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 If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info

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queenfarooq



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PostSubject: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:57 am

There's so many unanswered questions and uncertainties surrounding Columbine. In the realms of reality (no bringing E/D back from the dead as 30 year old men) I'm wondering if you could have just one piece of evidence, information or interview etc what would it be and why? Is it possible to pick just one?
For me it changes all the time but at the top of my list would probably be a complete open and honest interview with Mr Harris. I'd love to know his take on what he believed were the scale of Eric's problems towards the end and while he was growing up? How were things handled in the household and how did he / Eric respond? How did he handle the pipe bomb situation? What does he think of Dylan / the Klebolds? How was Eric punished and how did he respond? What information about Eric has shocked him the most that he wasn't aware of? I think to satisfy my own curiosity i'd like to see how i would interpret Mr Harris.
I don't blame Mr Harris for what happened as in I don't think he would have ever suspected his son would go on a murder spree through the school, but perhaps now with hindsight he can put together some pieces of information that paint a clearer picture of what was going so wrong in his sons life, or maybe he can't. I'd love to know how he coped in the aftermath because out of all the parents I think he probably got had most blame placed on him.

There's so many other pieces of evidence / information I would love to have access to but i'd be interested to know what others think too.


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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:58 am

My first choice is the basement tapes for obvious reason and then the parent depositions which will hopefully be released in 2027. Having an actual interview with the Harrises would be really interesting as well.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
My first choice is the basement tapes and then the parent depositions which will hopefully be released in 2027.

The basement tapes and depositions would be near the top of my list also.
I'd also love to know if the cafeteria surveillance tapes were really conveniently being switched or if they did capture someone placing those bombs. If so i'd like to see that.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:30 pm

Wouldn't we all love to see and know the answer. That part of the day just seems so strange.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:48 pm

I guess the Basement Tapes too: more 'pieces' of their minds in addition to the released journals

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:50 pm

I've thought of something else. Kevin Albert to release what he and Eric talked/discussed in his therapy sessions. That would also be really interesting. There are sooo many things I want to see and know that I cannot pick just one.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:22 pm

Basement tapes, naturally.

I'd also like to pick Mrs Harris' brain about stuff. Her whole understanding and what she thinks about it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Kevin Albert to release what he and Eric talked/discussed in his therapy sessions.

I agree with you on that one. As far as I'm aware, excuse me if I'm wrong but Mr and Mrs Harris tried to get hold of those records at some stage. I have no idea if they got to see them or not. They believed that they were mislead about his problems and wanted to see what he actually said themselves.


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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:34 pm

The Basement Tapes, of course.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:08 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Basement tapes, naturally.

I'd also like to pick Mrs Harris' brain about stuff. Her whole understanding and what she thinks about it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Kevin Albert to release what he and Eric talked/discussed in his therapy sessions.

I agree with you on that one. As far as I'm aware, excuse me if I'm wrong but Mr and Mrs Harris tried to get hold of those records at some stage. I have no idea if they got to see them or not. They believed that they were mislead about his problems and wanted to see what he actually said themselves.

I've heard that too. And I believe Wayne and Kathy have every right to see what exactly went on between Eric and his therapist.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:47 pm

I believe so to. It's their son and if they believe that they were mislead then it's their right to see them. I don't know if they ever did or not. I really hope so.

THEN THE BASEMENT TAPES!

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:55 pm

Exactly! I could be wrong but I don't think they have seen it which is a huge shame for them.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:08 pm

I'm so conflicted with these basement tapes, i'm not 100% sure if i could have access to just one piece of information or evidence i would pick them. The basement tapes seem like a natural choice as it is the only video evidence of the boys interacting with each other alone and may provide enormous insight into why they felt pulling an 'NBK' was the only possibly option they had left in life.
However sometimes I wonder if they would be a disappointing view. Would it just be footage of two teenagers swearing and trying to act cool offering up explanations that just regurgitate what we have already heard from their journals. Having said that though I've always thought perhaps the transcripts we have seen are not complete and maybe some footage was immediately taken out for whatever reason.
I'm really torn between what i would pick, hearing from their parents especially the Harris family or seeing those tapes. Or maybe I would pick something else entirely as i'm sure the basement tapes / parents depositions would only raise even more questions. Maybe it would be wise to just pick something simple like who the hell put those bombs in the cafeteria or why did Robyn have a crush on Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:16 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm so conflicted with these basement tapes, i'm not 100% sure if i could have access to just one piece of information or evidence i would pick them. The basement tapes seem like a natural choice as it is the only video evidence of the boys interacting with each other alone and may provide enormous insight into why they felt pulling an 'NBK' was the only possibly option they had left in life.
However sometimes I wonder if they would be a disappointing view. Would it just be footage of two teenagers swearing and trying to act cool offering up explanations that just regurgitate what we have already heard from their journals. Having said that though I've always thought perhaps the transcripts we have seen are not complete and maybe some footage was immediately taken out for whatever reason.
I'm really torn between what i would pick, hearing from their parents especially the Harris family or seeing those tapes. Or maybe I would pick something else entirely as i'm sure the basement tapes / parents depositions would only raise even more questions. Maybe it would be wise to just pick something simple like who the hell put those bombs in the cafeteria or why did Robyn have a crush on Dylan.


If what has been discussed and printed about them throughout the years is entirely true, this group of tapes spans more than three hours. There is absolutely no way on earth those transcripts cover that amount of time, even if there were portions that had no dialogue. I personally believe the journals we have access to are not in their entirety, either.

The fact that the largest amount of text we have transcribed from these tapes comes from journalists for TIME during a private viewing should also always be kept in mind. I DOUBT that they were allowed to rewind any tapes where they missed something or got confused about something; they just had to jot down what they heard and then make it as intelligible/comprehensible as possible for the article. And someone within law enforcement was "running the show", so, how does anyone who was there REALLY know whether or not they were viewing a truncated copy from the "master" tapes?
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:34 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If what has been discussed and printed about them throughout the years is entirely true, this group of tapes spans more than three hours. There is absolutely no way on earth those transcripts cover that amount of time, even if there were portions that had no dialogue. I personally believe the journals we have access to are not in their entirety, either.

I completely agree. According to information on 'acolumbine site' Time magazine stated there were three tapes with running times of 2 hours, 40 minuets and 22 minuets.
This is slightly off topic but when I was at University we had to make tapes for 'counselling sessions' which ran for around 30 minuets and was just two people doing a practice session, pauses etc were not uncommon but trying to write a transcript for a tape took forever and it was not uncommon to think 'oh no i have 5 pages and i'm only just half way through a tape.' So I feel there is no way even with pauses / time to show of weapons etc that the transcripts we have are full ones, it's not possible in my opinion.
Then that raises the whole question of well what were they talking about / doing on the tapes if they ran for that amount of time?
Like you also suggested perhaps the Time magazine people were sat down and just watched everything straight through and had to take notes on what they could and these were things that just ended up getting written down.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:08 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If what has been discussed and printed about them throughout the years is entirely true, this group of tapes spans more than three hours. There is absolutely no way on earth those transcripts cover that amount of time, even if there were portions that had no dialogue. I personally believe the journals we have access to are not in their entirety, either.

I completely agree. According to information on 'acolumbine site' Time magazine stated there were three tapes with running times of 2 hours, 40 minuets and 22 minuets.
This is slightly off topic but when I was at University we had to make tapes for 'counselling sessions' which ran for around 30 minuets and was just two people doing a practice session, pauses etc were not uncommon but trying to write a transcript for a tape took forever and it was not uncommon to think 'oh no i have 5 pages and i'm only just half way through a tape.' So I feel there is no way even with pauses / time to show of weapons etc that the transcripts we have are full ones, it's not possible in my opinion.
Then that raises the whole question of well what were they talking about / doing on the tapes if they ran for that amount of time?
Like you also suggested perhaps the Time magazine people were sat down and just watched everything straight through and had to take notes on what they could and these were things that just ended up getting written down.

Off topic or not, I think that the example you gave about what you did at university is very telling and important regarding this point about these tapes. In the past I've read different phone call transcripts, and it'll be explained in one form of narrative or another that "during a 10 minute phone call such and such was divulged", and the written transcript will be incredibly lengthy, considering.

I remember that there was this transcript of a phone call between one of my favorite musicians and a photographer/journalist while he was laid up in a hospital, and it was also available in audio form. There were tons of pauses and lots of connection interference (landline phone), and the transcript still made it seem like they were on the phone for an hour, when it was maybe 15 minutes.

Yes, I don't think the TIME journalists were able to transcribe the entirety of what they heard; I also don't find that to be possible. And I still wouldn't believe hook, line, and sinker that they saw and heard the entirety of them, either. I wouldn't be surprised if law enforcement compiled clips from the original tapes and showed what they wanted to these people during these viewings. Of course I don't know that, but I honestly wouldn't doubt it. I am not a "conspiracy theorist", but I don't instantaneously believe anything about anyone or any situation at face value, either. Particularly when there's been lots of evidence of corruption (not only the words from Mr. and Mrs. Brown, either). Just because it's in print or televised doesn't mean there's an inkling of actual truth in it. Doesn't mean there isn't, either.

What are they doing on those tapes, and what are they saying for that amount of time on those tapes? I think that's very important, and it's possible that something to do with that is also being hidden.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:54 pm

I would choose the unedited 911 call over the Basement Tapes. To get a pinhole view into the killers actions and dialogue that day would trump anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:04 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I remember that there was this transcript of a phone call between one of my favorite musicians and a photographer/journalist while he was laid up in a hospital, and it was also available in audio form. There were tons of pauses and lots of connection interference (landline phone), and the transcript still made it seem like they were on the phone for an hour, when it was maybe 15 minutes.

Yes, I don't think the TIME journalists were able to transcribe the entirety of what they heard; I also don't find that to be possible. And I still wouldn't believe hook, line, and sinker that they saw and heard the entirety of them, either. I wouldn't be surprised if law enforcement compiled clips from the original tapes and showed what they wanted to these people during these viewings. Of course I don't know that, but I honestly wouldn't doubt it. I am not a "conspiracy theorist", but I don't instantaneously believe anything about anyone or any situation at face value, either. Particularly when there's been lots of evidence of corruption (not only the words from Mr. and Mrs. Brown, either). Just because it's in print or televised doesn't mean there's an inkling of actual truth in it. Doesn't mean there isn't, either.

What are they doing on those tapes, and what are they saying for that amount of time on those tapes? I think that's very important, and it's possible that something to do with that is also being hidden.

I agree with what you said. There's no way that what we're given as the official transcript is all that there is, it's too short. I'm not a "conspiracy theorist" myself but realistically looking at it, there's not a hope that what we have spans three hours, not even close.

People seem to say that seeing them would answer a lot of questions, and I believe that they would but I also think that it may raise a whole new batch of questions. I can understand why they won't release them, we haven't been told every last detail and maybe showing the tapes and everything would, first off, draw attention to the case again and secondly make people second guess what they thought that they knew. As much as I'd love to see them I don't think that we ever will.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:04 pm

Basement Tapes, but of course... But since I can't hold my breath for that, and much of the Jeffco stuff that is under lock and key, I would like to see the Klebold's come out with a book, about Dylan, their side of the story. I would also say
that it would be great to have them interviewed on Oprah (along with other parents of school shooters) but I believe Oprah has been persuaded to not focus on the crux of the problem - the killers. School (and now public) shooting sprees are on the rise and bullying is a huge topic of discussion in schools so it's time to stop avoiding 'the problem' and take a look at it. It would be beneficial for the Klebolds and the world. I would say the Harris' too but I don't think they've given any sign that they'd like to talk. Sue Klebold has done so and I think she wants to but is scared of the repercussions. It's been 14 years now.. enough time has passed. Anyway, that would be my wish.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:34 pm

If I could have access to one piece of evidence in full, it would have to be the Basement Tapes. I really want to see the part where Eric takes a drink of Jack Daniels and winces that always sounded funny to me. In all honestly though, seeing those tapes would bring an element of humanity to them, something we just can't get from sound bites or transcripts regardless of how well they are written. Just to be able to see Eric and Dylan interacting together, alone with no one else around. To be able to see the emotion in their faces and hear it in their voices would also add a level of humility to them as well. In the end, I just want to yell at the tapes and tell them not to do it and to just get some help. That's the closet I'll ever get to actually talking to them.

The second piece of evidence would be their journals. I remember reading that they weren't released in full so that kind of annoys me. It always makes me wonder if LE is trying to hide something honestly.

Third would be an interview with Eric's father. I just want to know what he thought about all of Eric's problems and how he was going about handling them. The Harris's have remained the quietest on the matter so of course it natural for me to want to know what the have been thinking about.

And the last one I can think of right now would be the notes that Eric's therapist was taking while he was seeing him. I just don't understand how Kevin Albert who's suppose to be a professional would let a teenager tell him he's homicidal and not see that something be done about it. I also heard Dylan attended a couple of Eric therapy sessions as well, it would be nice to know how that went too.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:11 pm

@Lifetime wrote:
If I could have access to one piece of evidence in full, it would have to be the Basement Tapes. I really want to see the part where Eric takes a drink of Jack Daniels and winces that always sounded funny to me. In all honestly though, seeing those tapes would bring an element of humanity to them, something we just can't get from sound bites or transcripts regardless of how well they are written. Just to be able to see Eric and Dylan interacting together, alone with no one else around. To be able to see the emotion in their faces and hear it in their voices would also add a level of humility to them as well. In the end, I just want to yell at the tapes and tell them not to do it and to just get some help. That's the closet I'll ever get to actually talking to them.

Humanity..of lack thereof. The bravado, the callousness, the stupidity. Dylan adjusting his weapon while, oops, it's pointed at Eric. The boys accidentally knocking over a soda pop can while in the midst of their excited raging only to quickly clean up the mess like good little boys. The whole gamut of their joint interaction would be like being on a roller coaster of emotion with a numb finish. Course, how much of it would just be the Army of Two just acting for their audience? The psychological information that could be gleaned from it would be fascinating and could be put to good use. Otoh, so much bad could come from it with those that aspire to be like them more than ever. Alas, Jeffco has the perfect excuse to keep them sealed for eons.

Quote :
The second piece of evidence would be their journals. I remember reading that they weren't released in full so that kind of annoys me. It always makes me wonder if LE is trying to hide something honestly.

I didn't know that there was more to the journals. Very interesting. I'll be adding that to my list! I definitely do think they are hiding things. After fourteen years, why not, at the very least, unredact Dylan's Objects de Affection so we don't have to keep revisiting that topic in a thread. Inquiring minds want to know. afro


Quote :
And the last one I can think of right now would be the notes that Eric's therapist was taking while he was seeing him. I just don't understand how Kevin Albert who's suppose to be a professional would let a teenager tell him he's homicidal and not see that something be done about it. I also heard Dylan attended a couple of Eric therapy sessions as well, it would be nice to know how that went too.

Eric and Dylan had some therapy sessions together with Albert? Where did you hear that? Albert must've been pretty shrewd to have shut down and protect himself the way he did. I would think the amount of evidence he holds would be imperative to hand over especially to the parents. I wonder what happened to him. Agreed, his notes would be a really insightful read.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:17 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
Eric and Dylan had some therapy sessions together with Albert? Where did you hear that? Albert must've been pretty shrewd to have shut down and protect himself the way he did. I would think the amount of evidence he holds would be imperative to hand over especially to the parents. I wonder what happened to him. Agreed, his notes would be a really insightful read.

I'm sure it is in Kass' book that they had therapy sessions together, i'll have a look tomorrow. I think it is also mentioned that Albert talked to Eric alone when discussing his medication. This is all from memory though but i'm sure that's what I read.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:30 pm


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Humanity..of lack thereof. The bravado, the callousness, the stupidity. Dylan adjusting his weapon while, oops, it's pointed at Eric. The boys accidentally knocking over a soda pop can while in the midst of their excited raging only to quickly clean up the mess like good little boys. The whole gamut of their joint interaction would be like being on a roller coaster of emotion with a numb finish. Course, how much of it would just be the Army of Two just acting for their audience? The psychological information that could be gleaned from it would be fascinating and could be put to good use. Otoh, so much bad could come from it with those that aspire to be like them more than ever. Alas, Jeffco has the perfect excuse to keep them sealed for eons.

That was funny. I mostly want to see it because it would be nice to see Eric and Dylan interacting together. To hear them speak and watch their mannerisms would be the closest will ever get to being in a room with them. How much of it was just acting? Who knows maybe all, maybe some, maybe non. Knowing that people were going to see the video I'm sure they were trying to put on a show at times but, when it comes down to it, that's what they wanted us to see so be it.


Quote :
I didn't know that there was more to the journals. Very interesting. I'll be adding that to my list! I definitely do think they are hiding things. After fourteen years, why not, at the very least, unredact Dylan's Objects de Affection so we don't have to keep revisiting that topic in a thread. Inquiring minds want to know. afro

I'm pretty sure there was more to the journals. I remember reading that they weren't released in full though, I wouldn't be able to tell you where I read that. I'm horrible at keeping attract of information and it's not like it would matter my old computer crapped out on me. I do know I read it from a source of information I felt I could trust so hopefully that counts for something. That and there is about 5,000 pages of evidence that's never been released either, so I wouldn't be surprised if more journal pages showed up.



Quote :
Eric and Dylan had some therapy sessions together with Albert? Where did you hear that? Albert must've been pretty shrewd to have shut down and protect himself the way he did. I would think the amount of evidence he holds would be imperative to hand over especially to the parents. I wonder what happened to him. Agreed, his notes would be a really insightful read.

I too believe it was in Kass's book. Since he doesn't have a index I'd have to try and skim through the book to find it. I also remember reading about how they stopped doing therapy sessions with both people at the same time because they thought one person could be influencing the others answers.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:55 pm

The basement tapes.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:00 am

The photographs taken during the search of the Harris en Klebold residences.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:04 pm

Hmmm...shit...I suck at choosing!! I just want it all! Basement tapes, 'The Nixon Tape', ALL the documents UNCENSORED...(was it really Marla Foust etc...)the complete 911-call, interviews with friends, family and all the people involved, because when reading Jeffco's BS, it just makes me scream. When interviewing people involved they just sometimes forget to ask the right questions....Incompetent bastards!!

And if all that was available for me to research...I dare to dream a little further. What about Dylan's deleted harddrive? Sigh....dream on...

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:03 am

@tragedy79 wrote:

And if all that was available for me to research...I dare to dream a little further. What about Dylan's deleted harddrive? Sigh....dream on...

This!
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:28 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
Eric and Dylan had some therapy sessions together with Albert? Where did you hear that? Albert must've been pretty shrewd to have shut down and protect himself the way he did. I would think the amount of evidence he holds would be imperative to hand over especially to the parents. I wonder what happened to him. Agreed, his notes would be a really insightful read.

I'm sure it is in Kass' book that they had therapy sessions together, i'll have a look tomorrow. I think it is also mentioned that Albert talked to Eric alone when discussing his medication. This is all from memory though but i'm sure that's what I read.

I found this in Kass' book "I sometimes see him and Eric together, I like to meet apart too so I can discuss Eric's meds and his shrink meetings." This quote was from Andrea Sanchez who was a diversion counselor.
I think i got mixed up and was thinking of her instead of Albert.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:23 pm

That is a tough call since there is DEFINTELY more than just ONE piece of evidence that I would want
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Jakeo33



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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:28 am

The goodbye basement tape for sure.
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eli27

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PostSubject: Re: If you could have access to ONE piece of Columbine Info   Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:18 am

It's a tough call, but I gotta go for the basement tapes. I reckon I would get the most insight out of those.

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