Am I the only one utterly disappointed in the book?

I read it tonight and just had to vent.
To start, let me say that my sympathy for the parent's and their huge loss and their pain is never ending. I will always feel sympathy for them.
And parts of the book were nice, such as stories from Dylan's childhood and ordinary moments with his family.
It's sweet to hear those because only a family can tell such things.
The new pictures are a gift as these are the last new pictures of Dylan that we will ever see.
However, I wondered if the book shouldn't be called "Let's just blame Eric" because  over and over she does exactly that.
There is even an entire chapter dedicated to what a psychopath Eric was.
Over and over, he gets the blame while Dylan is presented as the tragic victim of a brain dysfunction.

The blaming never stops really.
Eric prodded Dylan into feeling and expressing anger in the basement tapes.
Eric took advantage of Dylan's depression and suicidal thoughts for his own advantage.
Eric was a toxic influence on Dylan.
Eric made Dylan's problems worse.
Columbine was all about suicide for Dylan while Eric probably didn't even want to die. He just wanted to go there and kill.

Many things were ignored like Eric expressly experiencing anxiety and depression and suicidal thoughts over a year before Columbine by his own admission.

I noticed nothing was written about nasty things Dylan wrote and said such as " They all need to die so bad... Now they will. Those little pigs will feel the bullets."

And "In 26 hours our judgment day will begin. Necessary, nerve-wracking and fun." and "Have fun"! in the  timeline for the day right after the attack was to begin.

Also ignored was Dylan actually tried to pull Isaiah out from under the table on 4/20.He didn't merely call his racist names and that was all as the book suggested. The full account of Dylan's participation in the killing of Isaiah was severely edited by his Mom.

 All this is utterly ignored. I bet that Eric's parents would have some interesting things to say about Dylan if they chose to speak.

 The book claims that Dylan said "Eric is crazy" but there is no real explanation as to why they ultimately allowed their kid to keep up the friendship with said crazy kid but go over to said crazy kids house almost every day for months on end.

I guess you can't expect anything else from a Mom to try to portray her son in the best possible light but I felt like I was reading a book by a women who is still half in denial.

 The overall impression given was that Dylan was a wonderful kid who just became mentally ill and wasn't able to think clearly so he chose 4/20, while Eric was just an evil, toxic , hopeless psychopath.
Pretty much Cullen 2.0.

I feel that I waited years for something and only ended up horribly, utterly let down by what was put out.

Please, somebody, tell me I'm not alone here.

I'm getting my copy tomorrow hopefully. I'm actually surprised to hear how much she talks about Eric. I expected her to mention him of course, but to hear there's a whole chapter is definitley surprising. I do personally believe Columbine was an almost theatrical form of suicide for Dylan. I don't think Eric was nearly as suicidal as Dylan was. However to say Dylan wasnt enjoying the killing or that Eric didnt want to die is incorrect. The boys shared the same feelings, but they were balanced different individually. Dylan was willing to kill if it meant he could die, while Eric was willing to die if it meant he could kill. The overlap came from their shared hatred of society, people, life, and themselves.

It shouldn't shock anyone though that she puts most of the blame on Eric. Even after 17 years it still has to be hard for Sue to accept that her child was a mass murderer. I mean even Erics own parents bought into the psychopath view of their son. Blaming Eric and calling him a psycho is almost the easy way out of it all. "He was an evil monster and an expert manipulator who would have snapped eventually no matter what and couldn't have been stopped" allows the parents to ease their guilt and keeps the, from having to dig deeper to truly answer the only question that's left to answer: Why did this happen?

I'm let down as well. I think we can all agree that both Eric and Dylan suffered from mental illness, but it feels like she's using Dylan's as a crutch and Eric's as the reason this all happened.  

I wonder, since Sue mentioned in the interview that she speaks with the Harris family on occasion, if they had any idea what she would be saying about Eric in her book. She showed them a deal of respect in the interview by not speaking about them, and the interview only really mentioned that she thought he was polite. I was so hoping that she wouldn't latch onto the psychopath idea in her book.

Sue said in her NPR radio Interview today:

"I have not deeply explored Eric too much. I havent extensively looked at Eric."

"Their friendship to me seemed to be perfectly appropriate"

"I had met Eric's parents. I had been in their home"

"There was nothing that I ever saw, other than the [Jan. 30 '98] arrest, when they got together and stole something when they were in junior year of high school. There was nothing I ever saw that indicated that they were, that either one of them, was dangerous or ill, or someone that I didn't want my son to be with"

"There was one incident in the summer when I saw Eric lose his temper at a soccer game and I remember thinking that his behavior, at that moment, was completely inappropriate but I did not, you know, alarm bells didn't go off and say life and death this person is a threat to someone's safety, that didn't cross my mind, all I thought of was, Gee, this kid really acted like a jerk, which young boys tend to do sometimes"

We have heard only from Sue about her son Dylan. She may sugarcoat a little bit but she has admitted that Dylan was an equal partner in the massacre.


I agree ... it would be very helpful to hear from Wayne or Kathy Harris about their son Eric. It would be extremely helpful if we had the depositions or a book by the Harris' where we could hear more about Eric's life progression.

I  want to thank Freezing Moon and Switch so much for their support.
I was afraid to even write this post, afraid that nobody else would agree or people might even be upset at me for how I feel about the book so your comments mean a lot to me.

 SororityAlpha,
Those comments are diametrically opposed to what she says about Eric in her book.

Nirvana92 wrote:

I'm getting my copy tomorrow hopefully. I'm actually surprised to hear how much she talks about Eric. I expected her to mention him of course, but to hear there's a whole chapter is definitley surprising. I do personally believe Columbine was an almost theatrical form of suicide for Dylan. I don't think Eric was nearly as suicidal as Dylan was. However to say

Dylan wasnt enjoying the killing or that Eric didnt want to die is incorrect. The boys shared the same feelings, but they were balanced different individually. Dylan was willing to kill if it meant he could die, while Eric was willing to die if it meant he could kill. The overlap came from their shared hatred of society, people, life, and themselves.

It shouldn't shock anyone though that she puts most of the blame on Eric. Even after 17 years it still has to be hard for Sue to accept that her child was a mass murderer. I mean even Erics own parents bought into the psychopath view of their son. Blaming Eric and calling him a psycho is almost the easy way out of it all. "He was an evil monster and an expert manipulator who would have snapped eventually no matter what and couldn't have been stopped" allows the parents to ease their guilt and keeps the, from having to dig deeper to truly answer the only question that's left to answer: Why did this happen?

Nirvana, as I have pointed out before, we don't actually know or have any proof that Eric's parents believe that about their son.
All we have is speculation from the Mausers that they do.
As LPorter pointed out a few days ago Wayne Harris even told the author of The Hour I first believed that he didn't have any answers.

How do we know that Dylan didn't make Eric worse? How do we know that Dylan wasn't a toxic influence on Eric?
Personally, I think they made each other worse. They reinforced each others rage, misery and hopeless world view.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Personally, I think they made each other worse. They reinforced each others rage, misery and hopeless world view.

I agree with you

Yes, SororityAlpha, as well as the only things I pointed out scattered throughout the book.

I believe it was the other way around. I believe Dylan was the troubled and mentally ill one who made Eric worse. I believe NBK was Dylan's idea. He wrote about it first in his journal. HE was the one who wanted to die to begin with not Eric.

It is a FACT that Eric copied Dylan with many things. Eric was not the leader. He copied Dylan's taste in music, stickers Dylan had on his car and clothes that Dylan wore. He referred to Dylan as his 'best friend'. Dylan, on the other hand, wanted to go on a shooting spree with Zack Heckler, not Eric. He just settled for Eric because Zack got a girlfriend. Dylan's own Mother said she would not have considered Eric one of Dylan's closest friends. Though Eric thought of Dylan as his 'best friend'.

Like I said in one of the other threads, there is not one shred of proof to support that Eric thought of the idea or was the 'mastermind'. All of Eric's hate websites/behavioral problems came AFTER he was friends with Dylan. Yet Dylan was writing in his journal about killing people and himself.

More proof to back up what I am saying is hints Eric left behind that he wasn't sure he even wanted to go through with this. Saying things along the lines of how it could have possibly been prevented, crying over old friends and 'happier times', Eric actually thinking that his Mother wouldn't miss him if he didn't bond with her anymore. How sad is that? He actually believed if he didn't spend time with his parents in the last few weeks that it would be easier to get over his death?

Dylan though? He didn't care what this was going to do to his parents. He said it's his life and he'll do what he wants with it. He showed no sympathy and no remorse towards his own parents, Eric did.

I could go on and on.

I honestly do not understand how anyone could look at this, with all that we know, and actually believe Eric was this big bad leader who pressured sad, depressed Dylan into doing it. How much more proof do you need to realize that Dylan was the one who came up with the idea first? Dylan was the one who wanted to kill people and wanted to die. That Eric is the one who changed after becoming friends with Dylan.

All of this is overlooked. Why? Because Dylan drew page after page of hearts and whined about how sad and depressed he was and how life wasn't fair and he wanted a girlfriend but couldn't get one. Because he wrote poems and constantly talked of suicide and how he wanted his life to end. Yea, well he also wrote in that same journal that he wanted to kill as many people as he possibly could.

All the blame gets put on Eric because he left behind a hate filled journal that was nothing more than him putting on a show. How he acts on the Basement Tapes and how he acted towards the girl on prom night totally contradict the things he said in his journal.

If 4/20 didn't happen, you know what I believe would have happened? I believe that Eric could have actually went on to have a normal life. I believe Dylan would have killed himself. That's what all of this was about from the get go. It was a mission for Dylan to kill himself and he used Eric to get it.

I don't for a second believe that Eric was how he portrayed himself in his journal. He wanted friends. He wanted people to like him. Look at how easily he went back to being friends with Brooks. Brooks walked up to him and asked him if he wanted to let bygones be bygones and Eric immediately agreed and they resumed their friendship. Does that seem like someone who was filled with hate or does it seem like someone who was desperate to have people like him?

Yes, I know that in the end Eric went through with the massacre and killed innocent children. But from the outside looking in, from my perspective, I believe that Eric followed Dylan's lead and not the other way around. The facts are right there in front of you. Dylan is the one who brought it up first and no matter what anyone says, there's no way to deny that.

If anyone can come up with some real proof that Eric was the leader and the mastermind and that it was his idea, then I'm all ears. And I do not consider Eric's journal, written for an audience, a whole year after Dylan talked about killing people as proof.

Thanks so much for the depth of your insight and your well written, well thought out post Jenn. I greatly appreciate it and agree with much of what you wrote.

sororityalpha wrote:

Are these the parts you are referring to?


From Chapter 12:

Based on his journals, many of the experts I’ve spoken to feel comfortable saying that Eric displayed the traits and characteristics of a psychopath. As with Dylan, a true posthumous diagnosis is, of course, not possible. (In any case, because the adolescent brain is still developing, a formal diagnosis of psychopathy is only possible after the subject turns eighteen.) Even so, Eric certainly satisfies a great number of the diagnostic markers associated with this personality disorder.

Psychopathy is characterized by diminished empathy and provocative behavior. Most important, psychopaths (also called sociopaths; some experts differentiate between the two, the majority do not) don’t have a conscience, the part of the mind that enables us to feel guilt. They lie without compunction and are often highly skilled manipulators. There are some psychologists and psychiatrists who believe that psychopaths can be successfully treated. The ones I spoke to are not convinced. Not every psychopath is a criminal or a sadist, but if they do move in that direction, as Eric did, they can become highly dangerous.

*snip*

Honestly, nothing I see here is that bad.  She doesn't call Eric evil or inhuman.

Have you ever wondered why Eric's parents haven't come out to defend him like you constantly do? Because they know he was a vile creature, that's why.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

Have you ever wondered why Eric's parents haven't come out to defend him like you constantly do? Because they know he was a vile creature, that's why.

I'm not sure if you're talking to me or not, but..

I'm not 'defending' him. I'm calling it how I see it (from my perspective). I do not believe that it was Eric's idea. All the evidence points to it being Dylan's. I am well aware of the fact that Eric was a murderer. I'm not a 'fan' of his. I don't love him, think he's God or think there is any justification for what he and Dylan did. I have taken all the evidence that I've read over the last 4 years and am pointing out why I believe that Eric was the follower.

No Jenn,
I think that Radioctive_Clothing was speaking to me,not you. My apologies if I am wrong.

First of all, I do not believe that Eric was a vile creature
 You have the right to your beliefs about him but so do I.

Secondly, there are a thousand reasons why  Eric's parents don't come out and speak. Very practical ones ranging from fear of new harassment to possible new lawsuits to the severe emotional distress doing so would probably cause them. I seriously doubt Eric's parents think of him in anywhere near the terms you do.

PaintItBlack wrote:

Nirvana92 wrote:

I'm getting my copy tomorrow hopefully. I'm actually surprised to hear how much she talks about Eric. I expected her to mention him of course, but to hear there's a whole chapter is definitley surprising. I do personally believe Columbine was an almost theatrical form of suicide for Dylan. I don't think Eric was nearly as suicidal as Dylan was. However to say

Dylan wasnt enjoying the killing or that Eric didnt want to die is incorrect. The boys shared the same feelings, but they were balanced different individually. Dylan was willing to kill if it meant he could die, while Eric was willing to die if it meant he could kill. The overlap came from their shared hatred of society, people, life, and themselves.

It shouldn't shock anyone though that she puts most of the blame on Eric. Even after 17 years it still has to be hard for Sue to accept that her child was a mass murderer. I mean even Erics own parents bought into the psychopath view of their son. Blaming Eric and calling him a psycho is almost the easy way out of it all. "He was an evil monster and an expert manipulator who would have snapped eventually no matter what and couldn't have been stopped" allows the parents to ease their guilt and keeps the, from having to dig deeper to truly answer the only question that's left to answer: Why did this happen?

Nirvana, as I have pointed out before, we don't actually know or have any proof that Eric's parents believe that about their son.
All we have is speculation from the Mausers that they do.
As LPorter pointed out a few days ago Wayne Harris even told the author of The Hour I first believed that he didn't have any answers.

I'm aware of that. The problem is that they HAVEN'T spoken up so all we have to go on is those two encounters. Id like to think that Sue reached out to the Harrises before writing those things about Eric. She just seems like the kind of person who wouldn't want to "railroad" someone unfairly. I can't prove that she did, but if so then it would seem to imply that Erics parents at least consider psychopathy to be a legit possibility. That is all speculation of course, but we know that at some point she talked to the Harisses in the years since Columbine happened. I just can't see Sue beating down the memory of another persons child without getting their take on it all first.

It's pretty easy to figure out what the Harris's think or thought about their son. If they don't come out and defend him, then he was insane way before Dylan. Staying quiet especially after this would tell me all I need to know.

Quote :

I'm aware of that. The problem is that they HAVEN'T spoken up so all we have to go on is those two encounters. Id like to think that Sue reached out to the Harrises before writing those things about Eric. She just seems like the kind of person who wouldn't want to "railroad" someone unfairly. I can't prove that she did, but if so then it would seem to imply that Erics parents at least consider psychopathy to be a legit possibility. That is all speculation of course, but we know that at some point she talked to the Harisses in the years since Columbine happened. I just can't see Sue beating down the memory of another persons child without getting their take on it all first.

Daniel Mauser's mother wrote:

They seemed genuinely mystified by wht had happened to their son. They seemed to rather readily accept that he was a psychopath. They didn’t know how he became so. They said what we’ve heard in the media, that he “fooled them” and fooled the psychologist who was treating him. They felt mislead by the psychologist who told them not to be concerned about a trenchcoat, that it was “only a coat” and that he apparently regarded Eric’s problems as minor.

When your kid does something awful, it is easier to believe that he did it because he had some kind of incurable brain problem, and not because of anything that you did or didn't do as a parent.

I wish Wayne and Kathy would speak out. They have hid for so long... Come out, come out where ever you are!

I'm disappointed to hear that the book isn't as good as I was hoping it would be. I'm sure I'll read it, but I guess I'm not in much of a hurry now. Thank you though, everyone, for your thoughts on it.

sororityalpha wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

Personally, I think they made each other worse. They reinforced each others rage, misery and hopeless world view.

I agree with you

My opinion of the relationship is that it was a synergistic one; that is, by themselves, neither one of them was as harmful or prone to real violence or true rage, but like two drugs interacting in an unseen way, the effect was magnified greater than the sum of what the two were capable of. It is a one-in-a-million relationship, and not in a good way. Columbine, like many other tragedies before (and since), was the end sum of many different things and circumstances; if even ONE of them changed or were altered in any way, it likely would not have happened. The unusual friendship between these two volatile personalities was one of the main threads obviously in this story.

Sane One wrote:

It's pretty easy to figure out what the Harris's think or thought about their son. If they don't come out and defend him, then he was insane way before Dylan. Staying quiet especially after this would tell me all I need to know.

You must get your assumptions wrong about people all of the time. Especially if you base your opinions on what people don't say. You have no real proof backing up that Eric was the one who came up with the idea. So far the only thing you've said is you base it on stuff he wrote in his journal (a whole year after Dylan carried on about killing people) and the fact that his parents are trying to get on with their lives and don't wish to speak publicly about their son.

So basically, you've got nothing?

PaintItBlack wrote:

How do we know that Dylan didn't make Eric worse? How do we know that Dylan wasn't a toxic influence on Eric?
Personally, I think they made each other worse. They reinforced each others rage, misery and hopeless world view.

No doubt Dylan "validated" Eric's thoughts & in turn help manifest the ultimate. I'm on board with Eric being the most toxic catalyst, but it took two to tango.. as most all of agree they were the "perfect storm" together.

A lot of people who came in contact with Dylan said he came off as a shy follower. It's not an assumption, it's facts. We will never know who kick started everything but going off all the shit we have, it's reasonable to assume Eric kick started everything and if the Harris's still don't come out, it only strengthens the stance Eric was a complete insane psycho.

My mother and father would come to my defense in a heartbeat and not just put up with lie after lie, unless of course those so called lies were actual facts. Then there wouldn't be anything to defend.

It doesn't even have to be the media, just have somebody speak on their behalf to either confirm or deny everything that has been said about their son.

We don't live forever, soon they'll both be gone (hopefully not too soon) and we'll be left with the same thing we have now, nothing.

From the Rocky Mountain News (1999-10-18):

It was, in most ways, an ordinary suburban cookout.

About 30 friends and neighbors gathered around a barbecue pit at the end of a cul-de-sac in a Jefferson County subdivision. Karen Good remembers "a very nice little get-together."

It was a Friday evening, after the Columbine High homecoming victory in September, with dips and chips and breads and, for the kids, s'mores cooked over a bonfire.

The special guests were Wayne and Kathy Harris, a quiet couple who live two doors away from the Goods on a tidy street of two-story homes with cedar-shingle roofs. Some neighbors met the Harrises for the first time. All tried to make them feel welcome.

Nobody asked about their son Eric, who had slaughtered a dozen Columbine classmates and one teacher with his friend Dylan Klebold on April 20, then killed himself. That subject was approached only indirectly, politely, by neighbors who told the couple, "We don't hate you. We want you to live here. We're glad you're still part of the neighborhood."

"I think that meant a lot to them," Karen Good said.

[...]

"Wayne and Kathy Harris have been devastated by what their son Eric did," the family's civil lawyers said in a statement Friday. "They continue to grieve for all of the victims and their families.

"Hopefully, there will come a time when they feel they are ready to speak publicly about their son and the horrible acts that he committed. But now is just not that time."

PaintItBlack wrote:

I  want to thank Freezing Moon and Switch so much for their support.
I was afraid to even write this post, afraid that nobody else would agree or people might even be upset at me for how I feel about the book so your comments mean a lot to me.

No problem.  I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that she is still clinging to the hope that Dylan was victimized by Eric and that he was talked into doing what he did.  This passage is particularly disturbing:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

LPorter101 wrote:

From the Rocky Mountain News (1999-10-18):

It was, in most ways, an ordinary suburban cookout.

About 30 friends and neighbors gathered around a barbecue pit at the end of a cul-de-sac in a Jefferson County subdivision. Karen Good remembers "a very nice little get-together."

It was a Friday evening, after the Columbine High homecoming victory in September, with dips and chips and breads and, for the kids, s'mores cooked over a bonfire.

The special guests were Wayne and Kathy Harris, a quiet couple who live two doors away from the Goods on a tidy street of two-story homes with cedar-shingle roofs. Some neighbors met the Harrises for the first time. All tried to make them feel welcome.

Nobody asked about their son Eric, who had slaughtered a dozen Columbine classmates and one teacher with his friend Dylan Klebold on April 20, then killed himself. That subject was approached only indirectly, politely, by neighbors who told the couple, "We don't hate you. We want you to live here. We're glad you're still part of the neighborhood."

"I think that meant a lot to them," Karen Good said.

[...]

"Wayne and Kathy Harris have been devastated by what their son Eric did," the family's civil lawyers said in a statement Friday. "They continue to grieve for all of the victims and their families.

"Hopefully, there will come a time when they feel they are ready to speak publicly about their son and the horrible acts that he committed. But now is just not that time."

Hard to imagine this all occurred just less than half a year after Columbine.

Freezingmoon wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I  want to thank Freezing Moon and Switch so much for their support.
I was afraid to even write this post, afraid that nobody else would agree or people might even be upset at me for how I feel about the book so your comments mean a lot to me.

No problem.  I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that she is still clinging to the hope that Dylan was victimized by Eric and that he was talked into doing what he did.  This passage is particularly disturbing:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As a professional in the field, I really don't know what to think about Dr. Langeman, to be perfectly friggin honest.

Sane One wrote:

It's pretty easy to figure out what the Harris's think or thought about their son. If they don't come out and defend him, then he was insane way before Dylan. Staying quiet especially after this would tell me all I need to know.

I'm sorry Sane One but them not speaking out doesn't mean anything of the sort.
This is a family who has been through the hell of losing their son,dealing with what he did, going through 5 years of lawsuits, dealing with the worlds nastiness and judgment towards them.
Just because Sue now feels up to speaking out and dealing with all that doesn't mean Eric's parents do or even should. Yes, I'd love to hear from them but  after all they've been through, they probably just want to be left in peace.I think I would too.
I don't think you can fairly conclude anything about the way they feel about their son because  they haven't spoken out like people want them too.

Freezingmoon wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

I  want to thank Freezing Moon and Switch so much for their support.
I was afraid to even write this post, afraid that nobody else would agree or people might even be upset at me for how I feel about the book so your comments mean a lot to me.

No problem.  I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that she is still clinging to the hope that Dylan was victimized by Eric and that he was talked into doing what he did.  This passage is particularly disturbing:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

FreezingMoon, I agree and  since she is a Mom, I can understand that but if that is where she is still at mentally and emotionally, I'm not sure how fair it is to Eric and his parents or how accurate a portrait she is painting of events. I also recall no evidence that Dylan tried to drift away and Eric went to get him back in line during the shooting.
The only thinking of that sort I  know of is the "You're still with me? We're still going to do this right?" comment heard outside the library doors and there is not a shred of evidence to reveal which  one said that to the other.
That could have  been Dylan saying that to Eric for all anybody knows.
I  just get a strong impression that is in denial of a lot of things about her son still and that's why she is jumping on the blame Eric bandwagon.

Just as I thought when I heard this book was coming out...of course this women would be in still severe denial. Can't believe I shelled out almost 20$ for this piece of shit. Out of 5? I rate it a 1.5, and that's being generous of all the bullshit she wrote.

Sue, darling...it's not good to live in denial after almost 2 decades. Your "little boy" was as dangerous, and as psychotic as "Crazy/Psychopath" Eric was.

Jenn wrote:

I believe it was the other way around. I believe Dylan was the troubled and mentally ill one who made Eric worse. I believe NBK was Dylan's idea. He wrote about it first in his journal. HE was the one who wanted to die to begin with not Eric.

It is a FACT that Eric copied Dylan with many things. Eric was not the leader. He copied Dylan's taste in music, stickers Dylan had on his car and clothes that Dylan wore. He referred to Dylan as his 'best friend'. Dylan, on the other hand, wanted to go on a shooting spree with Zack Heckler, not Eric. He just settled for Eric because Zack got a girlfriend. Dylan's own Mother said she would not have considered Eric one of Dylan's closest friends. Though Eric thought of Dylan as his 'best friend'.

Like I said in one of the other threads, there is not one shred of proof to support that Eric thought of the idea or was the 'mastermind'. All of Eric's hate websites/behavioral problems came AFTER he was friends with Dylan. Yet Dylan was writing in his journal about killing people and himself.

More proof to back up what I am saying is hints Eric left behind that he wasn't sure he even wanted to go through with this. Saying things along the lines of how it could have possibly been prevented, crying over old friends and 'happier times', Eric actually thinking that his Mother wouldn't miss him if he didn't bond with her anymore. How sad is that? He actually believed if he didn't spend time with his parents in the last few weeks that it would be easier to get over his death?

Dylan though? He didn't care what this was going to do to his parents. He said it's his life and he'll do what he wants with it. He showed no sympathy and no remorse towards his own parents, Eric did.

I could go on and on.

I honestly do not understand how anyone could look at this, with all that we know, and actually believe Eric was this big bad leader who pressured sad, depressed Dylan into doing it. How much more proof do you need to realize that Dylan was the one who came up with the idea first? Dylan was the one who wanted to kill people and wanted to die. That Eric is the one who changed after becoming friends with Dylan.

All of this is overlooked. Why? Because Dylan drew page after page of hearts and whined about how sad and depressed he was and how life wasn't fair and he wanted a girlfriend but couldn't get one. Because he wrote poems and constantly talked of suicide and how he wanted his life to end. Yea, well he also wrote in that same journal that he wanted to kill as many people as he possibly could.

All the blame gets put on Eric because he left behind a hate filled journal that was nothing more than him putting on a show. How he acts on the Basement Tapes and how he acted towards the girl on prom night totally contradict the things he said in his journal.

If 4/20 didn't happen, you know what I believe would have happened? I believe that Eric could have actually went on to have a normal life. I believe Dylan would have killed himself. That's what all of this was about from the get go. It was a mission for Dylan to kill himself and he used Eric to get it.

I don't for a second believe that Eric was how he portrayed himself in his journal. He wanted friends. He wanted people to like him. Look at how easily he went back to being friends with Brooks. Brooks walked up to him and asked him if he wanted to let bygones be bygones and Eric immediately agreed and they resumed their friendship. Does that seem like someone who was filled with hate or does it seem like someone who was desperate to have people like him?

Yes, I know that in the end Eric went through with the massacre and killed innocent children. But from the outside looking in, from my perspective, I believe that Eric followed Dylan's lead and not the other way around. The facts are right there in front of you. Dylan is the one who brought it up first and no matter what anyone says, there's no way to deny that.

If anyone can come up with some real proof that Eric was the leader and the mastermind and that it was his idea, then I'm all ears. And I do not consider Eric's journal, written for an audience, a whole year after Dylan talked about killing people as proof.

Bravo. Exactly.

I appreciate it, I really do, when people take the effort to back up their theoretical statements with quotes from the diaries, class assignments, tapes and other first-hand sources. But what percentage of Eric & Dylan's interactions or their individual ideas do these sources represent? Consider their years of friendship and the hours spent thinking and planning, together and separately. What we read or hear (in the case of the tapes, by proxy) from them is the tiniest of slivers when compared to the whole.

This is why I believe that deciding who came up with an idea cannot be determined by looking to see who wrote it down first. In any case, we all know that the plan did not spring fully formed from either of them. All indications are that the plan developed over months, if not years.

When it comes to trying to understand Dylan, I tend to give more weight to the opinions of those who knew him: his mom, Brooks, Devon, Zach, etc. We don't hear nearly as much from Eric's side of things. Maybe he was harder to know. Given his admission of enjoying lying to people, I don't know if we can take his written or spoken word on anything.

My copy of the book will arrive today.

Blue, I think Eric enjoyed the skill he had developed over a long period of time to lie to people when he had to and get away with it, but he also said explicitly that he lied to" Keep my own ass out of the water."
I've never see any evidence that he lied just to be lying or that he got some kind of thrill out of the act of lying for its own sake.

Hi Paint it Black: You may be right, perhaps "enjoyment" isn't the right description, but he seemed pleased with himself about his ability to lie, at least once. All I'm saying is, how do we know when he is telling the truth?

From Eric's "diary":  

you know what, I feel like telling about lies. I lie a lot. almost constant. and to everybody, just to keep my own ass out of the water. and by the way (side note) I dont think I am doing this for attention, as some people may think. lets see, what are some big lies I have told; "yeah I stopped smoking," "for doing it not for getting caught," "no I'm havent been making more bombs," "no I wouldn't do that," and of course, countless of other ones, and yeah I know that I hate liers and I am one myself, oh fucking well. Its ok If I am a hypocrite, but no one else. because I am higher then you people, no matter what you say if you disagree I would shoot you And I am one racist mother fucker too, fuck the niggers and spics and chinks, unless they are cool, but sometimes they are so fucking retarded they deserve to be ripped on. some people go through life begging to be shot. and white fucks are just the same. if I could nuke the world I would, because so far I hate you all. there are probly around 10 people I wouldnt want to die, but hey, who ever said life is fair should be shot like the others too. - 11/1/98

Jenn wrote:

If 4/20 didn't happen, you know what I believe would have happened? I believe that Eric could have actually went on to have a normal life. I believe Dylan would have killed himself. That's what all of this was about from the get go. It was a mission for Dylan to kill himself and he used Eric to get it.

Jenn, this short quote from what you wrote is totally in synch with the way I see the whole situation myself; your longer treatise from which this quote is taken is one of the most interesting and well reasoned explanations I have seen, bravo!

blue02 wrote:

Hi Paint it Black: You may be right, perhaps "enjoyment" isn't the right description, but he seemed pleased with himself about his ability to lie, at least once. All I'm saying is, how do we know when he is telling the truth?

From Eric's "diary":  

you know what, I feel like telling about lies. I lie a lot. almost constant. and to everybody, just to keep my own ass out of the water. and by the way (side note) I dont think I am doing this for attention, as some people may think. lets see, what are some big lies I have told; "yeah I stopped smoking," "for doing it not for getting caught," "no I'm havent been making more bombs," "no I wouldn't do that," and of course, countless of other ones, and yeah I know that I hate liers and I am one myself, oh fucking well. Its ok If I am a hypocrite, but no one else. because I am higher then you people, no matter what you say if you disagree I would shoot you And I am one racist mother fucker too, fuck the niggers and spics and chinks, unless they are cool, but sometimes they are so fucking retarded they deserve to be ripped on. some people go through life begging to be shot. and white fucks are just the same. if I could nuke the world I would, because so far I hate you all. there are probly around 10 people I wouldnt want to die, but hey, who ever said life is fair should be shot like the others too. - 11/1/98

Blue, I think the only way to do so is to learn everything about Eric and his life that you can and that helps you sort it out because you are coming from a strong base of knowledge. That's what I've done and am fairly confident, that I know what is the truth with Eric and what isn't. At least as much of the truth you can know without being there yourself.

On the note that Eric could have gone on to have a normal life while Dylan could have gone on to commit suicide anyway - I think they both could have gone on to fairly normal lives. Dylan may have committed suicide but maybe not.

I have an older brother near their age who reminds me a lot of Eric when he was in high school. My brother punched a hole in a wall in our house in a fit of anger, he stuck a knife in his door when he was angry once as well, and he grabbed a teammate by his football helmet after a bad play and screamed at him during a game. He lied frequently to stay out of trouble, and was caught stealing. There are other parallels as well. This last year, my brother was featured in a paper, while doing his post doc, at a prestigious university for being part of team of researchers receiving the Nobel Prize in chemistry for an important discovery.

Several friends of mine growing up remind me of Dylan as well, and one committed suicide while another has a family and a career he enjoys.

It's impossible to say what would have happened to them had they not gone through with this because anything is possible.

I'm almost finished with the book. I didn’t expect to learn much in the first place. The people on this forum already know so much about Columbine and there is nothing extraordinary we learned from the book.

But I appreciate the little things, like the fact that Dylan apparently played soccer for a while and that Eric yelled at him because of how bad he was.

The big problem is that Dylan did spent enough time with his parents for them to know him well. And he puts on an act. Imagine if Nate Dykeman or Zach Heckler wrote a book. They would have tons of stories to share from school, to what they did on their free time, what did they talk about etc…

1891 wrote:

The big problem is that Dylan did spent enough time with his parents for them to know him well. And he puts on an act. Imagine if Nate Dykeman or Zach Heckler wrote a book. They would have tons of stories to share from school, to what they did on their free time, what did they talk about etc…

A book from close friends would probably be much more revealing, considering at that age, we tend to spend more time with friends than with family. The chances are probably better we would hear from them than from the Harris family as well.

LPorter - not ignoring your message. I apparently haven't posted enough to respond to messages yet. My brothers lab is associated with the third chemistry nobel prize winners name that you did not mention in your message, but he does not know him directly (that I know of) as his lab is at another university.

switch3650 wrote:

1891 wrote:

The big problem is that Dylan did spent enough time with his parents for them to know him well. And he puts on an act. Imagine if Nate Dykeman or Zach Heckler wrote a book. They would have tons of stories to share from school, to what they did on their free time, what did they talk about etc…

A book from close friends would probably be much more revealing, considering at that age, we tend to spend more time with friends than with family. The chances are probably better we would hear from them than from the Harris family as well.

LPorter - not ignoring your message. I apparently haven't posted enough to respond to messages yet. My brothers lab is associated with the third chemistry nobel prize winners name that you did not mention in your message, but he does not know him directly (that I know of) as his lab is at another university.

Ah, kewl.

I don't understand how anyone can put this book down and say things like "she doesn't think Dylan is a murderer, or is in denial" or "She thinks it's Eric's fault". She refers to Dylan as a Murderer multiple times and constantly says "in no way am I taking the blame off my son". I know PaintItBlack didn't make any of these claims out right, but some people are.

Sure she talks a lot about what a great son he was, I can understand how uncomfortable it can make some people, but you have to accept that people with good qualities can do bad things. In fact I feel like that is the point Sue wants people to take away from this book.

The reason she didn't talk about the toxic effect that Dylan had on Eric was she didn't know Eric before Dylan influenced him. I would have liked to hear her talk about Eric's sadness during the tapes though, and how Dylan showed none (as far as words that I know of).

I liked the book more than I thought I would. I was surprised how she read Dylan's journal entries and went into the actual events of the shooting, I would have never predicted that she would examine the shooting that directly. I read an article about how she didn't probe "deep" enough, she spent hours and hours talking about highly detailed recounts of events of his life, constantly examined his motives, what more do you want?

Are there more photos in the book?

To me it seems SK projects from the heart & head.. she'll roll out the ever so popular Eric/psycho & Dylan/depressed follower lines & then close with taking on the reality that her son was 100% equal to EH in the events of 4/20.

In all fairness she's a mother who knew only of Dylan's other side & she has the backing of most everyone from Dylan's closest friends, law enforcement & mental health professionals backing the version that she obviously would want to believe.

I'll stay with it took two to tango & they certainly had their dance with the devil that day.

ldg1414 wrote:

I don't understand how anyone can put this book down and say things like "she doesn't think Dylan is a murderer, or is in denial" or "She thinks it's Eric's fault". She refers to Dylan as a Murderer multiple times and constantly says "in no way am I taking the blame off my son". I know PaintItBlack didn't make any of these claims out right, but some people are.

Sure she talks a lot about what a great son he was, I can understand how uncomfortable it can make some people, but you have to accept that people with good qualities can do bad things. In fact I feel like that is the point Sue wants people to take away from this book.

The reason she didn't talk about the toxic effect that Dylan had on Eric was she didn't know Eric before Dylan influenced him. I would have liked to hear her talk about Eric's sadness during the tapes though, and how Dylan showed none (as far as words that I know of).

I liked the book more than I thought I would. I was surprised how she read Dylan's journal entries and went into the actual events of the shooting, I would have never predicted that she would examine the shooting that directly. I read an article about how she didn't probe "deep" enough, she spent hours and hours talking about highly detailed recounts of events of his life, constantly examined his motives, what more do you want?

I wasn't putting the book down per se but I am extremely disappointed in it and I only expressed that disappointment. I don't doubt that people with good qualities can do bad things. That's one reason why I'm a Columbiner;because I believe that E &D were good people or had good attributes outside of NBK .I've always seen that.
She has examined the shooting but she also totally  leaves out that Dylan tried to pull Isaiah Shoels out from under the table. She just makes the point that it was Eric who shot him.She  made the claim that Dylan tried to back out of the shootings 4 times that day and Eric went to bring him back into each time.In all my years and research I have never ever heard  or read that before and have no idea where she came up with that.
If anybody knows where that came from , please post it in that thread.She basically says that Dylan was a good boy who was just sad, mentally ill and depressed who was influenced by Eric into doing the shooting while Eric was a  just a crazy  psychopath. This ignore Eric's sadness, depression and hopelessness while ignoring Dylan's intense rage and all the things he wrote about killing people that were in a word  not nice to say the least. I think my objections are valid. If you don't  we simply disagree.

I'm halfway through the book and I'm finding it a very enjoyable read. There is much more about Dylan than I was ever expecting.