Rachel's body being dragged from the original spot (Better quality)

I don't think i've ever seen a non-pixely version of the first dragging of Rachel's body, & Richard laying on the bumper just after his rescue. You can almost make out their faces.

Edit: I'm guessing the original gif that I posted yesterday was too big of a file for it to play correctly on forums. So, it's no longer showing up. Here's the exact same gif but it'll just open in another tab. I apologize.

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Also, i'm pretty sure you can see the left temple wound. But it could just be her hair.

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Where did you get this from? Is there more frames? Also is the second photo just a duplicate of the first, because the first does not show up for me.

The only footage I've seen of a deceased Rachel Scott would be in this YouTube video:

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But anyways, nice find. Are there any more pictures showing other victims? Say, Richard Castaldo?

Dataverse wrote:

The only footage I've seen of a deceased Rachel Scott would be in this YouTube video:

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But anyways, nice find. Are there any more pictures showing other victims? Say, Richard Castaldo?

No, it was actually just a short clip from a video ABC news uploaded to youtube last October. Here's the link if you're interested.

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Falcolus wrote:

Where did you get this from? Is there more frames? Also is the second photo just a duplicate of the first, because the first does not show up for me.

Oh, it's a gif. It's no longer showing up for me now either? Weird. It's most likely because of the file size. I'll try and make it smaller & replace it for you guys.

paradisedreams wrote:

Falcolus wrote:

Where did you get this from? Is there more frames? Also is the second photo just a duplicate of the first, because the first does not show up for me.

Oh, it's a gif. It's no longer showing up for me now either? Weird. It's most likely because of the file size. I'll try and make it smaller & replace it for you guys.

The link works fine. Quite clear footage though, although I am intrigued to know if there is more footage from the same camera? If that makes any sense.

Falcolus wrote:

paradisedreams wrote:

Falcolus wrote:

Where did you get this from? Is there more frames? Also is the second photo just a duplicate of the first, because the first does not show up for me.

Oh, it's a gif. It's no longer showing up for me now either? Weird. It's most likely because of the file size. I'll try and make it smaller & replace it for you guys.

The link works fine. Quite clear footage though, although I am intrigued to know if there is more footage from the same camera? If that makes any sense.

There has to be. I would think the video quality of that short clip is (or somewhat close) to what most of the news footage showed live on the day of the shooting. While most of us have only seen the bad quality news clips and aerial footage that was uploaded by some very patient people during the dial-up internet era that was the 90's/early 2000s. I guess it's always a good idea to watch those few newer Columbine related segments that the major news channels upload to their websites & Youtube.

Ahh I just saw the Video posted a wee bit above, clears afew things up. I think I might see if ABC has a source for that video.

Morbid question/observation: why was there no blood smeared as they were dragging her across the ground?

fatlittleparasite wrote:

Morbid question/observation: why was there no blood smeared as they were dragging her across the ground?

I've always wondered about that, too. There has been speculations to whether or not she was already dead before the shot to her temple. Which would mean her heart had stopped beating prior to that supposed fatal shot. & could explain the lack of heavy bleeding. But I think I read somewhere that one of the swat team members said that he felt helpless when she was laying on the grass next to the fire truck. It was something along the lines of "The young girl was not only obviously deceased, but she was bleeding everywhere."  She was also pulled by her arms, laying in a semi upright position, both times. So, who knows! These are the questions that I kinda wish we had the answers to.

Why exactly did they move the body in the first place? If she was obviously dead why didn't they just leave her there?

Just noticed this. If you zoom in you can see one of Richards wounds as he lays on the bumper. :/

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In the 11k there are some photos of shell casings that were from that little gravel area by the wall. There was a fair amount of blood on the ground, although they were very close up pictures so who knows how much there would of really been.

In an interview IIRC the SWAT team member who dragged her did explain why, I remember thinking it was a valid reason, but I can't remember it. If he had not changed he position then there might of been helicopter footage of her laying there.

I'm sure everyone's seen these before, but I'll go ahead and post them anyway:

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I downloaded them years ago ... from where, God knows.

Okay, I have found and uploaded a two-minute clip with live news footage of Rachel's body being dragged.

Warning: Graphic Video:

(I downloaded this clip many years ago - from where, I don't know. I have a lot of stuff on my hard drives, but most if not nearly all of it has been widely seen.)

The dragging part starts around 1:13.

Unfortunately, the camera veered away toward the parking lot and swung back toward the fire truck as Rachel was already being dragged. The quality is not any better than anything we've seen before, but it is interesting to see how it was covered live on TV.

Also, this is kind of a dumb thing to point out, but at 0:25, if you look in the lower-left corner, you can see a well-dressed woman (a teacher?) almost tripping and pulling off her high-heeled shoes.

LPorter101 wrote:

I'm sure everyone's seen these before, but I'll go ahead and post them anyway:

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I downloaded them years ago ... from where, God knows.

Thanks for these. I don't think i've ever seen them that close up before. Ugh, you can just tell by the way he's laying (even if he was moved a few times) that he never knew what hit him before he hit the pavement. Which is obviously a good thing. This question is slightly off topic, I guess. But I don't think I ever heard or seen a sketch showing where Sean and Lance fell before they were rescued? I know it's obviously in that surrounding area..

Here's one:

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Cezar wrote:

Here's one:

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There has to be footage of this somewhere. I have a picture saved of the same girl, but she's closer and is actually looking down at the body. :/

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They use the front on footage in the documentary 'Game Over in Littleton'.

Lt. Phelan stated in his report that they were not SURE that Rachel was dead, that is why they went back to get her - page 008461

Falcolus wrote:

Where did you get this from? Is there more frames? Also is the second photo just a duplicate of the first, because the first does not show up for me.

I found this high quality pic before the last move


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I really find weird the way they just drag her, like she was some kind of bag or something. As Falcolus said before it seems they had a good reason for that, but still it's kind awkward. I can only imagine what Brooks Browns's father thought of it, considering his criticism to the work of the police both prior to the shooting and during it.

Lodka wrote:

I really find weird the way they just drag her, like she was some kind of bag or something. As Falcolus said before it seems they had a good reason for that, but still it's kind awkward. I can only imagine what Brooks Browns's father thought of it, considering his criticism to the work of the police both prior to the shooting and during it.

Its really not that weird. I get that some see it as disrespectful, but Rachel was definitely dead by that point. Those officers put themselves at risk simply by retrieving her body. Soldiers will drag their dead comrades bodies when in the middle of a war zone. Ultimately getting them out takes precedent over how they are retrieved. Also I think they moved her so kids who escaped wouldn't have to see her laying dead. It may seem cold and harsh, but it was done with the best of intentions.

Nirvana92 wrote:

Lodka wrote:

I really find weird the way they just drag her, like she was some kind of bag or something. As Falcolus said before it seems they had a good reason for that, but still it's kind awkward. I can only imagine what Brooks Browns's father thought of it, considering his criticism to the work of the police both prior to the shooting and during it.

Its really not that weird. I get that some see it as disrespectful, but Rachel was definitely dead by that point. Those officers put themselves at risk simply by retrieving her body. Soldiers will drag their dead comrades bodies when in the middle of a war zone. Ultimately getting them out takes precedent over how they are retrieved. Also I think they moved her so kids who escaped wouldn't have to see her laying dead. It may seem cold and harsh, but it was done with the best of intentions.

Yes, but in a warzone you usually only have one chance to retrieve a body, this wasn't a warzone. They could have left her where she was and they would have had a chance to retrieve her with more dignity later. The shooting wasn't going to last forever, after all.

As for kids seeing her, far fewer would have seen her if they had simply left her where she was. As it was, they put her right beside the path (before they moved her further away).

SandraSmit19 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Lodka wrote:

I really find weird the way they just drag her, like she was some kind of bag or something. As Falcolus said before it seems they had a good reason for that, but still it's kind awkward. I can only imagine what Brooks Browns's father thought of it, considering his criticism to the work of the police both prior to the shooting and during it.

Its really not that weird. I get that some see it as disrespectful, but Rachel was definitely dead by that point. Those officers put themselves at risk simply by retrieving her body. Soldiers will drag their dead comrades bodies when in the middle of a war zone. Ultimately getting them out takes precedent over how they are retrieved. Also I think they moved her so kids who escaped wouldn't have to see her laying dead. It may seem cold and harsh, but it was done with the best of intentions.

Yes, but in a warzone you usually only have one chance to retrieve a body, this wasn't a warzone. They could have left her where she was and they would have had a chance to retrieve her with more dignity later. The shooting wasn't going to last forever, after all.

As for kids seeing her, far fewer would have seen her if they had simply left her where she was. As it was, they put her right beside the path (before they moved her further away).

Indeed it does seem that the SWAT team put her even more out in the open then where she had originally started. This among other things had the conspiracy theorists saying that it was all fake and that it was a dummy they were dragging all over the place and left it where they did so the news crews would be able to film the kids running past, over, around her body.

Then they moved her yet again. The footage of them dragging her around has always turned my stomach. I can't even imagine what it was like for her parents seeing that.

I always thought that footage of her being dragged was really messed up. I can understand both sides. The police didn't know if there were explosives around the school or inside or shooters on the roof. They wanted to retrieve and preserve what they could of Rachel. But I feel like they could have at least tried picking her up instead of dragging her...

paradisedreams wrote:

Also, i'm pretty sure you can see the left temple wound. But it could just be her hair.

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Ugh seeing this broke my heart. That poor girl. I just hope she didn't suffer.

  

It's so sad seeing her laying there like that, with people just standing around.

MrHorror93700 wrote:

Rachel's Body, R.I.P  

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Not to be gross, but that's definitely the worst I've ever seen of that...yikes. I'd only seen the far-away stuff and the clip of people running past her. And the dragging clip but it's so far away that you can't see much of anything and some people even try to claim it's Richard Castaldo.

Watching them drag her ALWAYS made me feel sick. But knowing her parents saw it is heartbreaking.

The way her arm drops when the fire department guy put her down gives me the chills. RIP.

There's no dignity in death, is there? I realize they didn't have time to be gentle and if she was dead it was pointless but how about treating her as if she was a living and breathing human being at one point? How about acknowledging that she has loved ones who will be in agony watching something like that? Most of these guys had kids of their own, how would they have felt watching their kid get dragged like so much trash? It's been a long time now, but it still bothers me. Can you tell?

WOW, so very sad

paradisedreams wrote:

fatlittleparasite wrote:

Morbid question/observation: why was there no blood smeared as they were dragging her across the ground?

I've always wondered about that, too. There has been speculations to whether or not she was already dead before the shot to her temple. Which would mean her heart had stopped beating prior to that supposed fatal shot. & could explain the lack of heavy bleeding. But I think I read somewhere that one of the swat team members said that he felt helpless when she was laying on the grass next to the fire truck. It was something along the lines of "The young girl was not only obviously deceased, but she was bleeding everywhere."  She was also pulled by her arms, laying in a semi upright position, both times. So, who knows! These are the questions that I kinda wish we had the answers to.

Spoiler:

Hard to tell because of the picture quality but in this zoomed in image you can almost make out streaks of blood running across her face. Very sad.

asloversgo wrote:

Falcolus wrote:

Where did you get this from? Is there more frames? Also is the second photo just a duplicate of the first, because the first does not show up for me.

I found this high quality pic before the last move


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'm not very familiar with the layout of the school. Is that Eric's car by the library?

Guest wrote:

SandraSmit19 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Lodka wrote:

I really find weird the way they just drag her, like she was some kind of bag or something. As Falcolus said before it seems they had a good reason for that, but still it's kind awkward. I can only imagine what Brooks Browns's father thought of it, considering his criticism to the work of the police both prior to the shooting and during it.

Its really not that weird. I get that some see it as disrespectful, but Rachel was definitely dead by that point. Those officers put themselves at risk simply by retrieving her body. Soldiers will drag their dead comrades bodies when in the middle of a war zone. Ultimately getting them out takes precedent over how they are retrieved. Also I think they moved her so kids who escaped wouldn't have to see her laying dead. It may seem cold and harsh, but it was done with the best of intentions.

Yes, but in a warzone you usually only have one chance to retrieve a body, this wasn't a warzone. They could have left her where she was and they would have had a chance to retrieve her with more dignity later. The shooting wasn't going to last forever, after all.

As for kids seeing her, far fewer would have seen her if they had simply left her where she was. As it was, they put her right beside the path (before they moved her further away).

Indeed it does seem that the SWAT team put her even more out in the open then where she had originally started. This among other things had the conspiracy theorists saying that it was all fake and that it was a dummy they were dragging all over the place and left it where they did so the news crews would be able to film the kids running past, over, around her body.  

Then they moved her yet again. The footage of them dragging her around has always turned my stomach. I can't even imagine what it was like for her parents seeing that.

Coming from a military background, I can understand why they dragged her the way they did. I'm assuming first responders get similar training to us, and we're taught that you're not supposed to move someone if they're hurt and unconcious, because they may have a back injury that you could make worse by moving them. But, if you have reason to believe that they might still be alive/ able to be revived but you can't give them life saving care where they are, you're supposed to move them without disturbing the body as much as possible. From their perspective, if they had thrown her over their shoulder, they might have worsened an existing back injury. We know now that it was all unnecessary, but at the time they were making split-second decisions.

Regarding moving her body multiple times, I think they just weren't thinking it through. I'm going to guess that at first it was like "she may be alive, get behind cover". Then it was probably like "oh no, the kids are running past/around/over her corpse, maybe we should move it".

But we know that jeffco kind of royally screwed the entire thing up, so while I can understand why they did what they did, I can't say that they were in the right in doing it.

NorThWest wrote:

asloversgo wrote:

Falcolus wrote:

Where did you get this from? Is there more frames? Also is the second photo just a duplicate of the first, because the first does not show up for me.

I found this high quality pic before the last move


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'm not very familiar with the layout of the school. Is that Eric's car by the library?

Guest wrote:

SandraSmit19 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Lodka wrote:

I really find weird the way they just drag her, like she was some kind of bag or something. As Falcolus said before it seems they had a good reason for that, but still it's kind awkward. I can only imagine what Brooks Browns's father thought of it, considering his criticism to the work of the police both prior to the shooting and during it.

Its really not that weird. I get that some see it as disrespectful, but Rachel was definitely dead by that point. Those officers put themselves at risk simply by retrieving her body. Soldiers will drag their dead comrades bodies when in the middle of a war zone. Ultimately getting them out takes precedent over how they are retrieved. Also I think they moved her so kids who escaped wouldn't have to see her laying dead. It may seem cold and harsh, but it was done with the best of intentions.

Yes, but in a warzone you usually only have one chance to retrieve a body, this wasn't a warzone. They could have left her where she was and they would have had a chance to retrieve her with more dignity later. The shooting wasn't going to last forever, after all.

As for kids seeing her, far fewer would have seen her if they had simply left her where she was. As it was, they put her right beside the path (before they moved her further away).

Indeed it does seem that the SWAT team put her even more out in the open then where she had originally started. This among other things had the conspiracy theorists saying that it was all fake and that it was a dummy they were dragging all over the place and left it where they did so the news crews would be able to film the kids running past, over, around her body.  

Then they moved her yet again. The footage of them dragging her around has always turned my stomach. I can't even imagine what it was like for her parents seeing that.

Coming from a military background, I can understand why they dragged her the way they did. I'm assuming first responders get similar training to us, and we're taught that you're not supposed to move someone if they're hurt and unconcious, because they may have a back injury that you could make worse by moving them. But, if you have reason to believe that they might still be alive/ able to be revived but you can't give them life saving care where they are, you're supposed to move them without disturbing the body as much as possible. From their perspective, if they had thrown her over their shoulder, they might have worsened an existing back injury. We know now that it was all unnecessary, but at the time they were making split-second decisions.

Regarding moving her body multiple times, I think they just weren't thinking it through. I'm going to guess that at first it was like "she may be alive, get behind cover". Then it was probably like "oh no, the kids are running past/around/over her corpse, maybe we should move it".

But we know that jeffco kind of royally screwed the entire thing up, so while I can understand why they did what they did, I can't say that they were in the right in doing it.

No that is I believe Zachs car. That is the sr lot. Those empty spaces in the area near the blueish car were Eric and Dylans spots. Dylans Car was in that lot but is not visible in that shot. Erics car was in the JR lot on the other side of the building

[quote="Lizpuff"]

NorThWest wrote:

asloversgo wrote:

Falcolus wrote:

Where did you get this from? Is there more frames? Also is the second photo just a duplicate of the first, because the first does not show up for me.

I found this high quality pic before the last move


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'm not very familiar with the layout of the school. Is that Eric's car by the library?

Guest wrote:

SandraSmit19 wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

Lodka wrote:

I really find weird the way they just drag her, like she was some kind of bag or something. As Falcolus said before it seems they had a good reason for that, but still it's kind awkward. I can only imagine what Brooks Browns's father thought of it, considering his criticism to the work of the police both prior to the shooting and during it.

Its really not that weird. I get that some see it as disrespectful, but Rachel was definitely dead by that point. Those officers put themselves at risk simply by retrieving her body. Soldiers will drag their dead comrades bodies when in the middle of a war zone. Ultimately getting them out takes precedent over how they are retrieved. Also I think they moved her so kids who escaped wouldn't have to see her laying dead. It may seem cold and harsh, but it was done with the best of intentions.

Yes, but in a warzone you usually only have one chance to retrieve a body, this wasn't a warzone. They could have left her where she was and they would have had a chance to retrieve her with more dignity later. The shooting wasn't going to last forever, after all.

As for kids seeing her, far fewer would have seen her if they had simply left her where she was. As it was, they put her right beside the path (before they moved her further away).

Indeed it does seem that the SWAT team put her even more out in the open then where she had originally started. This among other things had the conspiracy theorists saying that it was all fake and that it was a dummy they were dragging all over the place and left it where they did so the news crews would be able to film the kids running past, over, around her body.  

Then they moved her yet again. The footage of them dragging her around has always turned my stomach. I can't even imagine what it was like for her parents seeing that.

Coming from a military background, I can understand why they dragged her the way they did. I'm assuming first responders get similar training to us, and we're taught that you're not supposed to move someone if they're hurt and unconcious, because they may have a back injury that you could make worse by moving them. But, if you have reason to believe that they might still be alive/ able to be revived but you can't give them life saving care where they are, you're supposed to move them without disturbing the body as much as possible. From their perspective, if they had thrown her over their shoulder, they might have worsened an existing back injury. We know now that it was all unnecessary, but at the time they were making split-second decisions.

Regarding moving her body multiple times, I think they just weren't thinking it through. I'm going to guess that at first it was like "she may be alive, get behind cover". Then it was probably like "oh no, the kids are running past/around/over her corpse, maybe we should move it".

But we know that jeffco kind of royally screwed the entire thing up, so while I can understand why they did what they did, I can't say that they were in the right in doing it.

I think the biggest issue here was that something that should have never have been filmed was. Life can be ugly. Columbine was a very ugly moment. I don't blame the swat guys as much as I do the media filming it. Nothing could train you for cleaning up dead kids. I'm sure they had their reasons for moving her as much as they did. Miscommunication , etc. But the fact is that is just an ugly part of life and what happens when things like this happen. BUT it should have never been filmed.

paradisedreams wrote:

I don't think i've ever seen a non-pixely version of the first dragging of Rachel's body, & Richard laying on the bumper just after his rescue. You can almost make out their faces.

Edit: I'm guessing the original gif that I posted yesterday was too big of a file for it to play correctly on forums. So, it's no longer showing up. Here's the exact same gif but it'll just open in another tab. I apologize.

Warning:

deleted

The police have said that they had to move Rachel’s body in order to maneuver the fire truck, which they used as cover to safely retrieve Richard Calstado... who would have died if they didn’t act right then. I’m assuming they moved her back after the first group of kids escaped, to prevent more kids from seeing her. It is disturbing to watch but it was necessary and there wasn’t time or safety to be more considerate, sadly. They were not meaning to be disrespectful and did feel badly about it.

Such a sad sight, but thank you for sharing