement is, that Dylan didnt care that he murdered others for the sake of dying. I also think its interesting that everything else we know about school shooters is that it screams failure from one end to the other. So theres emotional setbacks, failures and so on.

I am sorry, but it sound almost offensive. Unfortunately hundreds of people kill themselves every day because they are hurting too much, in one way or another. They don't kill other people because  their pain is too unbearable, especially the way Dylan killed other people. He commited mass murder because he actively wanted to commit mass murder. Same as Eric.

Thats correct. But a few do, however.
I dont think Dylan did because he wanted to. I think he did because he didnt have the courage to commit suicide alone and he therefore went along with Erics plan

And why do you think so, if you don't mind me asking? Considering the fact that he was first who mentioned mass murder and mentioned it several times?

I dont think any of that stuff matters who came up with it first. I think it matters that they did it for completely different reasons. Now, its possible, of course, that Dylan may have had some sadistic traits, but from most of what Ive read so far it points in the direction of an extreme dependance on Harris aswell as feelings of rejection or alienation. Be it real or percieved. And along the lines its possible that the environment at the school have played a role, allthough I think thats an unsafe assumption

Of course it matters who came up with it first, are you kidding.
Where is idea of extreme dependance on Harris is coming from? Any evidences of said extreme dependance?