The small questions thread

JayJay wrote:

@Marco1211: I don't know myself, maybe someone else will have an answer for you, but my impression? It's that the basement was sort of a no-go place for the parents. It does seem like both parents, the dad at least, was in some denial, not wanting to see what was going on. He took some pipe bomb device but nothing else, apparently didn't search the whole room after that episode. ''Let's make sure he studies and sleeps and gets home by 6pm and get things done but, otherwise, we'll let him do whatever else he wants in his basement.'', may have been the logic behind it. It's not unique to them: many parents would not believe their kids capable of planning something like a shooting and would rather cut a teenage boy under pressure some slack...as long as he seems to behave.

For some reason, the mother said to police coming in on 4/20: ''don't go down there''. She may have been afraid of something being discovered or exploding, or, not believing her son was involved at that point, did not want the basement to be searched and turned around because what would Eric think when he got home later during the day?!? Who knows what she thought.

She did make sure she fed ''the monster down in his cave'' with slimjims and candies. Don't wake up the monster, less he devours you!

Yeah, I suspected so. Do we know if the parents went down to Eric's room before rhe cops there?

Does anybody know anything more specific about if Littleton had a curfew and what the rules of the curfew were? In Rachel's tears, pg(62) her father says: "Rachel had been out late one night and was cited for breaking the Littleton curfew, so I had to take her downtown to pay a fine. She hadn't done anything wrong, but the city is strict about its curfew, and she violated it."

I wonder how Eric and Dylan managed to avoid been issued a curfew fine when they were out at all hours doing their missions?

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Does anybody know anything more specific about if Littleton had a curfew and what the rules of the curfew were? In Rachel's tears, pg(62) her father says: "Rachel had been out late one night and was cited for breaking the Littleton curfew, so I had to take her downtown to pay a fine. She hadn't done anything wrong, but the city is strict about its curfew, and she violated it."

I wonder how Eric and Dylan managed to avoid been issued a curfew fine when they were out at all hours doing their missions?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ah that's great thank you. So the curfew was from 11 p.m - 5 a.m for 17's and under. I always thought, surely if there was some kind of curfew then Eric and Dylan were constantly breaking it. Seems so unfair that Rachel had to pay a fine for breaking the curfew yet Eric and Dylan received no punishment for breaking the same curfew with their missions.

queenfarooq wrote:

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Does anybody know anything more specific about if Littleton had a curfew and what the rules of the curfew were? In Rachel's tears, pg(62) her father says: "Rachel had been out late one night and was cited for breaking the Littleton curfew, so I had to take her downtown to pay a fine. She hadn't done anything wrong, but the city is strict about its curfew, and she violated it."

I wonder how Eric and Dylan managed to avoid been issued a curfew fine when they were out at all hours doing their missions?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ah that's great thank you. So the curfew was from 11 p.m - 5 a.m for 17's and under. I always thought, surely if there was some kind of curfew then Eric and Dylan were constantly breaking it. Seems so unfair that Rachel had to pay a fine for breaking the curfew yet Eric and Dylan received no punishment for breaking the same curfew with their missions.

And here is another link to a little bit more info on that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And I think the boys didn't have to pay a fine because they didn't get caught by police, did they? Usually the fine only applies to you if the police catch you out after curfew.

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Does anybody know anything more specific about if Littleton had a curfew and what the rules of the curfew were? In Rachel's tears, pg(62) her father says: "Rachel had been out late one night and was cited for breaking the Littleton curfew, so I had to take her downtown to pay a fine. She hadn't done anything wrong, but the city is strict about its curfew, and she violated it."

I wonder how Eric and Dylan managed to avoid been issued a curfew fine when they were out at all hours doing their missions?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ah that's great thank you. So the curfew was from 11 p.m - 5 a.m for 17's and under. I always thought, surely if there was some kind of curfew then Eric and Dylan were constantly breaking it. Seems so unfair that Rachel had to pay a fine for breaking the curfew yet Eric and Dylan received no punishment for breaking the same curfew with their missions.

And here is another link to a little bit more info on that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And I think the boys didn't have to pay a fine because they didn't get caught by police, did they? Usually the fine only applies to you if the police catch out after curfew.

Yeah sorry, that's what I meant, that Eric and Dylan didn't get caught for the multiple times they broke the curfew. It just seems so ridiculous that Rachel got caught and they did not.

queenfarooq wrote:

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Does anybody know anything more specific about if Littleton had a curfew and what the rules of the curfew were? In Rachel's tears, pg(62) her father says: "Rachel had been out late one night and was cited for breaking the Littleton curfew, so I had to take her downtown to pay a fine. She hadn't done anything wrong, but the city is strict about its curfew, and she violated it."

I wonder how Eric and Dylan managed to avoid been issued a curfew fine when they were out at all hours doing their missions?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ah that's great thank you. So the curfew was from 11 p.m - 5 a.m for 17's and under. I always thought, surely if there was some kind of curfew then Eric and Dylan were constantly breaking it. Seems so unfair that Rachel had to pay a fine for breaking the curfew yet Eric and Dylan received no punishment for breaking the same curfew with their missions.

And here is another link to a little bit more info on that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And I think the boys didn't have to pay a fine because they didn't get caught by police, did they? Usually the fine only applies to you if the police catch out after curfew.

Yeah sorry, that's what I meant, that Eric and Dylan didn't get caught for the multiple times they broke the curfew. It just seems so ridiculous that Rachel got caught and they did not.  

Probably because they were dressed in all black and being sneaky; hiding and shit so that they wouldn't get caught. If Dylan would have worn that bright ass Hawaiian shirt, I bet the would have been busted. 

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Does anybody know anything more specific about if Littleton had a curfew and what the rules of the curfew were? In Rachel's tears, pg(62) her father says: "Rachel had been out late one night and was cited for breaking the Littleton curfew, so I had to take her downtown to pay a fine. She hadn't done anything wrong, but the city is strict about its curfew, and she violated it."

I wonder how Eric and Dylan managed to avoid been issued a curfew fine when they were out at all hours doing their missions?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ah that's great thank you. So the curfew was from 11 p.m - 5 a.m for 17's and under. I always thought, surely if there was some kind of curfew then Eric and Dylan were constantly breaking it. Seems so unfair that Rachel had to pay a fine for breaking the curfew yet Eric and Dylan received no punishment for breaking the same curfew with their missions.

And here is another link to a little bit more info on that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And I think the boys didn't have to pay a fine because they didn't get caught by police, did they? Usually the fine only applies to you if the police catch out after curfew.

Yeah sorry, that's what I meant, that Eric and Dylan didn't get caught for the multiple times they broke the curfew. It just seems so ridiculous that Rachel got caught and they did not.  

Probably because they were dressed in all black and being sneaky; hiding and shit so that they wouldn't get caught. If Dylan would have worn that bright ass Hawaiian shirt, I bet the would have been busted. 

 
It's probably a good job Dylan didn't wear the Hawaiian shirt for the missions, that we know of....  

queenfarooq wrote:

Jenn wrote:

queenfarooq wrote:

Does anybody know anything more specific about if Littleton had a curfew and what the rules of the curfew were? In Rachel's tears, pg(62) her father says: "Rachel had been out late one night and was cited for breaking the Littleton curfew, so I had to take her downtown to pay a fine. She hadn't done anything wrong, but the city is strict about its curfew, and she violated it."

I wonder how Eric and Dylan managed to avoid been issued a curfew fine when they were out at all hours doing their missions?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ah that's great thank you. So the curfew was from 11 p.m - 5 a.m for 17's and under. I always thought, surely if there was some kind of curfew then Eric and Dylan were constantly breaking it. Seems so unfair that Rachel had to pay a fine for breaking the curfew yet Eric and Dylan received no punishment for breaking the same curfew with their missions.

Wow. I never heard of such a thing as a curfew except in war zones. In a suburb? Sounds like a police state, or Panem in Hunger Games. It sounds extremely discriminatory to teenagers, too. And it did not prevent E & D from doing ''rebel missions'' before 11pm...

I was reading about the crosses originally put up for Eric and Dylan after the shooting. The comments on their crosses were very telling with Dylan having "Why?" "I'm sorry we failed you" and Eric's having "How can we ever forgive you?". What did you guys think about that?

Marco1211 wrote:

I was reading about the crosses originally put up for Eric and Dylan after the shooting. The comments on their crosses were very telling with Dylan having "Why?" "I'm sorry we failed you" and Eric's having "How can we ever forgive you?". What did you guys think about that?

That it is fucked up that their crosses got torn down and chopped up.

On SBB there was a guy who said he was a coworker of Eric and Dylan. I don't remember his name, but I think he said something about them listening to Tool and being harassed by school bullies at work. Did anyone confirm if he was real?

maninthebox wrote:

On SBB there was a guy who said he was a coworker of Eric and Dylan. I don't remember his name, but I think he said something about them listening to Tool and being harassed by school bullies at work. Did anyone confirm if he was real?

It hasn't been entirely confirmed to my knowledge, but I personally believe it was him. Jason Secor is his name, and his username was Venturo. A good while before scmrpg/sbb closed, let alone reopened as an archive, I copied and saved that thread and then posted it [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

He seems genuine to me too. Thanks!

maninthebox wrote:

He seems genuine to me too. Thanks!

You're very welcome.

I'm adding some audio links to the thread right now. Be sure to check the thread to listen to them.

tfsa47090 wrote:

maninthebox wrote:

He seems genuine to me too. Thanks!

You're very welcome.

I'm adding some audio links to the thread right now. Be sure to check the thread to listen to them.

Audio links? Spiffy!

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

tfsa47090 wrote:

maninthebox wrote:

He seems genuine to me too. Thanks!

You're very welcome.

I'm adding some audio links to the thread right now. Be sure to check the thread to listen to them.

Audio links?  Spiffy!

Yes! These were sent to me, and someone must have cut up pieces and uploaded them from the following:

Jefferson County 911 and dispatch audio on a two CD-ROM set
Released Aug. 7, 2000

It seems there was no requirement at all from authorities to have a class on how to handle a gun, at the time Eric and Dylan bought their arms, is that right?

For people familiar with guns, how do you think they handle their guns when you watch the Rampage Range video? Regardless of the ultimate goal of them getting guns, would they have benefited from taking a class on how to handle a gun? What about shooting, do they shoot somewhat well at all?

Also, does someone know how much pressure Eric's shotgun (pump gun?) recoil give on the shoulder? It seems pretty rough to sustain (not that I pity him AT ALL).

I enjoy shooting handguns and shotguns. The thing to understand is most gun owners shutter when they see the videos of E & D shooting. The shotguns would have been extremely hard to shoot accurately but lucky for E & D you don't have to be very accurate with the way the cut off the barrel. And really I don't think that this was a big concern of theirs. The bombs were supposed to be the bigger weapons.

The shot of dylan shooting his tec 9 one handed makes me roll my eyes. Its the 'gangsta' and its not very effective.

I will say that they look to be using much better form in the cafeteria footage so maybe they got it out of their system before NBK.

JayJay wrote:

It seems there was no requirement at all from authorities to have a class on how to handle a gun, at the time Eric and Dylan bought their arms, is that right?

For people familiar with guns, how do you think they handle their guns when you watch the Rampage Range video? Regardless of the ultimate goal of them getting guns, would they have benefited from taking a class on how to handle a gun? What about shooting, do they shoot somewhat well at all?

Also, does someone know how much pressure Eric's shotgun (pump gun?) recoil give on the shoulder? It seems pretty rough to sustain (not that I pity him AT ALL).

Well of course cutting the stock off a shotgun is not intended as it was designed with one to specifically absorb the shock of recoil from firing the weapon. I don't know why they had purchased cut down weapons, they had no intention of needing to conceal them. Which is the only reason that you would modify a shotgun in such a way. Perhaps it was easier to carry in addition to another weapon, or because it was "straight outta doom". Or the fact that they were not that good at shooting. In my mind it would make more sense to use an intact shotgun.

Either way they were rather ineffective at using the shotguns. Watching Eric's arms flail about when he's firing the shot gun is pretty amusing, it was too much for him. Which was proven when he busted his nose in the library.

Mr_Chagrin wrote:

I don't know why they had purchased cut down weapons, they had no intention of needing to conceal them.  

They sawed off the shotguns themselves. They carried them around at other times than NBK.

Z_Splatter wrote:

I enjoy shooting handguns and shotguns. The thing to understand is most gun owners shutter when they see the videos of E & D shooting. The shotguns would have been extremely hard to shoot accurately but lucky for E & D you don't have to be very accurate with the way the cut off the barrel. And really I don't think that this was a big concern of theirs. The bombs were supposed to be the bigger weapons.

The shot of dylan shooting his tec 9 one handed makes me roll my eyes. Its the 'gangsta' and its not very effective.

I will say that they look to be using much better form in the cafeteria footage so maybe they got it out of their system before NBK.

Mmm, I suppose you don't have to be accurate when you're just shooting randomly at people. And the bombs was the primary plan, yes.

I wonder if they had much practice outside Rampage Range. They seem to have had that, if you say they hold their guns better in the cafeteria.

Does anyone know if it is documented anywhere as to what happened with the library books? Were they just moved to the new library? Specifically, there were quite a number of books that were splattered with blood, particularly by Eric's suicide. Is there any written as to what was done with them, etc? Just a small question that crossed my mind today...

Good question! I never thought about that. I don't know the answer but would love to hear if anyone has found anything.

I would guess that the books that weren't damaged by blood would have been recycled into another library or the new Columbine library.
The books that were splattered with blood would maybe have been in evidence vaults, but I don't know if I recall seeing any of that in the official reports. I can only imagine what some obsessed collector would pay for one of the books behind Eric's head that got covered in blood!

I was actually asked this some months ago through anonymous message elsewhere: "Okay, obviously some of Eric's blood HAD to have splattered on the books. And obviously thats all gone now. But do you ever wonder- what if some of the books that were further away had microscopic shit on them & didn't get thrown away and theres fucking books in the world with Eric's blood on it?!"


And this was my reply back then, using little more than common sense because I don't think it was ever said what happened to the books:

Yeah, I agree that there is no scenario possible in which his blood/brains didn’t make it onto the books somehow. It’s obvious that they threw away all of those books visibly affected by this. The boys killed themselves in what seems to be a corner of the library, as far as I can see on the diagram, where there were fewer bookcases and more tables/chairs. That makes the chance of books with Eric’s blood on them ‘surviving’ the purge a lot slimmer. JeffCo’s timeline also suggests that Eric did something with the bookshelves, possibly even going as far as to shoot at them, so there was probably a lot of damage done to the books outside of the obvious. The clean-up would’ve had to be very meticulous. I don’t think they would’ve wanted to take any chances — it is likelier that they threw more than half of the library into the trash, even if the risk of an object being contaminated by human matter was very small.

If any of the books from that day somehow made it through the clean-up, I think it’d be most likely that they were put in the new library at Columbine again. However, I suspect that many of them would’ve been removed since due to ordinary things like outdated information or outdated publication etc. The chances of there still being books in the world with Eric’s blood on them are very, very small. (Unless you get excited about the possibility of recycling, Anon.. I’m sorry to burst your bubble.)

Imagine the look on someones face if they opened a book and a little piece of Eric's brain happened to be overlooked in the big clean-up...  

We have Eric's day planner from 98-99 and Dylan's day planner from 97-98. Do we have Dylan's day planner from 98-99? I was looking through the 936-pages of Writings from the 11k and cannot find it.

JayJay wrote:

We have Eric's day planner from 98-99 and Dylan's day planner from 97-98. Do we have Dylan's day planner from 98-99? I was looking through the 936-pages of Writings from the 11k and cannot find it.

I don't think so. too bad, right?

tragedy79 wrote:

JayJay wrote:

We have Eric's day planner from 98-99 and Dylan's day planner from 97-98. Do we have Dylan's day planner from 98-99? I was looking through the 936-pages of Writings from the 11k and cannot find it.

I don't think so. too bad, right?

Yes, that's too bad. Maybe there was nothing relating to the planning in it? Only lyrics to songs? Longings for True love? But that seems surprising to me. And even more surprising they would not include Eric's day planner for 97-98.

Didn't Dylan use Eric's planner to write down NBK-related things in 98-99? Might just be he didn't really use the planner much outside of what it was meant for in the first place or something, although it is a little peculiar they'd include the one from a previous year..   Is this one of those things where JeffCo suffered from selective 'hearing' again? Wouldn't put it past them to have missed a few scraps of seemingly unimportant things that might speak volumes about something important..

thedragonrampant wrote:

Didn't Dylan use Eric's planner to write down NBK-related things in 98-99? Might just be he didn't really use the planner much outside of what it was meant for in the first place or something, although it is a little peculiar they'd include the one from a previous year..   Is this one of those things where JeffCo suffered from selective 'hearing' again? Wouldn't put it past them to have missed a few scraps of seemingly unimportant things that might speak volumes about something important..

Dylan did use Eric's planner to jot down NBK notes. He made one of his most interesting notes, imo, in Eric's planner, when he wrote a list of things to get/do for NBK and then wrote: "Death (Afraid?)" right next to the list.

I think this offers good insight into Dylan's personality. He's compartmentalizing tasks, including the most onerous and urgent task of all: facing personal mortality, as though he's just jotting down the usual casual notes someone would normally write in their day-planner. Also that he's using Eric's day-planner reinforces the idea that the two boys were as committed to erasing (losing) their individual personalities through one another as they were in following through with NBK.

Does anyone know how much Dylan grew between 8th grade and senior year? His height has always fascinated me as I've met very few people taller than 6 feet. Maybe it's more common among Americans, but where I'm from, it's really rare.

I can't remember, are there videos/stills of them on the 20/4 in their trenchcoats?

maninthebox wrote:

I can't remember, are there videos/stills of them on the 20/4 in their trenchcoats?

I honestly don't think so. If there are, they haven't been released to the public, to my knowledge.

tfsa47090 wrote:

maninthebox wrote:

I can't remember, are there videos/stills of them on the 20/4 in their trenchcoats?

I honestly don't think so. If there are, they haven't been released to the public, to my knowledge.

Thanks. I wonder if Dylan held his arms like this too lol
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

What is the post mortem drying artifact found on the balls of Dylan?

Is there any discernable reason to believe Jeffco is hiding entries in their journals? It just seems odd, the amount of time between entries and the one-track mindset it all seemed to have.

Who's this person? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I've tried finding his/her name but couldn't

maninthebox wrote:

Who's this person? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I've tried finding his/her name but couldn't

Difficult to find out who it is because the original poster deleted all his or her comments in the thread.

Also, comment on top by another poster is about a girl who was reportedly spared by Eric and Dylan because ''her twin sister was always nice to the shooters''. Apparently both guys came up to her and one said ''she's cool'' (the way Dylan did with John Savage). Can't think of who it might be right now. It's a second-hand story told on an anonymous website so, who knows if it's true.

JayJay wrote:

maninthebox wrote:

Who's this person? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I've tried finding his/her name but couldn't

Difficult to find out who it is because the original poster deleted all his or her comments in the thread.

I was hoping someone might remember who it was and that it was someone quite close to E&D   

Quote :

Also, comment on top by another poster is about a girl who was reportedly spared by Eric and Dylan because ''her twin sister was always nice to the shooters''. Apparently both guys came up to her and one said ''she's cool'' (the way Dylan did with John Savage). Can't think of who it might be right now. It's a second-hand story told on an anonymous website so, who knows if it's true.

Seems like it's the kind of story that would have been well-known, I don't remember reading about it in other places either

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

What is the post mortem drying artifact found on the balls of Dylan?

Are you referring to Dylan's autopsy report?

ThoughtBox wrote:

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

What is the post mortem drying artifact found on the balls of Dylan?

Are you referring to Dylan's autopsy report?

I assumed the question was referring to Dylan's autopsy also.
As a body becomes dehydrated after death you can end up with discolored areas on the body (kind of like a bruise) which is due to this drying out process. Usually artifact could refer to something man made or maybe even blood etc, but i think in the case of Dylan this was perhaps not the case. I think 'artifact' in this instance refers to a natural postmortem occurrence or drying of the tissue rather than any other kind of substance been found in that area of his body.

If anyone is really interested: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :

It is not uncommon to see a dark red to black appearance to the lips and the tip of the tongue protruding through the clinched incisors. This discoloration is due to a drying of these structures. In males you often see the skin of the scrotum taking on a dark red color, which is also due to drying artifact.

pg(12 - 13)

Postmortem drying artifact was also found on Eric's right upper back and on Danny R's body.

Thanks queenfarooq you are, as always, a fount of knowledge. I had always wondered about this question but never wanted to ask. Lol. At least radioactive_clothing had the balls to ask. (Very bad pun intended).

Thanks queenfarooq you are, as always, a fount of knowledge. I had always wondered about this question but never wanted to ask. Lol. At least radioactive_clothing had the balls to ask. (Very bad pun intended).

ThoughtBox wrote:

Thanks queenfarooq you are, as always, a fount of knowledge. I had always wondered about this question but never wanted to ask. Lol.  At least radioactive_clothing had the balls to ask. (Very bad pun intended).

Haha, that's OK and thank you. Usually if one person is wondering about something there'll be other people also wondering the same thing, so someone may as well ask.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. Thank you.

Does anyone know where I could find the so called 'autopsy diagrams' that Randy Brown supposedly gave Calence (the guy who runs dylanklebold.com)?

Calence had them on his website at some point but I cant find them there anymore.

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

Does anyone know where I could find the so called 'autopsy diagrams' that Randy Brown supposedly gave Calence (the guy who runs dylanklebold.com)?

Calence had them on his website at some point but I cant find them there anymore.

Hm. I vaguely recall seeing those. Calence sold dylanklebold.com a couple of months ago and he hadn't update anything on his site in quite a while.

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

Hm. I vaguely recall seeing those.   Calence sold dylanklebold.com a couple of months ago and he hadn't update anything on his site in quite a while.

Do you have a way I can contact him? He may be able to provide me with said documents.