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 Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?

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Nirvana92

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PostSubject: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:54 pm

As I'm sure most of you are aware Columbine Video Archive recently uploaded a video to YT that seems to show E/D planting the bombs between 10:58 and 11:00 am. I know there is some debate on whether its actually them or not, but this post will assume that the boys were caught on the cafeteria video.

All the excitement from this find has renewed my interest in the timeline. I stumbled back upon a video featuring Bruce Porter (a pastor/author from Littleton) in which he mentions that Eric planted his bomb right around 11am. Here's a link to the video:

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(Please note that I can't find the date of this interview. I'm assuming by the videos quality it was conducted shortly after the attack.)

I remember the first time I saw this I chalked it up to misinformation during the days right after the attack. At the same time though in light of the new discovery I can't help but get stuck on this detail. The official timeline states the boys arrived at school around 11:10am, and that the bombs were planted around 11:14am. If CVA's video is correct though the boys had arrived and planted the bombs a full ten minutes before then.

Was the time of 11am a rumors heard by Bruce Porter? Did the police say 11am before changing their mind to 11:14am? If that really is the boys on the tape then how the Hell did they miss them?

Between 11:10am and 11:14am is when Eric and Brooks supposedly had their last conversation. Brooks is said to have have seen Eric carrying a duffel bag, though its possible it was ammo/pipes and not the propane tanks. I'm not calling Brooks a liar or nothing, but I do feel this needed to be noted.

In the video above Bruce Porter also mentions the confrontation between Eric and Rachel. The official timeline states the boys started shooting at 11:17am. They opened fire on Richard Castaldo and Rachel Scott, wounding him and killing her before turning their weapons on other students. Right after the attack though Castaldo mentioned that Eric mocked Rachel for her faith, going so far as to pull her off the ground be her hair. This is a detail Castaldo has flip flopped on multiple times over the years. Could this confrontation have purposefully been left out by JeffCo as a way to "shave time" off E/D's movements and explain their own timeline? Did it happen or not?

Some very damning evidence can be found in this Westword article from 2001:

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The official timeline states Gardner arrived around 11:24am and Eric was still outside the building. Gardner and Eric exchanged fire with each other before Eric retreated inside. The real evidence however points to the library windows having been broken out and the boys already being inside when Gardner arrived on scene. Eric actually walked outside the building to fire at Gardner. Gardner had also claimed to have known E/D (as well as their friends) personally, and that they were "always respectful to him". Gardner himself contradicted this by admitting he'd never actually spoken with the boys before the attack (though he had seen them before).

Deputy Smoker claimed to have a gun battle with Eric around 11:26am, but in truth he was still at Clement park during this time. He claims to have fired on Eric after a large cluster of kids ran from the building. The ACTUAL timeline seems to suggest the gun battle didnt happen until 11:37am, and that the kids who ran from the school were coming from the library. The is would imply Smoker was among the police who stood outside as children were murdered in the library.

The police have tried to explain away these discrepancies by saying the library windows could have been broken out before the boys entered the school. The problem with that is not a single library witness mentioned the windows breaking BEFORE the boys entered and started their killing. Patty Nielson didnt mention anything about the windows being broken in her 911 call either. It seems the boys didnt start destroying the building until they had entered.

Its almost as if the whole timeline shifts back and forth between ten minute intervals. They say the boys arrived ten minutes after we can see them on tape. The Gardner and Smoker stories have roughly ten minute interval discrepancies as well. Kind of weird if you ask me.
 
Im sorry if this post is all over the place. Its a bitch typing this all out on mobile lol. These are just a few of the many contradictions and unanswered questions from the official timeline. A lot of them have been discussed to death over the years and supposedly debunked. If that really is E/D on the cafeteria video at 10:59am then it calls everything we know back into question, from Rachel's death to the confrontations with police.

So what do you guys think? Bad police work or total coverup? What discrepancies make you question the official story? And why isn't this getting any real news attention? With all the questionable actions taken by police these days here in the US you'd think this discovery would be a huge deal.


Last edited by Nirvana92 on Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lizpuff
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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:41 pm

IMO it is a bit of both. The bad policework and the covering up. I mean for one....lets take the bags first off. In the official timeline they stated they found the time of the bag placement because there were bags in this location at 11:22 and the bags were NOT there at 11:14. This new info throws that out of the frying pan...If the bag was placed at 11 then it would have been there. So begs the question....were the bags the cops saw the wrong bags and they were mistaken? Or were they covering up? For the bags I tend to think that they made a mistake and altered the time line to fit their version of events.

But on second inspection with all the other stuff you have posted here as well this is pretty damning evidence against Jeffco. I highly doubt the windows were broken out before they entered. NO one mentioned that at all

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:01 pm

I just don't dont understand how (if that is E/D) they missed them on the cafeteria tape. They supposedly had it shipped off to the FIB for clean up and a screen-by-screen analysis. Both of the boys are clearly visible on the tape, and Dylan especially since he's wearing the same shirt they found in his car.

The bomb planting may not even be related to the other discrepancies. The boys probably just dropped them off early to insure they found open tables. Why the 11 minute gap with Smoker though? Why couldn't Gardner keep his story straight? It sounds like there was a shitty response time that they hoped to make up for.

Every sighting and every step the two took that day can be called into question now. Maybe some of those people who saw the boys at school that morning were right?
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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:27 pm

I think Gardner was probably just projecting his later encounter with broken windows onto his first memory of the scene.
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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think Gardner was probably just projecting his later encounter with broken windows onto his first memory of the scene.

That's entirely possible, but it doesnt explain the time discrepancies or why the official timeline says Gardner fired on Eric outside. To quote the article:

"Or maybe the exchange hadn't happened yet. Gardner's debriefing by investigators on the day of the attack is clear on this point. The gunman didn't come out of the building and shoot at him until right after his 11:26 call. That's Marton's recollection, too. The 11:26 call was about the shots Gardner was hearing inside the school, before he'd seen a suspect. At that point, he said, all he knew was that "someone's shooting up the school.""

It says "hearing INSIDE the school" and "the gunman didnt come out of the building", yet were told Eric was already outside when Gardner engaged him. Regardless of the library windows being broken the boys were already inside when police first started arriving.

Maybe its just me, but that little fact alone changes my view of Eric on NBK. Eric fleeing inside after engaging Gardner is much different than him choosing to go outside and confront him.
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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:02 am

Try not to rely on the police's "official report/timeline" anymore. It's been long deemed unreliable and can't be trusted. Alongside any supposed articles with misinformation from the early 2000s. That's all I can say for this for now.

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:12 am

What about the time period after the bomb placement where they went and geared up and went back to school and then begin shooting? Is it entirely off from the supposed official timeline? and are we really talking about Costaldo's fake hair-pulling account again? The boys never did any of that. Weren't the first to be shot were Lance Sean and Danny? Let's not forget the people outside. Anne Marie and her friends?

God I know it's not my imagination there were activities outside for some period of time.

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:14 am

And of course Gardner would cover his ass with embellished accounts. Idk what makes anyone think we can rely on what he remembered that day or the fact he may have flopped that day.
Look, we have the newly discovered footage of the boys by our own people to help clear this up a little bit so, that's a bit of help from the heavens right there or something. Let's use that instead as another justification that Jeffco's timeline is fabricated. If even Brian and Randy who went and had meetings with the police after 4/20 in person says the same then it's no doubt about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:48 am

I hope we understand that the new footage findings may alter the timeline of the start of the rampage. Please correct me from what I understand, bomb bags were placed first, boys left and geared up, came back and outside shooting begins, yes? So what's all the confusion with Gardner and broken windows here? The higher-ups released timeline can't be depended on, neither do flip flop accounts or articles!
Please include the shootings of Lance, Sean and Danny + Anne Marie if we're focusing on the activities outside.

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:22 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
I hope we understand that the new footage findings may alter the timeline of the start of the rampage. Please correct me from what I understand, bomb bags were placed first, boys left and geared up, came back and outside shooting begins, yes? So what's all the confusion with Gardner and broken windows here? The higher-ups released timeline can't be depended on, neither do flip flop accounts or articles!
Please include the shootings of Lance, Sean and Danny + Anne Marie if we're focusing on the activities outside.

Like I said I'm not necessarily trying to make a connection between the bombs being planted and everything else. The new CVA's video just has me questioning the whole event right now. No offense to CVA or anything, but there's no excuse for trained FBI specialists with fancy equipment to miss something that an amateur sleuth can find via a grainy YouTube video.

As for the Rachel stuff I'm definitely not saying it happened. If it DID happen though then it seems like something JeffCo would be willing to "shave off" to fit their timeline. Lets say it takes Eric 30 seconds to taunt Rachel. That's 30 seconds they could claim Eric was doing something else. It may not seem significant, but shaving little moments like that off would help them explain their own timeframe better.

I guess what I'm most interested in knowing is how many little things were reported by multiple witnesses that go against the polices timeline. At the moment I'm not capable of typing out an even longer post, but soon I'm gonna start picking through the 11k and paste together an "alternate timeline". Its not just about the police or a cover up either. I'm genuinely interested in E/Ds movements that day, especially in light of the new info. Planting the bombs 17 minutes a head of schedule gave them plenty of time to move around campus and interact with students.

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:29 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Like I said I'm not necessarily trying to make a connection between the bombs being planted and everything else. The new CVA's video just has me questioning the whole event right now. No offense to CVA or anything, but there's no excuse for trained FBI specialists with fancy equipment to miss something that an amateur sleuth can find via a grainy YouTube video.

It's no excuse but it's possible. As lizpuff said above, they might've confused bags at a later timing for bags that Eric and Dylan placed when it is not. I'm looking forward to your alternate timeline then, because it also irritates me to look up info that will derive from Jeffco's embellished one anyway and it wouldn't fit what really happened. I am pretty sure many people lied about that day to fit the timeline or to make themselves look good.
I even wouldn't hold Brooks' accountable. His one supposed convo might have changed everything.

"Planting the bombs 17 minutes a head of schedule gave them plenty of time to move around campus and interact with students."
Wouldn't that be the period they geared up and drove around town before heading to school?

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:53 am

According to their plans they would leave for Clement after planting the bombs to gear up. Consider the timing though: If they planted them at 11:14am then they had just enough time to walk to their cars, grab their gear, and begin shooting. If that really is them on the tape then they had to walk outside, get in their cars and drive to the park, gear up, drive back, then start shooting. There's much more opportunity for them to have been seen or to interact with students.

IMO Eric and Brooks interaction makes more sense if the bombs had already been planted. He must have seen Eric once he returned from gearing up at the park, which would mean the bag he saw was ammo and not a bomb. I've always had trouble believing E/D would only allow themselves 3 minutes to plant those bombs. There's also numerous witnesses who claimed to have seen them there at school or driving around town on the morning of 4/20. Using a "concrete moment" like them dropping the bombs off at 10:59am may allow us to weed through those statements and piece them together. Just being able to place them in the cafeteria at that time gives us a huge boost in tracking their movements, at least in those few minutes before the attack started.
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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:26 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If that really is them on the tape then they had to walk outside, get in their cars and drive to the park, gear up, drive back, then start shooting. There's much more opportunity for them to have been seen or to interact with students.

IMO Eric and Brooks interaction makes more sense if the bombs had already been planted. He must have seen Eric once he returned from gearing up at the park, which would mean the bag he saw was ammo and not a bomb. I've always had trouble believing E/D would only allow themselves 3 minutes to plant those bombs. There's also numerous witnesses who claimed to have seen them there at school or driving around town on the morning of 4/20. Using a "concrete moment" like them dropping the bombs off at 10:59am may allow us to weed through those statements and piece them together. Just being able to place them in the cafeteria at that time gives us a huge boost in tracking their movements, at least in those few minutes before the attack started.
Sounds legit to me so far babe.

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:29 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
According to their plans they would leave for Clement after planting the bombs to gear up. Consider the timing though: If they planted them at 11:14am then they had just enough time to walk to their cars, grab their gear, and begin shooting. If that really is them on the tape then they had to walk outside, get in their cars and drive to the park, gear up, drive back, then start shooting. There's much more opportunity for them to have been seen or to interact with students.

IMO Eric and Brooks interaction makes more sense if the bombs had already been planted. He must have seen Eric once he returned from gearing up at the park, which would mean the bag he saw was ammo and not a bomb. I've always had trouble believing E/D would only allow themselves 3 minutes to plant those bombs. There's also numerous witnesses who claimed to have seen them there at school or driving around town on the morning of 4/20. Using a "concrete moment" like them dropping the bombs off at 10:59am may allow us to weed through those statements and piece them together. Just being able to place them in the cafeteria at that time gives us a huge boost in tracking their movements, at least in those few minutes before the attack started.

I agree about Brooks. He saw the ammo bag not the bombs. People like to doubt him but I believe him as his story hasn't changed. I did read thru the entire 11k. The outside witness section is early on and my memory is fuzzy but I can certainly help to go thru and look at witness accounts.
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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:45 am

Yes Brooks saw AMMO bags not bomb bags. Eric had an ammo purse

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:49 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
Yes Brooks saw AMMO bags not bomb bags. Eric had an ammo purse

Well they also had Ammo bags. They had backpacks and at least one duffle bag with ammo and other items in them.
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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:54 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Well they also had Ammo bags. They had backpacks and at least one duffle bag with ammo and other items in them.
I was kidding about the ammo purse sweetie hahah

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PostSubject: Re: Did the police alter the "official" timeline of the attack?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:00 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Well they also had Ammo bags. They had backpacks and at least one duffle bag with ammo and other items in them.
I was kidding about the ammo purse sweetie hahah

Oh I misread then hahaha. Very Happy
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