Isla Vista University Shooting 05/23/13

I watched the start of the documentary but fell asleep half way through. I'll catch up with it tonight.

It just seemed to show his videos then some expert would chip in with a few comments after a minute or two of ER filming himself.

An interview with Elliot Rodger's dad is going to be shown on ABC this Friday.

I've been reading and watching his manifesto and videos I couldn't stand his whining. He behaved like a pathetic kid all the time. He never tried to pick up a girl instead drove or walked through the campus like a psycho maybe he was waiting for a miracle to happen. I have more respect for Eric at least he tried to be attractive to women. Eliot should have put his pride in his pocket and hired a hooker. Maybe if he'd had sex this sensless crime might have been prevented.

MysteryMan wrote:

I've been reading and watching his manifesto and videos I couldn't stand his whining. He behaved like a pathetic kid all the time. He never tried to pick up a girl instead drove or walked through the campus like a psycho maybe he was waiting for a miracle to happen. I have more respect for Eric at least he tried to be attractive to women. Eliot should have put his pride in his pocket and hired a hooker. Maybe if he'd had sex this sensless crime might have been prevented.

..Or if he learned that people don't owe him sex.   

Hale-Bopp wrote:

Well, he wrote in his Manifesto that he don't want to hire a prostitute, because fake affection is not what he was looking for.

Yes I've read this too but as I mentioned before with that behavior he never had a chance to find a girlfriend at least a normal one.

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..Or if he learned that people don't owe him sex.

Exactly!

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I'm wondering why exactly this shooting seems to get so much attention.

I assume that's because of a part of men's population in some of Eliot's ideas can see a reflection of themselves in some way We've had a crisis of masculinity since the second world war. Many of men don't know how to manage with women and they even don't know who they are. Maybe this case give them opportunity to look inside of their selfs.

bump.

Guest wrote:

Lananas wrote:

I'm in the midst of reading Rodger's manifesto. It's crazy how vividly he remembers his entire life. I can hardly remember what I did two days ago. What I wrote initially was quite harsh, as it was in a flash of anger. I'll use that as a reminder to look deeper into things before making any statements.

As I go deeper into the manifesto, I find that there wasn't only something wrong with Rodger, but the society we're living in.

We teach girls that they're only good for certain jobs, pregnancy, and sex. People say they're the weaker gender, and that they're too emotional to be in power. However, there are awful messages sent out to boys as well.

They can't cry, they have to be manly, and if they're a virgin after 18 they're losers. If you're in sports it has to be a "masculine" one like football or basketball. At age 10, kids in Rodger's camp cabin already started swooning over scantily clad girls in magazines. If that's not a sign that society is teaching young boys that they have to be promiscuous and like girls to stay the "alpha male" they should be, then I don't know what is.

Hmm, I don't agree about the part with girls. I don't know how it is in America, but feminism is quite mainstream in Germany, to the point that it is a taboo to speak against it. In school they are definitive not encouraged to engage in traditional roles.
Also, judging from the media (TV shows, movies etc.) I know from the USA, it does appear to me that american media have a similar positive attitude towards feminism. Can you mention me an example for an American TV show or an American movie who is portraying women in a way contrary to feminism? I can't.
I believe it would make no sense for society to teach women to adopt roles contrary to feminism, since feminism in necessary for modern society (employers need females as workers, Universities need females as students etc.) Rather I think it makes sense for society to teach women to believe that the way they are raised is contrary to feminism, since that will encourage them to support feminism and adopt this attitude in their private life.
I will write more about the man-issue later.

Not to derail the thread too much, but there are many instances of misogyny in American Cinema. "American Psycho" was a prominent one, as well as the "Legally Blonde" franchise. Although, "Legally Blonde" was more about overcoming stereotypes regardless of your background, or how you dress, etc. So, that might be a wash. Video games are a big source of misogyny as well *ahem* GTA 5.

Most of it is satire, as is the case with GTA 5. Also, the females are still usually protagonists overcoming some sort of obstacle, and anything sexist would be relative to the film's atmosphere only.
There are instances of feminist extremism, but probably no more than any other disenfranchised group that has an organization formed.

In poland feminism is mainstream enough for everyone to be able to freely talk about, but its also constantly under attack by the conservative right and the church.

So you can say you are a feminist or that you are an anti-feminist and most of the time not be afraid of a backlash, unless you meet some real political extremist.

Misogyny is probably as bad as in Germany or in other neighbouring countries. Its certainly an issue, but in no way the greatest problem in the nation. The vast majority of people feel that men and women are in the same boat and care mroe about social class/education/political opinions than gender.

Really, until pop culture made a big deal about it, feminism was in the same category as racism in that we made some real headway in changing things for the better but still admitting that more needed to be done.

I would say the general attitude towards it in the USA is about the same. Those who argue about it to any extent on either side are disillusioned towards other problems facing the public.

I used to think the scale of Elliot's misogyny was exceptional. Only later I have learned about all the neo-misogynist movements - Red Pill, MGTOW, MRA, manosphere (google with caution). With those being a thing, it would be strange if no one went on a rampage caused by not getting any (or getting some but not enough).

It is sad, but at least some variants of feminism (gender equality) focused on aspects of traditional masculine and feminine portrayals that needed to be changed like mental health, paternity leave and pursuit of careers outside of the social norm for your gender.

Nothing really good has come from the male-oriented groups, and a lot of their manifestos read just like you said; guys who can't get any and are pissed about it.

It seem Elliot taunted his victims before shooting them. This is kind of intersting.


__________________________________________________________________________
Swartz turned to look at Miller, who turned and ran southbound on El Embarcadero toward Del
Playa. At the same time, a black vehicle traveled southbound on El Embarcadero and approached
Swartz from the north. The vehicle swerved slightly in her direction and stopped in the middle of
the road, pulling up next to her. Swartz was on the east side of El Embarcadero between El Nido
and Del Playa. The suspect said, “Hey, what’s up?” and Swartz described him as a “totally normal”
guy with brown hair and sunglasses. Swartz said, “What’s up?” and continued walking
northbound on El Embarcadero.
Swartz looked back at the suspect who was still looking at her. The suspect lifted a “little black
gun” from his lap, which he held in his right hand, near his chest. The suspect never extended the
gun from the window. About one second later, Swartz heard a gunshot and was surprised she
wasn’t struck due to being so close. She wondered if the gun was even real.
Swartz said the suspect was smiling and had a “little grin” on his face


____________________________________________________________________

So i recently read this guy's manifesto...wow...just wow. I remember when it happened and I didn't pay too much attention to it on the news I just thought oh its just another nutcase. But this guy remembers very vividly ever incident that ever happened to him back well into childhood and he held on to all of that stuff forever until he finally snapped. It's a shame nobody saw anything wrong with him early enough to get him some real help.

The world made him act that way.

Or I guess genetics.

Like everything in his 141 pages of crap that he mentions ruined his life forever are just everyday occurrences that happen to people everywhere all the time, they are just normal every day things. I know they say he had Asperger's syndrome but I have a cousin with that and he doesn't act like a loon at all so I know there was MUCH more then that wrong with this guy. Like everything he wrote about that bothered him had to do with other people living normal lives. He couldn't live a normal life for whatever reason whether it had to do with aspergers or if he had other serious issues on top of that (which he totally did!).

Anyway thats what i have been reading for the last few days and all i can think about now is how mundane and trivial the things are that he let bother him. You're 22 and haven't had sex or a girlfriend? YOU ARE ONLY 22! THERE ARE STILL MANY YEARS LEFT FOR YOU TO GET YOURSELF SOME HELP AND FIX YOUR LIFE AND THEN MAYBE YOU CAN MEET SOMEBODY!

Speaking as a woman myself, no woman in her right mind would date someone who talked and behaved like him.

I honestly can relate to his manifesto, he was the first mass shooter which interested me.The problem is once violent passions are inflamed they cannot be moderated by any human reason or logic.

Sometimes behavior can be very illogical.

I do not think it 141 pages of crap, I mean you are entitled to your opinion certainly, but he lays out his motivations rather clearly, that is very important. Anyway it does really mater he is dead....

James411 wrote:

I do not think it 141 pages of crap, I mean you are entitled to your opinion certainly, but he lays out his motivations rather clearly, that is very important. Anyway it does really mater he is dead....

By crap I mean that he only complains about one thing the entire time, women. You're going to kill people and yourself over women? I didn't mean that it was just terrible to read I just mean it's redundant.

It does matter even if he is dead, because he took innocent people out with him and their families will never get them back. I read somewhere that his own family doesn't even publicly acknowledge his death, its almost as if they just went on with their lives and pretend he never existed, that is kind of sad. They could have gotten him help as a child when everybody first started noticing he was different. Maybe their social status and money made them think that they could fix it by buying him anything he wanted, which he talks about also in those 141 pages. They bought him expensive clothes to make him feel better, a new car, computers, they paid his rent. I think this was a big mistake, whether you are rich or not because you're basically just letting your kids know they don't have to work for what they want because they can have it all. He wrote that he turned down several jobs that he thought were below him. He felt so entitled all his life that he didn't seem to comprehend how normal people even live.

I understand something was wrong with him, and that he felt like he was tortured, but I still think he could have received help. All of the things he wrote about that were "horrible" and "absolutely terrible" were not even anything done directly to him, it was just him watching other people have fun, those people didn't even know he hated them. He also mentioned having several facebook stalking accounts so that he could see what all of those people were doing. He was obsessed with fitting in with society and getting women and sex, for some reason he thought that those were the only goals people have in life.

Yep. That's ALL he ever talked about was women. How women hated him. How women ruined his life. Women, women, women. The thing with this guy though, he never even tried to approach or speak to any women. He just expected them to flock on over to him. Which they never did. Probably because he came off creepy as hell. And he was this tiny, little dude. Who wants a tiny little guy for a boyfriend? And one that is creepy as hell on top of that. I can't say I don't blame women for not liking him. But I'm sure if he lowered his standards and actually tried talking to some girls, he could have at least gotten a few dates.

Jenn wrote:

Yep. That's ALL he ever talked about was women. How women hated him. How women ruined his life. Women, women, women. The thing with this guy though, he never even tried to approach or speak to any women. He just expected them to flock on over to him. Which they never did. Probably because he came off creepy as hell. And he was this tiny, little dude. Who wants a tiny little guy for a boyfriend? And one that is creepy as hell on top of that. I can't say I don't blame women for not liking him. But I'm sure if he lowered his standards and actually tried talking to some girls, he could have at least gotten a few dates.

Yeah, I read the entire 141 pages and all he ever mentioned was going for walks and HOPING women would notice him. That's not usually how it works, lol. I mean we don't just come up to random men on the street and fall all over them...in fact we're usually told not to do that because it's dangerous.

I feel sorry for him that he grew up with his social disorder and that his parents let him believe that everybody lives wealthy like that and should have high expectations for life. He made several references to flying first class and living in upscale places and he was absolutely mortified to fly with "regular" people or to be seen at his mothers apartment when she had to move to what he called a low scale scum place, which I googled by the way and it looks fantastic to me. lol

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Ldude wrote:

Has anyone gone through the report?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On page 2: "The suspect used several large hunting-type knives in the stabbings, a Sig Sauer P226 9mm semiautomatic pistol in the shootings, and a 2008 black BMW 328i sedan in the vehicular assaults."

This is the same gun that was found unused in Adam Lanza's front left pocket. Elliot Rodger mentioned researching suicide by gunshot in "My Twisted World." Do you think he also researched mass shootings?

According to the report, Rodger at least searched the internet for information on George Sodini (all the way back in September of 2012) who was actually very similar to him in some ways. He posted on the internet about his inability to get women to date or have sex with him (although he wasn't a virgin like Rodger) and he targeted women when he went through with his shooting. Also, the Isla Vista report mentions

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Noteworthy information was provided by a librarian who works at the Santa Barbara City College library. The librarian reported that she assisted a person, matching the suspect’s description, with locating books on serial killers and mass murder. She helped this person on two separate occasions, with the last occasion being approximately two to three months prior to May 23, 2014. 126 The person she assisted only viewed the books in the library and did not check them out.

If you look at the snippets of internet search history listed in the report, he also searched for "Xingjian railway station terrorist knife attack explosion bombing" and "Guangzhou train station knife attack" a little over a week before his own attack but it's hard to say whether he did any more research because the report says that these were just a few pieces of the search history. I personally think that they would have included other relevant searches in the report so we might be able to infer that at the very least, he didn't do any more searches on his own laptop computer. However, if that was definitely him at the library, then it's possible that he did some internet searches about mass murder on computers that did not belong to him.

In regard to the gun he used, I would say that if Rodger researched Lanza and he knew that Lanza killed himself with a Glock 20SF then why would he have chosen to use the pistol that Lanza never even took out of his pocket if it was related? I would assume that Rodger's suicide research probably focused more on the proper technique because although I don't know that much about guns, I think that the trajectory (and maybe the caliber?) would be more relevant than the particular model of gun.

I agree with sscc. They looked thru his history and found he had searched for several different things related to murdering people. While we don't have concrete proof of him being on any mass shooting sites and posting like Lanza I don't doubt he visited them.

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BTW, ty for posting that link [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I hadn't read it before and it was quite interesting!